I am one of those 80% that don't post a lot and here is MY take.

Each group has some very valid points BUT it IS a service to us to play.

One area that we as a community HAVE failed is in the way we have complained. We have complained, B****HED, whined and pointed out ALL that was wrong. When you do something and someone points out EVERY detail of what you COULD have done you resent it.

Same with BW/EA. Do we know the story from behind the 'gaming devs curtain'? No we do not. We do not know what they were told, budgeted for or able to do right then.

Maybe they did not realize the leveling could happen that fast. A lot of maybes we do NOT know of.

BW does need a better customer servicing/communications person(s) to discuss with the community, BUT many of them, like any blog, ppl hide behind their mouse buttons and whine about everything from what their shoes look like to not enough content.

I have been playing since Feb. of this year AND I leveled to 50 about a month ago (I have a life, job, children and a business) I am know learning how to play a level 50 Jedi all over again.

My point is this, if you have a complaint, whine, bi**h then come up with a solution or two that many people might enjoy, not just for your advantage over everyone else. What would make the game GROW for all? Is it your pet peeve or a true glitch in game play? Or an idea or two about missions, pve, pvp and to also realize that maybe the game went faster than expected. It takes time to make a new mission, flash or pvp world.

This strictly MY view, don't care if you trash it because I love the game and the ideas behind it. I have NEVER played WoW or anything else on line but have gamed since D&D was three little books.

Try being positive and thoughtful when criticizing anything. It could be you that made this game and if you suggest instead of tear down someones hard work then it WILL NOT FAIL.

Have a great Day and see you in the Galaxy...DonK:cool:

I am not taking the blame for EA's hubris. THEY were the ones who thought "Star Wars name = instant 10 million subs" and then promptly started eviscerating Bioware Austin 2 months in when the game wasn't hitting WoW numbers. Which only amplified the problem because it's kind of hard to make exciting new content when your studio's workforce is cut in half (or third...or tenth, not sure what the exact number is). That is squarely EA's fault.

Complaining about content makes players "entitled"? Really? Bioware/EA was the one saying early on (I think it was in February) "Content every 4 weeks!" which they then upped to "Every 6 weeks!" which they then just ignored and released content whenever. Now they are back to saying "6 weeks" but given that Bioware is still losing devs (apparently the lead designer just walked out today) that seems unlikely. In today's environment with plenty of good F2P offerings TOR was asking a lot for a $15 subscription fee and it failed to provide enough value to make it worth it to, what was the number, 1.1 million subs? Out of 1.7 million that is hardly an "undeserved sense of entitlement". Standards are higher and TOR didn't meet them and then EA decided to stop supporting it. I remember telling several of my friends in November right before launch "TOR will be free to play in a year or sooner" because there is no way a subscription model will survive in this world unless the devs do something crazy like content every month to really make it worth it which of course is unrealistic to expect.

Yeah I think some of the community's response was wrong. Anyone complaining about PvP comes to mind because from the beginning this game was going to be about PVE and the story. But most of the other complaints I see on the forum are entirely the fault of EA/Bioware. They were the ones making promises and then breaking them, they were the ones ignoring the player base and failing to communicate anything, and they (well EA) was the one that decided to put the game in maintenance mode after 6 months instead of actually developing it and trying to turn its fortunes around, thereby guaranteeing it lingers in its current state until they pull the plug.

If TOR is going to turn around it's the devs that need to fix it. Yes the forums are full of negativity but most of it is legitimate from fed-up customers angry at being ignored by a company trying to charge them $15 a month for very little meaningful content. It is entirely possible F2P will turn the game around but I really, really doubt it. EA doesn't want to put any resources into bettering the game and they seem content to let it remain a solid, somewhat generic MMO for another year or so until it stops covering its costs and they shut it down. Which is a shame because it could have been great.

In response to the post above me "What would make the game grow?" Bioware/EA needs content and they need to communicate with the players. The community will get positive when we have something to be positive about. The only time I ever see TOR mentioned on gaming sites these days is either someone saying how hard it failed or someone reporting more people are leaving the studio. I don't remember the last time I saw something positive written about TOR anywhere not just on the forums but elsewhere. The closest I saw was some analysts sounding cautiously optimistic about the game's F2P prospects. That needs to stop or no one is going to play even if it is free.

No, this isn't a thread about the doctors left because of us, EA is the devil, yada yada. No, this is just me getting out there where I believe we went wrong.

 

Here are our most blatant errors regarding this game.

 

Believing it would compete with World of Warcraft.

Yes, even I'll admit, I fantasized about TOR putting a dent in WoW's subscriber base. But when I came to my senses, it dawned on me that TOR cannot compete with a game that has had 8 years to build a very solid foundation. It's just not gonna happen. Countless MMO's have been claimed to be the 'WoW Killer'. Face it, the only thing that is going to kill WoW is WoW. In between Cataclysm and Pandaria, we saw more than 800,000 subscribers leave of their own accord. When WoW finally dies, it won't have anything to do with the competition.

 

A stellar RPG DOES NOT equal a stellar MMO.

It's obvious. The Old Republic got the budget it did because of the success of Knights of the Old Republic and because EA wanted a piece of the WoW pie (there's publishers for ya *grumble grumble). One of the most successful Star Wars games of all time, and the first Star Wars RPG. KOTOR is also home to what is widely considered to be the greatest plot twist in all of gaming.

Like it or not, you add in MMO elements, you ARE going to muck up what made the game great in the first place. It's a lesson the industry hasn't quite learned yet, but I hope it does soon, before every beloved franchise is bastardized in MMO form.

I am highly anticipating The Elder Scrolls Online having the EXACT same problems this game has.

 

We should not be allowed to complain about a lack of content for the entire first year.

I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you were one of the players that hit 50 in the first week, you shouldn't even be allowed to post on the forums, and if you complained about lack of an end game in that time frame, you should be permabanned with no second chances.

This is the first MMO of it's kind - story-heavy, fully-voiced content. That is what the majority of players liked the most in this game; the leveling and the story. Content like that is going to take more time to generate. And I certainly hope that's the kind of content that is consistently generated, because if not, F2P or not, this game will fall even further than it has in terms of sub count.

This game is not about having one character and getting better and better and better gear (that's actually what I detest most about MMO's). No, the Legacy system was built around re-rolling once you hit 50, to experience another story, and the Legacy system gave you options to have a small leg-up with a new character.

 

Well, there are my quick thoughts. Debate, add to it, flame, it's all good.

What's this WE crap? You have a mouse in your pocket?

How are WE to blame for the game competing with WoW when that is what Bioware/EA said?

I agree with the second point but again that is not OUR problem, the community did not make the game.

As for number 3. Your idea would be fine if the game was not just one linear amusement park ride on rails. SWG did not have end game content but the whole world was open to do what you want. People formed their own communities and did things. That is impossible with this type of game. If you don't keep coming out with content people get bored.

Let me get one thing out in the open first before I carry on. This is the only MMO I've ever played. But on the flipside to that, I've been gaming on various platforms since I was around 6 - so about 27 years. I consider myself to be a 'core' gamer and I'm completely platform agnostic.

Right:

You're 100% wrong!!! WE...NONE of us...have made ANY errors. WE are not the programmers. WE are not the producers. WE are not coders. WE didn't rush anything. WE didn't make promises WE had no intention of keeping. WE are the CUSTOMER and WE have every right to demand a decent game for our $. When 4 of every 5 people who paid full price for this game, have QUIT it, it tells you it's just a BAD GAME. WE had nothing to do with that. WE gave them a shot, THEY blew it.

I'm sorry, but most of that is complete and utter **** mate. The only part of that I agree with is that no-one that wasn't part of the development of this game is in the wrong.

To say that this game was rushed...??? The game was first announced in October '08 and it's widely known that writers had been working on the game for 2 years previous to that. So that means, roughly, WoW was 2 years old. This game was not rushed, just conceived when the world of the MMO was a very different place to what it is now.

Saying that because you're a paying customer entitles you to a game that you deem by your own standards to be decent is ridiculous. I think SWTOR is a decent game and me and my mates that have only recently started playing it are having a good time playing it.

Also, saying 4 out of 5 people who paid full price have quit the game (source?) therefore makes it a bad game is also totally ridiculous. There's quite a lot of people who habitually go from one MMO to the next. They hoover up the content and then go onto the next one. These in my opinion aren't gamers, they're MMO players. They invariably probably end up back at WoW because that game has had practically 8 years to refine and iterate on itself.

If you think the game is so horrendously bad then don't play it anymore - and don't whinge on the forums of the game that you think is so bad. It's not even been out a year yet and there'll be an influx of players once it goes F2P.

The people I game with and myself are really enjoying it (maybe it's coz we've never played WoW and are primarily 360 gamers nowadays due to time constraints / family etc), just need to find a decent guild now!

All these companies need to wait till WoW just dies or realize it isn't very likely that too many people will leave one MMO they have played for years to start off fresh in another. That isn't reasonable. With that factor kept in mind I still call SWToR a success and I think with some persistance it has room to really grow a lot.

Edit: I need to add this.

Stop the damn forum QQ. Chasing away any chance of getting new people or former players to come to the game. It is bad enough I know atleast 20 people that went back to WoW. They had over 7 years in the game like me though. So I can't blame them. It was hard for me but I am happy here playing SWToR.

Also, saying 4 out of 5 people who paid full price have quit the game (source?) therefore makes it a bad game is also totally ridiculous. There's quite a lot of people who habitually go from one MMO to the next. They hoover up the content and then go onto the next one. These in my opinion aren't gamers, they're MMO players. They invariably probably end up back at WoW because that game has had practically 8 years to refine and iterate on itself.

I agree with lots of what you said and particularly this bit about the locusts of the the MMO community apart from their reasons for going back to WoW.

I honeslty believe that they return to WoW after devouring 'the next big MMO' not because they think it's a particularly good game, else why would they be looking elswhere? They return simply because it is the game they are familiar with and feel comfortable in, complete with their multiple max level characers that they have invested an inordinate amount of time developing and guildies that they have spent many months/years with ************ about WoW.

Any new MMO would have to be something out of this world to keep their attention in any great numbers for any real length of time, if that was even possible!

Don't get me wrong I know this game has its faults and they will be the reason that a lot of players left the game but a noticalbe number of them will have came and went just following this MMO locust culture.

The poison and bile that was spit out of many of our forum-goers early on in this game's life was, sadly, expected for me.

 

I think that many of them may have been on the forums in many other games, sptting their poison there before they left:

 

WAR

Rift

Aion

GW2 -- very recent

 

It has become common for forums to be crowded with people "unhappy" with their playing experience within a month of getting the game, and many of them are former WoW players who expected the game to be as polished as their beloved Panda-Land (not always the case, I started with WoW, but have never really complained about any other MMOs)

 

I believe it wasn't the "mediocrity" of this game that "ruined" it, it was the ignorant, entitled players themselves. This game is great. It is like KOTOR 3, with multiplayer. There are a lot of people that would argue with me, but it is my strong opinion that SW:TOR is one of the best MMO's out there right now, even surpassing WoW in qaulity of gameplay. (I went back to WoW for a couple days, it was boring and the gameplay was absolutely stale, questing made me want to gouge out my eyes)

Completely agree - saw it in WAR and also was there reading general chat facepalming my self in January 2012 as people were complaining they had played TOR like it was a Asian MMO in which they had power grind'ed the game like it was 1999 to lvl 50, whilst "space barring" every conversation etc etc, only then to go and complain in chat its boring.

Also seeing people leave within the first 60 days quoting there isnt enough content etc etc was another odd moment.

To compare from memory TOR to World of Warcraft which had in its first year a down then big up in its first year (ending its first the year on a big high) but that was a different time where most MMO gamers today had never played a MMO and become attached, I personally think that gamers then were more sympathetic possibly to what a MMO should be on an global level and not just from a personal perspective?

I would say that most MMO gamers today have played a MMO before and that causes us all problems with any new game especially ones that are just starting. Its hard to not compare to your last game and its successes through rose tinted glasses. WoW has been around now for some time and is still going - possibly the gamers we see out and about are not ready for the next big game but have not yet come to turns the old one has gone but still sleeps in the room next door? just my two penneth chaps.

I get so tired of people complaining every single update.

 

At least this publisher decides to update the game at all. I've been in MMORPG's where the company swears up and down for new content, and when it does finally come out, it's full of holes, highly exploitable glitches, and packed full of excuses as to why. (They once blamed China's different gaming culture. lolnope.)

 

Compared to all the stuff I've seen happen in the past, BioWare and EA have done a brilliant job here, considering how young this game is, and what they had to work with.

 

People who complain and throw tantrums every time there's an update, or EA doesn't release something they said would come out "LATER" (which means, later and not "in the next patch",) need to keep it to themselves, or just uninstall the game and leave. I'm glad there's a blacklisting funciton, because all the moaning and whining just drags down the mood in general and makes the game less fun to play.

 

I do personally believe it's more the fault of the players than the company.

I have highlighted something in your post.

I cannot be arsed to quote all the BW bigwigs talking about monthly/6 weekly updates, new content blah blah blah which we are yet to see.

As for the content that comes out, check the forums for 1.4 bugs

and as for other MMO that say LATER, replace that by "Soon". Check out this thread (the 2 BW posts, their timings etc)http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534412

blah blah..... just need to find a decent guild now!

tell me about how much experience you have had with SWTOR.

The problem with this game is it does not have a defined audience. It is too causal for end game raiders and too grindy/group oriented for casuals.

Some people are happy rolling alts and redoing solo missions and maybe pugging an odd flashpoint. They need more story. They dont care abt low populations coz for them its a Single player game with elements of multiplayer

Some people are endgame raiders. They have multiple alts too but want to do endgame will all of them. They are appaled by the lack of end game content, both pvp and pve, and are unhappy with the low pop on servers where they dont find enough people to run Ops with.

If BW/EA defined which segment they are catering too, atlease it will make it easy for them to pump out content for that segment and keep it happy, the other segment can leave. The biggest mistake SWTOR has made is being a jack of all trades, which has left nearly everyone unhappy.

And before you ask, I have been around since pre launch. Have experienced nearly all stories, cleared endgame pve on multiple toons. agreed i dont pvp much but still am in a guild that is PVP champs on my server and know that happens there. I am ok with this game and I pay my $15 a month, but I am disappointed by how good this could have been.

I stumbled on this thread out of boredom really, and then fascinated by the bickering between parties when the OP stated something to the effect that bickering and what-not caused this games demise.

I left off on page 5 and figured I would chime in as to why I think the game has lost a large portion of sub. This is my 2nd MMO, SWG the original (b4 the respec garbage) was my first. I wanted Kotor3, and I kind of got it with the 1-50. I have no interest in redoing a whole new character. I am beginning to get bored with the end game and the only reason I continue to play is to beat all the content of end game. There are others in my guild that this is their first MMO who also came for Kotor3, some of whom have already left because MMOs dont interest them.

I left SWG to play FPS's with a quick adrenalin fix, immediate gratification and requiring little amount of time commitment. I know a lot of my guild members switch from FPS to this because, well frankly, its STARWARS! But once the lightsaber/lightings get old, its just another time consuming MMO...... Its not a bad MMO I guess, havent really anything to compare it to, but it is an MMO. A lot of us came for the Kotor3 and sabers, not to live in lola land for the next 4 years.

On a side not, I started as a free to 15 player....so I see the value of the F2P model. I hope more people get longer enjoyment out of this game than I did. I am an American after all and enjoy instant gratification! I do wish the community a long lived game.

Yeah, these exact sorts of posts and complaints is a huge part of WoW's community too. Everybody has something to complain about. There is never enough content and classes are never perfectly balanced, every new patch ruins the game forever, ect. So I would not place too much weight on what all these timeless whiners complain about, some people are never happy.

Relax, It's just a video game, guys.

Yeah, these exact sorts of posts and complaints is a huge part of WoW's community too. Everybody has something to complain about. There is never enough content and classes are never perfectly balanced, every new patch ruins the game forever, ect. So I would not place too much weight on what all these timeless whiners complain about, some people are never happy.

 

Relax, It's just a video game, guys.

Well said, I tired of all the whiners in WOW and starting to here as well.

Well said, I tired of all the whiners in WOW and starting to here as well.

I actually think the haters have quietened over the last few months, I think it is no longer cool to hate on TOR, they seem to have moved on to GW2 lol

I would have said Feb through to May were the worst, some horrbile feeling flying around the forums for TOR then. Don't get me wrong there is still some negativity around but these day most of the 'complaint' threads seem to have valid content to them rather than "This game Sux" or "This game is big fail".

That was Bioware EA, not the fans fault, they were aiming squarely at it.

 

A bigger mistake though was so completely copying WoW. The should have copied the best stuff from at least SWG and DAoC/WAR too.

 

 

 

It will - especially if all it tries to be is The Elder World of Scrollcraft Online.

 

 

 

That's just plain silly. If they'd got RvR right things would have been much better, if they'd not released early (SWTOR shouldn't have been released till 1.2) things would also have been better. Again neither of those things were the fans fault, it was down to Bioware EA and EA higher-ups.

 

 

 

They've already said class stories are on a way back burner because of this issue.

 

 

 

Except they copied all the bits from WoW that ARE about getting 1 or 2 characters Uber.

 

I dunno why myself, again some of SWG good points would have added to alting a great deal.

I agree with this 100% but id like to add a few things,

SWG had the best pet system of ANY game I have ever played, unfortunately they nerfed it beyond rediculous and finally removed it.They should have had the hindsight to know people loved creature handlers, tkms and all of the stuff that made the masses flock to wow.

they tried to go in a different direction with swtor? to most it looks like they tried to make a quick buck, Why did wow get so big in the first place? thats a simple answer, all the players who hated trials of atlantis, the nge and everything else EA was doing at the time migrated to wow because it came along at the right time when all those things were happening.It wasnt that great, however it was better than what was being done to the games we were playing.

Alot put alot of hope into this game being better than wow, but as I sit here typing I am constantly reminded by this sony vaio i7 I payed all that money for that sony,ea and any company affiliated with them only care about the $$$$. this sony I own has spent more time off than it has on.It was warrantied yet they refused to fix it, recalled yet they refused to honor that and the thing wont even run a EA game.its why I no longer buy sony PC's they are overhyped and overpriced JUNK.The same is apparant of their games.

I preorder 2 copys of warhammer online, I live in america.They sent me Euro versions of it.The pre order codes they promised came a full freaking month AFTER the game opened up.Thats the service you can expect.And like the many not discussed MMO's like matrix online, mco etc..this ones doomed by such practices too.

For me, this game went wrong in only 1 department. LACK OF CUSTOMIZATION AND UNIQUENESS

- Everyone looks the same...

- Worst armor design in this game i've ever seen for a Star Wars title. It COULD NOT, look more like WoW. ONLY trooper's and some of the Bounty Hunter's outfits look star-warsy and iconic. EVERY OTHER Class' gear looks HORRIBLE. So bad, that I hope that one of the devs they fired was the guy who designed this stuff.

- You can't color armor pieces at all, let alone individually

- Extreme lack of armor/clothing appearance options

- Can't decide what weapon you want to wield. Can't be a pistoleer Commando or a rifleman Bounty hunter. Which is i think THE BIGGEST upset for me. Some people like sages class, but prefer a double bladed lightsaber. Horrible game design there.

- No sandbox elements of owning housing and items...can't do anything in your ship either. Not even color changes.

- VERY cookie cutter feel to talent-trees. Only 1 or 2 advanced classes are able to hybrid efficiently. Everyone else is 1 of 3 trees. Very boring.

...blah, I could go on and on for hours.

We should not be allowed to complain about a lack of content for the entire first year.

I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you were one of the players that hit 50 in the first week, you shouldn't even be allowed to post on the forums, and if you complained about lack of an end game in that time frame, you should be permabanned with no second chances.

This is the first MMO of it's kind - story-heavy, fully-voiced content. That is what the majority of players liked the most in this game; the leveling and the story. Content like that is going to take more time to generate. And I certainly hope that's the kind of content that is consistently generated, because if not, F2P or not, this game will fall even further than it has in terms of sub count.

This game is not about having one character and getting better and better and better gear (that's actually what I detest most about MMO's). No, the Legacy system was built around re-rolling once you hit 50, to experience another story, and the Legacy system gave you options to have a small leg-up with a new character.

A bit dramatic for my tastes, but I agree with the spirit of the sentiment. Nothing makes me want to apply my forehead to my desk quite like people complaining that any new MMO doesn't have all the content and features of an MMO that's been out for three or four years, or longer.

I also feel inclined to share a post by the user "DrSnerkles1" made on Massively that touches on this. The text in the quotation marks at the very beginning is text quoted from the article to which he was responding.

Feeling pain because the game should have been released at a later patch date is just carrying excess baggage imho. I personally lost nothing between release and 1.3 when RWZs were implemented (loved 1.2's customizable UI) , but did gain a front row seat to the game's evolution. Besides the new players could not give a rat's arse about how the game launched because what the game is and has now is all they care about.

From an expectation standpoint, a good chunk of the gaming planet (not just the SWTOR community) freely speculated on what a wildly speculated initial price tag would bring. In five years I wouldn't be surprised if Facebook became a rant target because their platform won't handle the level of F2P multiplayer games the instant gratification customers they helped spawn want to play.

MMOs from here on out will have a rough time justifying to the gaming public any design or development decision they make because everyone has (or pretends to have) a microscope now.

I think I had two big problems with the game, both caused by my incessant Altoholism.

1) You will always level in the same places. There are no alternate zones, there are no Optional planets. There are bonus series, but in general you will do the same planets in the same order. Always.

2) The legacy system stymied my alts. Because so much of it is gated by huge costs and not just simple unlocks I had to more carefully plan out what alts I wanted bonuses on. Did I want to drop 500k on a character for faster levelling just to experience the story? I would make the money back over it's lifetime sure, but that's a big dent in the wallet of someone who also goes out to purchase Legacy armors along with gearing his own characters for various tasks at 50 (You may not believe it, but I've played since before open beta and still have only ever completed a single raid, HM KP).

I realize I'm not everyone of course! I'm not good at collecting large sums of money or knocking out content, but I love the stories. I took a month break or so to test out GW2 (Imagine my disappointment at the corpse running zergfest dungeons and the sad matter of only getting cosmetic gear at the maximum level. I can't even make past content easier because of level adjustments! Still a fun and pretty casual game though), but now I'm back and must say I've missed TOR. I missed the plight of a quest giver, or the dramatic tempo in the background as my Sith rises in power, or thematic pull at my heartstrings as I must confess the truth to a new widow. It just...has that fun factor. We may get burnt out and wander off.....but I think I'll still come back to TOR as long as pulse beats in the servers.

....too bad my server is sparsely populated! Even then, I shall endure with my guildmates!

leveling was/is too fast. And getting endgame gear is way too fast. removing tioneese and columi coms would help. As it stands you will get full columi in a week with only a couple of hard FP each day. Then what. Much of the comunity get their endgame gear from FP and pvp. Not from OP´s. Maybe they´re not in a guild, maybe the just dont like the big group thing.

So, after a week at lv 50 you got your columi set, now what ?? Now the game is still fun, but the challenge from hardmode has left. You outgear hardmode now so dooing FP´s has no challenge. So you level an alt. Rinse repeat.

Making Nightmare mode for FP to get rakata might help, since the jump between columi and rakata is much smaller than from tioneese to columi. So the challenge would probably stay reasonable even for fully rakata geared players.

But stop with all the comendations. At least let people gain coms, much slower. Only 1 each FP on the endboss e.x.

The thing that for me seems most disapointing is the daily quests. Why no class daily and companon daily. Each class should have had at least one random daily quest of 5 or so. The class leader gets absolutely silent after you complete story. Same with companons. One daily quest pr. companon is that too much to ask. Then we could get one random companon and one random classquest each day. An extra companon quest if your courting.

Also, the unfinished feel of some things. Not beeing able to sit on chairs in bars seems strange. Barkeeper not selling drinks(at least no alcholic drinks) the sleep emote keeps you standing, no sound on emotes. Sleep ofc should have no sound, but why not let me say hello when i type /hello.

Perfection is in the detail. Not in a wast endgame experience. More content wont make me happy, more attention to detail might. When the reward for running FP makes you outgear content it´s poor design imo. When emotes are only half finished it´s poor design imo. When the chair in restareas cant be sat on it´s poor design imo, especially since you can sit in your chair on spaceship.

Most of this, if not all, have been pointet out a gazillion times before. That doesn´t make it less true. It´s not the comunity´s fault if they point out flaws in the game. It´s a big plus to a mmo to have a comunity that shows what they like and what could be improved. It´s the job of game developers to keep the comunity happy (or the comunity will leave) That can be done in many ways, but stonewalling the comunity is not one of them.

Ofc Dev. shouldn´t respond to every complaint, but at least a little attention to suggestion forum would be apreciated. One or maybe two posts each day doesn´t seem too much to ask. Imo it would pay off. The comunity would feel they have been taken serious and maybe get something to look foreward to from the responses. That might have kept some from canselling subscription. If only a few it doesn´t take that many to make a half an hour spent on forums each day pay off.

Sorry follk, this ended much longer than intended. The point is mainly this. If were to blame for anything it´s too high expectations. The rest is the EA/BW. It´s EA/BW´s job so selll the game, but imo they oversold it. They made promisses they couldn´t keep. Maybe they made them in good faith. Maybe they realy believed they could keep their promisses. But when they couldn´t they should have been more open to us. They should have at least said, sorry we made a promiss we couldn´t keep. Then make a new more realistic promiss and made an effort to keep that.

I'm curious about the leveling too fast argument.

There are 13 different planets, each with a class quest, a planetary quest, optional side quests and sometimes bonus series. The idea is you're at max level you've finished them.

The main way to "slow down" leveling would be to reduce the XP per quest, or increase the XP required per level. So then what happens:

1. You would have to fight more trash mobs to level

2. You would have to do more optional quests to level

and/or

3. You would need more planets with more content to have quests to level

Fighting a ton more trash? Urg. I also like that I can skip optional quests, so I can see different content as I level alts. Alt #2 I skipped Taris, Alt #3 I skipped Alderaan, etc. Asking for more content is a reasonable suggestion, but honestly, there is quite a bit of single-player content. It's the end-game content this game is lacking.

From my own perspective, I like the pace of the leveling experience. There are 8 class stories, I've finished 4 of them, I'm redoing one as dark side, and I have 4 more started. If it took 2-3 times as long to level my characters, I would probably be unhappy about it.

1. WoW is dead. Just because you have a handfull of diehard tools that refuse to give up on that lame game even when it was turned into panda pokamon doesnt mean its alive. I liken WoW to a walking dead zombie. Its mindless skillless and stinks like a rotting body.

You are right WoW did kill itself and I glad it did.

I just dont get it. Did anyone even play WoW. I am sorry but lame progaming glitch enrage timers and lame boss mechs dont make a game fun they make it lame cause its lazy.

It's a delicate balance.

Ideally an MMO is a 'something for everyone' affair (unless billed otherwise). That means anyone who is all about the leveling and doing end game will always run out of content much faster than it can be provided, just as anyone who only concentrates on one aspect of the game is going to run that content into the ground well before new content arrives. That does not necessarily mean they get bored with the game or the content, although odds are good that this will be the case.

I agree that leveling in TOR is quite fast. Too fast? That's something of a judgement call. Even with other MMOs from which to learn lessons, nothing beats experience. BioWare is still learning and I can live with that. Sure, I would love to see some additional planets/zones added to take the sting out of leveling alts (although I ended up with six 50s before I decided to slow down). However, having experienced some other MMOs, including some years after launch, it is a /headdesk moment for me when people pipe up demanding new leveling experiences when the game hasn't even been live for a year.

These are the same people who are being hounded for more operations, flashpoints, armor/equipment variety, increased armor customization, fluff (pazaak, pod races, etc.), new races, new planets, new warzones, arenas, guild ships, player housing, and dozens of other things. Even if they had a team twice as large as WoW (that'd be well over 300 people), there are only so many hours in the day.