adiwantinova Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 So, some guildies and I were talking last night & the comment was made that the speed of combat in pvp has become too fast. They asked with consistent gear progression, how BW could manage the speed aspect to pvp, and ensure there are still "epic" battles (their original intent and design with the GCD, etc). It's an interesting thing to think about. I am a twitch gamer & started playing console FPS games a long time ago, and I must admit, there are times that this game now feels like a Halo game (two shotgun blasts and you're having to respawn) rather than an MMO. SWG was way more "epic" than swtor (in terms of time to kill, etc). So, here's my question: Would you be upset if BW decreased all healing and damage output in WZ's by 25%, but left it as-is for PVE combat/operations in an attempt to control speed of combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lejune Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 For starters, 7k smashes/sweeps should not be possible through No combination/mod itemizations. 7k instant aoe is.....well still no words to justify this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleprock Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I would like to see combat slowed a bit also. The power creep is making battles, harder hitting ordeals and everything should scaled back. I also feel at times the game is moving way too fast, especaially as a melee tank class where my eyes are moving like crazy to spot dpsers, ranged, people to help etc. I get headaches whereas playing ranged I can "relax" more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 They should just make it turn based. Like Pokemon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 and ensure there are still "epic" battles (their original intent and design with the GCD, etc). Its really epic when half (or all 8 ) of my team dead after 5-7 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELECTRICJUDGMENT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Seriously. PvP is not intended to be relaxing. Those 7k smash hits are by critical chance provided by the player's gear and skills that they have earned in one way or another. They are not consistent damage, and range from 1.5k to whatever their critical chance + critical multiplier + strength + power, etc. will allow. No different than the DPS Sorc instantly taking 8k of my HP on Voidstar last night. Really, the only people still complaining about force sweep/smash damage are the same people expecting to "relax" and 2-button faceroll in PvP with little to no effort. Edited December 9, 2012 by ELECTRICJUDGMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufox Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Its really epic when half (or all 8 ) of my team dead after 5-7 sec. LOL. For the record in 1.0 8 dps was better than most dps/heal/tank teams because 8 mildly organized dps could wreck everything. Might be coincidence but its been a while since I've seen that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexlo Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 SWG was way more "epic" than swtor (in terms of time to kill, etc). Not sure which version you played, but 6 seconds was the average lifespan against in an 8 v 8. Not very epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Seriously. PvP is not intended to be relaxing. Those 7k smash hits are by critical chance provided by the player's gear and skills that they have earned in one way or another. They are not consistent damage, and range from 1.5k to whatever their critical chance + critical multiplier + strength + power, etc. will allow. No different than the DPS Sorc instantly taking 8k of my HP on Voidstar last night. Really, the only people still complaining about force sweep/smash damage are the same people expecting to "relax" and 2-button faceroll in PvP with little to no effort. Not complainng or anything but you do realize that smash is most of the time going to be an auto-crit right? I think its fine though kinda like a Dire Root, SFP push in galaxies except we wouldnt be stunned every .2 seconds so you could possible get some line of sight or something silly like that to help survive n recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiwantinova Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I was a MENH/MLS/Healer: 4040 in SWG pre-cu, through CU, and into the NGE. The epic pvp was admittedly before the NGE. I was able to take down 2 combat medics, 1 master defender and a MTK/Fencer hybrid with intentional use of CC, force run, heals, and DPS after about 30 minutes of play. It was epic in comparison to SWTOR back in that version. P.S. Let me be clear, this is not a thread talking about derpsmash specs, or stun bubbles. The question is: Would you be upset if BW brought all healing and damage down by 25% in WZ's in an attempt to make combat slower and more "epic"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRNphg Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) No different than the DPS Sorc instantly taking 8k of my HP on Voidstar last night.. Sorc has no ability to do damage like that in a single skill. Recklesness + Death field + Chain lightning on proc could do that kind of damage but that would mean two 4k hits in basicly 2 GCDs not taking the gcd for recklesness into account and the skills it takes to get CL proc into account which could be acquired earlier. Not the same as smash. But I agree with what you say. Speed seems fine to me. Esp. when both teams are equal. Edited December 9, 2012 by CRNphg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lejune Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Seriously. PvP is not intended to be relaxing. Those 7k smash hits are by critical chance provided by the player's gear and skills that they have earned in one way or another. They are not consistent damage, and range from 1.5k to whatever their critical chance + critical multiplier + strength + power, etc. will allow. No different than the DPS Sorc instantly taking 8k of my HP on Voidstar last night. Really, the only people still complaining about force sweep/smash damage are the same people expecting to "relax" and 2-button faceroll in PvP with little to no effort. Like I said ...I don't care how hard they worked for it...it still should not be possible. I'm very sure swtor didn't intend for that via the low health pools. And if you are smarter than your comment...and though about the 7k smash....it's not the 7ker that is the most damaging....it's the second leap auto crit after the smash/sweep come off CD. 2 in one duel fight is too much. If his powered up combo smash/sweep his for 7k...well his non powered leap auto crit still hits for.....how much? Lol....do the math on just those 2 attacks and compare it to an average toon's health pool...TTK is to fast = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TipsyDrow Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) They are closing the gear gap. They are going to make exertise the same on all gear sets. This will slow down battles a bit. I am wholly against lowering healing anymore as we already have a 30% trauma debuff in pvp. I am against lowering damage also. Certain classes already have subpar damage. 7k smashes are rare and will become more rare after 1.6 and more people get in WH gear and get it augmented. Also it is my hope that after 1.6 burst will not be as nasty with more people on on an even gear tier. People die fast in pvp because they either are outgeared,outplayed,focus fired on or all the above. Edited December 9, 2012 by TipsyDrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELECTRICJUDGMENT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Like I said ...I don't care how hard they worked for it...it still should not be possible. I'm very sure swtor didn't intend for that via the low health pools. And if you are smarter than your comment...and though about the 7k smash....it's not the 7ker that is the most damaging....it's the second leap auto crit after the smash/sweep come off CD. 2 in one duel fight is too much. If his powered up combo smash/sweep his for 7k...well his non powered leap auto crit still hits for.....how much? Lol....do the math on just those 2 attacks and compare it to an average toon's health pool...TTK is to fast = What class do you play? BTW, Sent/Mara gear has the most Critical chance by default. The Swelling Winds/Decimate skill was at one point a Guardian/Juggernaut only skill, in the Vigilance/Vengeance tree, before it was moved to the shared Focus tree. It needs to be moved back to Vigilance/Vengeance. Sents/Maras had more than enough DPS potential and survivability without it. Edited December 9, 2012 by ELECTRICJUDGMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGame Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not sure which version you played, but 6 seconds was the average lifespan against in an 8 v 8. Not very epic. using LOS with a good medic and officer in the grp fights could end up lasting a long time and often had dramatic outcomes I would say it was epic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dufox Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 using LOS with a good medic and officer in the grp fights could end up lasting a long time and often had dramatic outcomes I would say it was epic This applies to swtor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELECTRICJUDGMENT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Sorc has no ability to do damage like that in a single skill. Recklesness + Death field + Chain lightning on proc could do that kind of damage but that would mean two 4k hits in basicly 2 GCDs not taking the gcd for recklesness into account and the skills it takes to get CL proc into account which could be acquired earlier. Not the same as smash. But I agree with what you say. Speed seems fine to me. Esp. when both teams are equal. True, but Sweep/Smash doesn't immobilize like those Sorc abilities, giving them more than enough opportunity to get off tons of damage in a matter of seconds without any opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceelaniri Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I was a MENH/MLS/Healer: 4040 in SWG pre-cu, through CU, and into the NGE. The epic pvp was admittedly before the NGE. I was able to take down 2 combat medics, 1 master defender and a MTK/Fencer hybrid with intentional use of CC, force run, heals, and DPS after about 30 minutes of play. It was epic in comparison to SWTOR back in that version. P.S. Let me be clear, this is not a thread talking about derpsmash specs, or stun bubbles. The question is: Would you be upset if BW brought all healing and damage down by 25% in WZ's in an attempt to make combat slower and more "epic"? While I agree about the speed of fight being a bit too short, your example is just a terrible one. To put your example into perspective, how long would it take you to take down 1 BH/Carbineer or any ranged class? Roughly, a few seconds... There has never been anything epic in playing an OP class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrderOfVirtue Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 They should just make it turn based. Like Pokemon. PVP is the only thing this game has left.... whoever started this post must be a clicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiwantinova Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 To give you some idea what -25% would be on damage: - A 7,000 crit smash would turn into a 5,250 smash. - A 6,400 (my top ever) heal would turn into a 4,800 heal. Keep in mind, those are top end, hardest to hit values & most heals land for about 5,000-5,300 (or 3,700-3,970 when reduced by 25%), and most derpsmashes land for 5,000-6,000 (which would be reduced to 3,750-4,500). I've only heard one person reply with their vote against decreasing damage/healing for WZ's. Anyone else care to cast a vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiwantinova Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 PVP is the only thing this game has left.... whoever started this post must be a clicker I'm a keybound button masher + mouse button clicker. I am a skilled PVP'er, and my credentials here are not the point of the topic. As Porkins says: "Stay on target!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lejune Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 They are closing the gear gap. They are going to make exertise the same on all gear sets. This will slow down battles a bit. I am wholly against lowering healing anymore as we already have a 30% trauma debuff in pvp. I am against lowering damage also. Certain classes already have subpar damage. 7k smashes are rare and will become more rare after 1.6 and more people get in WH gear and get it augmented. Also it is my hope that after 1.6 burst will not be as nasty with more people on on an even gear tier. People die fast in pvp because they either are outgeared,outplayed,focus fired on or all the above. I agree with all of your points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lejune Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 To give you some idea what -25% would be on damage: - A 7,000 crit smash would turn into a 5,250 smash. - A 6,400 (my top ever) heal would turn into a 4,800 heal. Keep in mind, those are top end, hardest to hit values & most heals land for about 5,000-5,300 (or 3,700-3,970 when reduced by 25%), and most derpsmashes land for 5,000-6,000 (which would be reduced to 3,750-4,500). I've only heard one person reply with their vote against decreasing damage/healing for WZ's. Anyone else care to cast a vote? It still won't matter if only one class still have the ability to put up certain large numbers like that. But Like I said earlier...I don't think even BW ever thought that those abilities would ever hit that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 They should just make it turn based. Like Pokemon. Aye, kotor and pokemon was hard. Lololololol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I think a 25% reduction in damage would very possibly cripple into utter uselessness any DPS class that isn't already dependent on very heavy burst. Concentrated Derpsmashers would still be able to take down people relatively quickly, and now they wouldn't risk getting nearly as hurt in the meantime. In addition, slowing the pace of battle down would need to accompanied by a quicker cap time on Turrets in CW and doors in Voidstar simply because the chances of completely clearing out the enemy team before they can get reinforcements would go down since movement speed and what not wouldn't be affected. Turrets would likely never change hands again. Buff burst DPS trees for all the non OP classes and you might be on to something I suppose. I'd look at more finely tuned changes though. A broad, across the board, 25% reduction in damage and healing would certainly slow things down, but I think similar effects can be achieved with better thought out and more surgical solutions. Course that kind of across the board cut is relatively easy compared to coming up with those fine tuned surgical solutions, so that alone might make it attractive to BW, who I'm not convinced cares to invest the effort needed to truly fix the PVP game. Edit: I would look at making tank stats actually effective against force/tech, and maybe a 10% nerf to smash, or the removal of the autocrit talent on it. Law of unintended consequences says that would have it's own problems, but I'd start along those lines. Edited December 9, 2012 by ArchangelLBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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