You can also get the 20 hilt from pvp weapons vendor

Updated OP.

Found them they are called barrage enhancements but have the Same stats as quick savant.

Updated OP.

With your spec do you get flagged as a dps or healer in ranked wz?

Healer.

Hello Orderken,

I have a few questions concerning both PvP and PvE:

As for PvP I just got myself a Lightsaber of Eldritch Force

It has a +41 power cristal

Its mods are 46/46/46 Resolve Hilt 20, Aptitude Mod 20A, Barrage Enhancement 20. No augment.

My old Lightsaber was a Conqueror Force-Master's Lightsaber. Classic Tier 1 piece, unchanged with no augment either.

When I get into a Warzone, the 46/46/46 gives these stats:

http://imgur.com/jUQLeHr,avqfct3,ycYuaUq#1

Whereas pvp Lightsaber gives me these:

http://imgur.com/jUQLeHr,avqfct3,ycYuaUq#2

I think we can all agree that the pve 46/46/46 is better, yet here is what happens when I toy a bit with my focus / lightsaber.

When I swap my Tier 1 focus for my 46/46/46 Focus or my Tier 1 lightsaber for my 46/46/46 one multiple times here is what happens: (46/46/46 lightsaber and focus, just like in the first screenshot)

http://imgur.com/jUQLeHr,avqfct3,ycYuaUq#0

I just lost over a 100 Bonus Healing.

So here is my question:

Can we really trust what's written on the character sheet?? Is it just me, or is this a known bug that I was unaware of ? Does this change anything about the fact that 46/46/46 MH/OH is better than tier 1 conq?

I have no idea what I could do to test it out, if you have ideas I'll be glad to try them

Now on a PvE unrelated note.

I often find myself having trouble with healing multiple targets when in ops (mostly 8-man). Should I be more focused on tanks (since I have Force Shelter) or is it better to have another class heal the tank specifically? I'm now using Parsec to track stuff I do and to try and improve myself but I have some trouble interpreting the data.

I don't mean to cast stones at you (there's a very subtle joke here...) but do you plan on improving the Parsing part of your guide? Maybe throwing in some of your own parses on various bosses (both SM and HM would be appreciated) and commenting them, if that's not too much of a secret?

I'm currently raiding 8-man ops, we just cleaned everything in 8 man and we'd like to start going Hard Mode, what do you think would be a good point to start? Scum and Villainy or Terror From Beyond? Or should we go Hard Mode Fortress right away?

I know I'm asking a lot of annoying questions so feel free to ignore some of them, I won't get offended or anything

Thanks a lot for your help in advance

When I swap my Tier 1 focus for my 46/46/46 Focus or my Tier 1 lightsaber for my 46/46/46 one multiple times here is what happens: (46/46/46 lightsaber and focus, just like in the first screenshot)

http://imgur.com/jUQLeHr,avqfct3,ycYuaUq#0

 

I just lost over a 100 Bonus Healing.

So here is my question:

 

Can we really trust what's written on the character sheet?? Is it just me, or is this a known bug that I was unaware of ? Does this change anything about the fact that 46/46/46 MH/OH is better than tier 1 conq?

The same had occurred for me during my testing. I stumbled upon a solution to this puzzling phenomenon. If you equip an OH inside a Warzone, Bolster won't affect it until a MH has been equipped inside the Warzone. That is, you must unequip and reequip your MH, or swap MHs, after equipping an OH inside a Warzone.

I have no idea what I could do to test it out, if you have ideas I'll be glad to try them

I recommend testing while your in a Warzone that hasn't begun. Before the Warzone begins, you have consistent conditions:

1. You have full buffs.
   
2. Force Shelter or Inspiration shouldn't increase your heals.
   
3. Combat or single-target healing debuffs from an enemy shouldn't decrease your heals.
   

Use Force Mend. Assuming that your Healing Received bonus from Companion Tharan Cedrax or skill Pain Bearer is constant for each of your tests, the amount that this ability heals is constant for any particular amount of Bonus Healing. If Force Mend procs a relic, this proc won't have affected Force Mend, and the proc will expire before your next Force Mend.

I tested Force Mend with a few combinations, including MH and OH that were Obroan and that were Blue 46s. The Blue 46s maximized the healing of Force Mend.

Now on a PvE unrelated note.

[...] Should I be more focused on tanks (since I have Force Shelter) or is it better to have another class heal the tank specifically?

The primary purpose of healing assignments is simplifying triage. When one tank and one non-tank are each a few seconds from death, a successful healing assignment ensures that both healers don't heal one player and neglect the other. A secondary purpose is streamlining, including, for example, not both cleansing the same player or not both using an ability with a long cooldown (e.g., Force Potency) to respond to the same single-target emergency.

I suggest that you and your co-healer agree upon healing assignments for each boss. All else equal, a Commando or Scoundrel is a better tank healer than a Sage. A reasonable default assignment is: non-Sage healer focuses on tanks, and Sage healer focuses on non-tanks. If your co-healer isn't comfortable tank healing, or if tanks will be far apart or both will take substantial damage for any period, I suggest that you each choose one tank on whom to focus.

Refine an assignment as needed after a wipe. No healer should neglect tanks, of course. Even if your focus is non-tanks, Force Armor and Rejuvenate are crucial for tanks.

I don't consider Force Shelter a factor for healing assignments, because it increases your healing done (but not Force Armor, which is an absorb rather than a heal) regardless of whom you're healing.

I often find myself having trouble with healing multiple targets when in ops (mostly 8-man).

The positioning of your raid members is crucial. Your raid members should stack to receive healing from Force Wave and Salvation whenever a mechanic doesn't prevent it. If a ranged DPS stands alone for no reason, I let him die alone, and I inform him (over voice chat, so everyone hears) that his failure to be in range of ample AOE healing led to his death.

I'm now using Parsec to track stuff I do and to try and improve myself but I have some trouble interpreting the data.

I don't mean to cast stones at you (there's a very subtle joke here...) but do you plan on improving the Parsing part of your guide? Maybe throwing in some of your own parses on various bosses (both SM and HM would be appreciated) and commenting them, if that's not too much of a secret?

Parses vary a greater deal based on boss, healing assignment, co-healer, and the extent of the raid's derping or intoxication. That said, I have a ridiculous number of raid parses on TORParse.com. If you search for "orderken", you'll find my Sorcerer healer (Orderken) and my Mercenary healer (Koltorderken). You'll also find my Operative healer (Yolorderken), but I'd ignore these parses, because I'm a lazy and bad Operative healer.

Using very broad strokes, your HPS should come from Salvation > Healing Trance > Resurgence > Deliverance > Force Wave. If you search the page "Log" on TORParse.com for "activates Force Armor", or use Parsec, the count for Force Armor should be 5 or more per minute.

You may PM me a link to a parse of yours. I'll review it, but I doubt that, based solely on a parse, I'll be able to provide you with valuable feedback unless you're doing something outlandish.

I'm currently raiding 8-man ops, we just cleaned everything in 8 man and we'd like to start going Hard Mode, what do you think would be a good point to start? Scum and Villainy or Terror From Beyond? Or should we go Hard Mode Fortress right away?

HM TFB or S&V is substantially easier than HM DF or DP. Players who haven't cleared HM DF on any toons will struggle with it, I believe, until their toons have at least 72 gear.

Would you still say it's useful to play with the 2pc PvE set in PvP ?

(I currently am using gloves and legs)

I'm currently playing with full Obroan gear, full Overkill augments, Brutal Relic x2 and Brutal Saber.

With bolster I'm at 2018 Expertise since I'm using the "old" 69/63/61 mods on my pve pieces.

With the new item rating system my pve pieces are 162/150/146. Do you think it'd be a good idea to go for 162/162/162 or stick with what I have? Maybe should I pick only pvp gear, I don't know, but since I'm new to the game and didn't know about the 1500 RWZC crystal abuse I think I'm undergeared compared to most, so I'm trying to get back on par by some optimizations.

Thanks for your answers from last time. I didn't send you any parse because currently it looks like our raid is just missing some DPS (like 2 or 3k of them...).

We've been trying Toborro HM and as we saw we have no problem healing and tanking the stuff but we are just so low on DPS bosses just keep enraging and it's very frustrating.

We are currently trying to address this problem (dummy fight night yay \o/) so that we can move forward in the content. I'll come back at you when I have some interesting parses of progress content that is challenging to heal

Another question here

In PvE I'm currently using 4pc for the set bonus. They are composed of 162 Armoring with a mix of 168/180 mods/enhancements. Would you say it's better to use 2 set pc 162/168/168 and 3 non set 168/168/168 or 4pc 162/168/168 with one non set 168/168/168 ?

I've seen in a recent argument you had with someone on the Sorc healing guide that even though the +50 force isn't awesome it has its use, what would you say is the threshold to use it or not ?

Thanks in advance

This guide is not current, the skill allocations are not correct as the tree was changed.

Unfortunately Swtorspy and AMR are not yet updated and Torhead is broken for Sage/Sorcs. Fortunately though, while the position of talents in the Seer tree has been changed, their effect has not so you basically still want the same skills as those in the OP.

Today I updated the OP.

1. The links to external sites for skill trees and PVP gear are up-to-date.
   
2. I described the fact that Warzone Bolster continues to grant full or nearly full Expertise to certain PVE gear.
   

Would you still say it's useful to play with the 2pc PvE set in PvP ?

(I currently am using gloves and legs)

 

With bolster I'm at 2018 Expertise since ... my pve pieces are 162/150/146. Do you think it'd be a good idea to go for 162/162/162 or stick with what I have?

So now 2.8 is out can you still get the 2 piece pve set bonus for pvp and get max expertise still? I heard someone say u can do it and get 2014 exp but now sure how they did this

For PVP, I recommend having the 2-piece PVE and 2-piece PVP set bonuses. Based on brief use of the "Bolsterizer" on Fleet, 162/150/146 continues to receive full Expertise, and an Arkanian piece (162/162/162) receives nearly full Expertise. I suspect that 162/162/162 is ideal, though I encourage you to experiment with the "Bolsterizer" and share with me any questions or findings.

[T]hough the +50 force isn't awesome it has its use, what would you say is the threshold to use it or not ?

I'd estimate that having the PVE Mystic's 4-piece set bonus (i.e., +50 Force) is better than about two tiers of Item Rating. For example, if your only Armorings with the PVE Mystic's 4-piece are Arkanian, Dread Forged > Arkanian > Kell Dragon > Underworld.

It can depend on the fight; in particular, whether it has one or more lulls that permit you to top up your Force between periods of intense damage. I can use most of my Force, and then top it up, several times during Dread Guards, Titan 6, or Brontes, so +50 Force is a valuable set bonus. In contrast, Thrasher doesn't have a lull between periods of intense damage, so +50 Force is lackluster.

For PVP, I recommend having the 2-piece PVE and 2-piece PVP set bonuses. Based on brief use of the "Bolsterizer" on Fleet, 162/150/146 continues to receive full Expertise, and an Arkanian piece (162/162/162) receives nearly full Expertise. I suspect that 162/162/162 is ideal, though I encourage you to experiment with the "Bolsterizer" and share with me any questions or findings.

My sorc Andreus uses the 162/162/162 setup.* I can confirm that the expertise penalty for 162 PVE gear is 1 expertise per mod slot.

So an Arkanian 162/162/162 will have a penalty of 3 expertise. 2 full Arkanian pieces (for the set bonus)=2012 expertise, and the disparity between PVE/PVP set bonuses is well worth it. As 162 is also where PVP gear tops out at right now, any non-expertise stats on the Arkanian gear should not change. This information will help you min-max your required PVE pieces, as you do NOT need to rely on bolster to upgrade your non-expertise stats in this situation--you can limit its effects to expertise only, which makes it easier to control.

As always never mix PVP/PVE armorings/mods in the same piece of gear as that WILL mess up your bolster far beyond the token penalty described above.

*Technically I run 162/162/162 and 162/162/156 pieces to get my 2 piece PVE set bonus, as I lack a separate PVE min-maxed 162 mod, but the bolster penalty seems to be the same per enhancement between 156 and 162 mods. If it is not, then the small dose of PVE gear required for set bonus gives the same -1 expertise/mod due to rounding error in the small sample size.

The best guide for healing on this site. I heal when needed and this guide should be tagged. I subscribed to it and added you as a friend if you don't mind. Good Sorcerers have to stick together.

Thanks! Please subscribe to this thread, instead. I've closed this thread, and won't be updating it, because I added some content to the OP that caused it to exceed the character limit for a single post. I split the Guide into two posts in the thread that I linked above, so I won't run into that issue in the future.

Sadly no mouse over healing and macros are outright banned. An option is to use the F keys (default) to target group members if you know their position. Another option is to use focus target on your tank and then use focus target modifier (its Home/End or something silly by default, so may need to rebind). I have gotten used to just clicking the raid frames but would be happy for mouse over healing.

Wish they would allow the UI customisation to make your raid frames be 2 high and go across the screen more than up...

I like to have my Raid frames just above my task bar... But his takes up half you screen and can cover your own character if you don't resize

Having them only 2 high and 4 across would take up less screen space

If anyone knows how to do this for 8 man pvp frames... Please let me know

Very nice guide. While I'm not entirely used to Sage healing, I can still proudly say I'm competent enough at it, that a lot of the various PVE tips should be pretty obvious. However, when I'm on my tank, I've seen sage healers end up with 0 force because they're terrible at managing said force (and it's not because I'm losing aggro, and the healer needs to heal the DPS, in fact I am quite good on all 3 tank types at keeping aggro, even when outgeared by a DPS).

On that matter though, when I see that my group is quite topped up on heals, I'll generally dish out some decent DPS, even if this sends my force down by quite a bit. Because I'll have my self heal up, and the 3 stacks ready for a non debuffing noble sacrifice. I might DPS more often if our other DPS are not as well geared or doing well with their rotation (as was the case in a previous). I'm just wondering if there is a place for decent sage healers, dpsing.

I'm just wondering if there is a place for decent sage healers, dpsing.

Absolutely... Especially when you have good tanks and DPS... It can get boring waiting for everyone to need healing... I quite often DPS... After healing in PVP... Ops and FPS can seem a bit boring

Amazing work. That spreadsheet is especially useful. Have you updated the data for more recent versions? I'm willing to help keep it current.

For the up-to-date Guide and Model, see here. I had to split the Guide into two posts, and I no longer update this thread.

[W]hen I see that my group is quite topped up on heals, I'll generally dish out some decent DPS, even if this sends my force down by quite a bit. Because I'll have my self heal up, and the 3 stacks ready for a non debuffing noble sacrifice. I might DPS more often if our other DPS are not as well geared or doing well with their rotation (as was the case in a previous). I'm just wondering if there is a place for decent sage healers, dpsing.

A full Seer can DPS. Of course, the more challenging the healing, the fewer the GCDs for DPS.

Note, too, that a Scoundrel or Commando healer has higher DPS. This rarely matters, but it can for the second phase of Nightmare Dread Masters.

At least in PvP, I've always noticed that commando healers had DPS way ahead of other healers.

That's good that I'm on track then. Pugging HM FPs, you certainly learn the good, the bad, and the ugly XD