Is it still a bomberfest and premades every 9/10 matches?

anything major change

GS pilot here

Is it still a bomberfest and premades every 9/10 matches?

anything major change

GS pilot here

Bomber fest are breakable.

Only ones crying premade 9/10 matches are bad who can't see skill and call situationnal awereness and understanding of the game premade with VOIP.

GS are still easy kills.

Bombers are still easy to kill with the right builds.

BLC and quad'n'pods are still dominant.

90% of the peple flying on every server are barely decent.

Whiners are still whining.

TL;DR Nothing changed.

and call situationnal awereness and understanding of the game premade with VOIP.

ANY game with VOIP have an HUGE advantage over those involved players who don't.

Which simply means that VOIP is OP, in my opinion. It is even able to circumvent lack of skill, because the mass is going as a group to an alerted point ... And that even far before the nonj-VOIP players are able to see what's going on ...

I have been dfefeated several times despite having "situational awareness" - simply because the other team was so much well coordinated.

And this high level of group coordination just breaks a game if the other group is far less coordinated. It's simply a kind of inbalance.

which basically means "bring your own premade."

Which makes the game unfun for casual gamers.

Or maybe some players don't want casual gamers in this game anyway ...

Flying on Progenitor and Red Eclipse:

- Gunshipwalls are dominant in TDM, However gunshi pilots repeatedly complain on forums about battlescouts that dare to fly close instead of being easy targets at 10+k distance.

- Bombers had a major nerf - mines now respect line of sight.with both trigger and explosion. Still best for sat holding, but acceptable now.

ANY game with VOIP have an HUGE advantage over those involved players who don't.

 

Which simply means that VOIP is OP, in my opinion. It is even able to circumvent lack of skill, because the mass is going as a group to an alerted point ... And that even far before the nonj-VOIP players are able to see what's going on ...

 

I have been dfefeated several times despite having "situational awareness" - simply because the other team was so much well coordinated.

 

And this high level of group coordination just breaks a game if the other group is far less coordinated. It's simply a kind of inbalance.

False. I've seen Drako premade countered a few times by skilled players without any VOIP... ANd we all know that Drako's team is probably one of the more coordinated around. Situationnal awereness isn't only about knowing what is happening everywhere.. It is also about knowing how to react, how the enemy will react to your reaction.

Coordination isn't only found through VOIP. Just having 4 vets in a single game who know what they are doing will create a rather good coordination. Honestly I've flown with Nyghty a few times with and without VOIP. And in both situations we were kicking asses and chewing bubblegums. I've flown with many vets on TEH without VOIP and we were still flying rather well together.

Which makes the game unfun for casual gamers.

Or maybe some players don't want casual gamers in this game anyway ...

Nerf having friends much, ain't it??

You missed damage winning a domination match... Oh wait, it still doesn't? And players still choose this tactic over sat capping & maintaining? Well that's outrageous!

On a more serious note, my hated adversary Ronald "Nancy" Garvin is still around and ever present, using his sith-like sorcery to makerailgun shots that have a 0 tracking penalty and are dead center, miss like they were aimed at Dantoinne, for 15 second!! That RNG guy is still THE MOST OP! Nerf Ronald!

ANY game with VOIP have an HUGE advantage over those involved players who don't.

 

Which simply means that VOIP is OP, in my opinion.

Your baseline is players who are uncoordinated? And this makes coordination over powered.

Perhaps it is as simple as, players who do not coordinate are barely playing at all.

It is even able to circumvent lack of skill

I would say it allows for team skill to come into play, an entirely different and deeper skillset, making the game not exclusively about who is the better dogfighter, but who is the better pilot.

Which makes the game unfun for casual gamers.

If losing to superior pilots makes the game less fun for them, who cares? Those aren't casual players, those are whiners.

By the standards of many games, ALL OF US ARE CASUALS. We don't have to show up at specified times, we don't need to play for hours each day, we don't have extraordinarily hard skill requirements to grind up a competitive ladder, we don't face gear or ranking punishment for a loss, we aren't unable to queue because only nine logged in and you need a full twelve, if you log in, get queued next to some aces and throw the game you don't have toxic sludge thrown at you (no, a whisper calling out a new player or a generic statement to please stop diving at enemy nests is not in the same world as what you might see in other games), the power difference betwixt a newish ship and a complete ship is not huge, the gear is a short progression to a fixed endpoint instead of an endless decayfest, and there's no professional GSF players. Many games have some of these, and some have THEM ALL.

You use the term "casual" because it's a positive one, or at least neutral. But this game is all about casuals. If the definition of "casual" is "has no friends, can't avoid rocks, didn't map boost', then no, this game is not casual friendly. But that's not how anyone in the community uses "casual". That's how we say "bad".

This game has baddies as foodships getting eaten. And that's fine. Foodships can learn to fly, and often do, and it doesn't require some massive outlay of time.

Your baseline is players who are uncoordinated? And this makes coordination over powered.

 

Perhaps it is as simple as, players who do not coordinate are barely playing at all.

You would make a horrible game designer.

Coordination should only be assumed in a competitive atmosphere. We see this in other aspects of this same game -- take a look at DP SM, for example, where tank swaps and the past/present mechanics are simplified because the target audience is casual.

Why you would ever assume that coordination should be the baseline in a game without a (working) matchmaking system is beyond me.

I would say it allows for team skill to come into play, an entirely different and deeper skillset, making the game not exclusively about who is the better dogfighter, but who is the better pilot.

Very true. But that's not what your target audience wants.

If losing to superior pilots makes the game less fun for them, who cares? Those aren't casual players, those are whiners.

If a core element of your game is less than fun for your target audience, there's a problem. I dunno why you seem to think that blaming the victim justifies failure of basic logic and design principles.

By the standards of many games, ALL OF US ARE CASUALS.

As enlightening as this rant is, it's completely tangential. GSF isn't many other games, it's GSF, and the design behind it reflects that. Yes, some of the design is less than satisfactory, but there's nothing that I can see that justifies judging GSF by the standards of LoL or whatever you were thinking of when you wrote that.

You use the term "casual" because it's a positive one, or at least neutral. But this game is all about casuals. If the definition of "casual" is "has no friends, can't avoid rocks, didn't map boost', then no, this game is not casual friendly. But that's not how anyone in the community uses "casual". That's how we say "bad".

You're making sweeping assertions here. I know you're not used to everyone agreeing with you, but you could at least pretend like you care about being correct. Also, if the game is "all about casuals", why should coordination be our baseline?

This game has baddies as foodships getting eaten. And that's fine. Foodships can learn to fly, and often do, and it doesn't require some massive outlay of time.

So, lemme see if I understand you here, because I probably don't -- my interpretation makes assumptions, so I'd like you to correct me where I'm wrong.

"This game has baddies as foodships getting eaten." So, what you're saying is, the worse pilots (or dogfighters, if you'd like to make that distinction) are farmed by the better. But the implication, and my assumption, is that there are a lot of poor players for every good player. Obviously, this depends on where you set the bar, but judging by your post history I think it's a safe assumption that a lot of players are bad pilots (due either to their own lack of practice or the game's lack of tutorials). Is that right?

Let me give you my own experience: A lot of players are bad and get farmed by the players that are good. Many of them simply quit GSF and go do other things.

Do you know what we call that in my Principles of Game Design class? We call that bad design. If a huge portion of my target audience quit my game very quickly, I would get a 0 on the assignment.

I don't disagree with you that it's fine that bad players are beaten by good players. I do disagree with the implication that it's fine for a player to die five or more times in a single match to a veteran with thousands of matches under their belt, all the while feeling like they can't do a thing to change the outcome of the battle, much less the match. It's not fine that I've played a match where I got 29 kills and took no damage whatsoever. It's a gross imbalance and a failure of design that poor players are run roughshod over by the learned in every match I play.

(As a side note, it looks like people are falling into the trap of confusing the three axes usually used to describe competitive players: novice vs experienced, casual vs hardcore, and skilled vs unskilled. The three are, in fact, very different, and all combinations of players exist.)

(As another side note, the time investment required to become actually good at the game is fairly substantial, even if you cut out queue waiting times. GSF is just not an intuitive game.)

As evident here, testosterone is a requirement, might invest in some of that underarm roll-on to boost up your levels.

Well, the developers left after bombers so... there was one thing however.

Stealth nerfs, do not rely on any tooltips for anything with a lock-on. A few patches back some enterprising developer decided to futz with things and broke just about everything and it has yet to be acknowledged or fixed.

Quick Cheatsheet: (I forget all the details, a-seaching you should go)

EMP pulse and missile are both smaller radius than listed

ION Missile is half the duration than listed

ION Missile upgrade talent does not slow

Interdiction Missile does not slow as much as it should

Interdiction Missile does not last as long as it's listed

Thermite Torpedo firing arc is smaller than list and displayed

Sabatage Probe, Don't use the LEFT T5 ability, it breaks the probe's maneuver lock.

Geez that one exploded, i was only asking if Premades were still as prevelent as they were when i left. (atleast on my server, they weren't all that common til after it fully launched)

I couldn't find anyone to group with me, ever. i tried

When i was playing, I was a lone Gunship vs 2 scouts that i swear had a srs grudge (since i recognized both names and had owned them seperately in earlier matches and they were hounding me.....above and beyond their what their job requires (ignoring other GSs so they could hide to wait for me to respawn))

yeah coordinated team >>>everything, i can't believe there is an argument on it. Teamwork will always be OP and is unnerfable

thx Bolo for actually answering the question

ANY game with VOIP have an HUGE advantage over those involved players who don't.

 

Yes, otherwise they would not use it. In GSF the advantage is not as high as in the Ground PVP because some typical Premade tactics do not work, fortunately.

Thus, the life as a solo player in gsf is halfways acceptable.

Of course, there is a fundamental problem when external programs are used which act essentially as cheating.

The "politics" of Bioware this is very contradictory. Still in beta, there was a VOIP Blocker. Unfortunately, it has not made it into this game.

Consequence of this "legal" Cheating misery may be only to largely remove the mechanisms that bring benefits to VOIP premades out of the game.

Well one thing that should help players get groups is the GSF chat channel (I don't know whether you left before it was added or not, and I don't know how much use it gets on your server), but hey, its something and I have noticed people getting grouped for GSF play through it on Ebon Hawk...

first i heard of it so i guess i left first

Well one thing that should help players get groups is the GSF chat channel (I don't know whether you left before it was added or not, and I don't know how much use it gets on your server), but hey, its something and I have noticed people getting grouped for GSF play through it on Ebon Hawk...

Most of the groups are uncoordinated.

Of course, there is a fundamental problem when external programs are used which act essentially as cheating.

This is one of the silliest things I have ever seen on any forum.

Still in beta, there was a VOIP Blocker.

This is even sillier. No, there was not. At no point in history has any game company tried this. Bioware was never working on a VOIP blocker, not in GSF beta, not in SWTOR beta, and nowhere at all unless they want to make slashdot and get absolutely crapped on by techies. No one is trying to block voice, coordinating is not cheating, it is a team game, and no, it is not Bioware's job to copy Blizzard and make a failed VOIP in game solution that no one will use and will never work.

The existing voice solutions work great, are ubiquitous, and free. They are all intended and useful ways to play the game, as are LAN parties and everything else.

Unfortunately, it has not made it into this game.

No, because it never existed, and it's VERY fortunate that it never did. They would never live it down. If you are going to reply to this- and I don't really recommend that- by all means explain how you think a "VOIP blocker" would work. I would love to hear the technical details on this ludicrous gem, all the digital contortions you imagine EA going through to stop the unstoppable, because, of course, if they DID manage this- and they could not- you would just skype your buddies on your cellphone's skype, and chat that way.

Consequence of this "legal" Cheating misery may be only to largely remove the mechanisms that bring benefits to VOIP premades out of the game.

Yes, obviously, they should make the game awful so that teams don't play it, or make the game so shallow that calling targets is ineffective. How would you expect this to work? I'm not even sure I want to know. Also, if it is "cheating", why is there an option to queue as a group? I mean, not that you should be surprised to see this in a team game. At all.

(...)it is not Bioware's job to copy Blizzard and make a failed VOIP in game solution that no one will use and will never work.

 

The existing voice solutions work great, are ubiquitous, and free. They are all intended and useful ways to play the game, as are LAN parties and everything else.

There is one basic advantage of ingame voip - you can get a 'group/team channel' instantly. Now in, for instance, teamspeak you have to broadcast the address to everyone in match. Also, change password each time you get a new match, to ensure enemies won't log into your channel ...

... So I disagree with your opinion about the ingame voip. It would make the game much easier to coordinate - and would finally silenc everyune complaining about 'voip premades'...

There is one basic advantage of ingame voip - you can get a 'group/team channel' instantly.

The big barricade to voice is having a player sitting there with a headset on, ready to go. Properly configured and tested and motivated to use it. In practice, every playing who does THAT hurdle has no problem typing in a server name and pressing enter twice.

Again- and this comes up a LOT- World of Warcraft had these SAME complaints with their random battlegrounds, and they actually went ahead and dropped who knows HOW much dev time and money into making an ingame VOIP.

And guess what? No one uses it.

Because it's worse than the dedicated VOIPs at most things, and has the same effective barrier to entry. Even with the ability to auto-join a chat just for the exact thing you are actually doing with just the exact people you are doing it with, it saw essentially no use.

One of the downsides is actually that- most people don't want instant voice comms to their group of players, because the potential upside- better coordination, leading to victory- is often more than offset by the potential downside- social pressure, screaming jerks, whining, or overhearing some awful thing in the background. It's the Xbox effect- everyone thought this was a good idea, but it doesn't take many racist twelve year olds to make you think "huh, maybe giving random people permission to unload into my ears is a bad plan, because that one rare bad seed generates a much more negative experience than the polite ones do a positive".

But while it is interesting to theorize about that, what we do know is, no one would use the ingame VOIP.

And the whole thing is moot, because an ingame VOIP represents a development on the scale of GSF itself, increases server load, creates a ton of code to maintain, requires extensive and expensive tasking to legal to spin up an updated EULA that won't get you in trouble when some random psycho uses the VOIP to verbally damage some child, is an unholy nightmare to test, requires the addition of a whole new input to SWTOR as a whole, and is entirely obsoleted by SEVERAL open source and proprietary applications that already ALSO offer the ability to call your grandmother, telecom in to work, and play seamlessly in MANY games, with a large web of established users. It's a literal industry of free and monetized solutions. It would make more sense to expect Bioware to come out with a special controller just for SWTOR.

Now in, for instance, teamspeak you have to broadcast the address to everyone in match.

Yea, and like, it would take almost four whole games to get the addresses of every voice used on any given server. I mean, FOUR GAMES. Much better to recode skype from scratch.

Fun fact: sab probe is still broken, and that's a pretty big bug. Tooltips are still broken, and that's a four byte fix. It's been broken for more months than character positions would need to be modified to fix it. I'm sure they'll get right on embedding mumble.

Again- and this comes up a LOT- World of Warcraft had these SAME complaints with their random battlegrounds, and they actually went ahead and dropped who knows HOW much dev time and money into making an ingame VOIP.

These constant comparisons with WOW, the nightmare of any serious PVP players, are meaningless. Will there not also take it because it is not interested.

PVP oriented games already know the VOIP chat problem from the bottom up not. There are no games either purely by groups against PUGS or matchmaking ensures that each team will be assigned to a group.

Again, there are quite a game mode in PVP, is used in the VOIP chat by ALL, and thus offers no advantage: Group Rated.

In the regular PVP, solo Rated and GSF VOIP Chat is a cheat. Point.

In the regular PVP, solo Rated and GSF VOIP Chat is a cheat. Point.

And there we go. The forums have officially hit rock bottom.

Voice chat, voice chat, voice chat. Why not make a shiny RTS-type interface so someone can point important things out graphically?

Consider how controls currently are. You're supposed to have one hand on your mouse, and one hand over WASD and 1-4. All the time.

Both hands are locked down.

So if there's a way to make an in-game command prompt or something like that, which doesn't imply to give up elementary controls to use it, or alternatively which doesn't imply the need for some specific hardware, then I'd be happy to learn more about it.

But frankly, as the game is now, I doubt that any in-game help is possible without having unreasonable downsides.

I was talking about a totally new interface. I wasn't thinking of a squadron chatter system so much as a commander-watches-and-influences-battle system-which would put the team down a man, but could mean much better coordination without voice chat.

Since we are supposed to be running a family friendly game and the devs likely don't want people screaming profanity at random people (combined with such nice things as 'f2p scrub' and the like-or trying to shout at the other team like some people do in general chat), that just seemed like the most obvious answer.

Voice chat, voice chat, voice chat. Why not make a shiny RTS-type interface so someone can point important things out graphically?

Mechwarrior:Online has something like that, if I understand you correctly. One Player can choose to be the Teamleader enabling him to place different marks on the map like "Flanking right", "Hold Position", "Move to..." and so on.

In pug games it wouldn't work 90% of the time. Either the selfelected "Commander" was a tactical moron or some of the players would ignore every command and try to solo an entire lance of enemy mechs.

The only occasion where I saw it working properly was, when I was in a 12-man premade. But even there it was only a graphical addition and most of the commands were given over teamspeak.