Buy orders are a part of nearly all MMO's but here in SWTOR, 2.5 years in, we still don't have them. Why? WE obviously have a use for them here and its a useful option to have. Instead we have people vending items they can't sell because two parties which may never be on at the same time, can't communicate.

What if the one thing I want is only currently being made by one guy anymore and he plays at a time I don't? He can't peddle his wares and I can't purchase them. This has got to be remedied. Sure, there can be downsides in buy orders, but no more than in sell orders and they can be designed in a way which limits their abuse. Of course, these designs may limit their usefulness but better to have limited use buy orders than none at all.

What is the community's opinion on the subject and what I've written.

I would have thought introducing 'Buy Orders' would have allowed those with vast reserves of credits to dominate and shut out other traders.

A couple of simple solutions to the issue...

1) Put out a request on the server forums for crafters that can make the stuff you are looking for. (Or even in guild, I bet there are many crafters with heaps of low level materials and schematics that don't view them as profitable to craft on a regular basis but would be willing to for a fellow guildie)

2) Increase the sell time on the GTN. 2 Days is good enough for me in general, most items I place sell within the first 24 hours, those that don't don't tend to sell full stop.

I would have thought introducing 'Buy Orders' would have allowed those with vast reserves of credits to dominate and shut out other traders.

 

A couple of simple solutions to the issue...

 

1) Put out a request on the server forums for crafters that can make the stuff you are looking for. (Or even in guild, I bet there are many crafters with heaps of low level materials and schematics that don't view them as profitable to craft on a regular basis but would be willing to for a fellow guildie)

 

2) Increase the sell time on the GTN. 2 Days is good enough for me in general, most items I place sell within the first 24 hours, those that don't don't tend to sell full stop.

1) Most players never ever goes to the forums.

Also as soon as you require players to go out of the game to do something related to the game you are doing it wrong. The goal is to keep them entertained in game!

2) Even 7 days listing would not solve the issue.

Most of the gear aren't worth the effort of crafting them unless you are the crafted and want the gear.

In the end the crafters don't bother making items few people want or even know they are existing.

The OP solution seems very good to me. I know it's not that easy to implement but the concept is great.

I would have thought introducing 'Buy Orders' would have allowed those with vast reserves of credits to dominate and shut out other traders.

Nope, buy orders would have to have limits like only being able to set up orders for a certain amount of goods at one time. For example, You could set up a buy order for 99 mcguffins, but the buyer could only get that money when the buy order was completely filled or what was left expired and only have one order up at a time for that specific mcguffin. You couldn't for example put up a buy order for more than one of a particular speeder because that item isn't stack-able. Buy orders shouldn't be about letting someone corner a market but about helping two or more parties get together.

1) Put out a request on the server forums for crafters that can make the stuff you are looking for. (Or even in guild, I bet there are many crafters with heaps of low level materials and schematics that don't view them as profitable to craft on a regular basis but would be willing to for a fellow guildie)

Forums are nice but not everyone goes there or will even see your request. This ability has always existed and it hasn't made a dent in the issue and you should never have to leave a game for something that should be in it.

2) Increase the sell time on the GTN. 2 Days is good enough for me in general, most items I place sell within the first 24 hours, those that don't don't tend to sell full stop.

Increases to GTN selling time starts to slow down the GTN and searches. It also does nothing to solve the problem of assisting you to find a crafter or seller or bring down the number of WTB messages in gen chat.

In the end, Buy Orders are about "see a need, fill a need". Bioware needs to take a lesson from that and fill this need for Buy Orders.

Increases to GTN selling time starts to slow down the GTN and searches.

Considering how big and fast could be DB cluster, it's not much of an issue for a healthy game.

Now would you do select distinct SQL queries it would not load the system that much and would only display say, the less expensive entry for each item.

Considering how big and fast could be DB cluster, it's not much of an issue for a healthy game.

 

Now would you do select distinct SQL queries it would not load the system that much and would only display say, the less expensive entry for each item.

I'm not against increasing sell times, but that only solves the problem of having to put you junk up for sale more often and not the issue at hand.

I say give us personal shops in our strongholds. Pay a certain premium in credits to have said shop open when offline for days or even weeks. It would also make strongholds a much better prospect for us who don't really require them , under the current non shop planed strongholds. Another credit sink , o and have a notice board for certain orders etc.

Yes , yes I know it does sound like PSU .

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I say give us personal shops in our strongholds. Pay a certain premium in credits to have said shop open when offline for days or even weeks. It would also make strongholds a much better prospect for us who don't really require them , under the current non shop planed strongholds. Another credit sink , o and have a notice board for certain orders etc.

 

Yes , yes I know it does sound like PSU .

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

I don't think a person's stronghold will be accessible without the owner there. I mean each one will be an instance like ships and there isn't a way to board someone else's ship without them there.

I don't think a person's stronghold will be accessible without the owner there. I mean each one will be an instance like ships and there isn't a way to board someone else's ship without them there.

O that would be a shame , in PSU we had a separate side room where the shop would be and you could lock your shop/room for privacy with a 4 digit numbered code. It was just a pipe dream really but if they would implement something like that it would keep me playing SWTOR until my grave or it shuts down. O and you had a search engine from a console in your shop and then once you found an item you wanted you just zoned in to their shop / room to purchase said item.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I like the idea.

Buy orders sound benign on the surface... but they would introduce some very bad mechanics in the way the economy works in this game. What do I mean? Players, being clever little rodents in general, would find ways to use it to exploit and manipulate the market. It's a common practice in other MMOs where it is used and becomes it's own form of PvP in most cases.

I'm not saying it's evil or anything.. only that it represents an exploitation window into an otherwise stable and largely unexploited player economy. If players would all behave and use it as intended...no harm, no foul, but we all know that that is NOT how players play MMOs.

Note: there are also no bidding in SWTORs GTN either.. and it makes for a crisp and tiddy trading economy IMO (and I play the economy every day in this game). There is also no addons/plug-ins allowed in this game, which means everyone plays on the same level playing field in the Market. These are good things IMO.

I'm not against increasing sell times, but that only solves the problem of having to put you junk up for sale more often and not the issue at hand.

Totally agree, but it would really help managing sales. Then I'd go with a repost item.

Would be convenient.

The actual system is very annoying to use and well one really needs credits to use it.

in PSU we had a separate side room where the shop would be and you could lock your shop/room for privacy with a 4 digit numbered code. It was just a pipe dream really but if they would implement something like that it would keep me playing SWTOR until my grave or it shuts down. O and you had a search engine from a console in your shop and then once you found an item you wanted you just zoned in to their shop / room to purchase said item.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

SWG had this 11 years ago...

Well along the ability to send email from your datapad too and many other things... plus bugs

Buy orders sound benign on the surface... but they would introduce some very bad mechanics in the way the economy works in this game. What do I mean? Players, being clever little rodents in general, would find ways to use it to exploit and manipulate the market. It's a common practice in other MMOs where it is used and becomes it's own form of PvP in most cases.

Can you give an example of how buy orders are used to exploit, manipulate the market, and become it's own form of PvP?

Can you give an example of how buy orders are used to exploit, manipulate the market, and become it's own form of PvP?

Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.

As for PvP....anyone who plays the markets in MMOs at all knows full well what I mean by economic PvP, so I don't believe that requires more explanation or example.

Don't get me wrong... as a market player myself, I would enjoy buy orders, but the reality is I see the harm they do (vs the good they offer). This comes down to the core issue ---> players can and will manipulate anything and everything they can find that can be manipulated.

Also, buy-orders encourage credit farmers/sellers, and I personally do not want to see mechanics added that make their efforts easier.

Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.

Is this somehow worse than sell orders?

Buy orders are a part of nearly all MMO's.

Yes. Buy orders are commonly used by market players to move markets up/down on command in MMOs where they are allowed. They are an integral component to manipulating prices to advantage, and sometimes to specifically disadvantage other players. Further, they are most harmful when used by "silent" cartels to move the market around.

 

As for PvP....anyone who plays the markets in MMOs at all knows full well what I mean by economic PvP, so I don't believe that requires more explanation or example.

 

Don't get me wrong... as a market player myself, I would enjoy buy orders, but the reality is I see the harm they do (vs the good they offer). This comes down to the core issue ---> players can and will manipulate anything and everything they can find that can be manipulated.

 

Also, buy-orders encourage credit farmers/sellers, and I personally do not want to see mechanics added that make their efforts easier.

Well, like I said, you would need to design it in a way to limit those issues to a minimum. That said, players exploit everything, but you can't restrain new avenues of play and thought some people are jerks, you just have to think ahead and correct along the way.

On the other hand, Economic PVP can also be a good thing as it adds new challenges and creates clever ways of moving goods and making profit, I'm not against that. I'm not talking about going spreadsheets in space like EVE, but a little back and forth can be a good thing.

Is this somehow worse than sell orders?

Sell orders tend to be self limiting due to dynamic player competition. Buy orders are more complex and as such inject new degrees of freedom to exploit. But the real harm is the combination of the two in one market. I'm not saying it would be impossible to add buy orders to the GTN.. just that it would be quite difficult to do so in a manner that prevents exploitation of market prices.

Buy orders simply inject more issues into a player economy then the conveniences they provide for players.

The GTN is crisp and straightforward as currently implemented. It still needs some QoL features for listing, filtering searches, etc.... but it does not need Buy orders.

Which of the top 10 mmorpgs have buy orders?

I have no earthly clue. I haven't played any other MMO's in 2 and a half years. Before that, I played a few and they did have them, so I imagine its a part of all the best ones right?

Are you interested in discrediting my viewpoint by way of misspoken proxy?

I have no earthly clue. I haven't played any other MMO's in 2 and a half years. Before that, I played a few and they did have them, so I imagine its a part of all the best ones right?

I'm pretty shure WoW doesn't have buy orders.

I'm pretty shure WoW doesn't have buy orders.

Insert negative comment disregarding WoW as an example of what's right in MMO's here. --->

But the real harm is the combination of the two in one market.

Just so you know, I'm not lobbying on behalf of buy orders, and not having any experience in an MMO with buy orders, I'm not trying to say they're good.

But your claim is rather bold and a bit alarmist. And frankly, I'm trying to get a better understanding of why you think this is so.

Can you give some specific examples of how having both is harmful?

Insert negative comment disregarding WoW as an example of what's right in MMO's here. --->

You're the one saying Buy orders were apart of nearly every mmo and then you turned around and said

I have no earthly clue. I haven't played any other MMO's in 2 and a half years. Before that, I played a few and they did have them, so I imagine its a part of all the best ones right?

 

Are you interested in discrediting my viewpoint by way of misspoken proxy?

Talk about false information.

Can you give some specific examples of how having both is harmful?

I have been as specific as I intend to be. I am not going to provide the cliff notes for how to manipulate the GTN through various buy/sell mechanics. If a player or group of players works it out on their own.. so be it.. but I'm not feeding the negative propensities of players to behave badly inside an MMO by providing strangers the data they need to do so.

You are free to dismiss my comments if you like, but as a person who does play markets in MMOs that I play, I can assure you that it is very unwise to underestimate the veracity of players to exploit anything and everything in an MMO. Different MMOs take different approaches to try to mitigate this of course, but the most common is to limit the ability of players to work the market through price fixing. Sell orders or buy orders by themselves are fine, but combining them into a single market is an invitation to players destroying the natural stability of the player markets. A simple review of world commodities markets (which do work under buy/sell mechanics, and are the closest real world equivalent to what is being begged for here) should amply illustrate the human propensity to manipulate anything for profit.