The real problem is you can't give away gear based on rank only because you've done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to remove valor farming from the game.

 

If people couldn't just farm for their ranks via collusion and zerging every day you could just award fixed pieces at specific ranks. It'd be 100% fair and predictable and there'd be no reason to complain.

 

Instead you're forced to make people run warzones for their bags in order to get gear.

 

In my opinion the whole system is backwards and rewards have become more important than gameplay and it's a sad sad state of affairs to be in if the sustained success of the game is a goal.

 

"Bonus valor" > the kill amount.

ALL players who tag a kill getting 100% of the reward.

Clickie objectives = a kill found in ONE location on the map.

7-10 people quitting a warzone on one side over and over and over.

Majority of queues during primetime dropping players into losing warzones.

Lopsided populations, lopsided ranks, lopsided gear.

Virtually no reward for sticking out a losing warzone.

NO punishment for AFKing or quitting, repeatedly.

 

What's the mission statement of PvP in this game?

 

"We'd like everyone to zerg or be zerged and metagame non-stop for their gear rewards until they hit max gear then move on to another game."

 

It seems that way to me.

I appreciate the above, I enjoy the hell out of this game's PvP, but the systems designed around/supporting PvP seem pretty terribly thought out. Worse yet its been long enough now that future fixes just build on an already damaged system. Of course things are fixable, but really at the moment the way valor is handled seems something of a joke. Worse yet it seems best not to say anything about it and to just join a farming crew to pump your valor since nothing is going to be done after the fact to make ranks mean much.

 

 

Pretty sad that the community has to give Devs ideas on how to create and manage their own game. It's a sad sad time to be a Bioware developer - you should be ashamed - I know I am ashamed for you.

O.o so ignoring feedback on the forums is bad, but using feedback from the forums is bad too?

Some people will continue to complain no matter what the changes are.

 

Centurian gear will be acquired much more quickly by new 50s giving them much needed expertise. This gear can be re-modded with higher level mods acquired from pve. I reached rank 60 a couple of days ago and still had several pieces of cent gear that I re-modded. Re-modded cent gear is almost equivalent to champ gear.

 

If you're one of those people that say "I only pvp, screw pve" then by the time you hit 50 you'll probably be close to valor rank 50 if not above and you'll be rank 60 in a couple of weeks or less.

 

What this will eliminate is the lotto winners that open their first 20 champion bags and have full champ set as well as people with Battlemaster title still missing several champ items.

 

I know several people that have been Battlemaster for a while and still only have 1 piece of Battlemaster gear (excluding the earpiece and implants that you can buy) because of the limited quantity of BM bags you can acquire and the low probability of them containing tokens.

This change will ensure that everyone > rank 60 will be able to quickly acquire champ set while slowly acquiring their BM set, while everyone < rank 60 will quickly get centurian gear with a small chance at getting a champ item.

 

They're basically making the reward for grinding to Battlemaster much more tangible as you'll be able to quickly acquire better gear while slowly acquiring the best pvp gear.

I'm unsure if Bioware even plays this game sometimes.

 

I mean, I know they say they do... but they make this sound like a buff.

 

Really? The issue wasnt the cent coms from champ bags or the champ coms from BM bags.. both are equally useless. The issue is the item tokens not dropping.

This is obviously meant to be a long-term fix to the overall system---bypassing Tier 1 PVP gear and going straight to Tier 2 IS a problem. The number of current 50s in full champ/BM gear is relatively small, so by fixing this now they adjust the path of progression for the overall population of current and (the much, much larger population) of future lvl 50 PVPers. It's a smart move, but it's damage control.

 

Listen, as people level new characters, start over on new servers, leave the game and so forth, the small number of full BM powerhouses will equalize between old school BMs and newer players. This isn't an issue.

 

I'm excited for this change. This means that instead of hoping for RNG Tier 2 gear, I'm getting guaranteed Tier 1 with the occasional Tier 2 surprise. I support this.

Edited February 2, 2012 by RolyartNala

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Seriously?? This is just mind blowing to see this response. Its like talking to someone who is dead set on a subject(despite mounting evidence that they are wrong), then you give them many great reasons why their idea is crap, so they come back with this twisted version of what you said as their new justification.

 

Yes people wanted less RNG.......on the champion gear!! Noone has ever cared about the horribly itemized centurian gear. The new change just makes it easier to gear our companions. You now have a tier of gear, that will be even harder to get than it was now, until you reach battlemaster, at which point the next tier opens up....WHAT? That makes zero sense.

 

Why is it so hard to comprehend the idea of 3 speperate tiers based on your valor rating, 1-40 you can get centurian bags, 50+ you can get champ bags, 60+ you get BM bags? Each one has appropriate commendations. If you want to put RNG into that system than im fine with it. But grinding all the way to BM, without a reliable way to get champion gear, is so *** backwards. This is of course only a problem because of the poor secondary stats on the centurian gear.

Sorry georgey, that is not exactly what we asked for. What we asked for was a more predictable way to get champ geared prior to valor 60, what you are delivering instead, is a way to get cent geared (useless when others already have full champ or BM) more quickly, and lowering the chance to get champ geared.

 

I don't think you failed to understand what we asked for, I think you are playing devils advocate.

I am amused by all of this.

The issue is it would have needed to be this way since the start - I personally will benefit from this as by the time it is rolled out I will be Battlemaster - So I was able to get a higher chance at champ gear and then soon after I hit BM I will get more champ tokens yet the same BM tokens I would have gotten anyways - but for new 50s this will make the grind to BM even more painful

 

 

O.o so ignoring feedback on the forums is bad, but using feedback from the forums is bad too?

 

Have they actually been listening? If they were paying attention to details and realized their current system is flawed why would they make the major complaint even worse?

 

These guys are supposed to be professional game developers for a MMO. Games is all they should know but it appears as if it's the last thing they know. Has EA moved from just using Argentinas for QA and using them for Devs as well? The signs all seem to point in that direction since these guys don't seem to have a clue about what gamers want or what makes PVP fun.

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

So are Champion bags going to contain Champion Commendations and Battlemaster going to contain Battlemaster Commendations now? If not, then your removing of the RNG element only screwed everybody over more than they already were. We'll take the RNG back, thanks.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tierce

O.o so ignoring feedback on the forums is bad, but using feedback from the forums is bad too?

 

Giving feed back is one thing, actually have to spell out "wait.. if you were worried about people grinding the first bosses for boots and then removing the mods for other items, why didn't you just make the mods BOP and only slottable in other boot items instead of this dumb system you've given us" or "Champion bags should drop Champion tokens, making use wait until we can wear Battlemaster before we can even open the bags for the tokens is stupid when we have no way of getting Champion pieces other than a random system that you've now reduced the odds on" is another thing.

 

Anyone not in Champion gear is now pretty bonned, it really shouldn't take 50 odd forum pages for anyone that even thinks about the problem to see that.

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Wai- wha? Do you think we're stupid? The bags now "only" give Centurion gear! There's a huge gear gap between Centurion, Champion and Battlemaster.

So now the people in full BM or Champion gear will get to steamroll us even more, even longer?

No-one wants your Centurion gear.

 

There's no way you could've misunderstood us. Are you making fun of us? You're doing this in spite, right? Aren't you?

Edited February 2, 2012 by MrOuija

The biggest issue with this change is it makes things even harder on new lvl 50's.

 

At this point the bags need to be changed. Someone else pretty much suggested the same thing, but what we need are 3 bag types. Centurion, Champion, & Battlemaster. Each should have commendation/chance at gear for that level. Also, the quests need to give the appropriate bag depending on your valor rank. Have the gear have a lvl 50 requirement to equip. But depending on valor rank allow a player to accumulate gear.

 

I would suggest valor rank 1 to 34 Centurion, rank 35 to 59 Champion, 60 & up Battlemaster. This should allow a new level 50 entering the 50 brackets to have several Centurion pieces as well as possibly some Champion pieces.

 

This would give a more even starting point at level 50. Make things more enjoyable.

I am amused by all of this.

 

I think it is now becoming clear that their understanding of PvP is hit and miss.

 

I honestly don't hold much fate for PvP in this game, I was just really hoping they would LISTEN to their player base and implement changes that WE wanted.

 

I just think they are out of touch, and frankly, don't really care.

 

The model has changed Bioware...I think you can easily see on these forums that PvP is a priority in MMOs now....this is not 2007, where PvE was king.

 

If you don't listen to your players...your players will leave at the drop of GW2 or even the WoW expansion.

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Georg, I don't believe there's any confusion here. You were pretty clear, I think.

 

* You get more commendations per bag opening.

* You get less chance of having a purple item drop.

 

But Georg, here's this issue: I'm only Valor Rank 34 and already, Centurion gear isn't going to be an upgrade much longer. I'm very well geared for my valor because I didn't PvP at all from 1-49 as I didn't want to outlevel the story content. Only started at 50.

 

Here's the deal: Very soon, commendations will do *nothing* for me. I have only 2 more pieces of gear to replace and plan to have 1 of them tomorrow. What I need is Champion stuff + more Valor. And when I hit 60, at this rate, Champion commendations will probably do nothing for me. I will need Battlemaster drops.

 

I understand PvP isn't your specific department, so maybe you don't know this, but as it is: Champion bags only drop Centurion Commendations. Battlemaster bags only drop Champion Commendations.

 

All this patch is doing is making it take MORE RNG for me to get upgrades to my current set. If there's confusion on the issue, I think it has to be in your ranks. Give Gabe another slap in the cheek for bad communication.

Edited February 2, 2012 by McVade

I think it is now becoming clear that their understanding of PvP is hit and miss.

 

Ever clear.

Ever clear.

 

Crystal Clear

How hard is this...

 

Have centurion gear bags that give cent tokens and is bassicly the first tier of pvp gear you can get..

 

Then have champion bags which you can open at valor rank 40 (or something like that) that gives champ tokens.

 

And have battlemaster bags that give bm tokens at valor rank 60....

 

No rng, so no bull******** around you know exactly what you can get and even know when your able to get something.

 

Instead now by the time people can start saving for champ gear they need to be valor rank 60..... *** man i am a BM and have some BM pieces and rest champ but for new alts or for new players they are stuck with their cent gear until valor 60 with maybe champ piece here or there but its still RNG... Dont drasticly decrease the RNG....>>> REMOVE IT <<<

 

And getting to valor 60 aint a easy task and i can understand that not everybody wants to put that much time into it and yeah it should probably be reserved for those that spend that much time into the game. But the champ gear should be there for anyone that casually does pvp.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Garton

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Could you clarify? Can we use those tokens to buy Champion gear?

 

If so, then it's possibly a good thing. If not, then it's a very bad thing.

 

On my main, there's no Centurion gear I want. It's chump gear compared to what you can buy on GalaTrade. Champion gear is at least comparable to buyable gear for PVE, and it's better for PVP.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Yozbick

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

I don't think this is what we asked for. Yes this change eliminates the random factor but to what end? Everyone who gets to 50 from now on is stuck with centurion gear until rank 60 with a small chance of champion items which if their luck is as good as mine it will probably mean multiple tokens for the same item.

 

What about all those that have used the the pre 1.1.2 bags and have full champ gear? How a new lvl 50 competes with them with the huge difference there is between armor sets atm? Centurion gear is sub par to even crafted gear and only expertise is worth it.

 

The most reasonable way to go about it, it would be to have centurion bags for ranks 40-50, champion bags for 50-60 and battlemaster bags for 60+, each with the respective commendations in it and very small chance of an actual piece.

 

Since the current system is around for some time now and I imagine the QQ if suddenly people couldnt use their armor, champion bags should contain a small number of champion commendations along with a higher number of centurion commendations.

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Georg

 

The problem with the system is twofold, the first is that the names don't makes sense. Why does one get Centurion gear from Champion bags and Champion gear from Battlemaster bags. The way this is set up and the reason there is so much anger about it is psychological. If you see 'Centurion Commendation x3' in a Champion bag or 'Champion Commendation x3' from a Battlemaster bag, what that is saying to at least some of our deeper competitive instincts, which pvp brings to the front anyway, is 'you lost, here is your consolation prize'

 

The other problem, for me, is the bags themselves being the only way to acquire the gear. Right now there are 3 ways of getting Champion Bags and 2 ways of getting Battlemaster bags. Now, I can't do Ilum dailies on my computer until the lag issues there are fixed, so that is one source of bags out. Also, the time I can generally play this game my faction almost never gets wins in Warzones and, compounded with the STILL unfixed 'wins not counting' bug, is basically another source of bags I have no access to, leaving only getting Champion bags but needing 800 Warzones commendations to get, which takes me about 1-2 days of straight pvping to get.

 

Now, I'm not saying that I want to get gear quickly, and honestly if I never get Battlemaster gear I'm cool with that, I enjoy pvp a lot but I've never been particular hardcore with it. What I would like is a system in which i CAN get gear at a reasonable rate, which for me at the moment is completely impossible. The whole bag system basically feels like a giant screw you to anyone, like myself, whose computer can't do Ilum(despite being well within your minimum specifications and having every setting set to minimum) and who can't get wins.

From lvl 40 to 50 players could get centurion gear to prepare for lvl 50 bracket.

At lvl 50 players get champion bags with champion commendations.

At lvl 60 players get battlemaster bags with battlemaster commendations.

 

Lets say each bag what ever gear have 15 commendations. See easy...

Uh, Centurion gear is better than blues. And the way PVP items are designed, you're supposed to sacrifice other stats for expertise. PVP gear is not intended to be good for pve.

 

I don't know how you can't understand this. Also, it makes sense that t2 pve gear would be better than t1 pvp gear.

 

Centurion gear is not better than blues in many cases. Here is a case in point:

 

Centurion Stalker's Implant

64 endurance

56 willpower

39 expertise

40 accuracy (why does all pvp gear have accuracy on it anyway?)

40 critical rating

 

Entropic Awareness D-Motivator (level 50 blue item, was a quest reward I think)

58 endurance

72 willpower

34 accuracy

29 crit

 

So if I take the Centurion implant, I lose 16 points of willpower that effects my melee damage and crit on my assassin as well as my force damage and crit. I gain 60 hit points, 39 expertise and 11 crit. So is that an upgrade? Without knowing all the forumlae behind the game, it's very hard to say. I certainly don't think so and if is, it is a very, very modest one.

 

Ok, here's my other non-pvp item I haven't replaced. What I'm wearing now is a tank belt because that's how I leveled up but I'm now dps specced. In the interest of fairness, I'll compare it to the Cent tank belt:

 

Primeval Exemplar's Waistwrap (level 50 blue, again a quest reward I believe)

237 armor

60 endurance

52 willpower

18 absorption rating

 

Centurion Survivor's Waistwrap

257 armor

55 endurance

48 willpower

39 expertise

22 absorption

 

Again, this is not a clear upgrade and you actually lose health by wearing the pvp item which is silly for pvp gear. Keep in mind, these are blue items I am comparing to EPIC items and they are roughly the same. I don't care what anyone says, a level 50 epic pvp item should be an obvious upgrade over a level 50 blue quest reward.

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

so the only way to get champion gear reliably will now be after you get to battlemaster rank?

Let me just point this out, since there's confusion about it.

 

The 1.1.2. bag changes have reduced the RNG element on drops DRAMATICALLY. Exactly what you guys asked for.

 

Instead of hoping to get specific item tokens, you now get (more) commendations that you can turn into an item of your choice. That is a lot more deterministic and reliable than opening bags and hoping for a token.

 

-- Georg

 

Each patch I am more and more convinced that Bioware has no idea what they are doing.