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So are we actually going to see any meaningful action taken to stop the hacking?


DarthFamine

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"So are we actually going to see any meaningful action taken to stop the hacking"

 

Is banning someone meaningful? Is breaking the speedhack from a year ago (which the vid dates show Bioware have done) meaningful action? Perhaps you'd be satisfied with Bioware launching a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Gingers' house? Sadly the UN may object - after the event - if they tried the latter.

 

What evidence there is, shows hacking isn't a great problem. Which is rather the point.

 

Look, I'm a bit irritted, but trying not to be abrasive as I don't really want to have a go at you. I'm just trying to point out that cheating isn't as widespread as a section of players seem to think (and reinforce that belief by telling each other it is). You really seemed to think that Youtube was full of videos showing the game was riddled with cheating - it isn't, as our exchange has shown.

 

I enjoy the game, and PvP, and I really would like more people to enjoy it too. That's why I'm going on trying to show that PvP ISN'T ruined by rampant cheating (it might be ruined by rampant Smashing, or expertise, or gear, or nerfs to Crit, or even teams of stunlocking ops, but that's another matter and probably just down to opinion).

 

If you go back and try PvP with an open mind, accept that lag happens, the game's a bit buggy, sometimes you're simply outmatched, and there are an awful lot of abilites to keep track of so not everything is cheating - then you might find you're enjoying yourself. Which would be a Good Thing, from everyone's point of view.

 

I also enjoy pvp, but every time I pvp on POTF I run into at least one warzone where someone is hacking. When I say hacking I don’t mean lag or any other form of it that could maybe be mistaken for “lag". I'm talking full on speed hacking from one side of the map to the other. It's hard to enjoy pvp when stuff like that is happening on a daily basis and judging by how many threads that have been created discussing the issue it seems like it is actually a great problem that needs to be addressed.

 

As for the YouTube argument, YouTube is a valid source of video proof, but your right there is not a ton of videos, however there are still a few videos that actually capture hacking in progress. I was just hoping that would hush the people asking for video proof.

 

I don't get why some people choose to turn the other cheek on this issue. It is affecting people’s gameplay in a negative manner and it is not an issue that should be shoved under the rug. Judging by all of the threads there are about it this is widespread issue.

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As you claim to much on a public forum, if you have proof then please show us but until that day comes you are wasting your breath i am afraid. How is anyone supposed to believe you when all they have to go on is a forum post? You need to be realistic here mate

 

your just in denial, your say these claims of hacking are false just to cover your own butt. becouse you know your guilty

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Oh, the rampant hacking that I've never seen in soon to be 600 valor levels and across three servers again. Here I've been blaming the piss poor balancing and matchmking system for to some degree ruining my experience when it has been the hacks all along.

 

Or maybe I'm just immune from too much Halo 2 :) Now those were hacks.

 

Hacks are like the UFO's of Swtor. There's a decent camera on every smarthphone these days yet all we get are blurry pictures of something in the sky. It's like every UFO hunter out there is running around with grandpa's camera from 1963....or perhaps UFO's are blurry by nature. Same applies to hacks, tons of people are streaming and capping but no one can present unquestionable proof.

Edited by MidichIorian
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Oh, the rampant hacking that I've never seen in soon to be 600 valor levels and across three servers again. Here I've been blaming the piss poor balancing and matchmking system for to some degree ruining my experience when it has been the hacks all along.

 

Or maybe I'm just immune from too much Halo 2 :) Now those were hacks.

 

Yeah COD MW2 was the only thing in recent memory that topped Halo 2. Still gives me the shakes...

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your just in denial, your say these claims of hacking are false just to cover your own butt. becouse you know your guilty

 

Phenomenal argumentation. Absolutely irrefutable. Someone disagrees with your position? CLEARLY A CHEATER! And this ridiculous (and offensive) stance even has backers. Jediharrsion, if someone accused you of cheating and you denied it, would you then employ this argument to implicate yourself?

 

I only came back to the game recently and haven't done a lot of 50s PvP since my return, but I can say pretty unequivocally that lowbie PvP on Harbinger is hardly riddled with hacks. Unless the occasional lag-spikes are being caused by cheaters, in which case let's get 'em. Is this a PvP Server-only problem? Apologies if this is meant to refer to 50s or PvP-server WZs only, but the only problems I run into--and I'm far, far from leet and set my achievement bar pretty low--are players who don't even try using CC to guard caps and node-campers. Well, that and DPSers who swing less than 60k total damage in semi-balanced and combat-heavy WZs, which I think is impossible. Maybe they're cheating? Double-agents or traitors, for example. Because you can't possibly be using even a few of your abilities and be that ineffective, can you?

Edited by FromAbove
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Phenomenal argumentation. Absolutely irrefutable. Someone disagrees with your position? CLEARLY A CHEATER! And this ridiculous (and offensive) stance even has backers. Jediharrsion, if someone accused you of cheating and you denied it, would you then employ this argument to implicate yourself?

 

I only came back to the game recently and haven't done a lot of 50s PvP since my return, but I can say pretty unequivocally that lowbie PvP on Harbinger is hardly riddled with hacks. Unless the occasional lag-spikes are being caused by cheaters, in which case let's get 'em. Is this a PvP Server-only problem? Apologies if this is meant to refer to 50s or PvP-server WZs only, but the only problems I run into--and I'm far, far from leet and set my achievement bar pretty low--are players who don't even try using CC to guard caps and node-campers. Well, that and DPSers who swing less than 60k total damage in semi-balanced and combat-heavy WZs, which I think is impossible. Maybe they're cheating? Double-agents or traitors, for example. Because you can't possibly be using even a few of your abilities and be that ineffective, can you?

 

Excuse me but why are you nameing me in your post? i'm guessing from what i just finished reading that your on the harbinger server?

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Excuse me but why are you nameing me in your post? i'm guessing from what i just finished reading that your on the harbinger server?

 

Because I was quoting your post, which takes the stance that to disagree with accusations of hacking is to be guilty of hacking.

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Anyway, 22 vids for "SWTOR hacks PvP" again, this time in the last month.

 

8 x Minecraft vids (eh?)

2 x advertising

1 x some other game trailer (Wolfire)

6 x game vids (4 x SWTOR PvP fight vids; 1 x French guild take Ilum World Boss; 1 x Corellia PvP event)

4 x people calling lag or bugs hacks (my favourite is complaining that Physics on Shadowlands are hacking in huttball - 10 mins so didn't watch it all, maybe they were - but I suspect not. They're a recognised good PvP guild and don't need hacks to smash randoms in huttball)

1 x advert for hacks - in some game called "Shakes & Fidget"

 

So no, still no evidence. Seriously, you would feel happier if you let go of the prejudice that PvP is full of hacking. Don't get locked into identifying yourself with a "cause" that's based on misperception, as it seems some have let themselves be. But in the meantime, Youtube doesn't show evidence of widespread hacking in SWTOR.

 

Thanks for doing this.

 

So after all, still no evidence of widespread hacking.

 

Moving on, nothing to see here.

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Someone posted a video of a player zooming around a warzone at way-passed-Predation-and-Force-Speed speed. I've only seen that once in a WZ in a Huttball match where suddenly they went from mid to the end zone in one GCD. And, no, it was not an Intercede, followed by a leap, followed my a force push, followed by a leap. I know how the game works. It was not any of combination of those abilities. But I've only seen that once and I've been playing since Day One.

 

What I have seen TWICE, and only twice, is non-stealth classes disappearing and then re-appearing a short distance away. No, it wasn't lag. I had them targeted and they disappeared and then I no longer had them targeted. The first time I was on voice chat with a guildie and we were wailing on the same non-stealth player who was about to die and he disappeared from view and our current target on both of our screens and then conveniently reappeared and was healing himself. The second time was almost identical circumstances, except that the player disappeared as he was approaching the node and then miraculously reappeared to stop the cap. We were positioned between the node and him which was out of LOS and he disappeared, moved past us around the corner and then stopped the cap. I reported both players. I can't remember the name of the second guy but I have not seen the first guy in WZs since.

 

I have also experienced conveniently-timed lag (like right when we are exiting the node in Voidstar to stop the cap) that prevents movement/actions/targeting in key moments but there is also periodic lag just like that on other occasions so it's hard to say that it's a hack.

 

But I know what I saw on the other occasions. I PvP almost exclusively and have multiple alts (DPS, stealth, tank and heals) so I am pretty comfortable with the game mechanics. I know what I saw and it wasn't right and I reported it. Given how much PvP I play, that's amounts to very few observable examples of actual hacking over many, many games. So I am not sure how prevalent it really is.

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and i have leveled to lvl 50 all classes only by pvping, and yes there are the resolve, stats and speed cheats - especially at lvl50.

 

The resolve hacks are as follows:

 

Gunslinger/sniper. Hunker down/entrench. Immune to stuns and such for 20 seconds

 

Jugg/guard. Force leap grants 4 sec immunity from stuns and such. Must be spec'd into.

 

Shadow/sin. Resilience 6 sec(I believe) immunity from stuns and such.

 

So yes. The reason why there is no action being taken against these hackers is because they are in fact using abilities not hacks. So when bw investigated they couldn't find anything.

 

And in answer to your question. No you will not SEE this action. If bw bans someone it is private.

Edited by sphyg
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I agree anyone who disagrees with hacking is a hacker.

 

I suspect you might be a hacker and your "Scripts in PVP" thread is merely a cunning trick to cover your tracks by making your behavior seem like a game-wide epidemic of which "your friend" was guilty but you, naturally, were not .

 

Your reply better be an admission of guilt. Otherwise, your own "analysis" convicts you.

 

Well, unless you're dealing in some very high-level, labor-intensive irony, in which case I'd owe you a salute.

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It's funny how quick people are to call someone a noob or other name when it's been proven on these same forums that it happens. I do advocate getting proof, but the proof in my opinion is that we've seen the videos where it's happens and know that people are capable of doing it.

 

In the past few days...and from 3-4 WZ's today, I've seen people using exploits or hacks. An assassin was getting focused, so to avoid it, he runs into a corner where no one can hit him. He and a few others on his side did that multiple times. I even tried hitting him with FiB to no avail. Exploit? Most likely. Acceptable? Only if you suck.

 

Another was a GS that kept targeting me on my Mara. I decided to go after him (Ancient Hypergates right by the pylon) and he was also getting focused by a few other people. When I decided to go after him he had about 75% health left when all of a sudden he dropped into the ground and I found myself targeting the healer next to him without switching to him. Glitch? Maybe. Exploit? Possibly. Cheating? Most likely.

 

Proof? None. I don't play this game with the intention of making videos. I play with the intention of having fun and trying to win a few WZ's before work. It's been proven that it happens so stop acting like everyone is a noob because it hasn't happened to you yet.

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It's funny how quick people are to call someone a noob or other name when it's been proven on these same forums that it happens. I do advocate getting proof, but the proof in my opinion is that we've seen the videos where it's happens and know that people are capable of doing it.

 

In the past few days...and from 3-4 WZ's today, I've seen people using exploits or hacks. An assassin was getting focused, so to avoid it, he runs into a corner where no one can hit him. He and a few others on his side did that multiple times. I even tried hitting him with FiB to no avail. Exploit? Most likely. Acceptable? Only if you suck.

 

Another was a GS that kept targeting me on my Mara. I decided to go after him (Ancient Hypergates right by the pylon) and he was also getting focused by a few other people. When I decided to go after him he had about 75% health left when all of a sudden he dropped into the ground and I found myself targeting the healer next to him without switching to him. Glitch? Maybe. Exploit? Possibly. Cheating? Most likely.

 

Proof? None. I don't play this game with the intention of making videos. I play with the intention of having fun and trying to win a few WZ's before work. It's been proven that it happens so stop acting like everyone is a noob because it hasn't happened to you yet.

 

WELL SAID!!!

 

And the glitch you mentioned, I just had that happen to me two times today. Right into the floor...gone. Marauder's cant do that.

 

I see odd behavior coming from players often. People spazzing around like they are on crack, etc. Enemies going in an out of stealth constantly killing me in 3 moves...when they are lower HP than me. I see and experience this stuff all the time. Tank that just keep going with 3 of us on him like were not even touching him. People heal spamming to the point where it takes 4 people to even get their health to drop. I could go on.

 

The PVP In this game is utterly broken. Having a lvl based que is half the problem. It needs to be HP or Gear based que's. If you are in EWH then you have to que in Tier 2, if you are in WH then you are in Tier 1, if you are in Recruit then you have to que in Beginner que. I use that as an example, becuase that's how it should be. Not just being lvl 50 where you have 14k HP people fighting 21k HP people. That's just wrong. Doing it as I suggest would make the game actually enjoyable, not just one long stress and frustration losing 15 games in a row when you need only 1 more for the weekly. Yes, some people play this game for FUN...not an ego boost.

 

Everytime I play PVP I just get upset and frustrated. I feel like I am wasting my time and have no enjoyment from it because of the things mentioned.

Edited by DarthVengeant
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Was in a game just now where one of my team mates accused one of the opponents for using an "immunity hack".

 

That's weird because I just killed that guy. It get's worse, the guy accusing the opponent was a shadow....and the other guy was an assassin. I think you can figure out the rest and how dumb the whole thing is.

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Have to ask what do you want to see OP, a list of the banned? a report by the day, week, or month? So far I have been lucky I guess as I have not seen that much hacking most of the problems I see is bugs, or lag.

 

But if there is hacking, and as much as the posts seems to make in this thread, other than a list of the banned, it's a free to play game. They ban someone, they create a new e-mail account and create a new toon and start again. Even in Live Microsoft could only slow cheaters, they banned the box and the account. So you started seeing e-bay full of boxes and they go buy a new one, and use a different account or credit card (or use time cards) and start again.

 

You will not find the answer you want in the forums, you vent get it off your chest. You see something off and think someone is hacking you ticket it, and let BW do their job. Jumping on people saying they are hacking in the forum because they have not seen anything is not going to solve anything, other than getting a forum ban if the mods feel you step over the line.

Edited by Rincewend
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WELL SAID!!!

 

And the glitch you mentioned, I just had that happen to me two times today. Right into the floor...gone. Marauder's cant do that.

 

I see odd behavior coming from players often. People spazzing around like they are on crack, etc. Enemies going in an out of stealth constantly killing me in 3 moves...when they are lower HP than me. I see and experience this stuff all the time. Tank that just keep going with 3 of us on him like were not even touching him. People heal spamming to the point where it takes 4 people to even get their health to drop. I could go on.

 

The PVP In this game is utterly broken. Having a lvl based que is half the problem. It needs to be HP or Gear based que's. If you are in EWH then you have to que in Tier 2, if you are in WH then you are in Tier 1, if you are in Recruit then you have to que in Beginner que. I use that as an example, becuase that's how it should be. Not just being lvl 50 where you have 14k HP people fighting 21k HP people. That's just wrong. Doing it as I suggest would make the game actually enjoyable, not just one long stress and frustration losing 15 games in a row when you need only 1 more for the weekly. Yes, some people play this game for FUN...not an ego boost.

 

Everytime I play PVP I just get upset and frustrated. I feel like I am wasting my time and have no enjoyment from it because of the things mentioned.

 

Your logic doesn't track. If hacking's the problem, then match-making is totally irrelevant. If match-making actually is a problem on your server, then a considerable portion of what you said can more easily be pinned on poor match-ups than assumed hacks. Personally, given what I've seen in videos, and heard in the forums, I suspect there might be a server culture element to all of this. I've never seen anything on my server that gave me any indication that it was more than either a game-based exploit or lag; but I'm also on a rp server, and, from what I've seen on the PTS, our culture is very... different from those present in the PVE and PVP servers. So, YMMV.

 

Sorry you feel frustrated with the pvp :(

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In the past few days...and from 3-4 WZ's today, I've seen people using exploits or hacks. An assassin was getting focused, so to avoid it, he runs into a corner where no one can hit him. He and a few others on his side did that multiple times. I even tried hitting him with FiB to no avail. Exploit? Most likely. Acceptable? Only if you suck.

 

I haven't heard of this, but I hope you sent a report about the location on the map. When Novarre came out you could cap through the walls behind the terminals. I submitted a ticket the first time I saw someone doing it and got an individualized reply within a half an hour. That exploit has since been fixed (I think, anyway). Not sure if the customer support would still be as quick now, but I think there's a lot of evidence that BW has been taking "meaningful action" (see also bans and their ongoing efforts to prevent people from sneaking out of start zones).

 

Another was a GS that kept targeting me on my Mara. I decided to go after him (Ancient Hypergates right by the pylon) and he was also getting focused by a few other people. When I decided to go after him he had about 75% health left when all of a sudden he dropped into the ground and I found myself targeting the healer next to him without switching to him. Glitch? Maybe. Exploit? Possibly. Cheating? Most likely.

 

This is why people don't take hacking accusations seriously--or why I don't, anyway. In lieu of evidence (and I understand completely the various reasons people aren't providing it on the forums), hack-accusers have to rely on arguments--but typically those arguments are seriously flawed.

 

Here, you provide no support for the assertion that it's "most likely" cheating as opposed to glitch- or lag-based. Slinger cover mechanics are screwy and floor-drops happen to all classes anyway (read the 5th post/1st page in this topic for an example of someone dropping halfway into the floor). Also, are you sure he didn't get killed and you weren't automatically switched to the next target? With what sounds like at least 4 people targeting him, it's entirely possible that his 75% health dropped in a spike--slingers don't last long when their defensive cooldowns are spent.

 

Proof? None. I don't play this game with the intention of making videos. I play with the intention of having fun and trying to win a few WZ's before work. It's been proven that it happens so stop acting like everyone is a noob because it hasn't happened to you yet.

 

I think that's a completely reasonable explanation for not providing video evidence, but cheating's only been proven to happen occasionally. What people are objecting to are allegations of widespread cheating. People who work hard to get good at PvP are going to be pissed when someone accuses them of cheating just because they're good at the game. Why can't you stun that Gunslinger? Because he used Hunker Down. Why can't you hurt that Mara? Because she used Undying Rage. How did one player do 200k more damage than another? Because the second player isn't using his full complement of abilities.

 

Maybe these aren't the types of problems you personally think are going on, but many accusations of hacking betray a lack of knowledge about player abilities ("resolve hacks"=defensive cooldowns, "speed hacks"=Force Speed, etc.). It doesn't make sense that people who play lots of lots of PvP, who focus on it and get good at it, would be the ones who almost never see it happen. I agree that the automatic response shouldn't be to start shouting "noob" at everyone who makes the claim, but people who want to make the argument typically do a really poor job of making the case for their position and frequently seem wedded to their conclusions. That obstinance makes conversations about hacking really frustrating.

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And the glitch you mentioned, I just had that happen to me two times today. Right into the floor...gone. Marauder's cant do that.

 

Never seen this but hope you reported it. Are you sure the players aren't actually just dying?

 

I see odd behavior coming from players often. People spazzing around like they are on crack, etc. Enemies going in an out of stealth constantly killing me in 3 moves...when they are lower HP than me. I see and experience this stuff all the time. Tank that just keep going with 3 of us on him like were not even touching him. People heal spamming to the point where it takes 4 people to even get their health to drop. I could go on.

 

Melee DPSers pretty frequently run around their targets in seemingly crazy ways. I believe it's to make themselves more difficult to target, though I've mostly played ranged/non-stealth characters so I'm no expert. I kill people in just a couple of hits pretty frequently--it's the perk to having high burst damage. The point of a tank is to be able to take a lot of damage and to that end they obviously have some potent defensive cooldown abilities that reduce damage taken and make them more difficult to hit. Heal-spamming is easy to counter-- use interrupts and CC that isn't broken by damage. And frankly, I'm sorry, but if it's just one healer and it takes four people to kill him, that suggests you aren't using enough of your attack abilities.

 

Doing it as I suggest would make the game actually enjoyable, not just one long stress and frustration losing 15 games in a row when you need only 1 more for the weekly. Yes, some people play this game for FUN...not an ego boost.

 

Everytime I play PVP I just get upset and frustrated. I feel like I am wasting my time and have no enjoyment from it because of the things mentioned.

 

I'm sorry to hear that, and I can kind of understand where you're coming from with the matchmaking stuff, but what do people who take it more seriously do? Please spare me your condescending "ego boost" stuff--for me, the time I invested to try to get somewhat better is part of the fun. It isn't that hard to get halfway decent. If you watch a couple of youtube clips of people playing who are good you can learn a lot about how to get better at your class. And you know what? It's massively frustrating to see people swing only 50 or 60k damage in Voidstar, and also frustrating to sit in a queue for twenty or thirty minutes waiting for it to fill. There might be something to more intelligent matchmaking, but it will come at the cost of a longer queue, and I'm not sure that cost is worth it--for me, anyway.

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