I respect your opinion, but this example isn't the best - seeings as Japan did not have force users

 

If anything it works the other way. Japan is stronger than the USA (I don't know if thats fact but I'll take your word for it) much like the GE is statistically stronger than the SE. However the USA had nuclear bombs, which they dropped on Nagazaki and Hiroshima (which was disgusting by the way, just saying) and ended the war. These nuclear bombs represent the Force and its tremendous power. So the force users of the SE are going to be like dropping bombs on Japan. But thats just how I see it.

 

Actually, Japan had already lost the war on grand scale when the nuclear bombs were dropped. At that point of the war it was only a question about how to end the war: atom bomb them to surrender, starve them with a sea blockade or invade the Japanese main island.

 

I agree with internaty that the Galactic Empire's industrial capacity will be a huge advantage. If the SE should win the war, it has to win it fast. In a war of attrition, the GE will inevitably gain the upper hand.

 

 

I don't understand why we can't just take the map for what it is: the SE controled 7/11 (or 63.6 percent) of the galaxy.

 

It doesn't seem like it controlled every planet of these 63.6%. You see in Tor that there are a lot of independent planets in between. All in all, I get the impression that after the treaty of Coruscant when it comes to direct control the Republic controls around 25% and the Empire 20% of the galaxy (during the war it was probably the other way round). Rest are allies, independent worlds, other superpowers etc.

But having more planets won't win the war, it really depends on which planets you got.

It doesn't seem like it controlled every planet of these 63.6%. You see in Tor that there are a lot of independent planets in between. All in all, I get the impression that after the treaty of Coruscant when it comes to direct control the Republic controls around 25% and the Empire 20% of the galaxy (during the war it was probably the other way round). Rest are allies, independent worlds, other superpowers etc.

But having more planets won't win the war, it really depends on which planets you got.

I highly doubt that. A huge proportion of the galaxy was under Republic control before the Great War - few had reason not to be. The Hutt Cartels were the only real power, and a small few were independent. They had little influence in the Outer Rim Territories but after the Great War began the Sith Empire conquered many of the world in this sector, including ones previously neutral. And most other neutral planets were snapped up in the Cold War.

 

So I reckon at the point of that map. The Republic control 40% of the galaxy, the Empire 60% and the remaining 3% - which is about 2 million systems. (this is based on the number of systems that qualify for imperial representation - concerning habitable planets the number around 96 million - 3% of the galaxy is alot)

I respect your opinion, but this example isn't the best - seeings as Japan did not have force users

 

If anything it works the other way. Japan is stronger than the USA (I don't know if thats fact but I'll take your word for it) much like the GE is statistically stronger than the SE. However the USA had nuclear bombs, which they dropped on Nagazaki and Hiroshima (which was disgusting by the way, just saying) and ended the war. These nuclear bombs represent the Force and its tremendous power. So the force users of the SE are going to be like dropping bombs on Japan. But thats just how I see it.

 

First of was not is stronger(check ww2 docementries)

 

Second you missing the point.

A: the amarican's wanted to force a surrender.

A ground war in japan would have bin a million times worse.

 

B: while the force makes nuke's seem tiny and insignificant you need to keep in mind that nuke's have different power level's likewise so do sith.

For example: lord scourge is one deadly s.o.b(son of a *****) he wasnt remotely as powerfull as revan, the exile, or the emperor.

 

But he was a sith as sith could get.

 

So having a nice army of backstabbing sith at your command might help.

But there are a few thing's about sith you are happy to ignore:

1: They got cronic backstabbing disorder. A sith cant ignore a chance for power any more then a drug addict can resist the lure of free drug's.

2: even if all sith remain loyal(and that is a very optimistic outcome to say the least)

There are still perhaps a few hunder meaby just over a thousent sith in the galaxie.

Compair that to trillions and i mean trillions of expendibol troop's.

All it take's is one lucky hit and you just lost one of your pressue's sith.

Where if you slaught the entire population of corosant you woudnt even make a dent in the galatic empire's numbers.

 

3: training.

If you played a sith you know how difficult it is for a sith to survive training(unless you wear plot armor)

First of not all sith are like darth nox or the emperor's wraith.

Most rate just barely above commando.

 

In fact many sith lords have sith as there servan's(slave's)

 

Where the galatic empire can replace there losses(clone's troops massive factories multiple planets, loyalist)

If you played star wars empire at war/force's of corruption you get a idea how much you need to conquer.

Even with milleneu worth of preperating the sith empire couldnt conquer what it wanted.

Instead they relied on the threaty of corosant and more importantly all those worlds hate the sith.

 

Lets take the galatic empire:

Sure there was a rebelion but most people just live there live's working and serving the empire.

Now think of this: having the manpower to build and man thing's like the sdd and death star?

Just to build and man it you requir thousent's of troops.

 

It might be hard to believe but during world war 2 allies losses(including amarica's) where far far higher then axis losses.

 

That is why i believe that the galatic empire will win.

Not because it is stronger (wich it is but i wont argue) but because it simple can outlast the sith empire man for man planet for planat ship for ship.

 

Let me put it into perspective.

Lets say your sith(ingame) is getting attacked by a endless wave of weak troopers.

How many can you kill befor your to tired to fight?

A 100? a 1000. tillions? even if you never tired eventualy you will fall to the sheer numbers.(bordem and irirtating)

And keep in mind that sith players are far stronger then there npc counter part.

 

All in all even if the sith empire would be stronger then the galatic empire in every possibol way, they simple cant keep up with the numbers.

 

After all 8 planets can create more star ships in a month then 4.

And the number's simply add up.

 

EDIT: i read somewhere stalin said: quantity is a quality of its own.

Edited December 20, 2012 by internaty

First of was not is stronger(check ww2 docementries)

 

Second you missing the point.

A: the amarican's wanted to force a surrender.

A ground war in japan would have bin a million times worse.

 

B: while the force makes nuke's seem tiny and insignificant you need to keep in mind that nuke's have different power level's likewise so do sith.

For example: lord scourge is one deadly s.o.b(son of a *****) he wasnt remotely as powerfull as revan, the exile, or the emperor.

 

But he was a sith as sith could get.

 

So having a nice army of backstabbing sith at your command might help.

But there are a few thing's about sith you are happy to ignore:

1: They got cronic backstabbing disorder. A sith cant ignore a chance for power any more then a drug addict can resist the lure of free drug's.

2: even if all sith remain loyal(and that is a very optimistic outcome to say the least)

There are still perhaps a few hunder meaby just over a thousent sith in the galaxie.

Compair that to trillions and i mean trillions of expendibol troop's.

All it take's is one lucky hit and you just lost one of your pressue's sith.

Where if you slaught the entire population of corosant you woudnt even make a dent in the galatic empire's numbers.

 

3: training.

If you played a sith you know how difficult it is for a sith to survive training(unless you wear plot armor)

First of not all sith are like darth nox or the emperor's wraith.

Most rate just barely above commando.

 

In fact many sith lords have sith as there servan's(slave's)

 

Where the galatic empire can replace there losses(clone's troops massive factories multiple planets, loyalist)

If you played star wars empire at war/force's of corruption you get a idea how much you need to conquer.

Even with milleneu worth of preperating the sith empire couldnt conquer what it wanted.

Instead they relied on the threaty of corosant and more importantly all those worlds hate the sith.

 

Lets take the galatic empire:

Sure there was a rebelion but most people just live there live's working and serving the empire.

Now think of this: having the manpower to build and man thing's like the sdd and death star?

Just to build and man it you requir thousent's of troops.

 

It might be hard to believe but during world war 2 allies losses(including amarica's) where far far higher then axis losses.

 

That is why i believe that the galatic empire will win.

Not because it is stronger (wich it is but i wont argue) but because it simple can outlast the sith empire man for man planet for planat ship for ship.

 

Let me put it into perspective.

Lets say your sith(ingame) is getting attacked by a endless wave of weak troopers.

How many can you kill befor your to tired to fight?

A 100? a 1000. tillions? even if you never tired eventualy you will fall to the sheer numbers.(bordem and irirtating)

And keep in mind that sith players are far stronger then there npc counter part.

 

All in all even if the sith empire would be stronger then the galatic empire in every possibol way, they simple cant keep up with the numbers.

 

After all 8 planets can create more star ships in a month then 4.

And the number's simply add up.

You make a very good point, the GE win a war of attrition. But its whether it will come to that. We have to consider what would happen if the SE went on the full offensive. And instead of waiting for wave after wave, cut through and destroyed the source.

 

What I really wanted to highlight here is that the GE is by no means immune to infighting. As as I combed through the previous posts, totting up points, I noticed a lot of people were mentioning unquestionable loyalty to the Empire - which was not the case. However we also have to consider that in terms of the SE - backstabbing was surprisingly rare. They experienced relative peace for 1000 years, with only two insurrections from the Dark Council, which the Emperor put down with ease. And during the Great Galactic War to my knowledge there was no backstabbing or rebellion. Its only in the Cold War period, when Sith and Imperials alike are becoming restless, many angry over the Treaty of Coruscant, and with the Emperor's recession from the limelight and supposed death, are they beginning to stir trouble. I figure they will be too occupied with war against the GE to descend into betrayals and backstabbing, but it is more than a possibility.

From my point of view the galatic empire would win.

I like to point out to ww2.

 

Japan was by very definition stronger then the usa.

Yet the usa won because of there industeral might.

Even(and i highly doubt it) if the sith empire was able to win every fight agains the galatic empire they would still not be able to replace there losses as quik and the galatice empire could.

 

The only way this could end quikly.

Is via assasintation of either emperor.

 

Like Beni said: Japan didn't have force users. OR a Emperor who can pretty much brainwash anyone (save Sidiious in this Kaggath).

 

But I wouldn't say Japan was stronger then the USA. Like you said, industrial might is a big factor.

 

Also: A Japan to America WW2 analogy doesn't quite sum up the SE vs the GE.

You make a very good point, the GE win a war of attrition. But its whether it will come to that. We have to consider what would happen if the SE went on the full offensive. And instead of waiting for wave after wave, cut through and destroyed the source.

That is the enitre point:

Unless the sith empire can hit several key target's in close succesion and without fail(aka humany impossibol)

Target's like kuat, corosant, the emperor, every last moff, and certian target's forbidden for this topic.

If you miss even one target you will have your war of attrition.

 

You have to sirously cripple the galatic empire befor the war even start's(something the sith emperor is good at) in order to stand a fair chance.

 

Far more likely is that lord videan(i believe the sith emperor's name is) is to simply wait for darth sideus to die of old age of have him assasinted then take over his empire.

 

What I really wanted to highlight here is that the GE is by no means immune to infighting. As as I combed through the previous posts, totting up points, I noticed a lot of people were mentioning unquestionable loyalty to the Empire - which was not the case. However we also have to consider that in terms of the SE - backstabbing was surprisingly rare. They experienced relative peace for 1000 years, with only two insurrections from the Dark Council, which the Emperor put down with ease. And during the Great Galactic War to my knowledge there was no backstabbing or rebellion. Its only in the Cold War period, when Sith and Imperials alike are becoming restless, many angry over the Treaty of Coruscant, and with the Emperor's recession from the limelight and supposed death, are they beginning to stir trouble. I figure they will be too occupied with war against the GE to descend into betrayals and backstabbing, but it is more than a possibility.

True when sith are focus they become deadly.

But how many years of war can a sith endure?

Even the most bloodlust driving sith will after years of slaughter consider to change side just for a break.

Let me put this image into your mind:

You have bin killing enemies for years, you bin into deserts, tropic's forest, underwater fights, you name it you bin there. and everywhere you go it is the same thing. the same enemies, the same planet your going to retake a few month's from now. Your only break's are between fight's and gaurd duty.

 

Now the enemy is offering you a full pardonship of all your crime's against them,

A life in luxery after the war, double your current pay. all for the small price of changing side.

Now it take's a extreemly loyal person to remain loyal to something after suffering for it for many years.

 

It is the reson why so many jedi are easy to turn.

They are offered to go from servant of the people of the republic to lord and master of your own piece of land.

It is easy to be loyal when everything is well and good.

But every war has its traitor's and sith care for power, not bloodshed in general.

Just throwing it out there, but the Ascendant Spear's surprise advance strike on Coruscant wouldn't work, what with the planetary shielding and Golan battlestations and whatnot.

 

Infiltration.

First of was not is stronger(check ww2 docementries)

 

Second you missing the point.

A: the amarican's wanted to force a surrender.

A ground war in japan would have bin a million times worse.

 

B: while the force makes nuke's seem tiny and insignificant you need to keep in mind that nuke's have different power level's likewise so do sith.

For example: lord scourge is one deadly s.o.b(son of a *****) he wasnt remotely as powerfull as revan, the exile, or the emperor.

 

But he was a sith as sith could get.

 

So having a nice army of backstabbing sith at your command might help.

But there are a few thing's about sith you are happy to ignore:

1: They got cronic backstabbing disorder. A sith cant ignore a chance for power any more then a drug addict can resist the lure of free drug's.

2: even if all sith remain loyal(and that is a very optimistic outcome to say the least)

There are still perhaps a few hunder meaby just over a thousent sith in the galaxie.

Compair that to trillions and i mean trillions of expendibol troop's.

All it take's is one lucky hit and you just lost one of your pressue's sith.

Where if you slaught the entire population of corosant you woudnt even make a dent in the galatic empire's numbers.

 

3: training.

If you played a sith you know how difficult it is for a sith to survive training(unless you wear plot armor)

First of not all sith are like darth nox or the emperor's wraith.

Most rate just barely above commando.

 

In fact many sith lords have sith as there servan's(slave's)

 

Where the galatic empire can replace there losses(clone's troops massive factories multiple planets, loyalist)

If you played star wars empire at war/force's of corruption you get a idea how much you need to conquer.

Even with milleneu worth of preperating the sith empire couldnt conquer what it wanted.

Instead they relied on the threaty of corosant and more importantly all those worlds hate the sith.

 

Lets take the galatic empire:

Sure there was a rebelion but most people just live there live's working and serving the empire.

Now think of this: having the manpower to build and man thing's like the sdd and death star?

Just to build and man it you requir thousent's of troops.

 

It might be hard to believe but during world war 2 allies losses(including amarica's) where far far higher then axis losses.

 

That is why i believe that the galatic empire will win.

Not because it is stronger (wich it is but i wont argue) but because it simple can outlast the sith empire man for man planet for planat ship for ship.

 

Let me put it into perspective.

Lets say your sith(ingame) is getting attacked by a endless wave of weak troopers.

How many can you kill befor your to tired to fight?

A 100? a 1000. tillions? even if you never tired eventualy you will fall to the sheer numbers.(bordem and irirtating)

And keep in mind that sith players are far stronger then there npc counter part.

 

All in all even if the sith empire would be stronger then the galatic empire in every possibol way, they simple cant keep up with the numbers.

 

After all 8 planets can create more star ships in a month then 4.

And the number's simply add up.

 

EDIT: i read somewhere stalin said: quantity is a quality of its own.

 

You make some good points: but I'm confused. Are you comparing the SE to Japan or America? I thought you were comparing them to Japan until you said that the allies lost more soldiers during the war and then said that was why the GE would win. I'm confused.

True when sith are focus they become deadly.

But how many years of war can a sith endure?

Even the most bloodlust driving sith will after years of slaughter consider to change side just for a break.

Let me put this image into your mind:

You have bin killing enemies for years, you bin into deserts, tropic's forest, underwater fights, you name it you bin there. and everywhere you go it is the same thing. the same enemies, the same planet your going to retake a few month's from now. Your only break's are between fight's and gaurd duty.

 

Now the enemy is offering you a full pardonship of all your crime's against them,

A life in luxery after the war, double your current pay. all for the small price of changing side.

Now it take's a extreemly loyal person to remain loyal to something after suffering for it for many years.

 

It is the reson why so many jedi are easy to turn.

They are offered to go from servant of the people of the republic to lord and master of your own piece of land.

It is easy to be loyal when everything is well and good.

But every war has its traitor's and sith care for power, not bloodshed in general.

Remember the Sith Code?

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion I gain strength.

Through strength I gain power.

Through power I gain victory.

Through victory my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

The Sith do not and never will, 'want a break'. Peace is a lie to them, they feed of war and the passion it brings. Fighting only makes them exponentially stronger while Jedi grow weaker as they rely on serenity to draw on the light side of the Force. While the Sith feed of passions and off war. Malgus even believed that the only way the Sith could survive was through perpetual war. Perhaps Sith troopers will be encouraged to defect, but no more that a Stormtrooper would - if not less, as everyone in the SE is trained to be fanatically loyal to the Emperor.

You make a very good point, the GE win a war of attrition. But its whether it will come to that. We have to consider what would happen if the SE went on the full offensive. And instead of waiting for wave after wave, cut through and destroyed the source.

 

What I really wanted to highlight here is that the GE is by no means immune to infighting. As as I combed through the previous posts, totting up points, I noticed a lot of people were mentioning unquestionable loyalty to the Empire - which was not the case. However we also have to consider that in terms of the SE - backstabbing was surprisingly rare. They experienced relative peace for 1000 years, with only two insurrections from the Dark Council, which the Emperor put down with ease. And during the Great Galactic War to my knowledge there was no backstabbing or rebellion. Its only in the Cold War period, when Sith and Imperials alike are becoming restless, many angry over the Treaty of Coruscant, and with the Emperor's recession from the limelight and supposed death, are they beginning to stir trouble. I figure they will be too occupied with war against the GE to descend into betrayals and backstabbing, but it is more than a possibility.

 

That's a great point. The Sith are gonna be too focused on a war with the GE to do any backstabbing.

Like Beni said: Japan didn't have force users. OR a Emperor who can pretty much brainwash anyone (save Sidiious in this Kaggath).

 

But I wouldn't say Japan was stronger then the USA. Like you said, industrial might is a big factor.

 

Also: A Japan to America WW2 analogy doesn't quite sum up the SE vs the GE.

 

And as i said: force user isnt instant win.

The force is all-powerfull in star wars.

But force users arent the force.

 

Let me put this into perspective.

How many sith do we kill in swtor every day(from story perspective)

How many normal people?

Alot.

And we are plot armor wearing dimigods.

 

How many sith and jedi did revan kill?

How many did darth vadar or clone/storm troopers kill?

 

When you think of a jedi or sith.

Who do you think of?

Luke skywalker, obi-one kenboi-darth sidous?

Or random jedi on screen for 2 seconds who got shot in the back?

Revenge of the sith showed how easy it is the kill jedi or sith.

HK-47: if i see one more meatbag attacking jedi with a blaster i kill him myself.

 

Rocket's granade's posion dart's etc all effective against jedi.

There are even people who hunt jedi for sport.

 

Let me put this into perspective.

How many people you know in real life can defeat a shoa-lin monk?

Not many.

Now how many armies in the world can?

Suddenly there not so thought.

Why?

Because most of us never expect to fight agains a sheo-lin monk.

Yet a group of soldiers can easly kill them(unless the strike from stealth but lets not go there)

 

The force doesnt make one invinsibol(plot armor does)

Long versions short having nuke's doesnt make you a super power: having influence does.

For example: russia has alot of nuke's yet most of us dont consider russia a super power.

A nuclear threat yes but we dont give a rats *** about what they think aslong it doesnt invole us getting nuked.

 

Like wise having force powers doesnt make you uber baddass. it just makes you harder to kill.

You make some good points: but I'm confused. Are you comparing the SE to Japan or America? I thought you were comparing them to Japan until you said that the allies lost more soldiers during the war and then said that was why the GE would win. I'm confused.

 

Sith empire(japan) vs galatic empire(amarica)

 

I keep repeating this.

In a war of attritation the sith empire losses.

The only way for the sith empire to win a war of attriation is by turning alot of the galatic empire agains itself.

Remember the Sith Code?

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion I gain strength.

Through strength I gain power.

Through power I gain victory.

Through victory my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me.

The Sith do not and never will, 'want a break'. Peace is a lie to them, they feed of war and the passion it brings. Fighting only makes them exponentially stronger while Jedi grow weaker as they rely on serenity to draw on the light side of the Force. While the Sith feed of passions and off war. Malgus even believed that the only way the Sith could survive was through perpetual war. Perhaps Sith troopers will be encouraged to defect, but no more that a Stormtrooper would - if not less, as everyone in the SE is trained to be fanatically loyal to the Emperor.

 

Even so if you love war woudnt you fight for the one who offer's more?

Edited December 20, 2012 by internaty

That is the enitre point:

Unless the sith empire can hit several key target's in close succesion and without fail(aka humany impossibol)

Target's like kuat, corosant, the emperor, every last moff, and certian target's forbidden for this topic.

If you miss even one target you will have your war of attrition.

 

You have to sirously cripple the galatic empire befor the war even start's(something the sith emperor is good at) in order to stand a fair chance.

 

Far more likely is that lord videan(i believe the sith emperor's name is) is to simply wait for darth sideus to die of old age of have him assasinted then take over his empire.

 

 

True when sith are focus they become deadly.

But how many years of war can a sith endure?

Even the most bloodlust driving sith will after years of slaughter consider to change side just for a break.

Let me put this image into your mind:

You have bin killing enemies for years, you bin into deserts, tropic's forest, underwater fights, you name it you bin there. and everywhere you go it is the same thing. the same enemies, the same planet your going to retake a few month's from now. Your only break's are between fight's and gaurd duty.

 

Now the enemy is offering you a full pardonship of all your crime's against them,

A life in luxery after the war, double your current pay. all for the small price of changing side.

Now it take's a extreemly loyal person to remain loyal to something after suffering for it for many years.

 

It is the reson why so many jedi are easy to turn.

They are offered to go from servant of the people of the republic to lord and master of your own piece of land.

It is easy to be loyal when everything is well and good.

But every war has its traitor's and sith care for power, not bloodshed in general.

 

The GE is not THAT much bigger then the SE. At least, they're not big enough to counter the Sith. Here's what the Sith do:

- fight like hell

- they're the BEST commanders due to abilities like precognition

 

This war would be like Anakin podracing against all those othere aliens. Without the force, he'd have lost big time. But guess what? He did have the force. And he was unstoppable. He saw things coming.

 

Imagine all the SIth Commanders. There will be one at the helm of every ship commanding the vessel. They're gonna see things coming and they're gonna react to the GE's plans with great speed. They're gonna be able to inflict some serious damage on the GE.

 

Then there's Vitaite's mind control. Imagine him capturing one of Sidious's promenint Moffs. Vitiate brainwashes the Moff and then ransoms him back to the GE. Vitaite makes a ton of money and now has a weapon with which he can inflict a lot of internal damage on the GE.

The GE is not THAT much bigger then the SE. At least, they're not big enough to counter the Sith. Here's what the Sith do:

- fight like hell

- they're the BEST commanders due to abilities like precognition

 

This war would be like Anakin podracing against all those othere aliens. Without the force, he'd have lost big time. But guess what? He did have the force. And he was unstoppable. He saw things coming.

 

Imagine all the SIth Commanders. There will be one at the helm of every ship commanding the vessel. They're gonna see things coming and they're gonna react to the GE's plans with great speed. They're gonna be able to inflict some serious damage on the GE.

 

Then there's Vitaite's mind control. Imagine him capturing one of Sidious's promenint Moffs. Vitiate brainwashes the Moff and then ransoms him back to the GE. Vitaite makes a ton of money and now has a weapon with which he can inflict a lot of internal damage on the GE.

 

As i keep saying not all sith are as strong as the heroes you keep brining up.

Tho the moff is a good idea.

Alright Beni: it's time to make your decision. At this point I don't think there's anything left to add to our debate.

in a final opinion I believe that Sith Emperor's magic would overcome Sidious.The GE would win in space combat

but lose in ground combat.In the end I believe that the SE and the emperor would barely win...

The GE is not THAT much bigger then the SE. At least, they're not big enough to counter the Sith. Here's what the Sith do:

- fight like hell

- they're the BEST commanders due to abilities like precognition

 

This war would be like Anakin podracing against all those othere aliens. Without the force, he'd have lost big time. But guess what? He did have the force. And he was unstoppable. He saw things coming.

 

Imagine all the SIth Commanders. There will be one at the helm of every ship commanding the vessel. They're gonna see things coming and they're gonna react to the GE's plans with great speed. They're gonna be able to inflict some serious damage on the GE.

 

Then there's Vitaite's mind control. Imagine him capturing one of Sidious's promenint Moffs. Vitiate brainwashes the Moff and then ransoms him back to the GE. Vitaite makes a ton of money and now has a weapon with which he can inflict a lot of internal damage on the GE.

 

To use game terms, you seem to be using the 31/31/31 build there Only exceptional sith have those abilities, your average glowstick won't.

 

The Ascendant Spear seems to be a ridiculously powerful super weapon from what we've heard, able to solo planetary defense systems all on its own, a bit unfair on the GE given what they've had excluded. Regardless, if the Spear was such a threat I think Palpatine would be perfectly happy to sacrifice an interdictor and a fleet to use a force storm and destroy the thing. Even if this didn't happen, it would still be destroyed if up against the GE's full might. Any ship, no matter how fast, cannot dodge tens of thousands of laser bolts. We've seen TIE fighters hit the falcon quite easily, I see no reason why swarms of TIEs couldn't slow/destroy the spear enough for the SDs to vaporise it.

 

Territory

Who owns x% of the galaxy is entirely irrelevant. Owning a planet is always a negative unless it provides economic or strategic benefit, otherwise forces are wasted defending it. Given the blitzkrieg tactics of the SE, much of their territory is 'theirs' but not under their control, they must contend with a hostile populace, begin extracting resources, and utilizing infrastructure. This takes time and is highly inefficient compared with 'controlled' planets. Thus, we can't really consider the benefit of these new planets until a few years pass, and the GE steamroller takes over.

 

X years of preparation

Also largely irrelevant. Nations have been funding for year for millenia, yet we don't have swordsmen in our armies any more. As time passes technology becomes obsolete and is replaced, meaning that in terms of size the SE fleet cannot be considered what they could build in 1000 years as most of this will have been replaced. Realistically, they've probably only been using the ships they used to invade with for about a decade or so sticking them at a significant disadvantage size wise (since technological gains don't count in this). Also note that they are limited by their population, as far as I know humans don't live 1000 years in star wars, so they're stuck with the population of the time they invade with. Conscription will help, but actual recruiting will be hindered as they first have to control and then indoctrinate the planets they capture. While the SE may be better than the GE for aliens, is it good enough for them to want to die for it? I think not.

The Rebels won...

Well, yeah. Note however that the Battle of Endor was between a comparatively small (athough significant) portion of the GE fleet and the entire rebel fleet. Had the entire GE fleet been used, the rebels would have been crushed like a bug. It was a trap that went bad due to the emperor's overconfidence, against a fellow sith lord I doubt he would make this mistake.

 

Everthing I can think of atm

Edited December 20, 2012 by Vacarius

To use game terms, you seem to be using the 31/31/31 build there Only exceptional sith have those abilities, your average glowstick won't.

 

The Ascendant Spear seems to be a ridiculously powerful super weapon from what we've heard, able to solo planetary defense systems all on its own, a bit unfair on the GE given what they've had excluded. Regardless, if the Spear was such a threat I think Palpatine would be perfectly happy to sacrifice an interdictor and a fleet to use a force storm and destroy the thing. Even if this didn't happen, it would still be destroyed if up against the GE's full might. Any ship, no matter how fast, cannot dodge tens of thousands of laser bolts. We've seen TIE fighters hit the falcon quite easily, I see no reason why swarms of TIEs couldn't slow/destroy the spear enough for the SDs to vaporise it.

Whether it is a 'superweapon' or not is debatable. It certainly doesn't compare the the Death Star or the Galaxy Gun. And according to many people here the Executor and other SSDs could take out the Ascendant Spear. So if the Spear is banned, I would have to ban the Executor and SSDs as well. But I decided to deem both able to fight.

 

And then Forces storms - I'm afraid this falls into the category of 'superweapon', not only is the ability to rip holes in the space-time continuum to create massive wormholes, capable of transporting ships across thousands of light years or tear them apart, and devastate entire planets, and transport the user forward in time,completely ridiculous and flying in the face of all established canon, but its more powerful than 10 Death Stars combined and is basically an insta-win button in every and any duel. Banned, banned, banned. What next EU writers? Time tra- oh wait you've done that one...

 

Territory

Who owns x% of the galaxy is entirely irrelevant. Owning a planet is always a negative unless it provides economic or strategic benefit, otherwise forces are wasted defending it. Given the blitzkrieg tactics of the SE, much of their territory is 'theirs' but not under their control, they must contend with a hostile populace, begin extracting resources, and utilizing infrastructure. This takes time and is highly inefficient compared with 'controlled' planets. Thus, we can't really consider the benefit of these new planets until a few years pass, and the GE steamroller takes over

This however is an excellent point. I suppose it ties in with infrastructure but it certainly adds to the argument. The GE has planets that have been under Imperial/Republic control for decades if not centuries in some cases which means their resources and political structure are firmly under control. The situation on the SE side however, with only a large strip of the outer rim under firm control, and the rest recently conquered, is going to be more volatile. The SE will have to use resources on maintaining these planets and strengthening them. However the GE will have to contend with insurrection instigated by the SE.

 

X years of preparation

Also largely irrelevant. Nations have been funding for year for millenia, yet we don't have swordsmen in our armies any more. As time passes technology becomes obsolete and is replaced, meaning that in terms of size the SE fleet cannot be considered what they could build in 1000 years as most of this will have been replaced. Realistically, they've probably only been using the ships they used to invade with for about a decade or so sticking them at a significant disadvantage size wise (since technological gains don't count in this). Also note that they are limited by their population, as far as I know humans don't live 1000 years in star wars, so they're stuck with the population of the time they invade with. Conscription will help, but actual recruiting will be hindered as they first have to control and then indoctrinate the planets they capture. While the SE may be better than the GE for aliens, is it good enough for them to want to die for it? I think not.

Not so, this only really applies to the GE who have only had SDs and SSDs for 10 or so years. The Harrower class dreadnought (the vanguard of the imperial navy) was designed by Odile Vaiken only decades after the SE settled on Dromund Kaas. So it has been in the Imperial Navy for over a 1000 years and likely improved upon and perfected over that period. The same can be said of their fighters. Unlike the TIE-series fighter which only ever had one design (other designs never got past experimental stage to my knowledge) the Supermacy-class starfighter had reached Mark VI. So we can assume the design has been perfected over 1000 years to be the paragon of starfighter technology possible at the time and on a mass produceable scale. While the Harrower was the paragon of dreadnought technology at the time.

The Rebels won...

Well, yeah. Note however that the Battle of Endor was between a comparatively small (athough significant) portion of the GE fleet and the entire rebel fleet. Had the entire GE fleet been used, the rebels would have been crushed like a bug. It was a trap that went bad due to the emperor's overconfidence, against a fellow sith lord I doubt he would make this mistake.

Well, the fleet protecting Endor was massive - excessive even. I don't think you could have been more overprepared. If he had any more they be bumping into each other, literally (you can't fit 20,000 SDs and 30 SSDs over one planet)

 

We're talking the Vader and Sidious (with full on battle meditation), the Death Star II, the Executor, a communications ship, 2 battlecruisers, 34 SDs and hundreds of starfighters.

Just throwing this out again... The Sith Empire couldn't take the galaxy from a relatively weak Republic in the TOR era. The sacking of Coruscant wasn't a true invasion. They never held the planet. If they couldn't overtake the Republic in their own era, they are NEVER going to take defeat the Galactic Empire, which is much larger and has far more resources.

 

Also, I don't possibly see how the Emperor would be subject to orbital bombardment. He certainly has an emergency bunker or some sort of contingency plan for that. And that is putting aside the fact that defeating the planet's defenses and deactivating the planetary shield is a lot tougher than "magic brainwashing, abracadabra!"

The GE is not THAT much bigger then the SE. At least, they're not big enough to counter the Sith. Here's what the Sith do:

- fight like hell

- they're the BEST commanders due to abilities like precognition

 

This war would be like Anakin podracing against all those othere aliens. Without the force, he'd have lost big time. But guess what? He did have the force. And he was unstoppable. He saw things coming.

 

Imagine all the SIth Commanders. There will be one at the helm of every ship commanding the vessel. They're gonna see things coming and they're gonna react to the GE's plans with great speed. They're gonna be able to inflict some serious damage on the GE.

 

Then there's Vitaite's mind control. Imagine him capturing one of Sidious's promenint Moffs. Vitiate brainwashes the Moff and then ransoms him back to the GE. Vitaite makes a ton of money and now has a weapon with which he can inflict a lot of internal damage on the GE.

 

Sidious' Battle Meditation turns the so-called "Sith Commanders" into your average Sith and makes his own troops and tacticians far superior.

 

Unless Vitiate gets someone like Grand Moff Tarkin, that plan is useless. The only really important Moff is Tarkin. And doesn't Vitiate have to be in the same room for his mind control to work? Because Revan mangaed to shake it off after getting so far away. I don't think he can just pick and choose someone to mind control from wherever.

 

Look. We've been over this. The Galactic Empire is far superior to the SE. More troops, better ships, better special forces, better industry. And they have the most powerful Sith Lord to ever walk the galaxy who could disintegrate people with his Force Lightning.

 

Edit: And the Sith Empire couldn't even beat a relatively weak Republic in their time. Now the Republic is bigger and badder.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Aurbere

Sidious' Battle Meditation turns the so-called "Sith Commanders" into your average Sith and makes his own troops and tacticians far superior.

 

Unless Vitiate gets someone like Grand Moff Tarkin, that plan is useless. The only really important Moff is Tarkin. And doesn't Vitiate have to be in the same room for his mind control to work? Because Revan mangaed to shake it off after getting so far away. I don't think he can just pick and choose someone to mind control from wherever.

 

Look. We've been over this. The Galactic Empire is far superior to the SE. More troops, better ships, better special forces, better industry. And they have the most powerful Sith Lord to ever walk the galaxy who could disintegrate people with his Force Lightning.

 

Edit: And the Sith Empire couldn't even beat a relatively weak Republic in their time. Now the Republic is bigger and badder.

But your forgetting a key factor, the Republic had Jedi. And IMO if Revan hadn't orchestrated the Treaty of Coruscant the SE would have destroyed them.

 

And what's this about the Republic being 'relatively weak'? They had experienced 300 years of peace which not only bolstered the Jedi Order but also allowed them to improve their military to be on par with that of the SEs. (I don't think I need to mention that the GE was defeated by the Rebel Alliance). Not to mention the fact that the SE was winning the Great Galactic War (Satele Shan also admitted that if the war were to start up again 'we would lose') and the only thing that saved them was the Treaty of Coruscant. An unfinished war in which the Republic were losing is hardly a point against the SE.

 

As for the planetary shield plan, I was thinking more Mara Jade, or maybe some technician. As you don't have to have 'special codes' to deactivate it - just blow it to pieces (or whatever Shae Vizla did). But hey, Tarkin will do I suppose. Cipher 9 can go and get him.

 

And most points concerning Sidious battle meditation are speculation at best. If all it takes is skilled battle meditation to put you on par with the likes of Malgus and Angral then hey, why did Tarkin even join the Empire? Seem to have a lot of his talent already...

 

I think both sides are guilty of pushing the insta-win button here. GE supporters seem to think that technological supremacy = victory and SE supporters seem to think the Force = victory. When this is not the case as the GE has the Force and the SE had technological power.

 

P.S Nice colour

But your forgetting a key factor, the Republic had Jedi. And IMO if Revan hadn't orchestrated the Treaty of Coruscant the SE would have destroyed them.

 

And what's this about the Republic being 'relatively weak'? They had experienced 300 years of peace which not only bolstered the Jedi Order but also allowed them to improve their military to be on par with that of the SEs. (I don't think I need to mention that the GE was defeated by the Rebel Alliance). Not to mention the fact that the SE was winning the Great Galactic War (Satele Shan also admitted that if the war were to start up again 'we would lose') and the only thing that saved them was the Treaty of Coruscant. An unfinished war in which the Republic were losing is hardly a point against the SE.

 

As for the planetary shield plan, I was thinking more Mara Jade, or maybe some technician. As you don't have to have 'special codes' to deactivate it - just blow it to pieces (or whatever Shae Vizla did). But hey, Tarkin will do I suppose. Cipher 9 can go and get him.

 

And most points concerning Sidious battle meditation are speculation at best. If all it takes is skilled battle meditation to put you on par with the likes of Malgus and Angral then hey, why did Tarkin even join the Empire? Seem to have a lot of his talent already...

 

I think both sides are guilty of pushing the insta-win button here. GE supporters seem to think that technological supremacy = victory and SE supporters seem to think the Force = victory. When this is not the case as the GE has the Force and the SE had technological power.

 

P.S Nice colour

 

The TOR Republic is weak compared to the Galactic Empire. The GE has the largest fleet in history. Death Squadron was the strongest fleet to ever exist. They have nearly limitless troops, far superior ships (the only good ship the SE has here is the Spear), better vehicles, and better industry. On industry, I'm talking the Kuat Drive Yards. That shipyard is a monster, capable of producing SD's quickly. Not to mention Tarkin's Maw Installation which would act as a secret facility. I believe that's where the Death Star was built.

 

The SE's biggest threat to the GE is their Sith. And I've already shown how the GE takes care of the Sith. The Shadow Guard and Sovereign Protectors can handle your average Sith Warrior, which is what the "Sith Army" is mostly comprised of. The Dark Troopers can also handle Sith, being comprised of Phrik Alloy and all that. They also have the 501st legion, which as we have seen has experience with Force users.

 

On the topic of the Rebellion defeating the Galactic Empire. Yeah, they won. But they were losing most of the time. They won through guerilla tactics. The MO of the Sith Empire is the same as the Galactic Empire: overwhelming firepower. Except the GE does it better.

 

The Galactic Empire wins this through sheer firepower and Sidious' Battle Meditation.

 

PS. Experimenting with the new color

Just throwing this out again... The Sith Empire couldn't take the galaxy from a relatively weak Republic in the TOR era. The sacking of Coruscant wasn't a true invasion. They never held the planet. If they couldn't overtake the Republic in their own era, they are NEVER going to take defeat the Galactic Empire, which is much larger and has far more resources.

 

Also, I don't possibly see how the Emperor would be subject to orbital bombardment. He certainly has an emergency bunker or some sort of contingency plan for that. And that is putting aside the fact that defeating the planet's defenses and deactivating the planetary shield is a lot tougher than "magic brainwashing, abracadabra!"

 

Weak Republic? The Republic had experienced 300 years of peace. I don't think they were weak. They were unprepared, but not weak.

 

I think the SE would have won if not for the Treaty of Coruscant. Remember: Revan decieved Vitiate into believing that the treaty was what was best. If the SE had continued its assault, I think they would have won.

 

And everybody is saying that the SE is gonna have little power because of the way in which it conquered many planets. Is that true? Partially. But there are without a doubt planets (it was displayed in the timeline stuff) that were fully taken over. This was due to the Emperor taking a long time to distablize and corrupt the governments of these planets. Such planets do not fit this criteria that everyone is talking about. He's not gonna have a bunch of rebellions.

 

EDIT: go watch the timeling video that was made after the Battle of Bothuwai (I think it's called Onslaught of the Empire)

 

Look at how he corrupted those planets. Why couldn't he do the same to the planets surving under Sidious?

Edited December 20, 2012 by MasterMe

Sidious' Battle Meditation turns the so-called "Sith Commanders" into your average Sith and makes his own troops and tacticians far superior.

 

Unless Vitiate gets someone like Grand Moff Tarkin, that plan is useless. The only really important Moff is Tarkin. And doesn't Vitiate have to be in the same room for his mind control to work? Because Revan mangaed to shake it off after getting so far away. I don't think he can just pick and choose someone to mind control from wherever.

 

Look. We've been over this. The Galactic Empire is far superior to the SE. More troops, better ships, better special forces, better industry. And they have the most powerful Sith Lord to ever walk the galaxy who could disintegrate people with his Force Lightning.

 

Edit: And the Sith Empire couldn't even beat a relatively weak Republic in their time. Now the Republic is bigger and badder.

 

Revan was able to break the mind control because of either

A: he was a force user

and/or

B: he lost connection with the Emperor due to Malak's backstabbing that cost Revan his memory

 

You make a decent point about the Battle Meditation, and I would agree with you, BUT Sidious's battle med didn't save him from the RA. Just sayin'....

 

As for your points about the army: I agree that the GE has MORE ships and MORE soldiers, but I don't think that they outnumber the SE by the scale you present. I would argue the same for the SE troops. Those guys have lived been through a war that lasted 28 years. That long war creates veterans that are both better at fighting and better at leading.

 

Oh BTW, the Republic was not weak. They'd experience 300 years of peace and they had plenty of Jedi. Did the Empire ever have to take out Jedi? Not really. They succeded in doing Order 66 to the Jedi, but that only worked because it was a complete suprise and backstabbish move. These 501st do not have that much experience taking out Jedi. So what? They shot a few Jedi in the back. Does that make them skilled at killing force users? No.

Edited December 20, 2012 by MasterMe