Hmm. Good point! Pessimism is okay. That is a good way of looking at it actually. With 3 days to enter the matches or ops, it may slow things down. It would only give us a population. There should certainly be SOME people that would give faster pop times for WZs. At least a small increase.

 

I actually hope they change the whole limited warzone bit. 3 seems like a very small number. That's... a weekend. Maybe they'll be more incline to have some open PvP on planets?

 

Also, no worries, Chiltonium. =) Your PM helped and I think we both misunderstood. <3 All good.

I agree. I think that at the very least they should allow F2P enough warzones to do their weekly. Let them pay for ranked WZs. Flashpoints should be once a day. Pay for more. Operations, sure let them pay for that.

I agree. I think that at the very least they should allow F2P enough warzones to do their weekly. Let them pay for ranked WZs. Flashpoints should be once a day. Pay for more. Operations, sure let them pay for that.

I dont see an issue with their f2p model, I find it to be quite generous!

Not that that was what this thread was about

I feel casual players get their fill. If you're doing more than what is offered, you're not really "casual," you play enough to warrant a subscription.

For example my buddy works 12 hour days with duty once a week that takes up 36 hours (24 hour duty followed by a 12 hour shift) 3 WZ, 3 FP, would be just fine for him, he doesnt have a lot of time to play.

I play daily and do FPs / WZ frequently, and I love to do operations. Id say 5 + hours a day, I will pay, and gladly

I am also one of the mainly pve-ers /raiders. I do pvp occasionaly . I am also with half of my guild a Ajunta Pall transfer and we enjoy it here on Jung Ma. The Gentleman's Club of Coruscant was a Ajunta Pall guild before the mergers and we have good attendence here. As being part of a raiding guild , the que times for pvp doesn't tick me off.I que with guildies and we get a pop in a reasonable amount of time. I am getting a bit sick of the whole "this server is dead" thing. From my perspective it is nice that i can go to BH and compleate objectives with no wait for mobs to respawn. It would ruin the enjoyment of the game for me as the game was like it was in january of this year. Getting constentaly ganked by the other faction every few minuets on leveling worlds- i do not miss it. The first event, rember the the massive amount of ganking on Tatoonie? I almost un-subbed from frustration of trying to complete the story. I enjoy the mature atmosphere on the server I also think our attendence on the server is not as bad a the naysayers want to convey. I know the free to play will bring a influx of players . I don't understand where people get the sense of entitlement.

I enjoy what this server has for quality players.

As the leader of <Clan Epsis> I can say we are eagerly awaiting the F2P. We mainly PvP (but we have begun to dabble in PvE to provide our guild members more opportunities to experience all forms of game play), so we've felt some impact as the ebbs and flows of member interest and WZ queues come and go...

... but the beauty of RP is that player created content makes up for any lack of post 50 content blues! There is nothing more exciting that hunting for a player on a planet knowing they don't know you're gunning for them to RP and perhaps PvP with them .

I do feel the community of Jung Ma (those not spending their time whining on the forums for a transfer) have really come together to create fun events for other members. I don't see RPers having issues with Jung Ma; I think people who are complaining aren't medium-heavy RPers and thus their culture does not mesh with that of the intent of the server: an RP community that can openly attack people without having to flag or duel (which can often detract form the atmosphere and the immersion). They expected a PvP community… and it’s unfortunate that they didn’t really examine the parameters of this server.

I have made many friends on this server... and I see no reason why Jung Ma should be merged with any other server... after all, I'll emmulated what Ralden stated; we are the LAST RP-PvP server... and our community does both. Stick us in an RP server and we lose the PvP element. Stick us in a PvP server and the opposite becomes true.

I sincerely hope that Bioware opens WZs between all servers instead of merging our tight knit community with some unknown one.

I have made many friends on this server... and I see no reason why Jung Ma should be merged with any other server... after all, I'll emmulated what Ralden stated; we are the LAST RP-PvP server... and our community does both. Stick us in an RP server and we lose the PvP element. Stick us in a PvP server and the opposite becomes true.

This.

I love Jung Ma. I don't want to be stuck on a PvP server with little RP. I play to RP. But then again, I don't want to be stuck on an RP server without PvP. It's unfair to those of us who want this. And it will deter players if there are no RPPvP servers.

I believe that F2P will bring more people, and hopefully boost the number of subs.

I also want to point out a point I made on another thread--people who go on the forums and complain are a small amount compared to the people who are happy. Because people who are happy don't usually try to show it--they just go on and do what they like doing. It's when people are upset they show it. How many times have you seen a person in Best Buy walk up to a manager and go , "That cashier... was awesome. She rang up my items in a timely manner" ? You don't really. Granted there are times where they are, and that's who we are. We are the people who are posting that we love Jung Ma. There are other people who don't even visit the forums--ever. And they are happier than a clam.

Look at that side of things. You'll see more people than not are happy with Jung Ma... and count me as one of them.

I also want to point out a point I made on another thread--people who go on the forums and complain are a small amount compared to the people who are happy. Because people who are happy don't usually try to show it--they just go on and do what they like doing. It's when people are upset they show it. How many times have you seen a person in Best Buy walk up to a manager and go , "That cashier... was awesome. She rang up my items in a timely manner" ? You don't really. Granted there are times where they are, and that's who we are. We are the people who are posting that we love Jung Ma. There are other people who don't even visit the forums--ever. And they are happier than a clam.

 

Look at that side of things. You'll see more people than not are happy with Jung Ma... and count me as one of them.

^ This. Just to demonstrate to Bioware that just because the negative nancys are begging for a server merger /transfer, not all of us want it.

^ This. Just to demonstrate to Bioware that just because the negative nancys are begging for a server merger /transfer, not all of us want it.

Agreed, I don't to leave here. I like it here

I also want to point out a point I made on another thread--people who go on the forums and complain are a small amount compared to the people who are happy. Because people who are happy don't usually try to show it--they just go on and do what they like doing. It's when people are upset they show it. How many times have you seen a person in Best Buy walk up to a manager and go , "That cashier... was awesome. She rang up my items in a timely manner" ? You don't really. Granted there are times where they are, and that's who we are. We are the people who are posting that we love Jung Ma. There are other people who don't even visit the forums--ever. And they are happier than a clam.

 

Look at that side of things. You'll see more people than not are happy with Jung Ma... and count me as one of them.

I won't counter the argument that the forums of this game -- and any game really -- are composed of a small amount of the overall population. I will content that positive and negative feedback don't always make their way here though or any forum for that matter. The reason is simple -- most people aren't bothered to jump into a usually vicious message board platform and voice their opinion.

I'll use your own example to make my point. A person has a bad experience at Best Buy. They decide to leave the store -- and never shop there again. They do not complain to the manager of the store, or the employee that wronged them, or write a letter to corporate. They simply don't shop there any more. This happens more frequently than people actually complaining.

So while I would love for the opportunity to leave Jung Ma to a more subscriber populated PvP server, I'm but maybe 2-3 people from my guild that actually post on these forums. The other 45-50 active members I have rarely come here, even to browse, and 95% of them also want to leave the server.

So I wouldn't assume that people who don't post here like things the way they are.

IA person has a bad experience at Best Buy. They decide to leave the store -- and never shop there again. They do not complain to the manager of the store, or the employee that wronged them, or write a letter to corporate. They simply don't shop there any more. This happens more frequently than people actually complaining.

Normally I agree with you... and you're right in regards to physical businesses, but gamer's are a different demographic. To validate their own decision to stop playing a game (or just because they are annoyed they invested the time only to get fed up with it for some reason, etc.), they often trash the game on social media sites (Facespace, etc.), and forums, yet they clearly do not play. I see it frequently. "Thank god I don't play anymore" is a fairly standard introductory clause in posts made by people that want to bash on the game, the developers, etc. That is because to post a complaint takes little to no time. These individuals linger on forums as well.

I like the people here and my guild is great/active however the population is beyond horrible and has caused me and most of my friends to unsub. I had a guild of about 40 people at one point and they've all left due to this horrible crowd. I have been subbed without playing for over two months just raking in cartel points until they finally let me off this rock.

A self sufficient guild is NOT fun. A MMO NEEDS people. Different people. The idea is MANY different BIG guilds. MANY social interactions with DIFFERENT people. MORE PVP.

I like PvP AND PvE. But i've had to quit pvp on this server since it's so terrible. The idea is not for RBG's to just "pop" the system (elo system) is meant to matchmake you with people close. If you are a terrible team you are suppose to go against a terrible team so you don't get destroyed.

On Jung ma it's whoever the two that existed by the luck of the universe at the time regardless of rating and thus the better team will win. Or it'll be the same 2-4 teams over and over and over.

I'd create a new toon but I have too much to possibly quit this toon now. The second I get to transfer off I'll be off. At this point I would literally pay 250 dollars to leave right now and not buy my new razer keyboard.

Meh.

Normally I agree with you... and you're right in regards to physical businesses, but gamer's are a different demographic. To validate their own decision to stop playing a game (or just because they are annoyed they invested the time only to get fed up with it for some reason, etc.), they often trash the game on social media sites (Facespace, etc.), and forums, yet they clearly do not play. I see it frequently. "Thank god I don't play anymore" is a fairly standard introductory clause in posts made by people that want to bash on the game, the developers, etc. That is because to post a complaint takes little to no time. These individuals linger on forums as well.

Statisically the people on an MMO's forum only make up around 10-20% of the games player base. The rest use it only for serious questions once every couple months or never at all.

So what you are seeing is a vocal few. Keep in mind this game has lost over a million players. Only a couple 100 are complaining on these forums. The same small % that is complaining to best buy. Just when they complain to best buy only best buy notices. Here on the forums everyone notices so they seem much larger in numbers.

Obviously you guys don't read general chat on the space stations. About once an hour someone comments on how the population sucks. They don't have to post on the forums to say what they think.

As far as the thousands that left the game when they first refused to merge servers, well most of them did not post on the forums either but I bet you all wish they did now. I think it will take another mass exodus for you people to get your head out of the sand.

Please look at SWTOR's Facebook page. That is where I see a majority of the complaining... and it far outweighs the positive feedback. I'm not counting posts that give objective critisicms... I'm talking about posts that aim to hurt the reputation of the game without any evidence to suggest the post was made in an attempt to give Bioware useable information as to how or why they are "messing up" or "failing".

https://www.facebook.com/starwarstheoldrepublic

I feel the aim of this post was to increase the positive comments from the “vocal few” to balance the scales a bit. It doesn’t detract from the fact that people are always more vocal when they are upset versus when they are content. Ask any customer service industry for those metrics- that was the point we were making. It doesn't matter how many people have played the game or not who are complaining about things in the game; they are not customers. What really should matter to Bioware is the opinions of those who continues to play the game... and our point is that the people who enjoy SWTOR aren't vocal enough to counter balance the negativity present of the people who don't enjoy it. The neutral statements such as questions, builds, etc. are irrelevent to this discussion.

EDIT: Sorry.. it's late and I continually disliked the method in which I was presenting my thoughts.

I feel the aim of this post was to increase the positive comments from the “vocal few” to balance the scales a bit.

Just to be sure -- don't mistake my wanting to move to a different server as being unhappy with the game. I LOVE this game. I will be here for years. Probably until they shut the doors. I have brought many people to this game and the majority of them are still playing; though probably because I'm still playing.

My only gripe is I want to consistently participate in ranked warzones, win or lose. Last night was the first night we got a ranked pop in 2 weeks. It was the first night we went against an Imperial team in a month. I'm tired of banging heads with my Republic brothers and sisters, when they do queue. I know other servers do not have this problem.

Jung Ma has some great people and great guilds in it. However, the "PVP" part of RP-PVP is sorely lacking and F2P isn't going to fix that. Also, new players generally gravitate toward the more populated servers because they want to play with others. Jung Ma is going to have trouble attracting people.

Please look at SWTOR's Facebook page. That is where I see a majority of the complaining... and it far outweighs the positive feedback. I'm not counting posts that give objective critisicms... I'm talking about posts that aim to hurt the reputation of the game without any evidence to suggest the post was made in an attempt to give Bioware useable information as to how or why they are "messing up" or "failing".

 

https://www.facebook.com/starwarstheoldrepublic

 

I feel the aim of this post was to increase the positive comments from the “vocal few” to balance the scales a bit. It doesn’t detract from the fact that people are always more vocal when they are upset versus when they are content. Ask any customer service industry for those metrics- that was the point we were making. It doesn't matter how many people have played the game or not who are complaining about things in the game; they are not customers. What really should matter to Bioware is the opinions of those who continues to play the game... and our point is that the people who enjoy SWTOR aren't vocal enough to counter balance the negativity present of the people who don't enjoy it. The neutral statements such as questions, builds, etc. are irrelevent to this discussion.

 

EDIT: Sorry.. it's late and I continually disliked the method in which I was presenting my thoughts.

I <3 TOR - It's the best game I've ever played. I've got the TOR razer mouse - Am purchasing the TOR headset and afterwards the TOR keyboard - I have been subbed since launch - got pre-order access on dec 13th - and played BETA

I have no problem with TOR as a game - The reason I don't play it is because Jung Ma ****'s so bad that despite my obsession with this game I can't enjoy it due to the lack of existence when it comes to people.

Also, new players generally gravitate toward the more populated servers because they want to play with others. Jung Ma is going to have trouble attracting people.

SWG towards the end allowed free transfers and every dead server was so happy - all of them posted on their forums "new people will be coming to us! it'll be great" - what happened instead was not only did they not get a single transfer but a lot of their own people left too.

No F2P person with half a brain who hasn't played before will be coming to jung ma when they see the server numbers. And F2P gets limited PvP/PvE anyways. Not to mention leveling and gearing time for all the new people will make it be a LOT longer than just F2P launch for us to even start seeing some new gear 50's to play even if they do come.

My only gripe is I want to consistently participate in ranked warzones, win or lose. Last night was the first night we got a ranked pop in 2 weeks. It was the first night we went against an Imperial team in a month. I'm tired of banging heads with my Republic brothers and sisters, when they do queue. I know other servers do not have this problem.

This requires a fix... I agree. There is more than one solution to this problem... and one is making ranked WZs cross server. It would certainly give people a more comprehensive idea about the competition... AND reduce queue times. I almost think this is a necessity with standard WZs as well... but I don't ever have issues with WZ queue times (though I suspect I might if ranked WZs became more accessible, as they would stop queuing for WZs).

Just thinking simplistically by stating "LET ME TRANSFER" is not really looking at the root cause of the issue.

Oh and this server's designation does mean PvP in all forms, but specifically world PvP. Anyone can go to any server and queue for WZs... the reason Jung Ma is unique is because it offers the opportunity to be out in the world role-playing and then get jumped by an aggressor. Its offer of spontaneity within RP is more realistic and thus attractive to a special demographic such as yours truly. When I RP, if a member of the opposing faction runs up to me, I don't get to hide behind the mechanics of the game if that individual wants to kill me.

No other server has that... and if we merge... we lose it.

No F2P person with half a brain who hasn't played before will be coming to jung ma when they see the server numbers. And F2P gets limited PvP/PvE anyways. Not to mention leveling and gearing time for all the new people will make it be a LOT longer than just F2P launch for us to even start seeing some new gear 50's to play even if they do come.

Which is why it seems that joining an RP-PvP server might benefit "free to play" players. There is no limit on world PvP... there is no limits on RP. F2P often attracts an RP crowd because not all of them want (or even care) to do content provided by the developers... sometimes they just enjoy the aspect of RPing in a new environment. I do this with LOTRO. I haven't paid a penny for that game even though it severely limits my ability to play because that was not the focus of the reason why I began to play. Granted some F2P people will simply choose an RP server because of it's population and their lack of a desire to PvP... but there still exists a particular demographic or RPers that WILL wish for an RP-PvP server. To make a blanket statement that demeans people if they chose our server is just asinine and frankly just another motivator for people to avoid our server.

There are many motives behind server selection... and not ALL of them involve population. Some involve community. Some involve the perception that they might be more likely to get the character name they want on a lower population server. Some of it is based on current friends in game.

You say that...but you are severely mistaken. But as I said let's pretend you are right for a moment. With the limitations of F2P players and lack of ability to play it will be 1-3 months before we begin to see geared level 50's on our server even assuming a LOT of people come to Jung Ma (which they won't) by then the people who are on this server and unhappy (most of them) will be even angrier and by then according to bioware we will be able to leave and be gone. So it's a moot point anyways.

No matter what this server is *****ed

You say that...but you are severely mistaken. But as I said let's pretend you are right for a moment. With the limitations of F2P players and lack of ability to play it will be 1-3 months before we begin to see geared level 50's on our server even assuming a LOT of people come to Jung Ma (which they won't) by then the people who are on this server and unhappy (most of them) will be even angrier and by then according to bioware we will be able to leave and be gone. So it's a moot point anyways.

 

No matter what this server is *****ed

What information outside of your opinion are you basing your logic on? With generic statements like yours, it comes down to "he said, she said," arguments. You cannot prove you are correct anymore than I can. I'm basing my statements on my 10 years of experience as an RPer in MMOs, and you might be as well... or not. I agree the point is moot. People who are unhappy will remain so... I'm not debating that. However let me remind you that this discussion is not based on unhappy individuals. It's based on people who ARE happy with it (hence the name of the thread). I never stated that F2P players will severely help with the server population; I was simply stating that there are multiple factors people refuse to consider in regards to an individual’s server selection outside of server population… and that is NOT a mistake.

People who are currently happy with Jung Ma see f2P as a boon because if they are already happy... more players, however significant or insignificant, will only be a good thing in their mind… and why not? Not all 50s CARE about the lower population. This thread clearly demonstrates that. I’m optimistic that Bioware will realize that cross server Operation queues and WZ queues are inevitable… rendering this complaint moot as well. I'm ok with open transfers for those unhappy people (because frankly, I’m tired of seeing it even though I never understood why a non-RPer would select a RP-PvP server to begin with if they don’t prefer one play style that the designation indicates). What I am not ok with is server merges because of aforementioned reasons.

...

You mentioned a ton of things in your post so I'll just bullet point my responses.

• Yes, a server having a PvP designation mainly means world PvP. However, it also means that the harder core PvP players are going to role on them versus going to a PvE server just so you can run warzones. You just (usually) won't find the same level of competition on a PvE server.
  
• Cross-server queues would definitely solve the ranked warzone problem, but Bioware has repeatedly stated they are not going to do cross-server warzones or group finder. What does that leave us with? Asking for transfers, a system they already have in place and provided to Ajunta Pall originals.
  
• Sure, RP players who are looking for a free RP fix may come to this server. But over Ebon Hawk? Why would they, it's more populated, which means more RP opportunities. So no help there. Plus, not being paid subscribers means no ranked warzone access so that doesn't help solve that problem. Also, RP people are a minority of an MMO community.
  

You mentioned a ton of things in your post so I'll just bullet point my responses.

[*]Yes, a server having a PvP designation mainly means world PvP. However, it also means that the harder core PvP players are going to role on them versus going to a PvE server just so you can run warzones. You just (usually) won't find the same level of competition on a PvE server.

Then they should roll on a PvP server. The RP designation means that if you enjoy RP and PvP... this server is for you. I see no reason why a PvPer wouldn't just pick a PvP server to begin with.... there are plenty of them out there. /shrug

[*]Cross-server queues would definitely solve the ranked warzone problem, but Bioware has repeatedly stated they are not going to do cross-server warzones or group finder. What does that leave us with? Asking for transfers, a system they already have in place and provided to Ajunta Pall originals.

Perhaps... but many developers have stated they are not interested in introducing many game features, only to relent later to their customers. One can hope. They stated they wouldn't do certain things in the past and relented... (see below).

[*]Sure, RP players who are looking for a free RP fix may come to this server. But over Ebon Hawk? Why would they, it's more populated, which means more RP opportunities. So no help there. Plus, not being paid subscribers means no ranked warzone access so that doesn't help solve that problem. Also, RP people are a minority of an MMO community.

Again... you are looking at a SINGLE element the influences a person's decision. I picked Jung Ma not because it was the most popular server. I chose it because of its designation. I would imagine I'm not the only one in that classification. Server population might be the major influcing factor... but it certainly isn't the only one.

While RPers might be the minority, Ebon Hawk seems pretty populated with RPers... as does Jung Ma. There are 7 total servers with RPers (many of which I can't speak for). I understand not everyone that rolls on those servers RP, but if you bunch the RPers together, I would imagine you would have a population for at least 2.5 - 3 servers. Three FULL servers worth of RPers in a game with only 20 servers is no small number to dismiss. 15% of your clientel is important!

Out of all of those servers, Jung Ma remains the ONLY RP-PvP server in existence. Many of the people posting on this thread want to keep that. We fought hard during release for an RP-PvP server (something Bioware stated they weren't going to do, may I remind you), and we simply wish to express our desire to keep it.