1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

EDIT:

There seem to be recurring themes in the responses.

1) Go back to wow.

2) If you're fighting 14,000 versus 1 obviously your going to die.

3) Set your ability queue to 0 seconds in the options menu.

4) Swtor has slower combat. 1.5s global cooldown is different than standard 1s global cooldown.

Responses

1) I haven't played wow for 5 years. I don't plan on going back. It had many of it's own problems. I appreciated it's fluidity and responsiveness. In the pursuit of having an intelligent conversation I made up the term WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) so that people could continue having the conversation without have to say "Well this amorphous thing that I can't quite describe regarding the game not being responsive and fluid to play and sometimes when I use things it takes time but other times things happen that I pressed a while ago but I" and you get the point. It's meant to improve the dialogue not to detract from it. Stop focusing on the fact that the word world of warcraft appears in it.

2) The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

3) Firstly I, and anyone else of average intelligence, has already gone through the menus searching for answers. We have done and tried this in addition to many other things. You are not special for mentioning it. Secondly it doesn't help. Ability queueing deals with spells queuing while your on global cooldown. It does not deal with the responsiveness of spells activating when your not on global cooldown which is the central issue.

4) Responsiveness and fluidity has n-o-t-h-i-n-g to do with combat speed or how long global cooldowns are. Stop conflating these topics please it distracts from the dialogue.

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

 

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP.

 

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

2. agree

3. agree

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....

Thank God it wasn't just me:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=51159

That's my thread about the topic. I think, collectively, we make a really good argument.

Totally agree on the part about CC being stupid in this game. It really is unfair when some classes (Inquisitor/Sage) have CC in the form of straight up stuns and slows, and an Agent/Smuggler for example have a snare (that is completely mitigated by server/lag/crappy engine) and a 4 second stun with an INCREDIBLE cooldown.

game needs to be tweaked hardcore.

1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

 

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

 

2. agree

 

3. agree

 

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....

1 - I'm sorry but...I'm trying not to be mean here but there are those of us that are actually really good at PvP and it is entirely game breaking when....you can't play the game.

1. agree though not gamebreaking...i think some of this has to do with timing....and a lot of ppl have gotten used to the 1.5 sec gcd yet

 

are spells Q'd? ive noticed that things i hit a while ago are still going off when im trying to cc or break a cc but i cant because its still running through spells i hit several seconds ago

 

2. agree

 

3. agree

 

4. def agree but could work its self out at 50 just dont know yet....

The spells are queued. You can select in the interface settings the window you want them to queue. I believe you can set anywhere between 0 and 1.5 seconds.

Setting the queue window to 0 seconds (no queueing) still has very poor responsiveness.

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

this x1000

1) The WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) is a 6/10 at best. It is incredibly frustrating to go through your spell rotation even in a PVE scenario only to find out that 1/2 of the spells didn't go off because of poor responsiveness. This will push pvper's away from this game fast if not addressed. You see it as the number one concern time and time again as was demonstrated in games like AOC & Warhammer Online that had particularly bad WOWFARM ratings.

 

2) Status notifications are non-existant. Whether you're snared, rooted, stunned or otherwise impaired most spells don't have obvious status indicators. This would go a long way toward improving the WOWFARM score in and of itself.

 

3) Targeting is made difficult by small selection collision boxes. You have to be extremely exacting in clicking on a target. This problem exists in PVE but is more of an issue in PVP. The indicators for your selected target are also pretty poor. In a group of people it's often hard to tell which one you've actually targeted.

 

4) There is too much cc. No matter what class you are, if you've done any pvp, you know all about getting locked and rocked in this game. It's worse even than it was in AOC and that's saying something. A cc breaking skill with a long cooldown and no sustained cc immunity does not fix this problem.

1) Can't say I've experienced this myself. I haven't had a problem with abilities not responding fast enough.

2) Status notifications are not non-existant. There are icons above your health bar that tell you what active effects are on your character.

3) Agree 100%. This is especially evident in hutball when trying to cc the ball carrier when they are in a group of people. I often end up cc'ing the wrong person.

4) I don't think there is too much cc, but I see what you're getting at. A cc immunity after being cc'ed for around 3-5 seconds would fix this problem. It isn't that people have too many cc abilities, it's just that players are getting smarter and learning to chain CC by waiting for the current CC to finish before using another one.

On a side note, I've never taken PvP seriously in other MMO's I've played. I just did it casually when I wasn't raiding. I didn't sub to SWTOR for its PvP either, I planned on focusing on PvE.

I was surprised to find then that I've been doing more PvP than anything else. I think the rewards are perfect, and the BG's are very well designed. Hutball is very innovative, and the other 2 BG's were done well. Overall PvP is very good, it just needs some minor tweaking.

On a side note, I've never taken PvP seriously in other MMO's I've played. I just did it casually when I wasn't raiding. I didn't sub to SWTOR for its PvP either, I planned on focusing on PvE.

I was sketchy reading your first paragraph then that killed it. I'm sure, you don't sound good enough in PvP to be commenting on so intricate of a problem.

I have no issues with fluidity. I am as in control of my actions as I can imagine. But I never played wow. Only daoc, aoc, aion, warhammer, and darkfall.

lol then no wonder you feel like SWTOR is in any stretch of the imagination GOOD in that department.

WoW is a terribly boring/ mind numbingly grindy game - but the engine is incredible. Not only can you actually reduce the GCD to a very short time (or reduce it period), but its responsiveness is unmatched.

1) Can't say I've experienced this myself. I haven't had a problem with abilities not responding fast enough.

2) Status notifications are not non-existant. There are icons above your health bar that tell you what active effects are on your character.

3) Agree 100%. This is especially evident in hutball when trying to cc the ball carrier when they are in a group of people. I often end up cc'ing the wrong person.

4) I don't think there is too much cc, but I see what you're getting at. A cc immunity after being cc'ed for around 3-5 seconds would fix this problem. It isn't that people have too many cc abilities, it's just that players are getting smarter and learning to chain CC by waiting for the current CC to finish before using another one.

 

On a side note, I've never taken PvP seriously in other MMO's I've played. I just did it casually when I wasn't raiding. I didn't sub to SWTOR for its PvP either, I planned on focusing on PvE.

I was surprised to find then that I've been doing more PvP than anything else. I think the rewards are perfect, and the BG's are very well designed. Hutball is very innovative, and the other 2 BG's were done well. Overall PvP is very good, it just needs some minor tweaking.

1) I believe you and the other people that have reported no problems with the responsiveness. You also have to believe those of us that say there is a problem with it though. I'm not sure if there is a different use case between those of us having problems (ie: spamming too quickly, not using the queueing mechanism properly) or if it's merely just system dependent.

2) You honestly have to take me for a fool if you don't think I know the buff/debuff icons exist. These are not replacements for above character in-world status displays.

3) On the topic of hutball it's also an issue when trying, oh I don't know, to throw the ball to someone.

4) I didn't say there was too much cc at level 12 or 14. I said there is too much cc going on period which takes into account people chaining their cc intelligently.

Agreed on all points. It's lightyears away from WoW's fluidity and IMHO it's also worse than Warhammer. At least I got my dwarf to 40 there before I got fed up.

I don't know how a ranged class plays, but with my Assassin pvp is no fun atm. Yeah I can gib people, but the overall feel is extremely clunky and killing people is not very rewarding since you could basically mash random attack buttons and see the same results. I have the queue window at 0 and it still makes no difference. And interrupting casts is a gamble because most likely you'll get the NEXT one.

I guess I'll return in a few months or so to check on things, but in it's current state it's unplayable as a dedicated PVP player.

1) I believe you and the other people that have reported no problems with the responsiveness. You also have to believe those of us that say there is a problem with it though. I'm not sure if there is a different use case between those of us having problems (ie: spamming too quickly, not using the queueing mechanism properly) or if it's merely just system dependent.

 

2) You honestly have to take me for a fool if you don't think I know the buff/debuff icons exist. These are not replacements for above character in-world status displays.

 

3) On the topic of hutball it's also an issue when trying, oh I don't know, to throw the ball to someone.

 

4) I didn't say there was too much cc at level 12 or 14. I said there is too much cc going on period which takes into account people chaining their cc intelligently.

1) I do believe you, just think it's worth mentioning that not everyone has experienced this problem to assist developers with troubleshooting the issue.

2) I'm sure you know they exist, yet you used the word "non-existent". The original sentence should be re-phrased to state that it needs to be improved, rather than it needs to be created.

3) You don't need to target the person you are throwing the ball to. It's like an area of affect spell, it just needs to be cast very close to them. (I'm sure you know this too, but that is how I'm understanding what you wrote).

4) I think we agree with the problem here, but we just don't agree on the solution. I think that if a player is immune to additional CC for 3 seconds after already being controlled, the issue would be fixed. Just so you know where I'm coming from, in Hutball I have experienced many times going from 100% health to 0% while being cc'ed the entire time.

When thinking about the CC issue though, keep in mind that the chain CC to death scenario usually only occurs when there are 3-5 opponent players ganking a single player whose friends are not around. In this scenario, the ganked player should not expect to be very successful. In a 1v1 situation, a single player can not chain CC to 0% health the opposing player.

Agreed on all points. It's lightyears away from WoW's fluidity and IMHO it's also worse than Warhammer. At least I got my dwarf to 40 there before I got fed up.

 

I don't know how a ranged class plays, but with my Assassin pvp is no fun atm. Yeah I can gib people, but the overall feel is extremely clunky and killing people is not very rewarding since you could basically mash random attack buttons and see the same results. I have the queue window at 0 and it still makes no difference. And interrupting casts is a gamble because most likely you'll get the NEXT one.

 

I guess I'll return in a few months or so to check on things, but in it's current state it's unplayable as a dedicated PVP player.

Ranged classes particularly the IA that I played in beta suffered from the same problems. Going into cover to use cover-related abilities was annoying because you would miss timings quite often due to responsiveness.

I was sketchy reading your first paragraph then that killed it. I'm sure, you don't sound good enough in PvP to be commenting on so intricate of a problem.

Your logic seems to be: "You weren't top of your bracket in at least 3 other MMO's, therefore your opinion does not matter".

This may be hard for you to hear, but the players who PvP 6 hours a day 7 days a week and take it very seriously are the minority. The majority of players mix PvP in with other activities. Therefore, and again going with your logic, my opinion means more than your opinion.

Personally though, I don't think that number of hours played in PvP = better insight into improvements. Let's just leave the e-peening out of this and have a civil discussion yeah?

When thinking about the CC issue though, keep in mind that the chain CC to death scenario usually only occurs when there are 3-5 opponent players ganking a single player whose friends are not around. In this scenario, the ganked player should not expect to be very successful. In a 1v1 situation, a single player can not chain CC to 0% health the opposing player.

The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

Your logic seems to be: "You weren't top of your bracket in at least 3 other MMO's, therefore your opinion does not matter".

 

This may be hard for you to hear, but the players who PvP 6 hours a day 7 days a week and take it very seriously are the minority. The majority of players mix PvP in with other activities. Therefore, and again going with your logic, my opinion means more than your opinion.

 

Personally though, I don't think that number of hours played in PvP = better insight into improvements. Let's just leave the e-peening out of this and have a civil discussion yeah?

People quoting their "credentials" in PVP is always laughable. This thread is meant to focus on the problems with the current PVP and not this ***-for-tat. I do tend to agree with you though on a lot of your points.

While I do agree with most of ur points I have to say why don't you just go back to WoW. Since obviously thats what you want. SWTOR is not WoW, stop trying to make it. Just take it for what it is already. So it's not as responsive as WoW, guess what? Every other player has the same problem. It's not like its giving someone else an advantage over you. The game has to go thru some tweaks obviously, its still not released. Biggest problem for any MMO is all the problems complain its not like WoW but theyre sick of WoW.

And yea there is a lot of CC in the game, but it's not like a class is gonna 2 or 3 shot you. If your getting chained CC by 3 or 4 players, guess what? Your prolly gonna die anyway whether or not you get CC'd. Targeting is an issue tho but again, everyone has the same problem.

While I do agree with most of ur points I have to say why don't you just go back to WoW. Since obviously thats what you want. SWTOR is not WoW, stop trying to make it. Just take it for what it is already. So it's not as responsive as WoW, guess what? Every other player has the same problem. It's not like its giving someone else an advantage over you. The game has to go thru some tweaks obviously, its still not released. Biggest problem for any MMO is all the problems complain its not like WoW but theyre sick of WoW.

And yea there is a lot of CC in the game, but it's not like a class is gonna 2 or 3 shot you. If your getting chained CC by 3 or 4 players, guess what? Your prolly gonna die anyway whether or not you get CC'd. Targeting is an issue tho but again, everyone has the same problem.

There seem to be recurring themes in the responses.

1) Go back to wow.

2) If you're fighting 14,000 versus 1 obviously your going to die.

Responses

1) I haven't played wow for 5 years. I don't plan on going back. It had many of it's own problems. I appreciated it's fluidity and responsiveness. In the pursuit of having an intelligent conversation I made up the term WOWFARM (World of Warcraft Fluidity and Responsiveness Metric) so that people could continue having the conversation without have to say "Well this amorphous thing that I can't quite describe regarding the game not being responsive and fluid to play and sometimes when I use things it takes time but other times things happen that I pressed a while ago but I" and you get the point. It's meant to improve the dialogue not to detract from it. Stop focusing on the fact that the word world of warcraft appears in it.

2) The cc 2v1 is enough for complete lock and rock. I'm not asking for no cc. I'm not asking to be a berserker demon who can take people 2v1. I'm asking to let me move my character and use my abilities so that I can die doing something 2v1.

Your logic seems to be: "You weren't top of your bracket in at least 3 other MMO's, therefore your opinion does not matter".

 

This may be hard for you to hear, but the players who PvP 6 hours a day 7 days a week and take it very seriously are the minority. The majority of players mix PvP in with other activities. Therefore, and again going with your logic, my opinion means more than your opinion.

 

Personally though, I don't think that number of hours played in PvP = better insight into improvements. Let's just leave the e-peening out of this and have a civil discussion yeah?

This is why your opinion does not matter in the slightest regarding PvP if it is to be changed for the better.