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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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All I can garner is a street address, and a phone number that presumably goes to the front office:

 

Matthew Bromberg

General Manager, BioWare Austin

3110 Esperanza Crossing, Ste. 110

Austin, TX 78758

 

(512) 382-8682

 

Woot, found his twitter: @MBromberg

Edited by natashina
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We might try George Takei, who is an outspoken proponent of all things gay & geek. He spearheads a sort of detente between Star Wars fans and Star Trek fans, being a fan of both. Perhaps when he is less busy with the first run of his stage show, Allegience, which deals with the internment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII – rather a larger issue, to be sure.

 

Also, I'd like to give the team at least a decent chance to respond to my message before I follow through on my stated intention regarding going over their heads. So personally, I recommend not approaching the general manager until we can do so in a more unified fashion.

Edited by Uluain
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We could give Mr. Takei a short email or something on the subject, just to let him know. Though he probably would not be able to do much himself, he might be able to pass the information on (or so I can dream).

 

Edit: Once we can start getting our thoughts and opinions more organised and in a more... polite language than what is probably currently available to us (:p), it will likely have been enough time for the Community Team, Mr. Gonzalez or Ms. Berryman to have received, read and deleted our messages.

Edited by Tatile
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What responses?

 

Exactly. ;)

 

More to the point, the copy and pasta responses we've been getting. The ones that BW/EA say that the mods can only use. As frustrated as I am, I know the mods are doing all they can and I'm going to remain polite. I'm sure even Mr. Gonzales has his hands tied by his bosses. We should bring up the quality of the messages they are allowed to give. It's become total bantha poo at this point. No need to shoot the messengers though.

 

 

Edit: Just finished reading about possibly contacting the Lord of All Things Gay and Geek Himself, George Takei. As I did, Doup's text alert went off. His text alert is "Oh, Myyyy." I love my Doupster. :D

Edited by natashina
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List of notable persons

Ms. Ginger Maseda - Inclusion Leader at EA (and Global Talent Acquisition Leader)

Mr. Mattew Bromberg - General Manager at Bioware: Austin (responsible for Star Wars: The Old Republic)

Mr. Daniel Erikson - previous writer of Star Wars: The Old Republic

Mr. David Gaider - previous writer at Bioware The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

Mr. Hall Hood - current lead writer of Star Wars: The Old Republic

 

Dr. Muzyka and Dr. Zeschuk (founders of Bioware, now departed) - http://kotaku.com/5888909/why-a-video-game-blockbuster-will-finally-allow-you-to-be-a-gay-man

- quotes of article therein

 

Mr. Stephen Reid - former Community Manager

Mr. Jopeth Gonzales - current Community Manager

 

 

Quick list off the top of my head and from bouncing around this thread. If there are any corrections or additions that need to be made, let me know. I'm looking at gathering quotes from persons both past and present at Bioware and EA on the subject of same-sex romances and content in video games, as well as names of individuals who are involved in the writing process for this game and community engagement, hence why Mr. Gonzales is on the list, despite the fact he hasn't done a damn thing.

Edited by Tatile
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There are some that believe I should shut up about SGRs. I'm not going to. I love the crap out of this game and I still find it worth my money. I can understand why some people are fed the truck up. I don't want to be silent about this, because I want to see this promised content come to pass. I don't want the player base to shrink further due to BW/EA's silence. This content would add yards of replay value in the game for me and others. For even more still, it would allow them to not have to roll an opposite gender or remain celibate in order to enjoy the romance arcs. It isn't a deal breaker for me, but I know that it is for others. I'll do it for those that are getting too angry about it and feel like their money was wasted. As long as I enjoy the game and find it worth my money, I'll keep asking about/pushing for SGRs.

Edited by natashina
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As frustrated as I am, I know the mods are doing all they can and I'm going to remain polite. I'm sure even Mr. Gonzales has his hands tied by his bosses. We should bring up the quality of the messages they are allowed to give. It's become total bantha poo at this point. No need to shoot the messengers though.

 

 

 

If the mods aren't escalating our questions to the review board or Secret Masters or Grand Inquisitor or whoever makes the call as often as we ask, then they aren't doing all they can. At every meeting, I want to know they are saying "and here are the questions from the SGR thread that haven't been answered." If a decision has been made not to release info until Date X, I want to know that decision is being appealed. This is appalling and unconscionable.

 

It was already appalling and unconscionable to implement opposite-gender romance while leaving same-gender romance to languish until some future date.

 

About all we can thank the Community Support team for at this stage is keeping this thread troll-free, and permitting the occasional same-gender concerns thread with a different focus (confirming the rumors re: Makeb, same-gender [Flirt] prompts) to remain open (on Suggestion Box and General Discussion, respectively) although neither of those has received any sort of Community Team feedback either.

Edited by Uluain
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If the mods aren't escalating our questions to the review board or Secret Masters or Grand Inquisitor or whoever makes the call as often as we ask, then they aren't doing all they can. At every meeting, I want to know they are saying "and here are the questions from the SGR thread that haven't been answered." If a decision has been made not to release info until Date X, I want to know that decision is being appealed. This is appalling and unconscionable.

 

It was already appalling and unconscionable to implement opposite-gender romance while leaving same-gender romance to languish until some future date.

 

How do we know that they don't? They very well could have and still get told, "Sorry, this is all you are allowed to tell the players." Plus, I'm not sure how many people would believe it is brought up at meetings at all, even if the moderators came flat out and said it. However, this amount of copy and pasta makes me wonder if some of the people that left BW/EA have due to things like this. Especially in the case of Daniel Erickson, who was the most outspoken for equal gamer rights.

 

In any case, they need to show us some signs one way or the other. It's insulting in many many ways. I'm with you there. :(

 

About all we can thank the Community Support team for at this stage is keeping this thread troll-free, and permitting the occasional same-gender concerns thread with a different focus (confirming the rumors re: Makeb, same-gender [Flirt] prompts) to remain open (on Suggestion Box and General Discussion, respectively) although neither of those has received any sort of Community Team feedback either.

 

Again, I think many of the community team with the possible exceptions of Ms. Berryman and Mr. Gonzales, have had their hands severely tied. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just trying to see the different angles. It doesn't make it right or good one way or another.

 

edit: gah, cut off part of the quote. Sorry Uluain.

Edited by natashina
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Oh, I can tell their hands are tied - and it is Joveth, Grand High Poobah of Community Stuff himself, who has spoken of having to get material approved for release. Generally, I believe they would like to tell us. I am usually less ornery and bitter unless like today they do something so completely thoughtless that it ticks me off.

 

If they know this is a matter players feel strongly about, and if they really are concerned about it, they could have forseen that pushing companion romance as a feature in their daily blurb was at least potentially divisive. And I am not the only person who responded in such a fashion on Facebook. I loathe Twitter and all its work, and only made an account because it was offered as an avenue of community information, and have not combed through the #DailySWTOR replies for today to see how many others said something similar.

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Oh, I can tell their hands are tied - and it is Joveth, Grand High Poobah of Community Stuff himself, who has spoken of having to get material approved for release. Generally, I believe they would like to tell us. I am usually less ornery and bitter unless like today they do something so completely thoughtless that it ticks me off.

 

I hear you. When I made one of my rants the other day, I was extremely bitter over the articles. Gah, it still can get my blood boiling. I'm glad we wrote them and got it changed, but why in Hades did we have to?? Why didn't EA go back and clarify?

 

Yep, I'm still insulted by it. :mad:

 

 

If they know this is a matter players feel strongly about, and if they really are concerned about it, they could have forseen that pushing companion romance as a feature in their daily blurb was at least potentially divisive. And I am not the only person who responded in such a fashion on Facebook. I loathe Twitter and all its work, and only made an account because it was offered as an avenue of community information, and have not combed through the #DailySWTOR replies for today to see how many others said something similar.

 

Here here! I hate Twitter as well. That's why my sig was, "The Devs finally did it. They drove me to Tweet. :eek:" Sometimes the phrase, "Sound and Fury equally nothing" comes to mind in Twitter. Everyone has so much to say, and yet rarely seems to say anything at all. Not a huge fan of FB, but it did give me a chance to meet my long lost 1/2 sister, as well as other family. The fact that they didn't even consider the feelings of the LGBT fanbase when they posted that questions burnt my biscuits.

 

Look EA/BW, if you're going to drop SGRs, just do it already and save us the trouble. If not, at least acknowledge the fact we are here, and stop putting us in the closet.

 

Ugh.

 

edit: got rid of a sentence that made no sense. Yes, I preview these things. And yes, I rather suck at it.

Edited by natashina
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My response on Facebook regarding the whole romance question:

 

Pierce is unfinished and a fade to black doesn't quite cut it. I would love to romance Kira or Kalyio, but for some reason the PROMISED sgr content has not made it into the game. Way to push the whole, "this year" statement guys.
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The rotten thing is that I don't think that they are going to abandon SGRs, that they will implement them, but that when they do we will have not had any information given beforehand to let us know how best to set ourselves up to enjoy them (Do I level or not? Will this be available befor level 50? Will this be available at level 50? If I pass the point where OG romance begins with that companion, have I missed it for SG? Will the companion I am hoping to romance even be available or am I better off not hoping? etc).

 

All of these are points that must be known by those developing the content if we are going to see it this year at all. They could answer these questions, but for whatever reason they won't.

 

Since this summer, I have kept my subscription current as much for the Cartel Coin bonus as anything else. After that, it really is getting to the point where frustration over the absence of this content, compounded by the cavalier disregard shown toward players interested in it, is outweighing my enjoyment of the game. And that is a terrible shame. I like this game a lot. I really do. So to have sand metaphorically kicked in my face like this is genuinely disappointing.

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The rotten thing is that I don't think that they are going to abandon SGRs, that they will implement them, but that when they do we will have not had any information given beforehand to let us know how best to set ourselves up to enjoy them (Do I level or not? Will this be available befor level 50? Will this be available at level 50? If I pass the point where OG romance begins with that companion, have I missed it for SG? Will the companion I am hoping to romance even be available or am I better off not hoping? etc).

 

All of these are points that must be known by those developing the content if we are going to see it this year at all. They could answer these questions, but for whatever reason they won't.

 

Since this summer, I have kept my subscription current as much for the Cartel Coin bonus as anything else. After that, it really is getting to the point where frustration over the absence of this content, compounded by the cavalier disregard shown toward players interested in it, is outweighing my enjoyment of the game. And that is a terrible shame. I like this game a lot. I really do. So to have sand metaphorically kicked in my face like this is genuinely disappointing.

 

Total agreement here: the vagueness of "when" wouldn't be so bad if they just answered the "who, how and which" questions - especially for the people having to park alts at certain planets and abandon them. (i.e, all of us)

 

All we're getting is the ever-present wall of silence... "remember, kids, you can't spell 'heteronormalcy' without 'normal'."

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I think it is also appalling that the stock reply that the subject does get is from pre-launch and from a person who is no longer with the studio. I can almost recite it like the "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi" speech:

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

Likewise, anything we heard at the Guild Summit is from... someone no longer at the studio. What we have from current members of the development team is "Makeb, I think, but that's not really anything I do," from the PvP Czar and a "Here's the official word-->" pointing to that same uncertain interview in a comment deleted within a couple hours by the current Lead Writer (who, in all fairness, didn't have to say even that much, and who seems like a decent enough guy).

Edited by Uluain
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I know they won't scrap SGRs, that they are coming and that it will (probably) be a really neat side to the romance arcs. Sometimes irritation and frustration get the better of me. :o

 

Right now, I think the two biggest questions we have is how and something resembling when. With leveling, should we keep truckin' to 50 or should we stop? Is some of the SGRs going to be as important to the story like, say, Kira? This is little things I'd like to know. Not necessarily who, but whether or not the companion so important to the story that we miss out by leveling.

 

The stupid boilerplate response from last year from a departed employee NO. LONGER. WORKS.

 

Guild Summit quotes from another departed employee(the biggest loss for equal rights for BW) NO. LONGER. WORKS.

 

The copy and pasta from the moderators NEVER. HAS. WORKED.

 

And vague statements from a PvP developer in an otherwise unrelated interview DOES. NOT. WORK.

 

Twitter should not be where we have to go for ANY confirmation. Electric Arts/BioWare is just one company with an MMO that overuses Twitter, and leaves the players here even more confused.

 

Deleted Tweets DO. NOT. WORK

 

It isn't any real information, but it does leave me with the sensation of being given the runaround.

 

As I stated in my letters and pm's, an official word (seriously, it's still "coming this year?") other than Soon would go a long way to assure the LGBT player base that they care. At least let us know if we are missing story by leveling ahead of time.

 

Anger I have. Calm the devs, they can. Vital information is.

Edited by natashina
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We know roughly when - sometime around the end of December, or else somewhere around early February, going by the 6 week target dates and assuming Makeb is in fact it (thanks for letting me open a thread to ask, but it would be nice to know one way or the other), and assuming Makeb is the next content patch or so.

 

Who and how are what they have never really even commented on beyond Mr. Erickson's "companions who make sense" and "no, I won't tell you" remarks, which we have picked over like buzzards stripping a carcass for months now.

 

And just to make this point again, it isn't just LGBT players who want this. My straight, married, church-going mother of three sister wants this (she thinks Mako really suits her female BH concept as a love-interest). Other self-descrbed straight players, of both genders, have stopped by to check in here. Some were regular posters (MusedMoose is much missed). Many of them also helped us show a presence in the Community Q&A, week after week, so that roughly one in ten questions asked regarded SGRs – not that they ever were addressed!

 

This content has appeal beyond LGBT players, and that is a point that is overlooked or simply never occurs to naysayers who dismiss those interested in SGRs as an insignificant minority, so I thought it worth addressing.

Edited by Uluain
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Wouldn't February violate this whole, "this year statement?" I'm nitpicking, but I'm not trying to pick on you Uluain. Promise. ;) I know it's not just the LGBT community that wants this. Any type of roleplayer that wants this is more than apart of it as well. Didn't mean to come off otherwise. My bad. :o

 

Eh, otherwise I see your point. The who I care about are there the ones that have the biggest impact on the class story. Finding out if, for example, Kira or Kaylio are going to be available would really help. That would tie in the how to level til then nicely.

 

They are just two examples of companions with a huge impact on the class story. Those are the ones whom we need know I think.

Edited by natashina
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Wouldn't February violate this whole, "this year statement?" I'm nitpicking, but I'm not trying to pick on you Uluain. Promise. ;) I know it's not just the LGBT community that wants this. Any type of roleplayer that wants this is more than apart of it as well. Didn't mean to come off otherwise. My bad. :o

 

Eh, otherwise I see your point. The who I care about are there the ones that have the biggest impact on the class story. Finding out if, for example, Kira or Kaylio are going to be available would really help. That would tie in the how to level til then nicely.

 

They are just two examples of companions with a huge impact on the class story. Those are the ones whom we need know I think.

 

They were very careful never to clarify "this calendar year"... I've been wary of that for months now. (As opposed to how generous their other clarifcations have been, I know...)

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I am allowing for February because development time is inevitably elastic. With the best intentions in the world, Makeb might be pushed back. They are surprising me, however, by bundling in F2P alongside Belsavis Area X and HK-51 (I had supposed the two would be deployed separately). I am supposing that Makeb and Ancient Hypergates may be the same content patch as well... but we simply don't know.

 

I think "this year" meant 2012, and also "the first year from Launch" which amounts to about the same thing. I think it is reasonably decent of them to schedule SGRs within this first year of development, as that is a crowded and crucial time for any new MMO and the F2P thing must have cramped some design time for other things. But it certainly sounded at the Guild Summit as though they had already firmly committed to the first story expansion for the first year, which is a good goal to set. Here is hoping they meet it.

 

On the other hand (said the Libra), as often as we have wondered, or asked if the timing has been adversely affected by changes at the studio or in the direction of the game, that bald statement of "this year" has never been clarified or reconfirmed. So my optimism is a tad brittle.

Edited by Uluain
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I think "this year" meant 2012, and also "the first year from Launch" which amounts to about the same thing. I think it is reasonably decent of them to schedule SGRs within this first year of development, as that is a crowded and crucial time for any new MMO and the F2P thing must have cramped some design time for other things.

 

True - I'm a wave 2 "Red-Zoner" so Launch, in my mind, was March; I keep forgetting it was actually New Year's.

Edited by Palar
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I personally signed up on 12/31/2012. Doup had signed up a few of days prior, so I want to say the week after Christmas at Launch. I'm still expecting to see SGRs before 2013. If I don't, well hopefully they'll have a darned good reason as to why and let us know. Edited by natashina
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I didn't manage to get the game and set up my own account until the first week of January, but did have a chance to try the game out on my sister's account over the holidays. Getting my Consular through to getting his ship was a big thrill, and a big selling point for me. I can still remember my giddy, fanboy thrill ("I get a Corellian Corvette!?"). So I have been with the game if not since beta or early launch or launch at least for a good while. Maybe that makes the wait seem longer.

 

But I feel like I have been a loyal player and a good customer and (mostly) a constructive online community member. Where is the encouragement of that?

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One of the worst parts of all this is that EA/BW seems to have slowly begun to fall into the trend of milking IPs and disregarding customers. Square-Enix, ATVI and other AAA companies act more interested in the bottom line. Instead of the source of their bottom line: players like us.

 

Like you Uluain, I'm also a Libra. On the one hand, I know this is a good game company and if nothing else, would make themselves look really bad by not putting this in. I maintain a fragile faith in the company that this isn't the case. Shoot, I plan on buying the Baldur's Gate update when it comes out. :D

 

On the other hand, the silence has gotten almost disturbing. I know we aren't the only part of the player base that feels ignored. Yet, with SGRs such a touchy subject for many people and by keeping mum on the subject, it sends the inadvertent message that the RP and the LGBT community don't matter.

Edited by natashina
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I accepted that it wasn't going to be in at launch, and I bought my game and have kept a loyal subscription since day one. I'm still enjoying this game, but it'll be a year come December, and if we tick over into 2013 without so much as a solid answer to when it'll be implimented, it's hard to keep your hopes up.
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