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Tanking in this game sucks


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As much as it's entertaining that the loud minority in this thread think tanking is fine, I'd much rather they make tanking extremely faceroll so that there are actually tanks than to leave it the way it is where there are no tanks. If tanking were so fun and better than in other games, then why is there so few tanks? The answer: it's not. Or at least, not to the vast majority of people who play this game, which are indeed casual. I'm actually a former casual player myself and hardcore now, but even still, my guild which is doing Explosive Conflict right now can barely manage one, maybe two tanks at best. Our main tank is a tank alt and actually would rather DPS, but has to tank because there are none. The other tanks aren't on very much or are main spec DPS. Other than that, we have to get tanks from other guilds to tank for us because there are no tanks.

 

Bottom line, I don't care how rewarding tanking is in this game if there aren't even enough people who want to do it. I tanked a bit myself until I realized how bad everyone is. Every time a DPS would attack the wrong target it would make me rage and want to quit the group. Same with when a healer would ask for Guard, etc. Most people just don't know how to play and don't understand game mechanics. The game needs to be designed around that instead of ignoring it if it wants to survive any longer than it already will, which isn't that long judging by how many subs it's losing every quarter.

I had to re-read your post several times trying to decide if you're just trolling for a response. In the end I decided to bite, hope I'm not wrong.

 

Loud minority? Other than the OP and you, everyone in this thread posted how much they enjoy tanking. Who's in the minority again? Also, I've talked to many players and the only time I've ever seen anyone advocate making tanking faceroll simple is you and cjakubow.

 

After getting frustrated with bad players, your solution is redesign the game mechanics to make it easier? Since a well-played tank is only necessary for end-game operations, all you would do is make the game boring for the people that stick around to try and master these operations. Nope.

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As much as it's entertaining that the loud minority in this thread think tanking is fine, I'd much rather they make tanking extremely faceroll so that there are actually tanks than to leave it the way it is where there are no tanks. If tanking were so fun and better than in other games, then why is there so few tanks? The answer: it's not. Or at least, not to the vast majority of people who play this game, which are indeed casual. I'm actually a former casual player myself and hardcore now, but even still, my guild which is doing Explosive Conflict right now can barely manage one, maybe two tanks at best. Our main tank is a tank alt and actually would rather DPS, but has to tank because there are none. The other tanks aren't on very much or are main spec DPS. Other than that, we have to get tanks from other guilds to tank for us because there are no tanks.

 

Bottom line, I don't care how rewarding tanking is in this game if there aren't even enough people who want to do it. I tanked a bit myself until I realized how bad everyone is. Every time a DPS would attack the wrong target it would make me rage and want to quit the group. Same with when a healer would ask for Guard, etc. Most people just don't know how to play and don't understand game mechanics. The game needs to be designed around that instead of ignoring it if it wants to survive any longer than it already will, which isn't that long judging by how many subs it's losing every quarter.

 

You say this as if a huge lack of tanks isn't an issue on every other MMO out there. it seems worse in this game compared to say WoW, because instead of pairing 3 dps per tank they pair 2 dps, raising the number of tanks needed per dps by (I believe 50%) the shortage isn't really a shortage. I'm a tank, and I find tanking in this game extremely gratifying, and would not want it dumbed down at all.

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Tanking in SWTOR isn't that hard, but it feels unrewarding somehow. As a healer and DPS I can feel my impact more on the flashpoint/Operation, whereas a tank I feel like a damage sponge that does some dps. But is tanking in SWTOR more difficult than tanking in WoW? No, not all. Is healing or dpsing in SWTOR more "fun" than tanking? Contextual, but in my experience, a little bit yes.
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Tanking in SWTOR isn't that hard, but it feels unrewarding somehow. As a healer and DPS I can feel my impact more on the flashpoint/Operation, whereas a tank I feel like a damage sponge that does some dps. But is tanking in SWTOR more difficult than tanking in WoW? No, not all. Is healing or dpsing in SWTOR more "fun" than tanking? Contextual, but in my experience, a little bit yes.

Interesting point. My tank is too low level to have a meaningful opinion on end-game stuff, but I do enjoy tanking lower-level flashpoints.

 

However, I will say that my respect for good tanks went way up when I first started EC. A sloppy Toth/Zorn swap can wipe the group. A smooth and well-executed T/Z swap is a beautiful thing -- like watching dinosaurs dance. :)

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Interesting point. My tank is too low level to have a meaningful opinion on end-game stuff, but I do enjoy tanking lower-level flashpoints.

 

like watching dinosaurs dance. :)

 

THERE ARE DANCING DINOSAURS IN SWTOR????!!!:eek::eek::eek:

 

I've seen dancing Trandoshans but are there actually dancing Rancors, or whatever dinosaur equivalent you are referring to??? AWESOME:):):)

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If I fail at tanking, people just explode. If damage dealers fail at DPS, you can't really tell until enrage kicks in, and even then it can be hard to pin down which DD was the problem, or maybe it was even a tank problem! Overall it's a pretty stressful job with a low payoff.
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honestly...i've never had so much tanking before in any other game. i've got a level 50 guardian, a level 50 shadow, and a level 50 powertech. all three are great fun to tank with (though my favorite has to be the guardian). i don't have a problem with getting knocked back, or stunned, or CCed in anyway. better me than the rest of my team.
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My main is a 50 Shadow Tank and I find it super easy to tank. I just recently did BoI (Super Skipping Though) and did just fine, while being very ill. (I also was with 2 commando and had to solely interrupt Servins attack since Commando's don't get their interrupt until 1.4 but anyway...).

 

It was still super easy, even being sick. I've done raids where everyone was wasted. I know it can seem hard at first, but once you learn how to deal with certain things (dps running ahead, multiple mobs, etc) you can adjust your play style to it. It takes time, no one can be good at a new class within two seconds of playing it. :)

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Tanking in this game is excellent. I love it! Its much more challenging than DPS and I love a good challenge.

 

PS. I assume you are a Guardian/Jugg if you're leaping and getting KB. Get Unremitting and this problem goes away.

 

Tanking in this game is excellent for Shadows and Assassin's speced for Tanking, however for Guardians (and I have a tank spec'd one) it sucks. My Shadow and Assassin can take on even elite enemies at least 1 or 2 levels above them and survive and thats when I am playing solo. My Guardian cant even kill a melee based elite thats the exact same level as it is and my JK's gear is the best for its level in both armor and stats (JK currently level 16). So speaking as my main which is an Assassin yes Tanking is great in this game but for a full tank spec Guardian it sucks. I dont know about Jug since mine just recently reached lvl 10 and gained its Advanced Class so I have no opinion on them.

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What? You don't like TOR tanking because it's hard? Seriously? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

A wise man once said (believe it or not, I am not this wise man) :"DPS is just for fun, healing is a responsibility, but tanking is a job!"

 

I agree with that, I find it funny when either my Assassin or Shadow (Both spec'd as full Tank) are the only ones still standing and everyone else (including the healer) is dead. Tanking in any MMO is a JOB in and of itself mainly because you have to work harder and be more ADAPTABLE to not only the game content but also to the style of play of every group member as well. Its this last area that is the hardest to do and I am shure others will agree with me on this. When I have tanked for groups the reason a group fails is not solely the Tanks fault (even though blaming the tank is the first thing everyone does no matter what) but the fault of the group by NOT WORKING TOGETHER. However I have noticed that the Assassin and Shadow Tanks can generate and maintain threat focus on them much better than the Guardians or Juggernauts can.

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Tanking in this game is excellent for Shadows and Assassin's speced for Tanking, however for Guardians (and I have a tank spec'd one) it sucks. My Shadow and Assassin can take on even elite enemies at least 1 or 2 levels above them and survive and thats when I am playing solo. My Guardian cant even kill a melee based elite thats the exact same level as it is and my JK's gear is the best for its level in both armor and stats (JK currently level 16). So speaking as my main which is an Assassin yes Tanking is great in this game but for a full tank spec Guardian it sucks. I dont know about Jug since mine just recently reached lvl 10 and gained its Advanced Class so I have no opinion on them.

 

that's because you're only level 16 (though mine never really had trouble killing elites). wait til you get higher in levels. you'll get more skills to help you survive and such. my guardian tank is level 50, also full tank specced, and it's really not that hard. i also find that while her DPS may not be up to par with my shadow tank, she can take a lot more abuse than he can. it's not her job to worry about how much damage she does anyways. that's for the DPS to worry about. her job is holding agro and taking hits, which she does wonderfully.

Edited by happysister
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that's because you're only level 16 (though mine never really had trouble killing elites). wait til you get higher in levels. you'll get more skills to help you survive and such. my guardian tank is level 50, also full tank specced, and it's really not that hard. i also find that while her DPS may not be up to par with my shadow tank, she can take a lot more abuse than he can. it's not her job to worry about how much damage she does anyways. that's for the DPS to worry about. her job is holding agro and taking hits, which she does wonderfully.

 

I understand that but when I cant even kill the level 16 elite for the JK Story mission on Ord Mantell (on my own) and my gear is the best for its level and I still lose then something is wrong (and my Shadow and Assassin Tanks could take more punishment and deal more damage at that same level).

Edited by Kyriosgundam
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I understand that but when I cant even kill the level 16 elite for the JK Story mission on Ord Mantell (on my own) and my gear is the best for its level and I still lose then something is wrong (and my Shadow and Assassin Tanks could take more punishment and deal more damage at that same level).

 

are you talking about the one in the hidden base or that...other guy?

 

 

the imperial in the base was easy pickings. i had a little more trouble with the sith because of his aoe and T7 not being smart enough to move out of the aoe radius, but it is still very doable. just remember to pop your CDs, move around a lot, take out the trash first, interrupt, etc. it is possible to solo that fight without dying.

 

 

EDIT: forgot the "other guy" isn't an elite. but still, that fight was harder than the one with the elite.

Edited by happysister
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I understand that but when I cant even kill the level 16 elite for the JK Story mission on Ord Mantell (on my own) and my gear is the best for its level and I still lose then something is wrong (and my Shadow and Assassin Tanks could take more punishment and deal more damage at that same level).

 

I loved leveling my Guardian tank, I don't remember any of the bosses because none of them were particularly tough. Interrupt, stun, CD and your golden. My assassin had a much tougher time until about level 35 but my PT (still only level 20) is just a cakewalk compared to both of them.

 

Also should note that at level 16 you are still essentially a DPS with heavy armour and a taunt. Plus Focus management is horrible in Soresu early on. Guardian tanking really blooms at about level 30 and just goes up from there. Its tough early but much easier than Assassin pre-Harnessed Darkness.

 

Some tips for that fight:

- Send T7 in first and taunt off him when he reaches about 25%

- Make sure you have a stim and medpack handy

- Use your stun

- Build 5 stacks of Sunder before you Master Strike

- Kill the adds first

- Consider running in Sho-Chii form for extra DPS/Focus

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If you have wondered why there are not enough tanks queuing for HM's and raiding, you only have to look at the mechanics in this game.

 

I have tanked in just about every MMORPG I have played. I mostly enjoy it. I tank in this game. I find myself pulling my hair out more often than not. Just about half of everything in this game stuns the tank, or knocks me back 100 feet and snares me, or CC's me, or stuns me, knocks me back and CC"s me. It isn't fun, it isn't strategic, it's just frustrating and terrible. Even trash does this consistently. Stuns and knock backs should be used extremely sparingly. You have given NPC's so many powers that only players should have.

 

The issue is exacerbated because DPS tend to just jump in .01 second after me and start blasting on the thing. Meanwhile I'm two miles away because I've been knocked back into the last room and am snared and/or rooted and some idiot Marauder is getting laid on by some huge robot and complaining that I can't hold threat.

 

Yes I realize they should play smarter but you have to design around these kinds of issues.

 

Tanks have enough to deal with keeping threat on everything. We don't need to deal with getting stunned and shot around the room every pull.

 

Just to reiterate the prevailing response to the OP, tanking in this game is fine - no - it's at a really nice sweet spot that feels gratifying and fun while not being faceroll. Stuns, KBs, interrupts - those things should never be player-only. To remove those from mobs would be tantamount to removing a huge portion of fun from tanking, not to mention strategy.

 

Yes, it is strategic for mobs to have and use those powers, just as it is strategic for us to counter them. Our job is to control the battlefield. If the mobs merely stood in place and accepted the occasional Smash, Sweeping Strike, and Taunts to maintain control then the role of tank would be watered down to the point of meh. The fact that I have to know who does what, who must be interrupted, who must be pushed/pulled where, how best to shape the battlefield to the advantage of my group - that is the essence of tanking. That is what makes tanking fun, and what most players who tank enjoy.

 

To be sure, tanking is not a job for everyone. It is not a role I would ever force upon a guildie or random stranger because we need a role filled. It is a job that requires that you not just know what you're doing, but enjoy it - otherwise, you'll be shoving that role onto someone else and hitting up the Skill Mentor in no time.

 

If the frustration of the role is lessening your enjoyment of the game - respec. Not everyone enjoys every role.

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My problems as vanguard tank - keeping aoe aggro. If I use aoe attakcs, ill burn my ammo in 5 seconds and then I'm useless. And even if dps is attacking 1 target, rest of mobs will go for healers. I have feeling that guardians can keep mobs easyer, don't know if I'm right., don't they haver better way of gaining focus, every time they are hit? Edited by TheRampage
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^ What he said. Our tank yesterday did the same, start with saber throw, never jumping in as a starter. He was good, didn1t really have to heal him, only a fresh 50 dps merc, healed my you know what out to keep him alive :D

 

Jumping in should be safe, because if you are tanking without Unremitting/Unstoppable you are doing it wrong.

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i respectfully disagree, tanking in this game does not suck. I too have tanked in many MMO, last to date was wow (and the mot popular, so the one most people can relate to). Tanking in that game was mindnumbingly easy, with 500% increase threat and powerful AOE, you blast in god mode throughtout any dungeon, topping damage and never at risk of dying.... boring!

 

In star wars, tanking is different. First of all, you generate more aggro than any dps but not light years ahead, so you do have to keep a good rotation to keep the aggro.

And yes, in this game, mobs fight back!! Awesome. it make tanking more engaging, more dynamic

You have tools at your disposal.

 

If you are stun, you can break stun with the 2minute cooldown ability that everyclass have.

If you are knowk back, you can charge or sprint in.

this is basic stuff, but always tank with your back to a wall

More often than not, knock back or stun are actually cast than can be interrupt

almost every mob (except boss and some champion) can be stun, so use it.

your taunt has 30 meter range, don't wait you are in melee range to use it.

 

Finally i'll finish by my guild forum signature

"DPS is science, healing is art, tanking is strategy"

Tanking IS strategy, know the pull, plan ahead

 

Bioware, if you are listening, awesome design in tanking. please never revert back to zombie tanking like in wow, keep us engage in combat.

 

I beg to differ! DPS is no science in this game. DPS is FACEROLL!!

 

But tanking requires a good knowledge of game mechanics, thats what makes it really interesting. Im just really disappointed about the fact that BW for some weird reason has decided to make the life of Warrior tanks as hard as possible compared to the other classes for no compensation but the honor of being pro.

 

Still im really enjoying tanking with my Jugger most of the time, although often looking with great envy at the other classes amazing tank stats... Sigh...

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I beg to differ! DPS is no science in this game. DPS is FACEROLL!!

 

But tanking requires a good knowledge of game mechanics, thats what makes it really interesting. Im just really disappointed about the fact that BW for some weird reason has decided to make the life of Warrior tanks as hard as possible compared to the other classes for no compensation but the honor of being pro.

 

Still im really enjoying tanking with my Jugger most of the time, although often looking with great envy at the other classes amazing tank stats... Sigh...

 

note, GOOD dps is science.

with accent on GOOD

I love spending lots of time on my ship chagning rotations jsut to get that extra 35 dps... :)

and i know many feel same way.

Edited by Atramar
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I, like all but one other person that has replied to this thread, disagree that tanking sucks. I think that tanking is a great deal of fun, tanking requires a lot of attention to detail, and so is not for everyone. A good tank is one that keeps cool even in a ****** situation, and plans out best what they can do to make it less ******.

 

Before each pull I will look at the enemies, and I will say, okay, what does each of these guys do? That guy is melee? Okay I will let him run over to me, that guy is ranged, I will need to pull him into AoE range. Which ones do I want cc on, should I use my grapple on this guy to pull him away from the group after he is cced to allow for better AoE, or should I pull the one that is ranged and hits hard into position for better AoE? A good tank has a plan beforehand, and if they are familiar with the fight they know exactly what they are going to do before the fight even starts, but at the same time need to be level headed enough to realize, okay, my plan has gone to ****, what do I need to do now? I really hope they don't dumb down tanking, because I very much enjoy it.

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Just chiming in to say, tanking is great in this game. Trash tanking isn't that fun, but with the increase to aoe threat made a lot more manageable. The trash in the new Op is a bit more fun too. The way taunting works might want to be reworked in future as except for use of bosses dropping threat, threat becomes pretty trivial after the first 30-60seconds on a single mob or boss.

 

It definitely doesn't need more dumbing down. It's challenging enough to be fun and strategic but not too easy as to just be a walking meat shield who just stands there doing nothing.

 

As for PvP I think tanks are decent there too tbh. They're great for defending objectives, staying alive until backup arrives, and fantastic in huttball. Aswell as being very useful with guard and taunts to protect allies and reduce damage. I'm not saying they couldn't be tweaked a bit...but to say tanking sucks is a gross exaggeration.

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Seriously, do u guys not find tanking in this game faceroll easy?

 

I honestly cant believe how mind-numbing easy tanking is in this game! I dread to think what WoW was like if that was even easier! I play a shadow. I prefer DPS, so I've got full BH/campaign dps gear. My tank gear isn't too bad, maybe 50% BH, 50% rakata.

 

Honestly, every single fight in this game is easy to tank. I don't know about other tanks, but as a shadow I have very few attacks in my rotatation: slow time, project, telekinetic throw, double strike, force breach, spinning strike, saber strike. Thats only 7 skills! That means my rotation is ridiculously simple. Despite being simple, I virtually never lose aggro. I do not use taunt to increase my aggro like some tanks, I tend to save it for emergencies and tank swopping and yet its easy to hold aggro off full campaign sentinels doing 1600+ dps.

 

The knockbacks etc that the OP was talking about? WHERE?!?! Everywhere that tanking matters, i.e. bosses, does not seem to have these mechanics. The only place where you get excessive knockbacks and stuns is on trash pulls and it just does not matter there! DPS can take a lot of hits from trash, we all have cooldowns. Its just not an issue.

 

 

What confuses me more is how some tanks are bad! I can understand being undergeared, but when you are same gear level as your DPS, you should NEVER lose aggro on single target fights. Boss swopping is fecking easy due to taunt being on such a low cooldown. Every tank has gap closing / mobility skills. ITS EASY!!!

 

 

So, I do actually agree that tanking in this game sucks, but not for the same reasons as the OP.

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