LoL-K-Noob Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Do you have to click and activate it, or is it always active? On Hit: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 199 additional elemental damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects. On hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Why go with elemental relic when we do mostly kinetic/internal damage? Because the developers put relics in the game without explaining their mechanics. Some very goddam important details you need to know are: 1) The procs use your Crit Multiplier 2) The procs use your Crit Rating... but... The hilariously not released information is that: Kinetic & Internal use Tech Crit % (troopers and scoundrels) Energy & Elemental use Force Crit % (consulars and knights) Came to the conclusion in a thread on the commandos forum where kinetic would use our tech crit rate but elemental would crit for way waaaay less, 15% less on massive parses. The reason? It's using the force crit rate which is much lower on a commando since ofc aim doesn't give anything to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) I really wish we were allowed to transfer, if only for a day, because I cannot parse high on a trans-atlantic connection. It seems fine in PvP and raids, with the enemies taking what seems to be the correct amount of damage, but on the dummies it's just a complete failure with lag and packet losses. I actually parse higher on some of the bosses than I do the dummies (and no, I am not refering to the bosses with a huge debuff such as the droid in KP). That said, 1900 strikes me as really high, even with debuff. I'm not questioning it, just saying that it's high. How much effect does the armor debuff have by the way? Have the theorycrafters come up with a percentage? Edited December 2, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) I really wish we were allowed to transfer, if only for a day, because I cannot parse high on a trans-atlantic connection. It seems fine in PvP and raids, with the enemies taking what seems to be the correct amount of damage, but on the dummies it's just a complete failure with lag and packet losses. I actually parse higher on some of the bosses than I do the dummies (and no, I am not refering to the bosses with a huge debuff such as the droid in KP). That said, 1900 strikes me as really high, even with debuff. I'm not questioning it, just saying that it's high. How much effect does the armor debuff have by the way? Have the theorycrafters come up with a percentage? Best to go at late night with under 80 people on fleet or buy the ship trainning dummy. All my parses I average 1825 without armor debuff Edited December 2, 2012 by LoL-K-Noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Best to go at late night with under 80 people on fleet or buy the ship trainning dummy. All my parses I average 1825 without armor debuffI even bought the ship dummy in an attempt to get rid of packet losses/lag/latency/every other netcode issue. Still not working properly. I can tell that something is up is by looking at the FiB's. I can see several high FiB's while fighting the dummy but when I'm looking at the log they're not there. Tele throw is another problem, it's sometimes not resulting in damage pop-ups when fighting the dummy. Not sure if they still parse when that happens. Dots seems really sporadic too. Edited December 4, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I even bought the ship dummy in an attempt to get rid of packet losses/lag/latency/every other netcode issue. Still not working properly. IThe way is know that something is up is by looking at the FiB's. I can see several high FiB's while fighting the dummy but when I'm looking at the log they're not there. Tele throw is another problem, it's sometimes not resulting in damage pop-ups when fighting the dummy. Not sure if they still parse when that happens. Dots seems really sporadic too. What program are you using to Parse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) What program are you using to Parse?I've tried a couple of different ones, including the ones where you upload your log, and the logs are the same regardless of what program I am using ( as in specific logs will net the same results everywhere). Edited December 4, 2012 by MidichIorian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I've tried a couple of different ones, including the ones where you upload your log, and the logs are the same regardless of what program I am using ( as in specific logs will net the same results everywhere). What are you parsing? I am parsing between 1650-1700 using the rotations mentioned above. I have the elemental proc relic, WH power relic, and all campaign gear (couple of 63 pieces) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 What are you parsing? I am parsing between 1650-1700 using the rotations mentioned above. I have the elemental proc relic, WH power relic, and all campaign gear (couple of 63 pieces) What are your stats (bonus damage, crit, multiplier) stimmed and buffed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Dreselus Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Just out of curiosity have you tried this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZfcM0bZsMbRsrkrc.2I did a quick parse of it (in healer gear) and it did about 150 DPS more, just wondering what you could do with it.Rotation is pretty much the same just no Sever Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truescopes Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Just out of curiosity have you tried this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZfcM0bZsMbRsrkrc.2 I did a quick parse of it (in healer gear) and it did about 150 DPS more, just wondering what you could do with it. Rotation is pretty much the same just no Sever Force. That spec is lower dps than full balance. You should also be taking upheaval over Jedi resistance/ mind ward. Edited December 8, 2012 by Truescopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Dreselus Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) That spec is lower dps than full balance. You should also be taking upheaval over Jedi resistance/ mind ward. Not when you don't use Project (which I do but the parse doesn't). I just want to see what the OP would do with it it doesn't really matter if it is Upheaval/Resistance/Pinning Resolve/Containment/Focused Insight/Mind Ward. None of those have anything to do with the parse. I just put points around to reach Mental Scarring. Edited December 8, 2012 by Darth_Dreselus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truescopes Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not when you don't use Project (which I do but the parse doesn't). You have more spare force when using that spec than the other which allows you to cast moves like project more often, which is the reason why I still play it when I end up dpsing since it's my offspec. I usually try and work it in at moment where I don't want to clip a dot but telekentic throw would be too long of a cast time. I get just above 1,850 without armour penetration using it like that with that spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobrogaming Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Just out of curiosity have you tried this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZfcM0bZsMbRsrkrc.2 I did a quick parse of it (in healer gear) and it did about 150 DPS more, just wondering what you could do with it. Rotation is pretty much the same just no Sever Force. Yes I have. I average 1820 with full balance. The hybrid I average 1780. I pulled 1832 with the hybrid but I think that was just lucky with many crits. Edited December 8, 2012 by hobrogaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobrogaming Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) You have more spare force when using that spec than the other which allows you to cast moves like project more often, which is the reason why I still play it when I end up dpsing since it's my offspec. I usually try and work it in at moment where I don't want to clip a dot but telekentic throw would be too long of a cast time. I get just above 1,850 without armour penetration using it like that with that spec. Thats probably why im not parsing as high, didnt know you were suppsoe to work a project in. Will have to try, I hate the force issues with full balance. Edited December 8, 2012 by hobrogaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theRaiders Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 What are your stats (bonus damage, crit, multiplier) stimmed and buffed? Roughly my bonus damage is like 1005 - Crit Chance @ 35% and Multiplier @ 77% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Just out of curiosity have you tried this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#600oZfcM0bZsMbRsrkrc.2 I did a quick parse of it (in healer gear) and it did about 150 DPS more, just wondering what you could do with it. Rotation is pretty much the same just no Sever Force. I have gave it a shot last night and my parses run 1800-1840 with it and got lucky a couple of times hitting 1876 and 1896 all with NO armor debuff. I tried two different methods: Using project when a DoT or FiB is about to wear off in 1 second and NOT using project but canceling Telekinetic throw when a DoT wears off or FiB is available except when I get the proc for a fast telekinetic Throw. Now with Full Balance I ran three parse in a row hitting 1848, pretty much zero variation unlike the hybrid but didnt get a ridiculous number like 1876 and 1896. I think The proc hit very often to give me a quick TK throw which resulted in those high parses for hybrid. So I concluded Hybrid is great for force management and can hit way higher than full balance if the procs come often, but not a stable dps and can do way less then the guaranteed damage like full balance. Then again I may be using project wrong Im still not sure if you are suppsoe to use it or not in Hybrid spec Edited December 13, 2012 by LoL-K-Noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) I have gave it a shot last night and my parses run 1800-1840 with it and got lucky a couple of times hitting 1876 and 1896 all with NO armor debuff. I tried two different methods: Using project when a DoT or FiB is about to wear off in 1 second and NOT using project but canceling Telekinetic throw when a DoT wears off or FiB is available except when I get the proc for a fast telekinetic Throw. Now with Full Balance I ran three parse in a row hitting 1848, pretty much zero variation unlike the hybrid but didnt get a ridiculous number like 1876 and 1896. I think The proc hit very often to give me a quick TK throw which resulted in those high parses for hybrid. So I concluded Hybrid is great for force management and can hit way higher than full balance if the procs come often, but not a stable dps and can do way less then the guaranteed damage like full balance. Then again I may be using project wrong Im still not sure if you are suppsoe to use it or not in Hybrid spec I'm not an expert in this (read: I cannot yet reach your level of dps ) but the folks at mmo-mechanics spent some time working out sage/sorcerer dps rotations: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-947.html Hybrid is discussed about halfway down the page. Their suggested rotation mentions that Shock (Project) is inefficient DpE wise but is useful when you need to be mobile. Also their hybrid build includes two points in Chain Shock (Upheaval) which would increase the average dps of Project over time. Edited December 13, 2012 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMuse Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have gave it a shot last night and my parses run 1800-1840 with it and got lucky a couple of times hitting 1876 and 1896 all with NO armor debuff. I tried two different methods: Using project when a DoT or FiB is about to wear off in 1 second and NOT using project but canceling Telekinetic throw when a DoT wears off or FiB is available except when I get the proc for a fast telekinetic Throw. Now with Full Balance I ran three parse in a row hitting 1848, pretty much zero variation unlike the hybrid but didnt get a ridiculous number like 1876 and 1896. I think The proc hit very often to give me a quick TK throw which resulted in those high parses for hybrid. So I concluded Hybrid is great for force management and can hit way higher than full balance if the procs come often, but not a stable dps and can do way less then the guaranteed damage like full balance. Then again I may be using project wrong Im still not sure if you are suppsoe to use it or not in Hybrid spec To optimize the hybrid spec you'll want more critical rating than the other specs as you're down 2% from the tree and you're reliant on Weaken Mind crit procs to get the 50% reduced cast. As of that I was just wondering, whats your gear getting those numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 To optimize the hybrid spec you'll want more critical rating than the other specs as you're down 2% from the tree and you're reliant on Weaken Mind crit procs to get the 50% reduced cast. As of that I was just wondering, whats your gear getting those numbers? With Rakata Stim and buffs: Bonus Damage: 1027.2 Crit: 36% Surge: 75% Power: 895 Crit Rating: 208 Alacrity: 285 Surge: 285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlamela Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm not an expert in this (read: I cannot yet reach your level of dps ) but the folks at mmo-mechanics spent some time working out sage/sorcerer dps rotations: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-947.html Hybrid is discussed about halfway down the page. Their suggested rotation mentions that Shock (Project) is inefficient DpE wise but is useful when you need to be mobile. Also their hybrid build includes two points in Chain Shock (Upheaval) which would increase the average dps of Project over time. I dont see how project isnt worth using. Granted all i do is pvp and I dont hit dummies cause dummies no hit back. But my project crits for 2.8 - 3k plus another 1.4 - 1.5k when it procs a 2nd rock. I run many different full Balance specs and I find Project to be very useful. Jenna'syyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I dont see how project isnt worth using. Granted all i do is pvp and I dont hit dummies cause dummies no hit back. But my project crits for 2.8 - 3k plus another 1.4 - 1.5k when it procs a 2nd rock. I run many different full Balance specs and I find Project to be very useful. Jenna'syyde I'd recommend reading the post I linked. It didn't say not to use Project, it's just low on the priority list. It has an excellent explanation for why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truescopes Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) I'm not an expert in this (read: I cannot yet reach your level of dps ) but the folks at mmo-mechanics spent some time working out sage/sorcerer dps rotations: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-947.html Hybrid is discussed about halfway down the page. Their suggested rotation mentions that Shock (Project) is inefficient DpE wise but is useful when you need to be mobile. Also their hybrid build includes two points in Chain Shock (Upheaval) which would increase the average dps of Project over time. Yes, ofcourse it is inefficient DPE wise, but the thing about the hybrid spec is it costs very little force to use. So throwing in those extra 10 or so projects in a 5 minute fight really don't effect force too much. Edited December 14, 2012 by Truescopes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMuse Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I dont see how project isnt worth using. Granted all i do is pvp and I dont hit dummies cause dummies no hit back. But my project crits for 2.8 - 3k plus another 1.4 - 1.5k when it procs a 2nd rock. I run many different full Balance specs and I find Project to be very useful. Jenna'syyde It cost to much force to be useble in PvE long term. In PvP there is brief moment you're out of combat and have higher energy regeneration and therefore can use more draining abilities, in PvE you'll need to constantly manage force. The use for project in PvE I think is more as a filler when you don't want to cast TK Throw but can't apply dots or FiB yet and is very good as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuZZieCxC Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Because the developers put relics in the game without explaining their mechanics. Some very goddam important details you need to know are: 1) The procs use your Crit Multiplier 2) The procs use your Crit Rating... but... The hilariously not released information is that: Kinetic & Internal use Tech Crit % (troopers and scoundrels) Energy & Elemental use Force Crit % (consulars and knights) Came to the conclusion in a thread on the commandos forum where kinetic would use our tech crit rate but elemental would crit for way waaaay less, 15% less on massive parses. The reason? It's using the force crit rate which is much lower on a commando since ofc aim doesn't give anything to it. Wish i was told that BEFORE i bought the damn internal Relic, What wasted 300 daily comms... Having seen this thread ive now respec to balance having been doing telekinetic with lousy dps. Although i have Cleared first two bosses in TFB HM with the TK spec. Currently on 3/7/31 Full balance Spec 1034.1 Bonus Damage 35.49% Crit Chance with rating of 205 77.42 Surge Rating of 345 7.35 alacrity rating of 228 Thats With all buffs and rakata stim How goes this comparison with your stats. Should i drop anything or increase anything too? Edited December 17, 2012 by AuZZieCxC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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