But in the void, you can not propagate lightening. Certainly you can propel things through the space like plasma. But lightning needs an origin and an end. So if a sith is not Zeus, he can´t fling bolts in space.

Sure it will have an origin and an end ... the origin is the Sith creating it and the end is their target.

So, obviously, the mechanics of a Sith Lightning bolt are not 100% the same as our universe - otherwise it would hit random conductors in the area rather than your target ("Damn it Luke, can you hold this metal pole while I try and fry you? It keeps arcing over to the antenna ..."). So they aren't just creating a positive charge at their fingertips and pointing in roughly the right direction.

Which implies that the process of getting a bolt from here to there must in some way involve creating a large negative charge at the target point and a large positive charge on their fingertips.

That being the case, that Sith are using the force to create a charge difference between two distinct points, then sure ... they can create lightning in space.

Is there any particular reason why Jacen ends up in a Christian hell while everybody else gets away with a sort of Gehenna or Naraka? Why is one person being singled out for eternal damnation when that is not how it works normally? It seems like Denning hates Jacen so much that he breaks his own cartoonish rules for the SW afterlife just to see that Jacen never finds peace.

 

I should read FOTJ before I can engage in a real conversation about this, I know, but it just sounds so crappy.

Jacen Solo wasn't the only person in that place Tarfang.

Also note:

Jacen Solo betrayed himself, tried to turn Ben Skywalker to the Dark Side. Tortured Ben Skywalker, his own nephew, who trusted him to teach him how to be a Jedi. He tried to murder Luke Skywalker. He did murder Mara Jade Skywalker, his own aunt. He tried to murder his own wife and the mother of his children. He lied to his daughter telling her that her mother was dead. He destroyed the mind of his wife/lover's mother. He ordered the execution and assassination of his own parents. He used torture on civilians. He murdered numerous people for no reason in the course of LotF. He manipulated Tahiri into assassinating Gillian Paleon by dangling a false hope that she could be with his own deceased nephew, Anakin Solo, for a few minutes at a time. He started a civil war within the Galactic Alliance. He turned the Galactic Alliance into a complete mirror of the Nazi forces of World War II, he even made the Galactic Alliance Guard a form of the Gestapo.

He sort of deserved the penalty he got.

Jacen Solo wasn't the only person in that place Tarfang.

 

Also note:

Jacen Solo betrayed himself, tried to turn Ben Skywalker to the Dark Side. Tortured Ben Skywalker, his own nephew, who trusted him to teach him how to be a Jedi. He tried to murder Luke Skywalker. He did murder Mara Jade Skywalker, his own aunt. He tried to murder his own wife and the mother of his children. He lied to his daughter telling her that her mother was dead. He destroyed the mind of his wife/lover's mother. He ordered the execution and assassination of his own parents. He used torture on civilians. He murdered numerous people for no reason in the course of LotF. He manipulated Tahiri into assassinating Gillian Paleon by dangling a false hope that she could be with his own deceased nephew, Anakin Solo, for a few minutes at a time. He started a civil war within the Galactic Alliance. He turned the Galactic Alliance into a complete mirror of the Nazi forces of World War II, he even made the Galactic Alliance Guard a form of the Gestapo.

 

He sort of deserved the penalty he got.

That was Darth Caedus, not Jacen Solo, the difference in character is obvious, the Dark Side clearly corrupted his mind beyond anything he used to be.

That was Darth Caedus, not Jacen Solo, the difference in character is obvious, the Dark Side clearly corrupted his mind beyond anything he used to be.

Unfortunately while true, from a certain point of view, the two beings are one and the same. Jacen Solo is Darth Caedus. He is still responsible for Caedus' actions because he was the one that chose to listen to Vergere and later Lumiya. He rejected the Jedi teachings and the Jedi Code and believed that he was strong enough to use the Dark Side without succumbing to the Dark Side. Jacen Solo is responsible for the actions of Darth Caedus and he did not redeem himself or reject the Dark Side before his end as Anakin Skywalker did.

Jacen Solo wasn't the only person in that place Tarfang.

 

Also note:

Jacen Solo betrayed himself, tried to turn Ben Skywalker to the Dark Side. Tortured Ben Skywalker, his own nephew, who trusted him to teach him how to be a Jedi. He tried to murder Luke Skywalker. He did murder Mara Jade Skywalker, his own aunt. He tried to murder his own wife and the mother of his children. He lied to his daughter telling her that her mother was dead. He destroyed the mind of his wife/lover's mother. He ordered the execution and assassination of his own parents. He used torture on civilians. He murdered numerous people for no reason in the course of LotF. He manipulated Tahiri into assassinating Gillian Paleon by dangling a false hope that she could be with his own deceased nephew, Anakin Solo, for a few minutes at a time. He started a civil war within the Galactic Alliance. He turned the Galactic Alliance into a complete mirror of the Nazi forces of World War II, he even made the Galactic Alliance Guard a form of the Gestapo.

 

He sort of deserved the penalty he got.

Cousin. Jacen and Ben were cousins. Just clarifying.

Cousin. Jacen and Ben were cousins. Just clarifying.

Oops, good catch. I could go back and fix that but yeah, had a mind slip there.

Regardless... It kind of shows just how evil Jacen Solo was. He was "EVIL" with a capital E, V, I, and L when he became Darth Caedus.

He sort of deserved the penalty he got.

But the question really was, why did the author feel fit to invent a christian-style hell when that had never been mentioned before in any other form? Sure he was a bad guy, and "deserved" a penalty, but bringing in something from our own mythology just so people can say "look dear, bad guys have a horrible time after they die so that's why you shouldn't be bad" seems a bit lame.

Up until this point did no other 'bad guy' ever do anything that wouldn't be considered evil? Seems unlikely.

But the question really was, why did the author feel fit to invent a christian-style hell when that had never been mentioned before in any other form? Sure he was a bad guy, and "deserved" a penalty, but bringing in something from our own mythology just so people can say "look dear, bad guys have a horrible time after they die so that's why you shouldn't be bad" seems a bit lame.

Up until this point did no other 'bad guy' ever do anything that wouldn't be considered evil? Seems unlikely.

Erm, we were first introduced to the concept of "damnation" for Dark Siders, and Sith especially, were in the Dark Empire series, in Empire's End. It was revealed that Sith would never give up their individuality when rejoining the Force. Thus the Force tears it away while the Sith tries to retain it. This turns into what to a Sith seems an eternal, and extremely painful, tug of war until the Sith/Dark Sider finally fails and their individuality and personality are destroyed.

We know eventually the outcome is the destruction of the individuality and personality but nothing ever said this happens instantly.

A Sith knows when they die they face one of two possible outcomes:

1. They will be consigned to oblivion. They will cease to be. Their memories, experiences, personality, and individuality will be destroyed.

2. They can anchor themselves as a wraith in the physical world suffering constant pain and agony. Eventually that anchor will erode and they will suffer fate number 1.

It always was a little icing on the cake and fits with the dichotomy of the Light and Dark Sides. The Dark Side is much faster and easier, but ultimately unrewarding and weaker. The Light Side is slower and much harder, but in the end much more powerful and the only way to reach true immortality.

The Force operates like a mirror, whatever you do it does the equal opposite.

If you try to make the Force serve you, the Force makes you serve it.

If you seek to bind the Force to your will, the Force binds you to its will.

If you seek to control the Force, the Force will control you.

That is the fate of Sith.

In the end they try to retain their individuality and power, so the Force takes that individuality and power.

A Jedi seeks to serve the Force, thus the Force seeks to serve the Jedi.

A Jedi allows the Force to control their actions, thus the Force listens to the Jedi's commands.

A Jedi does not try to hold onto their personality, individuality, and power. Thus the Force does not take them and instead grants the Jedi ultimate power.

Being Sith, following the Dark Side, might seem better in the short run but in the long run it is a major folly.

But the question really was, why did the author feel fit to invent a christian-style hell when that had never been mentioned before in any other form? Sure he was a bad guy, and "deserved" a penalty, but bringing in something from our own mythology just so people can say "look dear, bad guys have a horrible time after they die so that's why you shouldn't be bad" seems a bit lame.

Denning likes to leave his mark.

@ProfessorWalsh None of what you mentioned from Dark Empire justifies Jacen's damnation and his seeming inabilty to do anything about it, even though he knows he is damned, right? Sith binding themselves to the physical world upon death because they don't want to let go is different, those ghosts could be redeemed, they could learn to let go, like Ajunta Pall.

This idea of being damned forever is too absolute and it sounds like a judgement, it doesn't make sense to me to think of the Force as capable of passing judgement. You could say Jacen's fate is a natural consequence of his actions and doesn't require a Judge but that just seems like a cheap way to get an exclusively Christian/Muslim idea into a fictional concept that doesn't suit it.

@ProfessorWalsh None of what you mentioned from Dark Empire justifies Jacen's damnation and his seeming inabilty to do anything about it, even though he knows he is damned, right? Sith binding themselves to the physical world upon death because they don't want to let go is different, those ghosts could be redeemed, they could learn to let go, like Ajunta Pall.

 

This idea of being damned forever is too absolute and it sounds like a judgement, it doesn't make sense to me to think of the Force as capable of passing judgement. You could say Jacen's fate is a natural consequence of his actions and doesn't require a Judge but that just seems like a cheap way to get an exclusively Christian/Muslim idea into a fictional concept that doesn't suit it.

Have to agree here, if a Dark Lord the likes of Ajunta Pall can be redeemed, Darth Caedus can, his grandfather was, so can he.

Have to agree here, if a Dark Lord the likes of Ajunta Pall can be redeemed, Darth Caedus can, his father was, so can he.

Especially since, in the grand scheme of things, he was a really, really crappy Sith.

Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo did not go to Choas (hell) he went to the Netherworld (heaven), but the reason he was stuck in a form of damnation was his own doing.

Jedi let go completely, Jacen let go of everything except his regret/sorrow.

So he is an eternal force ghost (like Kenobi and Anakin), but he eternally feels regret and sorrow for his past actions because he did not let them go.

You also have to remember that Jacen is an oddity because he became one with the force before he died (before he even became Sith). Therefore theoretically he already had the power and connection to become a force ghost long before he died.

Have to agree here, if a Dark Lord the likes of Ajunta Pall can be redeemed, Darth Caedus can, his grandfather was, so can he.

Ajunta Pall could only be redeemed because Pall became a Force Wraith and was able to be talked into rejecting the Dark Side and turning to the Light before he became one with the Force. Jacen Solo never had that chance because he didn't become a Force Wraith.

also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Just thought you should know, your link goes to a weird place

Just thought you should know, your link goes to a weird place

Yeah, that is the old link, it got nixed when they changed the forum over. We got most of the story off of those forums but one entire entry was lost to the sands of time:

New link is:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=3441

Also I went ahead and updated the link in my sig.

Jesus. It looks like hell to me. If this is the afterlife I would become sith and would search for inmortality by any means.

 

This is an extract:

"However, most Jedi including Yoda and Qui-Gon Jinn, believed that people who died and were not able to become Force ghosts lost their consciousness and individual identities and "became one with the Force."

 

What are they doing in the force ? Just staying..floating there ? Pretty depressing.

And what means "became one with the Force." Being force ?

Brains are like light switches. They are on or they are off. Once they are off you don't know what's happening because "You" are not there. You stopped existing, doing, feeling, sensing, and thinking when your brain shut off.

Through the mastery of the force you can create a pattern of energy which can continue the stream of your consciousness making a copy of "You" that is a reflection of what was happening in your brain.

Original "You" dies but a new "You" is created as a pattern in the force. So the original "You" is still lost.

In conclusion; if you need to ask this question, sucks to be you because you are doomed.