I have two seperate things to say, they might sound contradictory but they aren't.

I do NOT think this needs to be nerfed. i have very much enoyed the challenge. I had guildmates help with the first two heroic 4s, and that was fine. BUT...

there is a design "flaw" that needs to be changed in the final shroud H4, and thats the part where all 4 group members must actively be on the quest to hit the puzzle buttons. i dont think finding a group would be so hard if you could have anyone help you, but contrary to a previous post they must all be on the quest to get past the second room at. changing this may fix most peoples problems.

but no i dont want them to nerf the difficulty.

Only the console requires a quest holder, other buttons can be pressed by non questers.

But it seems the quest bugs at the 4 droids before last boss unless everyone does not have the quest, which stopped my group on it's tracks tonight.

I have two seperate things to say, they might sound contradictory but they aren't.

I do NOT think this needs to be nerfed. i have very much enoyed the challenge. I had guildmates help with the first two heroic 4s, and that was fine. BUT...

there is a design "flaw" that needs to be changed in the final shroud H4, and thats the part where all 4 group members must actively be on the quest to hit the puzzle buttons. i dont think finding a group would be so hard if you could have anyone help you, but contrary to a previous post they must all be on the quest to get past the second room at. changing this may fix most peoples problems.

but no i dont want them to nerf the difficulty.

This makes sense to me.

We should have eldergame channel where messages would show to 50+ characters only.

Nar shaddaa (and Ilum) are quite empty for these h4 end missions. Or group finder for them.

Spent an hour looking for group on shaddaa and we 2 man the first part. Then looked for another hour, got 2 more but had to do the first again for one groupie.

I don't know what they were thinking when they made the last parts into Heroics that anyone would only ever do once. Good luck finding a group in a few months. I spent an entire evening trying to get a group and then doing the missions and you'd think there are still plenty of people who didn't rush through the questlines around.

The missions themselves aren't that hard, I think. But it's true that they might be too hard if you get unlucky with a group since getting a new one will take ages yet again. I got lucky. Great group - communication worked fantastically, we listened to each other and discussed strategy after wiping once. We then defeated the Shroud easily and overall the mission was actually quite fun.

Same with Alchemy of Evil - got lucky with three people from the same guild who picked me up on their way to the quest. But before that I sat on Ilum/Makeb, trying to get a group for an hour. I made the mistake of asking for a group in the middle of a troll conversation on Makeb and had one of them whisper me only to tell me they didn't want to do it, thanks. (i wasn't spamming or anything.)

I think making two versions of the quest would have been the right solution - solo quest with less of a reward (fewer credits etc.) and the Heroic with more of a reward than we have now.

3 and half hours.

1 and half hours to get a group together

half an hour trying to get everyone into same phase of the quest (i had done the first quest, and part of second, earlier, and had to reset quest, which for some reason i could not do at first).

Hour or so of questing.

half an hour of sitting in front of a locked door hoping for GM reply because quest bugs and fails to update just before last boss.

quest left undone.

will try again today, i hope.

Needs to be nerfd.. Finding a group is almost impossible, and then when you get to the last boss and you wipe everyone quits and you have to look for another group for the next 2-4 days with absolutely 0 whispers..

 

It's bull crap.. it should be nerfd so it can be 2 manned

I think so to I have been able to solo all to this point i should not have to get in a group to finish but I would be ok with two man

Only the console requires a quest holder, other buttons can be pressed by non questers.

But it seems the quest bugs at the 4 droids before last boss unless everyone does not have the quest, which stopped my group on it's tracks tonight.

My guild encountered the same problem. The "funny" thing is : one of our guildmates (who had not done the quest yet) helped another group to finish it (no problem) and that group helped him to do the whole quest after that and encountered no problem to finish it. It prooves that it is possible to finish the quest even if one or more people in the group have yet completed it.

Tonight 4 of my guildmates (the one who had done it before and 3 other who where excatly at the same step of the quest) tried the quest and where stuck after the 4 droids before the last boss (they killed the droids and nothing happened). They tried to reinitialize... same problem after the droids.

Another bug they noticed : the droid just after the light bridge wasn't active (they walked by it and went to the 4 droid room, couldn't even select it). Our guidmate who had done it before said : the first time when he helped people doing it the droid was inavctive but when he did his second session (to complete his quest) the droid was active...

Seems really more a bug to me than a simple "only people who haven't finished the quest can do it"

(sorry for my approximate english... and hello from France )

My guild encountered the same problem. The "funny" thing is : one of our guildmates (who had not done the quest yet) helped another group to finish it (no problem) and that group helped him to do the whole quest after that and encountered no problem to finish it. It prooves that it is possible to finish the quest even if one or more people in the group have yet completed it.

Tonight 4 of my guildmates (the one who had done it before and 3 other who where excatly at the same step of the quest) tried the quest and where stuck after the 4 droids before the last boss (they killed the droids and nothing happened). They tried to reinitialize... same problem after the droids.

 

Another bug they noticed : the droid just after the light bridge wasn't active (they walked by it and went to the 4 droid room, couldn't even select it). Our guidmate who had done it before said : the first time when he helped people doing it the droid was inavctive but when he did his second session (to complete his quest) the droid was active...

 

Seems really more a bug to me than a simple "only people who haven't finished the quest can do it"

 

(sorry for my approximate english... and hello from France )

Yes, it's a bug, i said it was a bug in my post.

Not everyone will get it, but that does not make it any less annoying to the people it does happen, especially as how hard it can be to find a group for it.

Putting a heroic 4 man at the end a long chain of solo quests is bad design, and certain to annoy fairly large chunk of the people doing it.

I think so to I have been able to solo all to this point i should not have to get in a group to finish but I would be ok with two man

1. A two man group is still a group

2. Did you complain about the ilum quest chain containing False emperor and Battle for Ilum? (Both 4-man's at the end of a solo quest chain)

People really need to look at this from different point of view. Sure putting H4 at the end of solo chain is unorthodox, maybe even unfair. But that's life, deal with it or walk away. Life isn't fair either. These quests push the game experience to the next level IMO and it would be shame to trivialize them in any way. And when u actually do it, u have good feeling about that hard work u put into it and the unique reward or a title u get has some value compared to others.

Like, toooooooooootally deep, duuuuude. /slow high-five

1. A two man group is still a group

2. Did you complain about the ilum quest chain containing False emperor and Battle for Ilum? (Both 4-man's at the end of a solo quest chain)

False and Battle are repeatable and in the group finder so it's easier to find a group.

False and Battle are repeatable and in the group finder so it's easier to find a group.

It's easier but who in the right mind would list for BOI at this time in the game?

I think getting a group for BOI sm is just as hard as getting a group for the other two h4's

(False Emp is a bit easier, but it's still pretty hard to get a group, because of the hk-part)

Yes, it's a bug, i said it was a bug in my post.

Not everyone will get it, but that does not make it any less annoying to the people it does happen, especially as how hard it can be to find a group for it.

My post wasn't an attack against yours sorry if it looked like it did. I quoted it because it described exactly the situation of my guildmates.

Putting a heroic 4 man at the end a long chain of solo quests is bad design, and certain to annoy fairly large chunk of the people doing it.

I don't agree on this point (because if I want to play solo I don't load on a MMO) The fact is that if the quest wasn't bugged it would be a lot less annoying ^^

1. A two man group is still a group

2. Did you complain about the ilum quest chain containing False emperor and Battle for Ilum? (Both 4-man's at the end of a solo quest chain)

1 I know 2man is still a group never said it wasn't.

2 I'm not complaing I just dont understand why i should have to get in a group to finish a quest chain thats end is not repetable.

3 2mans are for the most part have the ablity to be soloed.

I don't agree on this point (because if I want to play solo I don't load on a MMO) The fact is that if the quest wasn't bugged it would be a lot less annoying ^^

I do not mind heroic quests, although i do hate it when the whole group requirement is due to amount of clickies needed to be used at the same time, but making a looooong solo quest chain, then suddenly slamming a 4 man heroic at the end, makes it lot hard to find groups that are all on the same stage.

Especially if/when many people don't bother with the chain to begin with, or, especially if the heroic4s are in places where people of appropriate level are otherwise unlikely to be.

And yes, it not being bugged would be awesome.

Here is MY issue with this questline: the entire thing leading up to the final battle is designes to be soloed. At the end you're going to go and switch it on us and demand that we need not just one other person but THREE? I am ok with missions being challenging but you need to be realistic.

And while I am on my soapbox:

One of the best qualities about SWTOR that made it a better MMO than others was that by grouping up with other people, you were able to accomplish more in a slightly easier fashion. With the exspansion, all misssions you groul ip with become HARDER! Not just twice as hard for two people but almost four times harder if you just add ine additional player to the group. Where is the motivation to group up with other players if it is going to make your game play a head ache. Thirty minutes for a group of four to kill the Archon? ARE YOUR SERIOUS?!?!

And oh yeah, I am glad there are level 55 flashpoints but who's idea was it to make the healers job even MORE difficult than it already was? They already had the hardest job in the group! STUPID DESIGN CHOICE!

It's been 2 weeks now without finding a group. Soloing it as far as I could, I discovered you only need 3 players to press the buttons.

EDIT. Only works for the first 3 buttons.

Here is MY issue with this questline: the entire thing leading up to the final battle is designes to be soloed. At the end you're going to go and switch it on us and demand that we need not just one other person but THREE? I am ok with missions being challenging but you need to be realistic.

 

And while I am on my soapbox:

 

One of the best qualities about SWTOR that made it a better MMO than others was that by grouping up with other people, you were able to accomplish more in a slightly easier fashion. With the exspansion, all misssions you groul ip with become HARDER! Not just twice as hard for two people but almost four times harder if you just add ine additional player to the group. Where is the motivation to group up with other players if it is going to make your game play a head ache. Thirty minutes for a group of four to kill the Archon? ARE YOUR SERIOUS?!?!

 

And oh yeah, I am glad there are level 55 flashpoints but who's idea was it to make the healers job even MORE difficult than it already was? They already had the hardest job in the group! STUPID DESIGN CHOICE!

All the things that you find frustrating, make the game even more fun for me:

- scaling with group size is cool, so we still have a bit of a challange, if we group up

- I loved the h4's at the end of the quest chains, it was so much fun to figure things out with three other players

- the new fp's are not just roflstomp at the moment and the dps actually have to watch not to pull aggro.

(I play as healer as well as tank)

(We had around 5 min maybe 10 min with 3 people for archon, don't know how you took 30 min there)