Not really it is a troll who posts topics that can't be changed

 

You either have no ranged classes (which will never happen) or you nerf ranged classes completely (which again will never happen)

 

Every single game has this issue, EVERY game

 

At least this game has some gap closers and longer then melee range abilities for melee that other games do not

Some games (i.e. WoW and Rift) made significant changes to their encounters to make them more melee-friendly. So yeah, not every single game currently has this issue. It's a pretty big problem when melee players start being benched in favor of range especially in this day and age of MMOs.

Roll an Operative to 50, then come talk.

I didn't realize Operatives attracted an abnormally large number of affects that interrupted them from their duty...

Really though it's just a problem with MMO's in general. SWTOR does it a little better than some because most (most) melee dps have some ranged abilities too. That's partially why I like playing an operative so much. Stab it to death, then when it AOE's back up to range, go into cover and pew pew it till it stops.

You obviously haven't played Wow or SWTOR at all.

This problem has existed in almost every MMO that has ever been out, if not exactly all of them.

The issue has always been hard to solve, and that's why most people roll ranged classes. Melee classes always have and always will require more focus and effort than ranged classes, there's simply no way around it.

This is sadly true.

I don't see a reason to bring a melee class over a ranged class.

This problem has existed in almost every MMO that has ever been out, if not exactly all of them.

The issue has always been hard to solve, and that's why most people roll ranged classes. Melee classes always have and always will require more focus and effort than ranged classes, there's simply no way around it.

Instead of just saying "there is no way around it", how about discussing some of the examples I have given. If, for example, you made Jorlands PBAoE ability have a minimum range, then you might actually beat the encounter with 2 melee, when they have not all epics. How is that "no way"?

Instead of just saying "there is no way around it", how about discussing some of the examples I have given. If, for example, you made Jorlands PBAoE ability have a minimum range, then you might actually beat the encounter with 2 melee, when they have not all epics. How is that "no way"?

It's not like I'm saying that you can't do certain encounters with melees, but they do require more effort, and even with a minimum range you'd still have to move quite a bit more than ranged, resulting in a DPS loss. It's a simple fact, melee are still viable, but people tend to go for the classes that require less effort. Unfortunately the melee classes require a great deal extra effort.

It's not like I'm saying that you can't do certain encounters with melees, but they do require more effort, and even with a minimum range you'd still have to move quite a bit more than ranged, resulting in a DPS loss. It's a simple fact, melee are still viable, but people tend to go for the classes that require less effort. Unfortunately the melee classes require a great deal extra effort.

The movement issue is why melee classes generally tend to do more damage since they have less uptime on a target. As I mentioned before, other MMOs have made their boss fights more melee-friendly. Maybe 7 years ago this wasn't the case but it's certainly the case now in the most popular MMOs.

There is no reason to accept that melee should be significantly more difficult to play when encounters really can be made to accommodate them better.

Stop with that point already, just because this issue might have existed in WoW also, doesnt mean its not an issue still, and should be addressed. Or should we just roll over?

 

Infact tho, I was a member in a rather successful raiding guild in WoW, and the truth is that skilled rogues and warriors were on par with ranged in terms of DPS, because yes, their DPS while on target was slightly higher, which evens out because they have to move around more and position themself. Additionally, again, warriors and rogues had more abilities (not just gap closers, but self-healing, evasion, etc. talents) to alleviate the effect of AE damage. So stop with it already.

Ehm also many bosses made it extremly hard to be ranged dps, I played both mage and rogue, Ialways hadin both cases regarding those classes times where I was needed/wanted and times when I was not needed nor wanted. If you want tosolve ranged/melee dps all you have to do is ask for developersto make different encounters strong to different classes, they already do and I am sure they will continue. My pyrotech is more close sometimes melee range but my arms is range but have to stay still longer, my pyrotech is better than my arms a lot of times in this game I have noticed.

So chill! Oh and it is not just WoW, but ANY MMO ever.

It's not like I'm saying that you can't do certain encounters with melees, but they do require more effort, and even with a minimum range you'd still have to move quite a bit more than ranged, resulting in a DPS loss. It's a simple fact, melee are still viable, but people tend to go for the classes that require less effort. Unfortunately the melee classes require a great deal extra effort.

There are plenty of ways that the field can be leveled, it's disappointing that the developers simply require more effort from one group rather than putting in the effort themselves.

The movement issue is why melee classes generally tend to do more damage since they have less uptime on a target. As I mentioned before, other MMOs have made their boss fights more melee-friendly. Maybe 7 years ago this wasn't the case but it's certainly the case now in the most popular MMOs.

 

There is no reason to accept that melee should be significantly more difficult to play when encounters really can be made to accommodate them better.

This is just my personal opinion ofcourse, but I like the fact that melee is more difficult to play than ranged, when I played WoW a while back I played a Mage, I tried a hunter and other ranged classes, most of the time I could be half asleep and still pull good DPS, there just wasn't any fun in it.

With melee I feel like I'm facing a challange for once, but again, this is just me.

OP is just right.

when the NPC cast a AoE fire probe even if you outside the Range, you still get burned.

so it's wasted time to move.

OP is just right.

when the NPC cast a AoE fire probe even if you outside the Range, you still get burned.

so it's wasted time to move.

^ This, even when soloing.

Me - mob

The mob drops an AoE on my position, so I run around behind him and hit him from that side.

AoE - mob - me

The AoE STILL hits me if I stay in melee range .

There are 2 problems here:

1) AoE abilities extend way beyond their markers (any BH/Trooper players should know this already).

2) These abilities are stupid when used at point-blank range against melee classes. For ranged classes, it's interesting/forces you to move, but for melee it's plainly stupid.

The movement issue is why melee classes generally tend to do more damage since they have less uptime on a target. As I mentioned before, other MMOs have made their boss fights more melee-friendly. Maybe 7 years ago this wasn't the case but it's certainly the case now in the most popular MMOs.

 

There is no reason to accept that melee should be significantly more difficult to play when encounters really can be made to accommodate them better.

I absolutely agree, thats the point I am making. They alleviated this on a couple of items:

- balanced DPS to account for increased movement/position requirement of melee DPS

- smarter and more balanced encounter design

- utilities for melee to get back into the fight quick: movement abilities, self-healing, AE avoidance

Well, with last 2 expansions WoW became TOTALLY melee-friendly.

Hard time (if you can call it hard) was for Ranged DPS.

Also, in terms of group make up for bosses and such, it's best to be able to have some flexibility in your raid groups.

If you get booted because of your class, the game design is a failure.

Well, with last 2 expansions WoW became TOTALLY melee-friendly.

 

Hard time (if you can call it hard) was for Ranged DPS.

You mean in wrath where even the low dps warlocks occupied more raid spots in top end guilds because of the utility they brought, where ranged had more work but were required and therefor more sought after? Or cataclysm where it was rough to get into heroics early on due to lacking CC as melee and up time was so bad they couldn't compete on the raid meters for a long time?

Just want to ensure we're talking about the same last 2 expansions... cata was the first time I actually shelved all my melee.

You mean in wrath where even the low dps warlocks occupied more raid spots in top end guilds because of the utility they brought, where ranged had more work but were required and therefor more sought after? Or cataclysm where it was rough to get into heroics early on due to lacking CC as melee and up time was so bad they couldn't compete on the raid meters for a long time?

 

Just want to ensure we're talking about the same last 2 expansions... cata was the first time I actually shelved all my melee.

With melee-friendly i meant boss tactics/mechanics, melees apart from kick didn't have to move/avoid stuff/change targets.

If we talk about utilities then ok, ranged had way more than melee.But the encounters per-se were way easier for melees.

With melee-friendly i meant boss tactics/mechanics, melees apart from kick didn't have to move/avoid stuff/change targets.

 

If we talk about utilities then ok, ranged had way more than melee.But the encounters per-se were way easier for melees.

So your definition of melee friendly means they had less responsibility and therefore were less likely to have a spot in the group? Doesn't seem very friendly to me.

One solution is to give ranged DPS cast times and melee DPS instant abilities.

Another is to give melee DPS higher armor than ranged.

Of course if you design encounters that dont provide melee with opportunities to utilize those advantages then its pretty much a waste. Thats the situation we are in now.

Fortunately, my Operative has a healing spec and a DOT spec (albeit its not really a ranged spec) so I should be able to find a place if I so choose.

I thought I'll bring this up here, since it has been really bothering me lately. Hopefully developers (Hello Georg!) will read this, and this will be addressed. In short:

 

Ranged DPS as of right now have massive advantages over Melee DPS in a number of encounters, especially in HM FPs and Ops, whereas the opposite is never the case. While this can be argued for other games too, I feel its excessive in this game, making some encounters considerably harder, i.e. when you have 2 melee DPS in the group, and giving incentive to raid leaders to just get range DPS.

 

1. Melee are much more subjected to AOE abilities on several encounters, while Ranged DPS can avoid it easily in many cases. Sure, many AOE abilities are avoidable for melee by having them run out or spread out, but that leads us to point 2:

 

2. Trying to avoid AOE abilities for melee DPS by running out causes their sustained DPS to drop off relatively to Ranged DPS.

 

Here are just 3 examples, I am sure there are many more.

 

 

 

Example 1:

 

Boarding Party HM Final boss

 

The Commander's missile puts melee DPS at a much greater disadvantage, due to the fact that they have to stand closer together and cant really spread out from each other to avoid the AE damage.

 

Example 2:

 

Khel Thrak (2nd boss Battle of Ilum)

 

Same thing as in example 1, with his shield probe ability. I am aware melee should avoid hitting him when he gets the buff, but ranged DPS dont really have to worry about ever taking that damage. Secondly, moving away from him when the adds spawn is another burden that Ranged DPS dont have to deal with, at all. This gives them an advantage on damage dealt as well.

 

Example 3:

 

Gharj (2nd Boss Eternity Vault)

 

His pounce ability is not that critical, but it still serves as an example of: Melee DPS have to eat dmg, while Ranged DPS do not. Because Ranged DPS do not have to run out, they have higher sustained DPS because of melee DPS travel time.

 

Example 4:

 

SOA (Final Boss Eternity Vault)

 

The very design of the fight (especially on middle & bottom platform) requires alot of running around and switching targets. Again, because of their longer travel time (even with current mobility abilties) gimp their DPS noticably. Additionally, the lightning balls are much more dangerous for melee DPS than for ranged DPS, due to the fact that they are forced to stand much closer together, while ranged can spread.

 

 

 

To alleviate this i can think of several solutions. I am aware that these bring along other balance issues in PVP. They are only suggestions, and there is more discussion required:

 

- Give melee dps higher DPS which should even out sustained DPS over a fight, because they cant DPS some bosses for the same duration than ranged can.

- Increase their mobility

- Give them some sort of AOE mitigation.

George Zoeller already said he doesn't care for the consumer, so your complaints fall on deaf ears.