The point is that the PvE gear is way better than the PvP gear, the current bonus from expertise just ain't enough to throw off your top end pve gear.

I've already seen some ppl in centurion equipment with equipped rakata mods that claim that equipment like that is even better than battlemaster...

Thats my point I dont understand why we have pvp gear if the pve gear is better, I guess unless someone doesnt do both and only pvp's

They really need to make the pvp gear better and remove the % dmg/def vs player seems to cancel each other out . Id rather take +crit or surge or other usable stat vs expertise.

The point is that the PvE gear is way better than the PvP gear, the current bonus from expertise just ain't enough to throw off your top end pve gear.

 

I've already seen some ppl in centurion equipment with equipped rakata mods that claim that equipment like that is even better than battlemaster...

How does this make sense? My BM pieces have identical mods to my rakata. Why would centurion with the same mods be better?

BM gear has a higher base stat than champion and centurion, so taking 58 mods out and putting them in centurion gear is a gimp.

Even putting 56 mods into BM gear is a gimp. Best thing to do is to buy 58 mods that you want, or to farm them in ops yourself.

Not to mention that itemization for Rakata is about as bad as it is for BM for some classes. But the real thing to do is to mix/match for the ideal expertise stat, and the stacking your main stat on top of that through Rakata.

So that healers can keep you alive during combat.

/thread

hmm not sure how your BM gear is better than Rakata. Rakata has more End, more primary stat, than add what ever mods you use in and you still end up with better dmg stats than what Expertise attemps to do. Heals are the only benifit. If I wear full BM and you wear full BM the Expertise does nothing my extra %dmg will be removed by your %reduction so tell me how that is better than the extra +crit in expertises place on the Rakata?

Only way it is better is if you are fighting people that are less geared than you. Seems like a failed stat. As to heals gained form the % that is a good bonus, however playing a sniper I dont usually worry about heals myself as Im already pretty soft I learned to just play smart as a ranged.

Even with the 58 mods/enhancement you sitll wont get the same endurance or primary stat on BM as you would Rakata.

Only way it is better is if you are fighting people that are less geared than you. Seems like a failed stat. As to heals gained form the % that is a good bonus, however playing a sniper I dont usually worry about heals myself as Im already pretty soft I learned to just play smart as a ranged.

Expertise is used in your base attack formulas. Expertise damage reduction is applied across all of your endurance and applied to healed health. Heals ignore trauma based on your expertise.

In short, BM gear is better for PVP than Rakata gear if you are playing PVP.

Now, if you prefer to roll around in Rakata, that's cool. You'll be less effective however than someone else who doesn't.

How does this make sense? My BM pieces have identical mods to my rakata. Why would centurion with the same mods be better?

The point is; it's not better but than battlemaster but pretty much the same, minus some expertise, which is useless anyway after champion gear ( gives too low boost )

In short, BM gear is better for PVP than Rakata gear if you are playing PVP.

 

Now, if you prefer to roll around in Rakata, that's cool. You'll be less effective however than someone else who doesn't.

Rakata gear is pretty much as battlemaster if compared in PvP. It shouldn't be so in PvP.

My PvP gear ain't as near as cool in PvE situations, such as raiding.

I saw many people in full champion gear getting owned by RAKATA geared people with 0 expertise. So that's 600+ expertise against 0.

Expertise is a piece of junk therefore.

Expertise is used in your base attack formulas. Expertise damage reduction is applied across all of your endurance and applied to healed health. Heals ignore trauma based on your expertise.

 

In short, BM gear is better for PVP than Rakata gear if you are playing PVP.

 

Now, if you prefer to roll around in Rakata, that's cool. You'll be less effective however than someone else who doesn't.

But that doesnt hold true in Dmg and Kills. In my Rakata as a Sniper I am almost always top dmg and kills in Rakata and in my BM gear same mods I get almost 100k less dmg and fewer kills. This is why I want to know why BM vs the Rakata. I dont see any benifits other than Heals to live longer, but if I am getting top kills and top dmg than extra heals could help but like I said in my BM I cant achive that goal seems almost like its less over all.

I still think it has more to do with Rakata having more over all stats and higher crit / surge maybe instead of the expertise.

Rakata gear is pretty much as battlemaster if compared in PvP. It shouldn't be so in PvP.

 

My PvP gear ain't as near as cool in PvE situations, such as raiding.

 

I saw many people in full champion gear getting owned by RAKATA geared people with 0 expertise. So that's 600+ expertise against 0.

 

Expertise is a piece of junk therefore.

Thats what I am saying it sure seems that way and I wanted to see how people would argue the other side to see if maybe I am missing something or not modding right... basically I wanted someone to sell me into my BM gear as to why I want to wear it.

Now mind you looking at this thread and a few others it would seem that some classes get the same stats or so they say, but as a IA sniper My Rakata gives me a few more k in health and over 150more dps. , more crits and more surge... vs BM gear with a small 500 health on a heal and maybe some extra dmg is they guy is wearing less BM gear.

Rakata gear is pretty much as battlemaster if compared in PvP. It shouldn't be so in PvP.

 

My PvP gear ain't as near as cool in PvE situations, such as raiding.

 

I saw many people in full champion gear getting owned by RAKATA geared people with 0 expertise. So that's 600+ expertise against 0.

 

Expertise is a piece of junk therefore.

There isn't any Op in the game right now you can't run the Hard Mode for in Champion gear, let alone BM gear. The only thing that requires some Rakata is nightmare modes and even that is debatable.

IMHO, working as intended. This basically means you need to run the Hard Mode for EV a few times before running the nightmare mode. Seems logical to me.

hmm not sure how your BM gear is better than Rakata. Rakata has more End, more primary stat, than add what ever mods you use in and you still end up with better dmg stats than what Expertise attemps to do. Heals are the only benifit. If I wear full BM and you wear full BM the Expertise does nothing my extra %dmg will be removed by your %reduction so tell me how that is better than the extra +crit in expertises place on the Rakata?

 

Only way it is better is if you are fighting people that are less geared than you. Seems like a failed stat. As to heals gained form the % that is a good bonus, however playing a sniper I dont usually worry about heals myself as Im already pretty soft I learned to just play smart as a ranged.

 

Even with the 58 mods/enhancement you sitll wont get the same endurance or primary stat on BM as you would Rakata.

In full bm I have roughly 13% expertise or +13% damage given -13% damage taken and +13% healing. In full Rakata I get ~+200 primary(13% more) and +200 (13% more) endurance. Secondary stats are identical for both Rakata and BM for my class. My rakata set bonuses flat suck in comparison to my BM ones.

Improved healing from BM and set bonuses alone make it better for me. I've also found that +13% more primary stat isn't a 13% damage buff. Your class may be different.

i have columi wrist tank piece drop from BT i believe its not top PVE gear but it have 14 endurance more compared to the BM survivor piece which is kinda weird...

no idea how hard is to get the PVE gear but if its not much harder than the PVP one there should not be such big difference in stats imo

I took this example from another thread.

I sear though my Rakata has extra stats I will have to check this once I get back on line.

Let's use an example: These are exact DPS stat + Endurance for Combat Tech(powertech dps)

Helmet:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Hands:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Body:

RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Legs:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

Feet:

RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

(122*3+112*2-94*5)/(94*5) = 25.53% increase in DPS stats that Rakata has over Battlemaster

(thank you wolfram alpha )

In every case, Rakata has more endurance and more aim. this is the SAME throughout ALL the dps class sets(the tanking sets have way more endurance). This is WHY rakata is so much better, as expertise just doesn't stack up as well as the extra dps and endurance stats.

The point is simple... BM gear pulls off the moment you get any sort of healing.

3k worth of healing on Rakata dude is effectively ~3.3k for BM one, because of extra damage reduction from expertise, which makes health gains more effective.

So basically Full BM and Rakata you will roughly do same damage, have the same effective HP, but all healing and shielding done on you as BM is 12% more effective, by the grace of a fact that you lose health slower thanks to damage reduction.

Also the above is quite flawed, you are not taking into account the fact that in the end your final Primary stat in the Character Sheet won't be increased by 25% and other than that +25% to Primary Stat is far from +25% DPS. Effectively it is lower than whatever full Expertise gearing at those levels gives.

I took this example from another thread.

I sear though my Rakata has extra stats I will have to check this once I get back on line.

 

Let's use an example: These are exact DPS stat + Endurance for Combat Tech(powertech dps)

 

Helmet:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

 

Hands:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

 

Body:

RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

 

Legs:

RAKATA = 122 AIM 105 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

 

Feet:

RAKATA = 112 AIM 116 Endurance

BM = 94 Aim 92 Endurance

 

(122*3+112*2-94*5)/(94*5) = 25.53% increase in DPS stats that Rakata has over Battlemaster

 

(thank you wolfram alpha )

 

In every case, Rakata has more endurance and more aim. this is the SAME throughout ALL the dps class sets(the tanking sets have way more endurance). This is WHY rakata is so much better, as expertise just doesn't stack up as well as the extra dps and endurance stats.

While I respect you numbers and opinion, until we get a combat log and dps meter it's difficult to determine exactly how much extra damage that aim would provide during a dps scenario. It's easy enough to know how much extra benefit we get from expertise comparatively.

I really wish this game would have dynamic skill tooltips. Seeing the base damage listed for every skill no matter what your gear is extremely annoying.

The point is simple... BM gear pulls off the moment you get any sort of healing.

 

3k worth of healing on Rakata dude is effectively ~3.3k for BM one, because of extra damage reduction from expertise, which makes health gains more effective.

 

So basically Full BM and Rakata you will roughly do same damage, have the same effective HP, but all healing and shielding done on you as BM is 12% more effective, by the grace of a fact that you lose health slower thanks to damage reduction.

Ah that is true, however now in order for your armor to be 12% more effective you have to get the heals which is where the flaw is and why I believe that Rakata is better. In most WZ people travel in as a pact for the first few minutes but soon as they all split most plays will not have a healer near by which makes that 12% a chance and a low one at that if you are not with a bunch of friends or good healers that work well. But add in CC's and Rakata geared can control the 12% wihch is why BM gear is failing

But that doesnt hold true in Dmg and Kills. In my Rakata as a Sniper I am almost always top dmg and kills in Rakata and in my BM gear same mods I get almost 100k less dmg and fewer kills.

I'm guessing you solo queue and play warzones like they're just a series of 1vs1 fights but even a side heal now and then from a healer makes BM gear better than Rakata because dead people don't do any damage and can't kill anyone.

While I respect you numbers and opinion, until we get a combat log and dps meter it's difficult to determine exactly how much extra damage that aim would provide during a dps scenario. It's easy enough to know how much extra benefit we get from expertise comparatively.

 

I really wish this game would have dynamic skill tooltips. Seeing the base damage listed for every skill no matter what your gear is extremely annoying.

It can be tested we have the stats and using a person to play dummy in full BM and with you with both sets and same mods you can see the numbers thats why I think the BM needs to be fixed to be more inline.

There isn't any Op in the game right now you can't run the Hard Mode for in Champion gear, let alone BM gear. The only thing that requires some Rakata is nightmare modes and even that is debatable.

 

IMHO, working as intended.

Reading this forum over the past few months, people have defended a PvP stat by saying without it, raiders would come into PvP and dominate without doing any PvP. I'm sure there are classes that can do this based on the way Expertise was (hopefully) setup to balance.

At 10% expertise, you do 10% more damage and take 10% less damage. So, a class designed to not get hit is going to benefit more from higher tier PvE gear, rather than Expertise. With trauma, I would assume a healer relies on Expertise more than other classes. As a Guardian, I can do ok in my Rakata/Columi set, but Expertise is extremely important for me because I have to take a lot of damage to inflict my own.

But the real reason you should use BM gear is for the same reason I should use Rakata in Dungeons/ops: you shouldn't have to do PvE to PvP or vice versa.

But really, this argument won't be solved till we get a combat log.

It can be tested we have the stats and using a person to play dummy in full BM and with you with both sets and same mods you can see the numbers thats why I think the BM needs to be fixed to be more inline.

So you've extensively tested this while recording the hits you've dealt? I couldn't get some one to bother letting me beat on them for the hours it would take to properly execute the experiment lol.

There isn't any Op in the game right now you can't run the Hard Mode for in Champion gear, let alone BM gear. The only thing that requires some Rakata is nightmare modes and even that is debatable.

 

IMHO, working as intended. This basically means you need to run the Hard Mode for EV a few times before running the nightmare mode. Seems logical to me.

World first for the two Operations on NM mode is on Port Nowehere (Pub side). The guild is a primary PvP guild, I am not sure about their gearing but most of them did have BM gear when they down it. I am assuming it's not optimal, but definitely doable.

As for Rataka vs BM gear, I have seen the arguments, and it is somewhat debatable, but until numbers show up I won't say one way or another. However to the person saying their friend poped out enhancements/mods from their Rata gear to put it in their Centurion outperformed BM geared players is bunch of crap. Armoring cannot be replaced, you are basically wearing a BM gear with less main stat, end, and expertise. The Mods and Enhancement from BM and Rata gear is exactly the same, in fact most PvPers drop their mods or enhancement for the champ mods/enhancement for better gearing. If I remember correctly Rataka armor you should basically do the same.