Wainamoinen Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) With all the complaints about Smash, I thought I'd look at my combat logs to find out what abilities were hitting me hardest, and which were hitting me hard most often. Burst is much more important than sustained in PvP, so these are the things that kill you. I've posted a screen grab of the result in case anyone's interested in actual numbers. I pulled all the hits on me of over 5k from 1st December 2012 to 14 Jan 2013. A month and a half of warzones. I haven't included my own hits, because they will have been on a variety of targets and aren't comparable (other than maybe to see how my max damage varied over time, not interested in that for this post's purposes). The target they are all on (me) is a Scoundrel with around 1300 expertise (from just under at the beginning of the period to just over at the end). I think this variation is small enough to make them fairly comparable. My Scoundrel is of course Rep, so there is a bias towards Imp abilities. However, SWTOR's mirror classes allow us to pair abilities for a combined total. I included some Rep abilities on the list as they were mirrors even though I wasn't hit for over 5k by them. Pic of the results here: http://tinypic.com/r/244upoo/6 The highlights: Hit for 5k or more 460 times. Biggest hit was a 7271 Smash. 88.5% of hits over 5k were either Smash or Force Sweep. The second hardest-hitting ability was Maul/Shadow Strike, with a high of 5856, and 5.2% of greater than 5k hits. Eight pairs of abilites managed to hit me for over 5k in the month and a half. Other than the two mentioned, these were: Force Scream/Blade Storm Heatseeker Missiles/Demolition Round Ambush/Aimed Shot Vicious Throw/Dispatch Ravage/Master Strike Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt Four of the eight abilities hitting me over 5k are Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior attacks (available to both Sentinel/Marauder and Guardian/Juggernaut advanced classes). No Sage/Sorceror or Scoundrel/Operative advanced class abilities hit me for over 5k in the month and a half of warzones. The number of times an ability appears could be affected by the number of opponents I faced. The JK/SW warrior abilities as basic class abilites are available to four advanced classes, so could be expected to be twice as common as an advanced-class-only ability even with equal numbers of opponent in each class. A related point is class popularity. Although I can't believe it applies to Sages/Sorcs, a lack of Scoundrel/Operative opponents might help explain the absence of Shoot First/Hidden Strike. If a lot of people are playing JK/SW, that would give a boost to the numbers of times I'm hit by their abilities outside the ability being stronger. The popularity argument risks being circular though, as it leads you to ask "why are they playing (or not playing), these dps classes?", and the answer is likely to be "the amount of damage they do". Ah well, take what you want from it. Edited January 21, 2013 by Wainamoinen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankorSSGS Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Interesting stuff, thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Very nicely made. Good to see something fresh on the PvP forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rincewend Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A great Idea, I think we should look into more studies like this. I know people will say that there are more knight/Mara's in PVP now so that will inflate the numbers, but I think that alone is a comment on the state of the game. The biggest single hit ability I know for Sorcs is TB with affliction up (for the crit). It rare to see it in PVP because people are going hybrid. Even than the best I have done is 4.5k with 1300 ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammuelSK Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Four of the eight abilities hitting me over 5k are Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior attacks (available to both Sentinel/Marauder and Guardian/Juggernaut advanced classes). I think this is personally the most telling statistic. I've mentioned it a few times myself in the past, namely that its silly how many abilities this one spec(not even going to say class) has that hit for over 5000k, while other classes exist that don't even have a single attack capable of doing that. I've watched a buddy pull of pretty rediculous hits with Smash, I believe his last recorded personal best was 8200, then follow it up with 5500 Vicious Throws or Force Screams. Oh.. and its an AOE attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNofu Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Graph format. Best I could do: Smash is OP. From this data you can make two hypothesis. (1) More smash hits is because the skill is OP and does not require a skilled or geared player to do. (2) There are more Smash hits because of more Juggs. I'd be interested in helping with this data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) The raw data would be wonderful. Edited January 21, 2013 by Blasphemerr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNofu Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (2) There are more Smash hits because of more Juggs. I think I might go along with this data. I will go into a warzone and count at the end of the WZ the classes for each team and count mirrors together. Maybe then we can see a certain fluctuation. I will do this for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraz Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Damning evidence imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If you got hit by dispatch for 5k, then you should have been hit by Takedown or Assassinate for 5k as well. Especially Assassinate (hits significantly harder than dispatch). Also, if anyone still played watchman, merc slash definitely can hit for more than 5k. Deception shock and discharge can get over 5k too. There's a few others too, but this is just an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) yea well thats because sorcs wear heavy ar... wait well sorcs, they have alot of surviva...... wait .. its cause sorcs dots are whats so powerful.. wait.... yea idk *** bw was thinking nvm but yea, this runs about the same logic that has Warriors, assasins, and snipers being the only classes with an EXECUTE ability.. and yet.. they have the highest hitting abilities in the game already? Edited January 21, 2013 by wwkingms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalhazar Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What kind of scoundrel are you? I am asking because, smash being AE, you may not have been the primary target of the attack much of the time. If you're not a marked primary target, you may be missing out on some hard hits by virtue of them being single-target only. That said, I'm a fairly experienced jugg tank and I decided to try out the smash dps for laughs over the weekend and what I saw was quite impressive (especially since for a minor damage reduction, I _could_ have run in Soresu and guarded a healer.) So I am... not disagreeing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If you got hit by dispatch for 5k, then you should have been hit by Takedown or Assassinate for 5k as well. Especially Assassinate (hits significantly harder than dispatch). Also, if anyone still played watchman, merc slash definitely can hit for more than 5k. Deception shock and discharge can get over 5k too. There's a few others too, but this is just an example. idk about that at 1300 expertise ive been dispatched for 5.9k the smash/force sweep tree has some dmg buffs to it.. i know for sure ive been vicious thrown harder than assasinated.. probably because the frequency is more lets not forget juggs can do this at medium ranged as well opposed to melee range for assasinate regardless i feel executes have no place in swtor pvp atm with the current balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diplomaticus Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What kind of scoundrel are you? I am asking because, smash being AE, you may not have been the primary target of the attack much of the time. If you're not a marked primary target, you may be missing out on some hard hits by virtue of them being single-target only. That said, I'm a fairly experienced jugg tank and I decided to try out the smash dps for laughs over the weekend and what I saw was quite impressive (especially since for a minor damage reduction, I _could_ have run in Soresu and guarded a healer.) So I am... not disagreeing with you. I agree, both on the fact that this twists the numbers somewhat, and on the fact that it's still OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralOnasi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm saving this thread for when people try to say that Sorc/Sage and Scoundrel/Operative DPS is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'm saving this thread for when people try to say that Sorc/Sage and Scoundrel/Operative DPS is fine. i guess i only have myself to blame when i force storm for 16 minutes straight and make 700k dmg done hitting everyone in a circle for 400 dmg a tick is quite awe insipiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTomorrow Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) i think you've had it easy with snipers as well. On a bad day you can eat 5k Follotrhroughs, Takedowns as well. Anything dispatch/vicious throw can do, Takedown can do better. I'm saving this thread for when people try to say that Sorc/Sage and Scoundrel/Operative DPS is fine. Sorc madness is fine. Edited January 21, 2013 by NoTomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Holmes Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 i guess i only have myself to blame when i force storm for 16 minutes straight and make 700k dmg done hitting everyone in a circle for 400 dmg a tick is quite awe insipiring Can you take out a geared healer with your 400 ticks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fungihoujo Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 88.5% of hits over 5k were either Smash or Force Sweep. And it auto crits... and it's aoe. This is the data that'll be showing up in the metrics too- yet, nothing's being done. When 9 in 10 times you're hit for more than 5k damage it's from smash- you have a problem with class balance. I like how some classes didn't even show up on that list, though I'm not surprised. Makes sense that the most survivable and mobile class in the game also hits the hardest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwkingms Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 And it auto crits... and it's aoe. This is the data that'll be showing up in the metrics too- yet, nothing's being done. When 9 in 10 times you're hit for more than 5k damage it's from smash- you have a problem with class balance. I like how some classes didn't even show up on that list, though I'm not surprised. Makes sense that the most survivable and mobile class in the game also hits the hardest. hey or the least survivability hits the least hardest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauerkraut Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If you got hit by dispatch for 5k, then you should have been hit by Takedown or Assassinate for 5k as well. Especially Assassinate (hits significantly harder than dispatch). Also, if anyone still played watchman, merc slash definitely can hit for more than 5k. Deception shock and discharge can get over 5k too. There's a few others too, but this is just an example. The reason why the imp abilities seems to cause more damage, because imp players have the tendency to stuck offensive stats meantime the rebs like to stuck up on defensive stats, so obviously the guy with full defense will hit for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamLKvist Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The reason why the imp abilities seems to cause more damage, because imp players have the tendency to stuck offensive stats meantime the rebs like to stuck up on defensive stats, so obviously the guy with full defense will hit for less. Not sure if trolling or just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blasphemerr Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Does the game even record in the log file the full amount of damage taken from killshots? That would explain the lack of kill-shot #s. And you know, he's a stealthy fool that probably vanishes at any sign of troubles. ... If only we could change the output directory of logfiles to keep 'em off the SSDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 in the Rob Hinkle feature they just did, he mentioned that he wanted to see more posts w/ combat log info. it would be great to have a dev weigh in on this data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama-Eight Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Does the log file list the total damage done for each cast of channelled abilities like Ful Auto/Unload, Telekinetic throw, etc? As a Commando, I'm not surprised that Demo round & HiB are there & I think it's interesting that they are near the top (ignoring Smash/Sweep), it also probably means that the OP had 4-5 stacks of the grav round debuff. Thanks for sharing this & I'd like to know how you got the data (direct from your log file, parsed by a site in any way)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts