Generally a REBOOT is starting from Scratch , not taking everything previously done and bringing it along for the ride . Granted we will see new stories and changes to the main characters that never happened in the ORIGINAL UNIVERSE ("Most importantly a upgrade in Tech") but it cannot be a real Reboot when the past movies and stories are in the same Canon with the new Movies and Stories . Its not a REAL PARALLEL UNIVERSE when now the other Universe was likely changed with this new one being this was TIME TRAVEL not Portal Hoping.

 

You see Original Spock is still alive and in the NEW Time Line being set , so in fact the it cannot be a real REBOOT .

But it is a Fresh start , so I guess I can see how you would see it as a REBOOT.

It cannot really be a Parallel Universe when the one Original Spoke Came from is no longer existing because of the TIME TRAVEL .

 

Being now Original Spoke is still alive and god knows who lived from Nero's ship or what Tech might have made it , the Previous Time line still holds water .

So you could

(A) Look at it as a Reboot , or

(B) a continuation of the already set series but changing due to timetravel !

 

Either or I thought the movie was good and will allow Kirk to woop more *** and commit go knows how many breaking of Regulation with each lower officer he sleeps with !

 

BY THE WAY , I remember the Next Generation , it also was feared because the older fans did not want to move past Kirk ! William Shatner with all his trying will always be remembered as Kirk , he might not like it but its the way it is and it brought him wealth he probably would not have had otherwise and a fan base that was extremely loyal to him and his castmates .

 

Same will be said of George Lucas , he wants to be known for otherthings besides StarWars , his Filming Directions , his ability to write Stories , and how he forever changed Films as we know it .But he will always be known and remembered for StarWars !

You do know JJ-Trek was labeled as a reboot right?

And the Narada was a mining ship originally as stated in that lens flare flick but the backstory was that it was outfitted with Romulan-Borg technology.

You do know JJ-Trek was labeled as a reboot right?

 

And the Narada was a mining ship originally as stated in that lens flare flick but the backstory was that it was outfitted with Romulan-Borg technology.

1. It can be Labled anything , in the end a true REBOOT would not be a TIME TRAVEL Story .

2. It can seem as a Soft Reboot if you look at the Definition of Soft Reboot .

If the the Original Universe is still living through Spock , its is not a TOTAL REBOOT !

Taken from Wiki

"The alternate timeline was created in an effort to free the film and the franchise from established continuity constraints while simultaneously preserving original story elements."

I am not sure why the White Line was a Reply to me seeing how I did not argue or debat anything to do with the ship other than I said New Tech(Meaning a Upgrade in Ships to keep up with Modern day imagination) .

1. It can be Labled anything , in the end a true REBOOT would not be a TIME TRAVEL Story .

2. It can seem as a Soft Reboot if you look at the Definition of Soft Reboot .

 

If the the Original Universe is still living through Spock , its is not a TOTAL REBOOT !

 

Taken from Wiki

"The alternate timeline was created in an effort to free the film and the franchise from established continuity constraints while simultaneously preserving original story elements."

 

I am not sure why the White Line was a Reply to me seeing how I did not argue or debat anything to do with the ship other than I said New Tech(Meaning a Upgrade in Ships to keep up with Modern day imagination) .

Whether its a reboot or not is irrelevant, lets get back on topic. The new films will not be a 'reboot', Star Wars is in no need of one, it will be a continuation of the story.

First off, the Thrawn Trilogy is one of the best SW EU period. If it wasn't we'd not all be here talking and playing SWTOR. It was the first new SW product siince the droids/Ewok stuff. It might have sold well regardless, but if Heir to the Empire wasn't as good as it was then the other books would not have sold as well. SInce they all did do well it opened the door for new merch and new movies and games.

Also EU books are good because when we read them we hear the characters voices and can picture what they look like in our mind, because the movies showed us. If we did not have that to start from, most of them would prob not be as good as they are to us.

The new movie stuff is exciting...even for me who did see the orginal trilogy in theaters. We have to remember its not just our generation or now even the episode 1-3 generation, but future generations that will get to see and experience all the magic we had when we were young, and for some of us still do today

So when the time comes, just sit back, relax and enjoy the trip to a galaxy far far away.

Hate to break it to ya, but the Star Trek movie WAS a reboot of the FRANCHISE. It wasn't a reboot of the Universe, since it was explained during the movie that they were now in a parallel universe. But as far as rebooting the franchise, it did the job admirably.

hey look at that we agree on something again.

The new movie stuff is exciting...even for me who did see the orginal trilogy in theaters. We have to remember its not just our generation or now even the episode 1-3 generation, but future generations that will get to see and experience all the magic we had when we were young, and for some of us still do today

 

So when the time comes, just sit back, relax and enjoy the trip to a galaxy far far away.

Agreed, I'm sure I'll enjoy whatever they make and finally get a chance to experience Star Wars on the big screen for the first time!

First off, the Thrawn Trilogy is one of the best SW EU period. If it wasn't we'd not all be here talking and playing SWTOR. It was the first new SW product siince the droids/Ewok stuff. It might have sold well regardless, but if Heir to the Empire wasn't as good as it was then the other books would not have sold as well. SInce they all did do well it opened the door for new merch and new movies and games.

 

Also EU books are good because when we read them we hear the characters voices and can picture what they look like in our mind, because the movies showed us. If we did not have that to start from, most of them would prob not be as good as they are to us.

 

The new movie stuff is exciting...even for me who did see the orginal trilogy in theaters. We have to remember its not just our generation or now even the episode 1-3 generation, but future generations that will get to see and experience all the magic we had when we were young, and for some of us still do today

 

So when the time comes, just sit back, relax and enjoy the trip to a galaxy far far away.

Agreed. The Thrawn Trilogy was the first full series of non-movie based novels I read for Star Wars. I can only hope that the new Episode VII doesn't make that whole trilogy pointless. And if it does, it better do so in a way that makes us forget that The Thrawn Trilogy would have made a helluva movie series.

Agreed. The Thrawn Trilogy was the first full series of non-movie based novels I read for Star Wars. I can only hope that the new Episode VII doesn't make that whole trilogy pointless. And if it does, it better do so in a way that makes us forget that The Thrawn Trilogy would have made a helluva movie series.

the clone wars and the prequels have already invalidated the Thrawn Trilogy. Look at all the contradictions in it now.

the clone wars and the prequels have already invalidated the Thrawn Trilogy. Look at all the contradictions in it now.

You mean besides the account of the Clone Wars that was kept as an S-Canon rumor due to the fact that anyone witnessing the actual attack by clone troopers on the Jedi, without knowing of Order 66 would see them as insane? That was pretty much it. The actual storyline in The Thrawn Trilogy is still considered C-Canon.

the clone wars and the prequels have already invalidated the Thrawn Trilogy. Look at all the contradictions in it now.

Again, the only reason why the Thrawn trilogy has all the contradictions it does is because it was written before any of the events of the Clone Wars were made canon. At that point, Zahn was guessing what was happening, and even in the 10th anniversary of Heir to the Empire, Zahn says that Lucas made him change a lot in that book, and in the trilogy, to better fit the movies. And it's still a contradiction, because Lucas changed his mind on a couple of points (Or didn't tell the author what was really going to happen).

So really, it's still Canon, it just got some facts wrong.

The New StarTrek Movie was not a REBOOT , I think someone already stated this .........................

Do not blame the Movie for your weaknesses , It was stated from start of the Movie to the end . At the begining of the movie it showed Time being changed by Nero who was seeking Revenge for his Planet being Destroyed . It also featured Original Spock and his Younger self .

If altering timestream and coming up with a future where the original trek things never happened is not a reboot, then what is? Unless you are saying they don't intend to continue on that.. Which would be great btw.

You mean besides the account of the Clone Wars that was kept as an S-Canon rumor due to the fact that anyone witnessing the actual attack by clone troopers on the Jedi, without knowing of Order 66 would see them as insane? That was pretty much it. The actual storyline in The Thrawn Trilogy is still considered C-Canon.

1. The entire cloning technique. ie the force affects clones and so fourth

2. cloning jedi -not cannon does not happen

3. Luuke skywalker

4. no sith after vader and the emperor are killed (so no master C'boath )

5. The entire Nogrhi story doesn't happen. (we know where Anakin is during the clone wars)

6. The Katana fleet doesn't exist.

7. The idea that there was a Sith lord guarding the Mountain on Wayland.

and those are just off the top of my head. If I actually sat down and thought about I could find many more.

Again, the only reason why the Thrawn trilogy has all the contradictions it does is because it was written before any of the events of the Clone Wars were made canon. At that point, Zahn was guessing what was happening, and even in the 10th anniversary of Heir to the Empire, Zahn says that Lucas made him change a lot in that book, and in the trilogy, to better fit the movies. And it's still a contradiction, because Lucas changed his mind on a couple of points (Or didn't tell the author what was really going to happen).

 

So really, it's still Canon, it just got some facts wrong.

oh I know it's because it was written before. But that's part of the point. When Lucas made the Prequels and the Clone Wars he doesn't care about the Post ROTJ EU and because of that a lot of stuff that was considered canon became non canon.

People like to think the Thrawn Trilogy is still canon because it is the best EU book out there, but if you really take a look at what has changed then there is no way it could be considered canon.

Now given that they say that Episode 7 will be a new story not based on anything in the EU and given Lucas didn't care about the EU when he made the Prequels and the Clone Wars what makes you think Disney is going to care about it?

Now I could see them taking some characters from the Eu and adding them in new stories ie make Thrawn a major vilian in the new series but they won't make the Thrawn Trilogy they will give him a new story. Just like they did with the Marvel movies.

Now I could see them taking some characters from the Eu and adding them in new stories ie make Thrawn a major vilian in the new series but they won't make the Thrawn Trilogy they will give him a new story. Just like they did with the Marvel movies.

TBH, I think this is a good idea. Tons of people want the Thrawn trilogy to be adapted into film, but that isn't going to happen. But Thrawn (I know next to nothing about him) seems like a cool character, and a supervillain with a bit of background to him which will make it more appealing to fans. And seeing as the trilogy has already been dislodged by the prequels, why not push it the whole way give him a new story. Lots of people won't like that, but if its done well Thrawn will be given a proper, top-canon place in the universe and his own cinematic, can't really complain about that. They can also introduce characters like Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn, which seem like great characters. Lucas has already drawn from the EU to make his films, don't see why it can't be done again.

1. The entire cloning technique. ie the force affects clones and so fourth

2. cloning jedi -not cannon does not happen

3. Luuke skywalker

4. no sith after vader and the emperor are killed (so no master C'boath )

5. The entire Nogrhi story doesn't happen. (we know where Anakin is during the clone wars)

6. The Katana fleet doesn't exist.

7. The idea that there was a Sith lord guarding the Mountain on Wayland.

and those are just off the top of my head. If I actually sat down and thought about I could find many more.

1, 2, and 3. So TFU is N-Canon, then? No Cloned Jedi, and The Force doesn't affect Clones. Right? You just said the TFU storyline was G-Canon. Oops. Have a nice trip?

4. Joruus C'Baoth was an insane Jedi Clone, NOT a Sith. refer to the above.

5. Takes place after TCW, and you know it. He was DARTH VADER when he made the pact with the Noghri. Now you're just lying.

6. "Not mentioned" doesn't mean "didn't happen". You know that as well.

7. No proof that it was a "Sith Lord". It could have been another insane Jedi Clone. Joruus C'Baoth was insane. Take a step back and look at it objectively instead of seeing what you want to see.

You really forgot the words of wisdom that Obi-Wan gave Luke Skywalker on Dagobah in Return of the Jedi: "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view." However, you just got caught in two outright lies. Do everyone a favor and stop, already.

1, 2, and 3. So TFU is N-Canon, then? No Cloned Jedi, and The Force doesn't affect Clones. Right? You just said the TFU storyline was G-Canon. Oops. Have a nice trip?

4. Joruus C'Baoth was an insane Jedi Clone, NOT a Sith. refer to the above.

5. Takes place after TCW, and you know it. He was DARTH VADER when he made the pact with the Noghri. Now you're just lying.

6. "Not mentioned" doesn't mean "didn't happen". You know that as well.

7. No proof that it was a "Sith Lord". It could have been another insane Jedi Clone. Joruus C'Baoth was insane. Take a step back and look at it objectively instead of seeing what you want to see.

 

You really forgot the words of wisdom that Obi-Wan gave Luke Skywalker on Dagobah in Return of the Jedi: "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view." However, you just got caught in two outright lies. Do everyone a favor and stop, already.

1,2,3 Yes it is that's what I ahve been saying. Allthough they promoted it as being G-canon it isn't because it doesn't fit in anywhere.

4. as for the Jedi clones. I'm really refering to that there were no jedi clones during the clone wars which is when C'baoth would have been created.

5. No it doesn't. Leia even figures out it happens DURING the clone wars. It takes place 40 years before the events. Vader is fighting during the clone wars and comes down to the planet. You need to reread Dark Force Rising. They say after the battle Darth Vader came down to survey the Damage and thats when he decided to help them. It also indicates that Palapentine was Emperor Palpentine during the clone wars.

6. It doesn't exist because according to the Thrawn Trilogy it was created to rebuild the Republics military strength. Which is impossible since they couldn't even vote on creating an army. We know all the events between The Phanotom Meance and Revenge of the Sith. The fleet is supposed to be made before the Clone Wars. We know this doesn't happen.

7. ummm yeah it was described by several people that it was a Sith Lord. Even Mara Jade says during The Last Command that the Emperor had sent a sith lord to guard his greatest treasures.

1,2,3 Yes it is that's what I ahve been saying. Allthough they promoted it as being G-canon it isn't because it doesn't fit in anywhere.

4. as for the Jedi clones. I'm really refering to that there were no jedi clones during the clone wars which is when C'baoth would have been created.

5. No it doesn't. Leia even figures out it happens DURING the clone wars. It takes place 40 years before the events. Vader is fighting during the clone wars and comes down to the planet. You need to reread Dark Force Rising. They say after the battle Darth Vader came down to survey the Damage and thats when he decided to help them. It also indicates that Palapentine was Emperor Palpentine during the clone wars.

6. It doesn't exist because according to the Thrawn Trilogy it was created to rebuild the Republics military strength. Which is impossible since they couldn't even vote on creating an army. We know all the events between The Phanotom Meance and Revenge of the Sith. The fleet is supposed to be made before the Clone Wars. We know this doesn't happen.

7. ummm yeah it was described by several people that it was a Sith Lord. Even Mara Jade says during The Last Command that the Emperor had sent a sith lord to guard his greatest treasures.

But George said it was! You said so yourself! So George has created a G-Canon conundrum!!! Congratulations on your blind faith in George's Word Is Law.

*gets a vision of JarJar twitching like Sheldon Cooper*

But George said it was! You said so yourself! So George has created a G-Canon conundrum!!! Congratulations on your blind faith in George's Word Is Law.

 

*gets a vision of JarJar twitching like Sheldon Cooper*

 

rofl oh god this is funny. You have never listened to a word i have said have you? I have always stated that the EU was a jumbled mess full of contradictions. I have said the EU desperetly needs to be relaunched. Why do you think I'm so happy. We are finnally getting a relaunch of the EU. and some actual order.

Of course the Old Republic is fine for the most part it's far enough away that it isn't affected by the Civil War. That's one of the reasons I love this game so much.

Even the movies contradict them selves. Hell even Empire Strikes back Contradicts Return of the Jedi.

I love how you can't aruge about any of the points that I proved there.

I forget how bad you are at this.

Why all the hate for the EU?

Seeing that i have a forum to voice my opinion let me say this.

WHY DO SO MANY FANS HATE THE PREQUELS. WHY ARE SO MANY PREQUEL FANS VEHEMENT IN THEIR DEFENSE OF THEM?

One word: Disappointment. OT fans LIVED the star wars movies. What that means is that people wore buttons that said "May the force be with you","Vader was Framed" and put top 50 Star wars spin off songs on the top ten lists of the day.

We know what it is like to see a movie that actually had a HUGE impact on society. Not just on say, the tech-savvy, geeks or comic book fans. It introduced the love of Fantasy and Science fiction such a broad cross section of society that people were absolutely enamored and amazed by it.

It made hairs stand up on end, gave goosebumps and excited imaginations with a wildfire that spread thorough-out the globe in a matter of weeks.

After this triumph of a trilogy we were given Jar jar binks, midi-chlorians and sub standard celluloid deliverance.

For OT fans it was a huge let-down never measuring up to what we had when we were younger.

To new fans it helped define them. Who has never seen generational gaps where parents love one thing so their children automatically veer toward the opposite? It's a natural occurrence, typical for the human species. Humans define themselves by what is different between them, not through commonalities or shared attractions. It's what makes each of us diverse and, dare I say it, unique and special in our own perspectives.

Still I'm rambling now. The fact of the matter is that we all fall under the sci-fi genre and category that defines us all as STAR WARS FANS.

Let's just hope that Disney respects this and doesn't plan to disappoint us all even further.

rofl oh god this is funny. You have never listened to a word i have said have you? I have always stated that the EU was a jumbled mess full of contradictions. I have said the EU desperetly needs to be relaunched. Why do you think I'm so happy. We are finnally getting a relaunch of the EU. and some actual order.

 

Of course the Old Republic is fine for the most part it's far enough away that it isn't affected by the Civil War. That's one of the reasons I love this game so much.

 

Even the movies contradict them selves. Hell even Empire Strikes back Contradicts Return of the Jedi.

 

I love how you can't aruge about any of the points that I proved there.

 

I forget how bad you are at this.

Ok, you want a serious debate, stop acting like everything George says, even in passing, is Law, then contradicting yourself when it suits your purposes. His remark about post-RotJ ExU "not what I would have done" doesn't make it N-Canon. It was a point of view that he made during an interview. That same statement said "my story was Episodes I - VI." THAT is G-Canon. Episodes I - VI. No more, no less.

That said, the Noghri visit by Darth Vader was after the Clone Wars. Leia was wrong. Her information was given to her by a Noghri, who didn't know the difference between Noghri planetary years as opposed to Galactic Standard years. Remember, "certain point of view". There is a LOT that is dictated by "certain point of view" logic in Star Wars.

The Cloning process and making clones out of Jedi... Covered in TFU, and is exactly the same as the process used in The Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire. In fact, it's the same process used in Episode II. Also, just because a character says something, doesn't make it true. You of all people should know that.

The Sith Lord on Wayland... Point of view, yet again. Palpatine had a lot of "Sith" working for him, if that's what you want to call them. "Dark Jedi" is more likely.

Honestly, from what I've seen of your arguments, you're more intent on proving everyone else wrong than proving your point. Whenever I "agree" with you to show you how stupid your argument might be, you contradict yourself. Is it because you realize how stupid your argument sounds when it's thrown back in your face?

Doesn't matter. I'm throwing you on my permanent Ignore List. You do it to quite a few other people on here, I noticed. You were completely unwilling to show "incontravertable proof" in the whole Boba Fett debate back in the day, because you "couldn't be bothered" when you couldn't find anything to prove anyone else wrong. You simply said "Go to this page and look it up yourselves". That right there is a loss, and you have lost. Either that, or you don't know how to copy/paste. Like I said, though. It doesn't matter. I have better things to do than argue with a delusional dilletante like you. You have no clue how the Star Wars Canon system even works to this day. You claim EVERYTHING is N-Canon when contradicted by something George says, when you don't even consider S-Canon. That is the mark of an amateur. So as I said before, do everyone a favor and stop trying to pass yourself off as an "expert".

Ok, you want a serious debate, stop acting like everything George says, even in passing, is Law, then contradicting yourself when it suits your purposes. His remark about post-RotJ ExU "not what I would have done" doesn't make it N-Canon. It was a point of view that he made during an interview. That same statement said "my story was Episodes I - VI." THAT is G-Canon. Episodes I - VI. No more, no less.

 

That said, the Noghri visit by Darth Vader was after the Clone Wars. Leia was wrong. Her information was given to her by a Noghri, who didn't know the difference between Noghri planetary years as opposed to Galactic Standard years. Remember, "certain point of view". There is a LOT that is dictated by "certain point of view" logic in Star Wars.

 

The Cloning process and making clones out of Jedi... Covered in TFU, and is exactly the same as the process used in The Thrawn Trilogy and Dark Empire. In fact, it's the same process used in Episode II. Also, just because a character says something, doesn't make it true. You of all people should know that.

 

The Sith Lord on Wayland... Point of view, yet again. Palpatine had a lot of "Sith" working for him, if that's what you want to call them. "Dark Jedi" is more likely.

 

Honestly, from what I've seen of your arguments, you're more intent on proving everyone else wrong than proving your point. Whenever I "agree" with you to show you how stupid your argument might be, you contradict yourself. Is it because you realize how stupid your argument sounds when it's thrown back in your face?

 

Doesn't matter. I'm throwing you on my permanent Ignore List. You do it to quite a few other people on here, I noticed. You were completely unwilling to show "incontravertable proof" in the whole Boba Fett debate back in the day, because you "couldn't be bothered" when you couldn't find anything to prove anyone else wrong. You simply said "Go to this page and look it up yourselves". That right there is a loss, and you have lost. Either that, or you don't know how to copy/paste. Like I said, though. It doesn't matter. I have better things to do than argue with a delusional dilletante like you. You have no clue how the Star Wars Canon system even works to this day. You claim EVERYTHING is N-Canon when contradicted by something George says, when you don't even consider S-Canon. That is the mark of an amateur. So as I said before, do everyone a favor and stop trying to pass yourself off as an "expert".

well if you are putting me on permanent ignore I will just say this

Everything you said there is taking things clearly out of context. Everything is spelled out for you but you decide to change it to try and make it fit in to what you think the lore is.

The Nohgri aren't wrong they specifically say after the battle Vader came down. Not years later Vader visited.

Even if you wanted to say he was just a sith on Wayland that would also be wrong. The only sith we have are the Emperor and Vader. No one else this is confirmed by multiple sources in the movies.

I addressed the clone process in the other thread. But you won't read it since i'm on ignore right?

don't be hating because I know more about the lore and canon then you.

don't be hating because I know more about the lore and canon then you.

I HAD to go and click on the Show Post button... *bangs head against wall*

Ok, now that THAT's out of the way...

If by "hating" you mean pointing out the flaws in your arguments, then I DO have to point them out. The fact that you THINK you know more about the Canon system than I do is belied by your inability to accept S-Canon elements in retconned N-Canon works, or retcons of C-Canon elements TO S-Canon. S-Canon retcons STILL contain elements of truth, usually in a story that has been retconned to N-Canon, or as retcons in a story that is otherwise C-Canon. You quote George Lucas when it suits your purposes, and take his statements completely out of context. Then you turn around and say that "Just because George says it, doesn't make it true" in the case of TFU. You can't have it both ways. I've used that argument against you as well, and you failed to prove your point.

I can justify my arguments because of a couple truths in Star Wars that are absolute. "Point of view" and "Just because a character says something, doesn't make it true." IF the battle never happend in TCW, how do you KNOW it never happened? Because it wasn't covered on the show? Because he was supposedly going by "Darth Vader" at the time? Did it ever occur to you that the Noghri thought the battle might have taken place during the Clone Wars, but was in actuallity fought AFTERWARDS? Or do you think that when he landed he didn't identify himself to the Noghri until AFTER the Clone Wars were over and he really WAS Darth Vader. There are too many unanswered questions and too many plausible explanations for that to be written off as N-Canon on a knee-jerk response.

/ignored

oh I know it's because it was written before. But that's part of the point. When Lucas made the Prequels and the Clone Wars he doesn't care about the Post ROTJ EU and because of that a lot of stuff that was considered canon became non canon.

 

People like to think the Thrawn Trilogy is still canon because it is the best EU book out there, but if you really take a look at what has changed then there is no way it could be considered canon.

 

Now given that they say that Episode 7 will be a new story not based on anything in the EU and given Lucas didn't care about the EU when he made the Prequels and the Clone Wars what makes you think Disney is going to care about it?

 

Now I could see them taking some characters from the Eu and adding them in new stories ie make Thrawn a major vilian in the new series but they won't make the Thrawn Trilogy they will give him a new story. Just like they did with the Marvel movies.

I'm still not seeing how it's Non-Canon, given that the entire story can still be considered canon and something that happens after ROTJ finishes. Sure some plot points would be considered non-canon at the worst and misinformed at best (The cloning process, the Sith Lord in Mount Tantiss, The Noghri's story about Vader), but it doesn't change the fact that the story as a whole is still considered canon.

Let's look at some of the statements provided in Heir to the Empire. For one, Thrawn's certainty that there was a Sith protecting Mount Tantiss. Thrawn could have been wrong ("What's this? Thrawn wrong?! Blasphemy!" Here me out) about his classification of Sith. Palpatine at the time had a multitude of Dark Jedi serving under him, or are we forgetting about Quinlan Vos serving Palpie when he fell to the Dark Side? Mara Jade as Hand of the Emperor was also a glorified Dark Jedi. It isn't a stretch to say that Palpatine put one of his own Force using servants inside Mount Tantiss to guard it.

Jedi Clones. Outbound Flight actually covers how Joruus C'baoth was made. When Outbound Flight was launched, the Republic had to give all the passengers an immunity shot, during which some DNA was taken, including C'baoth's. Now if you read read Outbound Flight you'll see that the real C'baoth wasn't very far from going insane like his clone, so it begs the question of "Was the clone really insane, or just a perfect replica?" But I digress. It is later stated that the reason the Jedi clones were made was Palpatine's attempt to create his own Force using servants and loyal Dark Jedi. Much in the same way the Reborn were made in the Jedi Knight games, these Clones were made so that the Emperor could have his own army of Dark Jedi to serve him. This was kept secret from the people when Palpatine failed, and yes he did fail, they say it in the books, and the project was scrapped.

As for the actual cloning process itself, again covered in another set of books but this time by Karen Traviss. In the 501st Imperial Commando book, a batch of new clones arrive, only they aren't privy to the original clones training habits from the Kaminoans. Turns out Palpatine didn't want to pay his bill to Kamino and ended up hiring the second-best cloners in the galaxy: Arkanians. Now, unlike the Kaminoans cloning methods, we don't know how the Arkanians did it, we just know that they did, so is it possible that the cloning method used by Thrawn was correct? Yes. But again, Zahn (The author) was working under the assumption that Lucas had previously worked into the series, that the Force is "An energy field created by all living things", so when Zahn was writing his books the Force really DID effect everything. So the Ysalmir are justified in their use.

Now, onto the Noghri. Leia does come to the conclusion that their planet was devastated during the Clone Wars, and that Vader did in fact come down to "help" the people. But we also know that by this time, Vader was in the suit, and we also know that Palpatine was Emperor. This leads us to a number of conclusions, all of which keep in mind that Zahn wrote this series BEFORE any of the movie canon was actually established. Now, keep in mind that in G-Canon, the clone wars happened over a period of three years, which brings up a whole set of new continuity issues for that time period which I won't dive into. So, with this three year time frame in mind, and that we know when Vader gets put in the suit, lets look at things that this could possibly be justified as.

1) Vader is cleaning up some of the Separatists during the Purge. See, according to G-Canon, the Empire dies with Palpatine being thrown down the reactor shaft, and the Clone Wars ends with the murder of the Separatist leaders on Mustafar. This is unrealistic, just because you kill the head doesn't mean that the body immediately dies afterwards. A group of new leaders would have taken over the CIS and tried to continue the fight, or would have pulled back into their own systems to hide from Palpatine's "New Order" and would have been on the defense. Perhaps the fight over Honoghr was a skirmish between the CIS and the Empire while Vader was crushing what was left of the CIS.

2) Time frame was wrong. Given the fact that the Clone Wars happens in a span of only three years, Zahn could have thought that, with it being such a big and important war in Star Wars continuity, that it could have actually been a lot longer than what was later established. So, when Leia says that it happened during the Clone War, it could have been Zahn not being told the real time frame or it could have just been a miscalculation of Galatic Standard years compared to Noghri years. Keep in mind that the years change as the story progresses, we don't know how the Empire judged the years before the BBY/ABY system was set up. So it could have just simply been Leia taking an educated guess, and getting it wrong. Or more likely, it could have been the author not being told everything, and making an assumption that would later be proved wrong.

These are just a few things that I thought would be pertinent to point out, and hopefully help explain some of the inconsitencies. Maybe they do, but I KNOW that some people here are going to pick apart every single argument I made here and deny, deny, deny. But hey, that's their right, just as it is my right to post this and then say "That's all I'm putting down, because I really don't feel like getting into an argument over something that we all love that will only end up making us angry and pissy at each other. As George Takei said 'We're all Star Fans.'"

I'm still not seeing how it's Non-Canon, given that the entire story can still be considered canon and something that happens after ROTJ finishes. Sure some plot points would be considered non-canon at the worst and misinformed at best (The cloning process, the Sith Lord in Mount Tantiss, The Noghri's story about Vader), but it doesn't change the fact that the story as a whole is still considered canon.

 

Let's look at some of the statements provided in Heir to the Empire. For one, Thrawn's certainty that there was a Sith protecting Mount Tantiss. Thrawn could have been wrong ("What's this? Thrawn wrong?! Blasphemy!" Here me out) about his classification of Sith. Palpatine at the time had a multitude of Dark Jedi serving under him, or are we forgetting about Quinlan Vos serving Palpie when he fell to the Dark Side? Mara Jade as Hand of the Emperor was also a glorified Dark Jedi. It isn't a stretch to say that Palpatine put one of his own Force using servants inside Mount Tantiss to guard it.

 

Jedi Clones. Outbound Flight actually covers how Joruus C'baoth was made. When Outbound Flight was launched, the Republic had to give all the passengers an immunity shot, during which some DNA was taken, including C'baoth's. Now if you read read Outbound Flight you'll see that the real C'baoth wasn't very far from going insane like his clone, so it begs the question of "Was the clone really insane, or just a perfect replica?" But I digress. It is later stated that the reason the Jedi clones were made was Palpatine's attempt to create his own Force using servants and loyal Dark Jedi. Much in the same way the Reborn were made in the Jedi Knight games, these Clones were made so that the Emperor could have his own army of Dark Jedi to serve him. This was kept secret from the people when Palpatine failed, and yes he did fail, they say it in the books, and the project was scrapped.

 

As for the actual cloning process itself, again covered in another set of books but this time by Karen Traviss. In the 501st Imperial Commando book, a batch of new clones arrive, only they aren't privy to the original clones training habits from the Kaminoans. Turns out Palpatine didn't want to pay his bill to Kamino and ended up hiring the second-best cloners in the galaxy: Arkanians. Now, unlike the Kaminoans cloning methods, we don't know how the Arkanians did it, we just know that they did, so is it possible that the cloning method used by Thrawn was correct? Yes. But again, Zahn (The author) was working under the assumption that Lucas had previously worked into the series, that the Force is "An energy field created by all living things", so when Zahn was writing his books the Force really DID effect everything. So the Ysalmir are justified in their use.

 

Now, onto the Noghri. Leia does come to the conclusion that their planet was devastated during the Clone Wars, and that Vader did in fact come down to "help" the people. But we also know that by this time, Vader was in the suit, and we also know that Palpatine was Emperor. This leads us to a number of conclusions, all of which keep in mind that Zahn wrote this series BEFORE any of the movie canon was actually established. Now, keep in mind that in G-Canon, the clone wars happened over a period of three years, which brings up a whole set of new continuity issues for that time period which I won't dive into. So, with this three year time frame in mind, and that we know when Vader gets put in the suit, lets look at things that this could possibly be justified as.

 

1) Vader is cleaning up some of the Separatists during the Purge. See, according to G-Canon, the Empire dies with Palpatine being thrown down the reactor shaft, and the Clone Wars ends with the murder of the Separatist leaders on Mustafar. This is unrealistic, just because you kill the head doesn't mean that the body immediately dies afterwards. A group of new leaders would have taken over the CIS and tried to continue the fight, or would have pulled back into their own systems to hide from Palpatine's "New Order" and would have been on the defense. Perhaps the fight over Honoghr was a skirmish between the CIS and the Empire while Vader was crushing what was left of the CIS.

 

2) Time frame was wrong. Given the fact that the Clone Wars happens in a span of only three years, Zahn could have thought that, with it being such a big and important war in Star Wars continuity, that it could have actually been a lot longer than what was later established. So, when Leia says that it happened during the Clone War, it could have been Zahn not being told the real time frame or it could have just been a miscalculation of Galatic Standard years compared to Noghri years. Keep in mind that the years change as the story progresses, we don't know how the Empire judged the years before the BBY/ABY system was set up. So it could have just simply been Leia taking an educated guess, and getting it wrong. Or more likely, it could have been the author not being told everything, and making an assumption that would later be proved wrong.

 

These are just a few things that I thought would be pertinent to point out, and hopefully help explain some of the inconsitencies. Maybe they do, but I KNOW that some people here are going to pick apart every single argument I made here and deny, deny, deny. But hey, that's their right, just as it is my right to post this and then say "That's all I'm putting down, because I really don't feel like getting into an argument over something that we all love that will only end up making us angry and pissy at each other. As George Takei said 'We're all Star Fans.'"

Well said, sir. Thank you. My own arguments with him are far worse, and when I get angry, I forget the finer points of debating. He refuses to acknowledge anything post-RotJ as Canon at all, thanks to a quote by George Lucas that says "it's not how I would have done it", then goes on to suppose his own vision of what would happen if he had written it. I'm sure if you see his replies in other threads, he has an extremely narrow view of what Canon should be. Unfortunately, Canon is far more maleable than he would like to admit. He refuses to even admit in some cases that S-Canon is a possibility, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Oh, and he also likes to contradict himself about what George says. Sometimes he'll say "George's word is Law", then turn around and say "Well, George was wrong about that". Depends on what suits the purposes of his argument at any given time.

Anyhow, thank you again. I Appreciate it.

Why all the hate for the EU?

I doubt I'd be such a fan of Star Wars if not for the EU. The films were alright, but nothing to rave about. I just hope Disney's Episode 7 fits into the established events rather than ******** all over them. I've seen people going on about "alternate timelines" but I can't see why anyone would want that. Why bother following a franchise that has a continuing story if it's just going to be re-written over and over until nobody knows what really happened from an in-universe point of view? I can't imagine many of the fans want this to happen, unless it's just there as a "what if?" but is declared as such. A bit like the DLC Dark Side endings for TFU- fun to play and see, but if both light and dark endings happened? That kind of crap might be fine in one of those weird, unheard of anime shows, but in Star Wars? Bad idea.

Fingers crossed anyways.