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Deception Stat priority and talent concerns


nosmos

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Ok...I find a great lack of information regarding deception - most likely because people stopped playing it for the longest time.

 

I am having a difficult time trying to stack a lot of power, as i do on my marauder - without having less then 100/110 accuracy and around 31 percent crit.

The issue is, we have no talent to increase crit / willpower or accuracy like every other class.

 

Since 2 of our main attacks are white damage and the other two are force - using a low accuracy seems like a bold choice. Don't want maul missing on boss fights.

 

I have found that, in trying to get 1000 or more force damage with a surge of 75 or more - i have to loose accuracy and crit...teh hell to do?

Edited by nosmos
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Ok...I find a great lack of information regarding deception - most likely because people stopped playing it for the longest time.

 

I am having a difficult time trying to stack a lot of power, as i do on my marauder - without having less then 100/110 accuracy and around 31 percent crit.

The issue is, we have no talent to increase crit / willpower or accuracy like every other class.

 

Since 2 of our main attacks are white damage and the other two are force - using a low accuracy seems like a bold choice. Don't want maul missing on boss fights.

 

I have found that, in trying to get 1000 or more force damage with a surge of 75 or more - i have to loose accuracy and crit...teh hell to do?

 

I dont think its that big of a deal if your Maul misses, because your Exploit Weakness proc will remain active so you only lose a global. As far as some of the Assassins that I have talked to that can get more dps from Deception than Madness all say that increasing crit is the key. Not exactly sure what to shoot for but I would start dropping some Power for Willpower and dropping Accuracy for more crit. Just dont get too crazy. Im sure that a 1% loss of Accuracy is more than made up for by 1% of crit.

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Right now my stats in PVE for dps deception sit at:

FORCE

Bonus Damage: 980.1

Accuracy: 108.31

Critical Chance: 33.79

Critical Multiplier: 77.36

 

Melee

Damage: 1087-1289

Bonus Damage: 682.8

Accuracy: 98.35

Critical Chance: 34.64

Critical Multiplier: 77.36

 

I could gain some more power - but I would loose more crit or accuracy or surge. I have been using my sin deception in raiding now (switched from my mara) and I can keep up with our mara and pt's etc, some fights im on top because of the burst. Longer boss fights im usually within a percent or two. The thing that drives me absolutely nuts is the spiky damage. I can go a few discharges before i see a big number, same with shock and maul.

 

Other guild mates, have around 1100 bonus damage with around 40 crit chance...why? Because they have talents to boost crit. The deception tree needs this - or put it in the madness tree as a first tier skill

 

EDIT:

 

Also, my health is at 20862

and willpower = 2063

Edited by nosmos
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the stats are from which tier ?!

 

Not too sure what you mean - but I think adding an increased crit percent to the entropic field talent would be nice. That or, like veng jugs and carnage marauders - give us a combo that makes discharge or maul automatically crit

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For PVP I usually rock the Chainshock, since the extra shock can usually down someone running away from me after I burst them down to 15 health in 7 seconds - for PVE i usually do the 7/31/3 build. In TFB hardmode, I can usually keep up with our marauders and pt's, within a few percent and sometimes on top - but the damage is so spiky since maul / discharge may not even crit in a rotation or two - and since we have no combo to make something automatically crit (like Carnage's force scream / juggs etc) or no talent to increase willpower, crit chance or acc - its hard to get that crit chance up there while maintaining lots of power.

 

Very frustrating! Played on my sniper for a bit last night, all three trees in the first talent or 2nd talent area have - Increased accuracy talent, increased Cunning Talent, Increased Critical Chance talent!

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so for PvE what rotation do you use ?!

 

I usually discharge, and sometimes it crits to 4 and a half k plus right off the start which is nice - then VS x2, shock, maul, blackout and keep going - force cloak, repeat - blackout etc. If im starting the fight off, i hit recklesness and overcharge saber from stealth before I open up

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to agree the deception tree, or in fact assassins needs something to boost their sub stats up.

I mean here are few example to point out. Snipers get 3% accuracy and 3% crit if speccd, Mara/Sent can get 6% force crit(only) and a total of 6% accuracy is spcced in the middle tree or just 3% acc. Merc's can get 6% crit i believe as well. And i cant speak of other classes since i dont know anything about.

 

This is how my stats look fully buffed + rakata stim, (should used exotech)

http://imageshack.us/a/img542/9814/assassinstats.jpg

 

My stats are are a little behind yours, however though I am missing a few more pieces of BH items. Im missing 2x 61 MOD's, Hilt 26, 3x Resolve Armoring 26. I dont know if i did had these items if my bonus damage would be 1000+ (with exotech stim) but that not the point here, the fact that other classes have over 1030-1100 bonus damage is just nuts. In addition we have to sacrifice certain stats, for assassins you have to give up 1 thing to increase an another.

 

Even though deception got changed in 1.4 i still think madness better, in fact duplicity is much better for madness. Before 1.4 i had 1 point spced into this so if it procc i would use maul. Now its much better since i have 3 points in that now and with unhearthed knowledge active + duplicty your maul hits just as hard as if you were spccd into decep.

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Yeah...a guildy is on his alt merc DPS right now (his main is a sin tank) and he has just about 1200 power with around 34 crit - and he has 1 piece of 63...

 

Currently I have 987 force power with 35.62 crit for force -so about the same force crit but less power. And I have my main hand all decked in 63's, chest - with some armour mods and enhancments and a couple mods...

 

There's just no way that I will ever put out as much sustained DPS on a fight as him, because the entire assassin tree will not allow it.

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Right now my stats in PVE for dps deception sit at:

FORCE

Bonus Damage: 980.1

Accuracy: 108.31

Critical Chance: 33.79

Critical Multiplier: 77.36

 

Melee

Damage: 1087-1289

Bonus Damage: 682.8

Accuracy: 98.35

Critical Chance: 34.64

Critical Multiplier: 77.36

 

I could gain some more power - but I would loose more crit or accuracy or surge. I have been using my sin deception in raiding now (switched from my mara) and I can keep up with our mara and pt's etc, some fights im on top because of the burst. Longer boss fights im usually within a percent or two. The thing that drives me absolutely nuts is the spiky damage. I can go a few discharges before i see a big number, same with shock and maul.

 

Other guild mates, have around 1100 bonus damage with around 40 crit chance...why? Because they have talents to boost crit. The deception tree needs this - or put it in the madness tree as a first tier skill

 

EDIT:

 

Also, my health is at 20862

and willpower = 2063

 

I was a pure deceptsin before my guild made me a tank.

 

I dont recall everything and have not been deception for a long long time, but if the stats you quoted are true, you are missing crit which is why you are seeing spikes after long intervals. I would get crit to atleast 35, prolly 37 . lose a bit of power if you have to, maybe a little accuracy.

 

Basic rotation for deception iirc is 2xvs>reckless>adrenal>relic>shock> maul(if proc)>discharge after which you go to looking at procs.

If i remember the theorcrafting, CS is the way to go as your shock hits like a truck. so its better to go with the chain shock build. Its a toss up between torment and 6% extra VS damange, but I think with the new changes 6% vs wins.

 

also, I remember my VS being around 40% of the total damage I dealt, so it just makes more sense to add damage to it.

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@ Sankalp

 

My current crit for melee is around 39.50 and force is 38.55 with force power (and exotech stim) at 974.

 

I have experimented with lots of different stuff. My critical rating is 426 + buffs - and from around this point if i put more crit mods in it goes up by very little. DR.

 

My point is that - every other class can get this crit chance with ease, while maintaining around 1100+ power. This, along with the fact that our force refund mechanic is quite bad (for instance marauder carnage gets rage back when used, and then massacre from berserk etc), means that we will never have the sustained damage in a raid along with basic raw damage simply because the assassin tree has 1 passive talent increase - endurance, whereas every other class has crit / mainstat and or accuracy.

 

Even the classes and their mirror trees share these, whereas they forgot to put those in ours from our own mirror tree the sorc.

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I've added pics of my stats both buffed/stimmed and without. My gear Is campaign/Dread Guard that has been modded, also ALL my augments are willpower except one accuracy to push mine just over 100%

 

Buffed/stimmed: http://imageshack.us/a/img203/1572/decepryubuffstimstats.jpg

 

Unbuffed/no stim: http://imageshack.us/a/img856/4008/decepryunobuffstimstats.jpg

 

I also use a warhero relic of boundless ages and a battlemaster relic of forbidden secrets (which i plan on replacing when able with another WH relic)

 

EDIT: I've decided upon further reading to include a pic of my build (here: http://imageshack.us/a/img705/1310/decepryubuild2318.jpg )

 

As another note, I am a member of a 4/5 TfB HM ops group running with a marauder, and I am very able to keep up with him.. yes he still trumps me, but he himself admits that there are times during my burst rotation that I will out dps him (especially if we both time it right and he pops his blood thirst as I burn. xP)

Edited by Ryuri-Sama
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Yep, we are 5/5 tfb hm - and at times im on top for burst - mostly in trash fights. For bosses, the first minute or so I am on top then the sustained starts to dwindle in between waiting for blackout / stealth come off cool down.

 

Regardless, its unfair for us to be the only class without any sort of Crit chance talent / accuracy buff (in the stance or a talent) and mainstat.

 

This, in the end gimps us because we cant stack more power!

 

I am now mostly 63's, with about 1000+ power and 40 -ish crit melee etc - our maras, mercs - my other geared toons? i mean easily hit 1100+ power with the same crit chance and accuracy

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If you're playing PvP, I think its Force Masters stuff has a lot of Surge/Power stats, which is what you need ideally to deal some big numbers. The Stalker set gives you a good set bonus. So if you are playing PvP, I would get my Stalker set, then start to rip out the mods etc from Force Master gear to build surge.

 

Im full decep currently and hitting some big numbers (6.1k crit last night) and can take people down within seconds. Of course, coming up against Vanguards or any class that deals flame damage is something you need to stay away from as it just eats in to your health.

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We do have a talent that provides flat damage reduction, another talent that has flat endurance buff, and a talent that gives us 3% crit chance (via lightning charge and charge mastery).

 

I haven't bothered comparing it to other classes because I only ever play assassin, so I'm not arguing for or against the OP. I'm just saying it's there :p

 

Oh and P.S. it's not a big deal dropping some accuracy on your gear. While 3 of our 5 damage dealers are white damage, one (maul) can miss and still retain the buff. So you just lose a global and not the attack. With discharge and shock both being force, I feel safe in the idea that I can run 90% accuracy and miss the occasional voltaic slash or assassinate. Missing VS is not a big deal and while missing an assassinate will suck, I feel the increased damage on our other 4 skills would probably make up for it.

 

Feel free to run some numbers on it though and find out for certain, I'd be interested in determining our ideal accuracy. I feel we'd end up being best with 90%, but it would probably require a calculus equation that I haven't done in years.

Edited by JP_Legatus
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Hi, you sound like you play madness, and thats cool. You can talent for a bit extra crit for madness but not deception - my point is that every single other class has talents for mainstat / accuracy and or crit (force etc). We do not. We do not even have our mirror class talents (The sorc) whereas every single other class has their mirror class talents (Give or take one).

 

I don't play madness, I got bored of that back in March on my sorc. For Deception, Crit is king. Sure, we get bonus damage to our crits on maul and shock / discharge..every other class gets those too! What we are missing are talents for crit - in the stance itself or at least a mainstat talent etc...it frustrates me.

 

I run deception in end game ops (i switched from my mara when 1.4 hit because I always enjoyed my assassin but it wasnt beefy enough for deception). Well, on the puzzle droid in 16 man HM TFB, i am top dps. For Kephess, i was around 3rd, for TFB - i am top dps. My current power is around 996 force power with about 39.89 melee and 38.8 force. I am constantly changing mods and relics around to try out diff stats. The issue now is, if i had +40 or so more crit, the number barely goes up - might go from 39.89 melee to 40.41.

 

It is impossible for me to get a crit of around 39 with 1100+ power, unlike my guild mates on their respective chars.

 

EDIT: As for accuracy, VS is used the most since its a filler for deception, and usually in a parse it does say 38 percent damage while maul / shock are behind at like 25 or something...simply because its used more. Maul i am not TOO worried about missing since the exploit will still be up, but there's no way i want an attack thats used the most..missing...

I am current at around 109 and 99 for acc

Edited by nosmos
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We do have a talent that provides flat damage reduction, another talent that has flat endurance buff, and a talent that gives us 3% crit chance (via lightning charge and charge mastery).

 

I haven't bothered comparing it to other classes because I only ever play assassin, so I'm not arguing for or against the OP. I'm just saying it's there :p

 

Oh and P.S. it's not a big deal dropping some accuracy on your gear. While 3 of our 5 damage dealers are white damage, one (maul) can miss and still retain the buff. So you just lose a global and not the attack. With discharge and shock both being force, I feel safe in the idea that I can run 90% accuracy and miss the occasional voltaic slash or assassinate. Missing VS is not a big deal and while missing an assassinate will suck, I feel the increased damage on our other 4 skills would probably make up for it.

 

Feel free to run some numbers on it though and find out for certain, I'd be interested in determining our ideal accuracy. I feel we'd end up being best with 90%, but it would probably require a calculus equation that I haven't done in years.

 

I can tell you that even though you dont feel you need acc. its well worth it because missing 1-2 mauls in 30 seconds is alot of damage and same goes for assassinate, when i am tank specced i run with absolutly no extra acc, so 0nly 90% on melee and i miss all the time on bosses with both assasssinate and trash.

 

I would never go below 95% acc as you will just miss to many hits on raid bosses, and you cant really parse that on dummy as you cant really miss on those from what i understand. But consider this you get 10 mauls in a fight, 2-3 misses, 4 is non crit then you will have 2-3 that crit, that is an insane amount of lost damage.

 

And this is where our lack of base skill boxes come in operative can get 9% extra cunning for 3 points, juggernauts can get 6% more str. for 2 points powertech can increase aim by 9%, hell even sorc can raise both force crit and willpower with 9% and 6% we are the only class i can think of who cant increase our base stats.

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Yeah, I have 6 50's and I've played them all. My sorc was my main for the longest time, around June I got bored of healing the same op over and over (Ec) so i switched to my marauder as my main. I went inactive for a bit, came back and started using my assassin again which has been my main since then. I always liked my assassin the best (And jug dps).

 

Every other class has at least 2 talents to increase something, be it mainstat, crit or accuracy. Not including things in the stance itself, as well as combo's that give an auto crit hit. Every single class generally share these talents with their mirror class - which is why i find the assassin so odd. Our mirror class has mainstat and crit, where the hell is ours? Why does Lightning charge get a boost in crit chance through talents and deception does not? Why does surging charge not give us increased accuracy or crit (so we can drop mods like every other class and pickup more power)

 

I use my assassin as my main, i raid in pve and do fine. But this is frustrating, very very frustrating.

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