In my original post, I stated a one-sentence opinion regarding Merc DPS:

And you do not play one, nor care about them, therefor you have no clue what so ever whether or not that is a buff or a nerf, LET ALONE "fixed in general" which we clearly are not. also note that response he specificly says " THE WHOLE CLASS NEEDS ....." That would include merc heals bro, you just decided to take is as an attack on you, when it clearly wasn't.

I play merc heals as well as dps, all the way up to S+V HM, and when I play WZ's, I spec heals. Simply because as heals I can last longer and do more good for my team. The whole, "spec pyro" bs is just that. BS. Roll a ranged turret class because that's what your interested in, then if you wanna pvp viably, you have to spec melee?? Thats not a fix, thats a cop out, and anyone championing this way of thinking is utterly blind to the fact that people creating mercs are not creating them for melee, or they would have gone powertech AC.

In my original post, I stated a one-sentence opinion regarding Merc DPS:

Which was combatted by the following post, and from there it exploded:

Quoted from dictionary.com, Argument: "a statement, reason, or fact for or against a point"

 

I made a point. It was argued by another. Thus, the argument was not started by me.

An argument is a statement against a point. You made the point which was argued against. Kinda need that to have an argument in the first place don't you? Seems like you can't have one without the other. It's ok though. Wouldn't want you to think it was possible for you to be mistaken.

I gave you three chances to drop this:

 

Your persistence in this argument and your unwillingness to drop it brings to light your true, argumentative intentions which constitute as 'Trolling' by the terms of service. You have been reported for trolling and ignored. It's clear to me that no one in this thread can accept the fact that I have a question to ask Eric Musco. It appears I will have to make my own thread for it. Continue this argument there, and you will be reported for thread hijacking.

 

Have a nice day.

How are you going to know I've continued the argument for thread jacking if you've ignored me? Quite the quandry methinks. Also considering you've been equally unwilling to drop the argument and concede you were mistaken with your earlier point so we can get back to merc healing, I'd say you're equally guilty of trolling, at least by your implied definition. It's clear to me you can't accept the fact that you made a mistake, and that the responsibility for the derailment lies, at least in part, with you.

You have a nice day as well! Thanks for keeping the thread bumped!

So. No one logged into pts yesterday and noticed some of the "non mentioned' changes??

 

High velocity gas cylinder has had 5% more armor pen added, and the heat venting completely removed. So our heat management is now worse. Add in the final 2.0 changes of running the high heat cost HSM on the second gcd, and we're gonna be in real trouble in pve heat management as well as pvp.

I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. HVGC/AP Cell was venting heat/recharging ammo? That's honestly news to me. Also using HSM on the second GCD is no more expensive really than using TM. Same cost really.

And you do not play one, nor care about them, therefor you have no clue what so ever whether or not that is a buff or a nerf, LET ALONE "fixed in general" which we clearly are not. also note that response he specificly says " THE WHOLE CLASS NEEDS ....." That would include merc heals bro, you just decided to take is as an attack on you, when it clearly wasn't.

 

I play merc heals as well as dps, all the way up to S+V HM, and when I play WZ's, I spec heals. Simply because as heals I can last longer and do more good for my team. The whole, "spec pyro" bs is just that. BS. Roll a ranged turret class because that's what your interested in, then if you wanna pvp viably, you have to spec melee?? Thats not a fix, thats a cop out, and anyone championing this way of thinking is utterly blind to the fact that people creating mercs are not creating them for melee, or they would have gone powertech AC.

I do not play them. This is true. What is untrue is the assumption that I have not played them. Present tense VS past tense. I've played arsenal quite a bit, in both PvP and PvE.

Also, while I never mentioned Pyrotech at all (and I'm pretty sure you're replying to someone else on that comment), I don't believe the mercenary version has any abilities less than 30m at all. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure about it.

So what you are saying is, " If you want to fix merc pvp, just buff pyro and make every single person that leveled a ranged bounty hunter spec melee"??? Yeah, that's a "fix".

I'm pretty sure when he says "pyro" he means the merc version, not powertech. Otherwise I'm not really sure where you're getting the "buff pyro and make everyone melee melee" thing =/

 

Yea it was, and HSM is a 25 heat shot, where TM is 16 heat. That's front loading a higher heat shot earlier in our rotation. While casting TM, our heat was still dissipating between shots, with HSM, there is no cast, I.E no dissipation thereby causing our heat to ramp up , and dissipation to ramp down, much faster. Heat diss works on a tiered system, the higher your heat is, the slower it dissipates. It's not a stupendous amount, but added with our cylinder not giving passive heat diss ( which it DID before thru terminal velocity talent) it makes the heat management an issue again, as we're at a lower dissipation rate earlier on by almost 3 seconds.

 

Hope that clears my point up, and thanx for the response

I do not play them. This is true. What is untrue is the assumption that I have not played them. Present tense VS past tense. I've played arsenal quite a bit, in both PvP and PvE.

 

Also, while I never mentioned Pyrotech at all (and I'm pretty sure you're replying to someone else on that comment), I don't believe the mercenary version has any abilities less than 30m at all. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure about it.

You are talking past tense, as in BEFORE THESE CHANGES!! You have no clue what so ever how these changes actually effect us.

Did you not think of that fact yourself, or are you truly just trying to argue with anyone that will respond to you?

I would much rather believe that you haven't tested anything for 2.0, including healing considering your lack of knowledge in the HO department, then to think you are just jabbin for the sake of jabbin.

And as to the merc pyrotech tree, go play it before making assumptions. That is what started this mess in the first place.

Yea it was, and HSM is a 25 heat shot, where TM is 16 heat. That's front loading a higher heat shot earlier in our rotation. While casting TM, our heat was still dissipating between shots, with HSM, there is no cast, I.E no dissipation thereby causing our heat to ramp up , and dissipation to ramp down, much faster. Heat diss works on a tiered system, the higher your heat is, the slower it dissipates. It's not a stupendous amount, but added with our cylinder not giving passive heat diss ( which it DID before thru terminal velocity talent) it makes the heat management an issue again, as we're at a lower dissipation rate earlier on by almost 3 seconds.

 

Hope that clears my point up, and thanx for the response

ummmm, again was that a recent change? Demo Round/HSM is 16 ammo/heat. That's how it is on live and that's how it was on PTS, at least at first.

I know how ammo regen works, but you're wrong that you don't regen ammo for instant casts. The difference between TM and HSM is that one consumes its ammo at the beginning of the GCD and one consumes it at the end. What this means is that if using HSM will put you into mid tier regen it's better to use TM since you'll get that GCD's worth of regen all in top tier instead of in mid tier. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Conversely, when at full ammo/heat it would be better to use an instant since you're not essentially wasting a GCD's worth of regen at full ammo.

The rest of the time it doesn't matter and TM > HSM will consume no more ammo than 2x TM.

ummmm, again was that a recent change? Demo Round/HSM is 16 ammo/heat. That's how it is on live and that's how it was on PTS, at least at first.

 

I know how ammo regen works, but you're wrong that you don't regen ammo for instant casts. The difference between TM and HSM is that one consumes its ammo at the beginning of the GCD and one consumes it at the end. What this means is that if using HSM will put you into mid tier regen it's better to use TM since you'll get that GCD's worth of regen all in top tier instead of in mid tier. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Conversely, when at full ammo/heat it would be better to use an instant since you're not essentially wasting a GCD's worth of regen at full ammo.

 

The rest of the time it doesn't matter and TM > HSM will consume no more ammo than 2x TM.

1.4 second cast compared to a 1 sec gcd. yeah theres 40% more time to dissipate between shots. so yes, you are ramping up faster. cast two tracer missles and see what your heat is as that second missle leaves your arm. then let the heat come down to 0, cast a tracer missle and a HSM. Then look at what your heat is as the HSM leaves your arm. low and behold, your heat is higher. Over the course of a 4-6 minute fight ( most boss fights) you will notice that difference.

As to the change to hsm heat cost and cylinder, yes that was implimented yesterday without actually saying what all the changes were. refer to AP's post on the 2.0 merc changes that aren't going on pts, somewhere near that post in the dev tracker is the post where they said they "added some love to core abilities on pts today" but failed to mention what those changes were. THOSE are the changes i was up all last night testing till shutdown.

As for the pyrotech merc, yeah i call them a melee. why? well thats easy. they are still not a kite class, nor do they have any better kiting, slowing or messing abilities as a merc does. I.E., you get one or two ranged casts off while they are coming at you, then its a melee fight. i should have been more clear on that as being the way i've seen it played, as i have limited experience with pyro. That's my bad and i hope this clears up my reasoning.

peace peeps

1.4 second cast compared to a 1 sec gcd. yeah theres 40% more time to dissipate between shots. so yes, you are ramping up faster. cast two tracer missles and see what your heat is as that second missle leaves your arm. then let the heat come down to 0, cast a tracer missle and a HSM. Then look at what your heat is as the HSM leaves your arm. low and behold, your heat is higher. Over the course of a 4-6 minute fight ( most boss fights) you will notice that difference.

As to the change to hsm heat cost and cylinder, yes that was implimented yesterday without actually saying what all the changes were. refer to AP's post on the 2.0 merc changes that aren't going on pts, somewhere near that post in the dev tracker is the post where they said they "added some love to core abilities on pts today" but failed to mention what those changes were. THOSE are the changes i was up all last night testing till shutdown.

 

As for the pyrotech merc, yeah i call them a melee. why? well thats easy. they are still not a kite class, nor do they have any better kiting, slowing or messing abilities as a merc does. I.E., you get one or two ranged casts off while they are coming at you, then its a melee fight. i should have been more clear on that as being the way i've seen it played, as i have limited experience with pyro. That's my bad and i hope this clears up my reasoning.

 

peace peeps

GCD is 1.5 seconds though (before any alacrity). You can't look at heat immediately after the HSM goes out because you haven't gone through the 1 gcd worth of regen. You have to look at heat when you're free to use abilities again. I promise you it's the same. Slightly better on live atm actually since alacrity doesn't lower the GCD on live for instant abilities.

Merc isn't a kite class period in either DPS spec really. They're gonna be on you quick either way.

I can't find that dev post you're talking about. I found AP's in the dev tracker, unless you mean when they originally announced there were incoming changes coming to merc/commando, but it's been long enough I'm surprised I haven't heard about that. I definitely didn't notice last time I was on PTS but now I can't remember if that was before that update or not.

Don't suppose you took a screenshot? Sorry dude, but I don't know you, so gotta with "pics or it didn't happen".

Part of me wants to say even BW wouldn't be that dumb. Then I remember who I'm talking about, and now I don't know what I believe.

And as to the merc pyrotech tree, go play it before making assumptions. That is what started this mess in the first place.

the way i've seen it played, as i have limited experience with pyro

but added with our cylinder not giving passive heat diss ( which it DID before thru terminal velocity talent) it makes the heat management an issue again

So wait, Terminal Velocity and Cell Charger no longer vent heat? Have they been removed completely? Replaced with something else?

That would be an *epic* nerf to gunnery/arsenal, even in PvP. Can someone confirm?

So wait, Terminal Velocity and Cell Charger no longer vent heat? Have they been removed completely? Replaced with something else?

 

That would be an *epic* nerf to gunnery/arsenal, even in PvP. Can someone confirm?

*facepalms* tell me they did not do this....

So wait, Terminal Velocity and Cell Charger no longer vent heat? Have they been removed completely? Replaced with something else?

 

That would be an *epic* nerf to gunnery/arsenal, even in PvP. Can someone confirm?

I'm staying skeptical honestly. This seems like a claim with no basis in reality. It would be the most ridiculous change they've ever done to us.

Which ok, fair enough, is an argument in FAVOR of it being true, but still.

*facepalms* tell me they did not do this....

No confirmation yet, there's only one person posting this and so far we haven't seen a screenshot or anything to prove it.

I agree the Merc class on the whole needs some love. I play both Arsenal and Bodyguard, and while this change should help Arsenal some, it's still not enough.

As far as Bodyguard - I love my Bodyguard Merc. I've healed up to TFB HM on live with him. The new Kolto Pods on the PTS are great, as is the talent that makes Kolto Shell better (although having to spec into that useless "trigger your own Kolto Shell" skill is annoying and stupid), but from what I've seen Sorcs got a massive boost on the PTS and can outheal us greatly now.

I'm staying skeptical honestly. This seems like a claim with no basis in reality. It would be the most ridiculous change they've ever done to us.

 

Which ok, fair enough, is an argument in FAVOR of it being true, but still.

Heheh yeah, as much as it'd be par for the course, the ramifications would be huge. Always best to get a second pair of eyes confirming something, as mistakes are easily made.

Could also just be a bug, which is why I'd like to know whether cell charger was actually removed/replaced, or is just not working.

As far as Bodyguard - I love my Bodyguard Merc. I've healed up to TFB HM on live with him. The new Kolto Pods on the PTS are great, as is the talent that makes Kolto Shell better (although having to spec into that useless "trigger your own Kolto Shell" skill is annoying and stupid), but from what I've seen Sorcs got a massive boost on the PTS and can outheal us greatly now.

The AoE heal isn't too bad it's just a little weak. Kinda nice how it's bugged in our favor though (says it only heals 4 peeps, but it actually has an unlimited amount, from what I can tell). Yeah its annoying you have to spec into that stupid other skill... While it's not direct proof, the fact is that I've had a mercenary healer for some time, and when I tried all three imperial healing classes on the PTS, I picked sorc and operative up in seconds, and can heal nearly twice as well on them as with merc.

I stand by my original idea:

Just add a simple skill like operatives have, like "Rapid Shots critical hits vent (1/2) heat while Combat Support Cylinder is active." A two point skill, a simple fix, a dramatic effect.

The AoE heal isn't too bad it's just a little weak. Kinda nice how it's bugged in our favor though (says it only heals 4 peeps, but it actually has an unlimited amount, from what I can tell). Yeah its annoying you have to spec into that stupid other skill... While it's not direct proof, the fact is that I've had a mercenary healer for some time, and when I tried all three imperial healing classes on the PTS, I picked sorc and operative up in seconds, and can heal nearly twice as well on them as with merc.

 

I stand by my original idea:

I'm not sure that's a bug, I think that's intentional (like how the heal from our knockback and the Sorc's Overload has no effective upper limit).

As for your idea, it's a good one and I like it, although I rarely have heat issues that I can't handle on my Healing Merc. Not for long, anyways. I can cover a Sorc when he needs to use Consumption, and he can cover me when my heat needs time to go down.

I'm not sure that's a bug, I think that's intentional (like how the heal from our knockback and the Sorc's Overload has no effective upper limit).

 

As for your idea, it's a good one and I like it, although I rarely have heat issues that I can't handle on my Healing Merc. Not for long, anyways. I can cover a Sorc when he needs to use Consumption, and he can cover me when my heat needs time to go down.

The only reason I would call it a bug is because the tooltip says the max is 4... and it's not

Heheh yeah, as much as it'd be par for the course, the ramifications would be huge. Always best to get a second pair of eyes confirming something, as mistakes are easily made.

 

Could also just be a bug, which is why I'd like to know whether cell charger was actually removed/replaced, or is just not working.

No finding out now till April 9th!

The only reason I would call it a bug is because the tooltip says the max is 4... and it's not

IIRC, the mini puddle talent doesn't say specifically it's limited to 4 targets though (AFAIK it's internally capped at 20). And the first hit (unless they've changed it) is STILL limited to 4 targets.

So, while it could be done more clearly, I'm fairly sure it's WAI

Also, I'm very much sure that the cell generator thing is just somebody misreading something. Not even bioware would break us that bad, and even if that was the case, a fix would be coming fast.

and when i realized that mistake, i apologized and said my bad. your point is?

and when i realized that mistake, i apologized and said my bad. your point is?

You are talking past tense, as in BEFORE THESE CHANGES!! You have no clue what so ever how these changes actually effect us.

Did you not think of that fact yourself, or are you truly just trying to argue with anyone that will respond to you?

I would much rather believe that you haven't tested anything for 2.0, including healing considering your lack of knowledge in the HO department, then to think you are just jabbin for the sake of jabbin.

And as to the merc pyrotech tree, go play it before making assumptions. That is what started this mess in the first place.

You told me how stupid it was to do that, then you went ahead and did the exact same thing. It was hillarious, that's my point.

 

I stand by my original idea:

how exactly would more energy regen increase Merc Healer performance? you could reduce the heat cost of all Merc heals to 0, and the spec would still be the 3rd best in PvP. in PvE it would probably help a bit, but Merc heals is not as handicapped in PvE as it is in PvP.

the biggest issues with Merc heals in PvP is the same problem that Arsenal has: vulnerability to interrupts and lack of mobility. a single competent DPSer can pretty much shutdown a Merc Healer. having more heat is not going to make you heal on the move or under pressure better.

how exactly would more energy regen increase Merc Healer performance? you could reduce the heat cost of all Merc heals to 0, and the spec would still be the 3rd best in PvP. in PvE it would probably help a bit, but Merc heals is not as handicapped in PvE as it is in PvP.

 

the biggest issues with Merc heals in PvP is the same problem that Arsenal has: vulnerability to interrupts and lack of mobility. a single competent DPSer can pretty much shutdown a Merc Healer. having more heat is not going to make you heal on the move or under pressure better.

Uh... such has not been my experience in PVP. Granted I haven't done rateds, but I refuse to believe there isn't a *single* competent DPS that's tried focusing me down in regular matches when I've clearly been marked.

I can hold off one or two DPS. More if my shield is off cooldown. Not indefinitely, but long enough to get help, and certainly without getting completely shut down.

I'm not saying there's not work to be done - we're behind other healers in PVP. But being shut down by a single DPS? Hasn't happened to me.