Good luck with that.

Are you kidding me? Are you seriously for real?

 

I'll try again. Why bring a commando to a RWZ, over a melee DPS or sniper? No, a list of crap like '30m burst' and '30m interrupt' isn't going to cut it.

 

Geez.

 

Edit:

 

 

 

I'm saying you'll quite happily try and **** up this thread, because you have nothing invested in this class. I'm calling you a troll. Again. You're the equivalent of me rolling into a sniper thread, and shooting down any concerns for the devs with 'YOU ALL SUCK, SNIPER IS FINE, LEARN TO PLAY!'

 

Ive been telling the same stuff for months in the Shadow and Scoundrel forums and the Lethality suxx for RbG threads.

 

If the team is willing to try new stuff and the player behind the class knows what he is doing it will be viable!

 

(thats what my guild and i do, try new stuff and ignoring forum QQ, and heck its amazing )

 

I gonna end this discussion right here, because its heading nowhere.

 

 

We can continue this discussion via pm if u wish so.

Ive been telling the same stuff for months in the Shadow and Scoundrel forums and the Lethality suxx for RbG threads.

 

If the team is willing to try new stuff and the player behind the class knows what he is doing it will be viable!

 

(thats what my guild and i do, try new stuff and ignoring forum QQ, and heck its amazing )

 

I gonna end this discussion right here, because its heading nowhere.

 

 

We can continue this discussion via pm if u wish so.

 

Probably best that we cut it here, as I don't think we're going to agree. I have no problems with *anyone* wanting to have fun with the class, that's a great worthy goal. I've run ranked with Zach and had fun with him, even though I know he's not at all the best choice.

 

The aim here is to have the class be as good as other picks for RWZs - without just having to be head and shoulders better than people playing more optimal classes. And it is there that our intractable disagreement lies.

Probably best that we cut it here, as I don't think we're going to agree. I have no problems with *anyone* wanting to have fun with the class, that's a great worthy goal. I've run ranked with Zach and had fun with him, even though I know he's not at all the best choice.

 

The aim here is to have the class be as good as other picks for RWZs - without just having to be head and shoulders better than people playing more optimal classes. And it is there that our intractable disagreement lies.

 

There is no way to make every class equally wanted in this game. The skill needed to play cartain classes is quite unbalanced.

 

Majority of people will always play what is the easiest yet most efficient in their noob hands.

 

Out of 20 PTs you have 15 that reach the same results. But out of 100 Mandos you will find probably only 1-2 that got the clue on how to play their class.

 

Why would you play a 20+ keybind scoundrel or dd shadow when you can reach the same dmg results with spamming ionpulse?

 

For me its the fun and challenge to suceed on classes others just cant put to work.

 

I reach the same results but im working harder. Thats exactly what i want!

Edited March 28, 2013 by texoc

I reach the same results but im working harder. Thats exactly what i want!

 

Again, I don't believe you will. But have fun trying.

Texoc you're an idiot and you need to shut the hell up because everything you say makes it obvious you have no freaking clue what you're talking about.

 

EVERYTHING is gated by grav round. Everything. Even that semi-burst we'll get in 2.0 by having a full damage demo round after one cast is unavailable when we don't have Tech Override up (which is why we keep asking for a reasonable cooldown on that). Why not? Because a good ranked team is going to quickly find out you're there and will shut you down before you can get even one cast off when you don't have TO up.

 

That doesn't even address the fact that HiB (which doesn't honestly do that great a damage when not fully buffed) STILL requires 3 casts for maximum damage. Sticky grenade is also pretty meh

 

Also if you think sniper burst is so much less than commando burst then I don't know what to tell you. You're bad at sniper.

 

If you wanna just go piddle around in ranked with commando that's one thing but lets not sit here and pretend it's viable. You wanna gimp your team for the sake of your own personal sense of fun? You go do that. It's cool that you've found a team that doesn't care if they win. Or maybe you're just on a server that can't field any decent ranked teams? Judging by those screenshots you have a LOT of bads on your server who are letting you free cast. If a ranked team lets you do that on commando they're bad though and your team was going to win with 7 people.

 

And by the way it only takes one interrupt. One interrupt, one 4 second stun, and you're dead anyway, assuming you have two people on you.

 

Honestly I can't believe you're not actually a troll. You are too used to sniper where they can't get to you, and high tail it may be a redesign but it's a pretty good redesign. You can keep your distance and get your damage off. Commando can't do that with any consistency against good players. We've said it again and again. We've SEEN it again and again.

 

But hey maybe we've all just been horrible horrible players while you YOU were the commando savior we've all been waiting on. Please, take the class you just got to 50 and show us all what we've been doing wrong. I'll wait.

 

EVERYTHING is gated by grav round. Everything. Even that semi-burst we'll get in 2.0 by having a full damage demo round after one cast is unavailable when we don't have Tech Override up (which is why we keep asking for a reasonable cooldown on that). Why not? Because a good ranked team is going to quickly find out you're there and will shut you down before you can get even one cast off when you don't have TO up.

.

 

^^ This.

 

Everything in Arsenal is linked to grav meaning that you absolutely MUST get that cast off. All you have to do as another class is cast a 1 button interrupt on their tracer and they are done. The mercs DPS evaporates while you lolfaceroll them. It is why Mercs are the absolute worst PvP class in the game.

 

The class needs a mobile rotation with access to full procs. I don't care if it's at reduced damage just so long as they aren't completely shutdown as soon as someone gets on them.

Ever thought about fake casting??

 

 

jeeez....

I agree with Jherad and jacknader. Mercenary and commando are 2 of the coolest classes in this game its sucks that they aren't a real option to play ranked with in dps spec, I made a sniper because its the only ranged dps that can do ranked from what I have heard. So far I like my sniper alot the class is really good.

Again, I don't believe you will. But have fun trying.

 

I play on your server and play a lot of ranked pvp and I honestly have to say that if the 2.0 changes go into effect, mercs will be absolutely viable for ranked pvp.

 

One of the most important, though least discussed facets of what makes a class good in ranked is versatility. Classes which can respec to heals or tank are extremely valuable for things like huttball or voidstar defense.

 

Previously, mercs were a liability in hutball, but they now have hydraulic overrides. an ability which actually makes them viable ball carriers.

 

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Additionally, being able to respec to a very durable healing tree as a third healer in void star defense is absolutely massive. the amount of burst healing a merc can do will make it very difficult to kill other healers, while the merc has its own temporary "Do Not Die Button".

 

I'm not saying that mercs are totally necessary or required in ranked, but to say that there is no reason to bring one is highly inaccurate imo.

I play on your server and play a lot of ranked pvp and I honestly have to say that if the 2.0 changes go into effect, mercs will be absolutely viable for ranked pvp.

 

One of the most important, though least discussed facets of what makes a class good in ranked is versatility. Classes which can respec to heals or tank are extremely valuable for things like huttball or voidstar defense.

 

Previously, mercs were a liability in hutball, but they now have hydraulic overrides. an ability which actually makes them viable ball carriers.

 

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Additionally, being able to respec to a very durable healing tree as a third healer in void star defense is absolutely massive. the amount of burst healing a merc can do will make it very difficult to kill other healers, while the merc has its own temporary "Do Not Die Button".

 

I'm not saying that mercs are totally necessary or required in ranked, but to say that there is no reason to bring one is highly inaccurate imo.

 

Thank god, there is 1 player that understands me....

I play on your server and play a lot of ranked pvp and I honestly have to say that if the 2.0 changes go into effect, mercs will be absolutely viable for ranked pvp.

 

One of the most important, though least discussed facets of what makes a class good in ranked is versatility. Classes which can respec to heals or tank are extremely valuable for things like huttball or voidstar defense.

 

Previously, mercs were a liability in hutball, but they now have hydraulic overrides. an ability which actually makes them viable ball carriers.

 

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Additionally, being able to respec to a very durable healing tree as a third healer in void star defense is absolutely massive. the amount of burst healing a merc can do will make it very difficult to kill other healers, while the merc has its own temporary "Do Not Die Button".

 

I'm not saying that mercs are totally necessary or required in ranked, but to say that there is no reason to bring one is highly inaccurate imo.

 

The problem is that a GS/Sniper (I compare the two because they booth have to self-root to bust out the dmg i.e. they are turrets) is everything that a DPS Merc/Comm is and more. They can also offer more mitigation and have more tricks in the ol' bag. So far the only thing differentiating the two classes is that the GS/Sniper does ton more damage.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ossos
misspelling

The problem is that a GS/Sniper is everything that a DPS Merc/Comm is and more. They can also offer more mitigation and have more tricks in the ol' bag. So far the only thing differentiating the two classes is that the GS/Sniper does ton more damage.

 

Snipers don't have offheals/a battle rez/a durable healing spec to respec to

Snipers are the weakest huttball class in the game, as opposed to mercs, who actually have an ability to help them carry the ball

Snipers don't have an ability like electro net, which can completely change the course of a game by using it to make a healer extremely vulnerable.

 

Snipers are a great class to have in ranked pvp, but to say that the only difference between a slinger/sniper and a merc is damage output its ridiculous.

Ever thought about fake casting??

 

 

jeeez....

lol, are you seriously suggesting juking a tracer missile cast? in a game where there's way more interrupts than in WoW?

 

i used to try to bait people to interrupt my heals, but quickly realized that it was useless because they'll just interrupt with something else.

 

before you point out that i have a PT, my original main was a merc

Snipers don't have offheals/a battle rez/a durable healing spec to respec to

Snipers are the weakest huttball class in the game, as opposed to mercs, who actually have an ability to help them carry the ball

Snipers don't have an ability like electro net, which can completely change the course of a game by using it to make a healer extremely vulnerable.

 

Snipers are a great class to have in ranked pvp, but to say that the only difference between a slinger/sniper and a merc is damage output its ridiculous.

 

You're right. I should have said that the Merc/Commando is able to mitigate less damge, is far more squishy, and is less able to defend itself than a Sniper/GS...and they're both turrets with Merc/Comms do far less damage.

 

Oh, and Snipers/GSs can root players, knock players back, and stun them about 3x more than Merc/Comms can. This is why when there's an incoming Maurader...I sigh because it's seconds I have to take out of the game to blast them down versus moving that ball forward. I don't sigh because it's certain death...unlike some classes.

 

You know what a GS/Sniper can do to mitigate 100% of incoming damge quickly that a Merc/Comm can't?

 

Kill the source of that incoming damge.

 

Don't get me wrong, I WANT to play a Commando...badly. It's just that they bring nothing to the table outside of heals...that every other healer type does better.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ossos
misspelling

I play on your server and play a lot of ranked pvp and I honestly have to say that if the 2.0 changes go into effect, mercs will be absolutely viable for ranked pvp.

 

One of the most important, though least discussed facets of what makes a class good in ranked is versatility. Classes which can respec to heals or tank are extremely valuable for things like huttball or voidstar defense.

 

Previously, mercs were a liability in hutball, but they now have hydraulic overrides. an ability which actually makes them viable ball carriers.

 

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Additionally, being able to respec to a very durable healing tree as a third healer in void star defense is absolutely massive. the amount of burst healing a merc can do will make it very difficult to kill other healers, while the merc has its own temporary "Do Not Die Button".

 

I'm not saying that mercs are totally necessary or required in ranked, but to say that there is no reason to bring one is highly inaccurate imo.

 

All I can say is it remains to be seen. Time will tell. I agree with what you're saying good sir (or madam) and it would be nice to see it pan out so optimistically. But we've also been waiting for a year -- literally a year -- to see changes to the class. Our last major balancing was April 2012 (April 12th to be exact) and 2.0 launches April 2013 (April 14th to be exact). I can't be the only one that doesn't want to spend $155 on a subscription just to see if Bioware finally resolves the Commando/Mercenary problems in April 2014.

 

Trust me, I hope you are right. Otherwise Bioware might have spent millions on one of the most successful trolling schemes I've ever seen.

You're right. I should have said that the Merc/Commando is able to mitigate less damge, is far more squishy, and is less able to defend itself than a Sniper/GS...and they're both turrets with Merc/Comms do far less damage.

 

Oh, and Snipers/GSs can root players, knock players back, and stun them about 3x more than Merc/Comms can. This is why when there's an incoming Maurader...I sigh because it's seconds I have to take out of the game to blast them down versus moving that ball forward. I don't sigh because it's certain death...unlike some classes.

 

You know what a GS/Sniper can do to mitigate 100% of incoming damge quickly that a Merc/Comm can't?

 

Kill the source of that incoming damge.

 

Don't get me wrong, I WANT to play a Commando...badly. It's just that they bring nothing to the table outside of heals...that every other healer type does better.

 

Snipers are good, no arguing that, one might even say that as of right now they are overtuned, especially lethality, which is putting out ridiculous numbers, though much of that can be explained due to PTS gear disparity and the nature of the class (AOE dot spec, lethality operatives were putting up insane numbers as well but you would never want to bring one of those to ranked)

 

But there is no rule saying you must bring either a sniper or a merc. Its not out of the question to bring both. I listed a few things which can potentially make mercs a valuable asset in ranked pvp, things which snipers do not offer and you basically ignored them.

 

I will admit that I'm not an expert at mercenary or sniper. But from an outsiders perspective looking in, it looks like mercenaries have a ton of tools that will make them a pain to kill in 2.0. They already had some decent tools, such as the best knockback in the game, a decent insta cast heal, as well as some more typical stuff like stuns and a 30m cc. But now with hydraulic overrides and kolto bomb, as well as being a heavy armor class, they are going to be a pain to take down.

But there is no rule saying you must bring either a sniper or a merc.

there's also no rule that you have to run in a sprint race, but if you want a chance to win, you pretty much have to. sniper is to running, as merc is to walking.

 

But from an outsiders perspective looking in, it looks like mercenaries have a ton of tools that will make them a pain to kill in 2.0. They already had some decent tools, such as the best knockback in the game

you have obviously never been knocked back and rooted by a sniper then? not to mention a sniper can be immune to gap closers, eliminating a need to knockback in the first place.

a decent insta cast heal

kolto missile? without the bodyguard talents, it's not going to heal you any more than what a dps will do to you in the same GCD. basically, you just gave the other guy a free global to hit you.

as well as some more typical stuff like stuns and a 30m cc.

not sure exactly what you're referring to here, but if you're thinking of electro-dart, that was nerfed to 10m as part of the pyro nerf.

But now with hydraulic overrides and kolto bomb, as well as being a heavy armor class, they are going to be a pain to take down.

hydraulic override can let you run away, but as a turret class that doesn't have a tool to prevent gap closers, you aren't going to be able to actually DO anything. you can't run and dot, you can't run and heal, and you certainly won't be able to run and kill. maybe if hydraulic override lets you "fly" 20m away, and lets you get 2 shots off before you knock back, and then roll.. err.. "fly" another 20m away.. >_>

 

as indicated before, the kolto bomb won't do much unless you are talented into the bodyguard tree.

Edited March 28, 2013 by oredith

Ever thought about fake casting??

 

 

jeeez....

 

 

Like everything else which a good commando can do, this is a great way to beat bad players, albeit players who at least know that they HAVE an interrupt. This goes along with positioning correctly, making sure you don't rambo, that you don't even make yourself part of a 2 man assault if you can help it. Doing everything you can to stay on the fringes of an engagement and hope the melee tunnel vision and don't notice you there raining down death.

 

All of which is no good against smart players with good situational awareness. They see you, they get to you. I know when I face mercs I take the less than half second to read what it is they're casting before pressing my interrupt instead of twitching it because no one will ever care if you interrupt Fusion Missile. Since I am a self admitted not very good player, I figure that anything I think to do, others will think to do.

 

So no, interrupt juking does not a viable class make.

 

I play on your server and play a lot of ranked pvp and I honestly have to say that if the 2.0 changes go into effect, mercs will be absolutely viable for ranked pvp.

 

One of the most important, though least discussed facets of what makes a class good in ranked is versatility. Classes which can respec to heals or tank are extremely valuable for things like huttball or voidstar defense.

 

Previously, mercs were a liability in hutball, but they now have hydraulic overrides. an ability which actually makes them viable ball carriers.

 

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Additionally, being able to respec to a very durable healing tree as a third healer in void star defense is absolutely massive. the amount of burst healing a merc can do will make it very difficult to kill other healers, while the merc has its own temporary "Do Not Die Button".

 

I'm not saying that mercs are totally necessary or required in ranked, but to say that there is no reason to bring one is highly inaccurate imo.

 

We can hope that they keep allowing field respecs. I know my shadow certainly hopes that, but you're bringing an actual fresh perspective so lets discuss things you and I. I'll concede here and now that this is mostly informed theory crafting. You never quite know how the new meta is gonna shake out, and our viability depends somewhat on that meta. I'll address your points as they appeared, though I don't feel like requoting all of it bit by bit if that's ok.

 

I feel like the ability to respec heals is just as much reason to bring scoundrel/operative DPS in ranked. My understanding is that has seen a pretty nice buff anyway, and when it comes to stalling there's nothing like a stealth class to keep that door clear. Especially a stealth class with an AoE mez and a short CD grenade to interrupt if necessary. Scoundrel DPS in general just offers you a ton more tactical flexibility just because of stealth, and the new roll will make them very good for stopping caps in CW openings as well, which as we all know is pretty much the key to winning CW in ranked games. In Huttball they can respec to much better mobile healers than us.

 

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line makes them a decent ball carrier since they can't be pulled into the fire or rooted, with that ability but I think that would tend to make vanguard tanks viable as carriers over mercs. They're less squishy than we are, especially with the changes to shield in 2.0, have a leap as well as HtL. I mean you guys aren't trying to use AP VGs in ranked now, and Assault VGs are no more squishier really than DPS commandos. Of course that's assuming VGs remain viable DPS in the new meta, but if you're already bringing them there's no need to bring a commando DPS for this feature alone.

 

 

The thing with electronet is that its cooldown pretty much means that, for me, it's going to need to be an ability which can consistently provide a turning point in a match, and since the most useful utility of it can be undone by a CC trinket, I'm just not sure how viable this is going to make us in ranked. It LOOKS pretty good on paper outside of the cooldown, but that cooldown makes it very clutch. Once people know to look for it, you might as well be telling your healers (hey they're focusing me!) and people are seeming pretty sturdy under focused healing in 2.0. I saw that ranked game you guys did on the PTS with ND and I was amazed the stuff people can live through now.

 

On VS defense, I've already noted that a scoundrel DPS can also respec to a very good healer, and my understanding from only half paying attention to healer discussions is scoundrel heals are nothing to sneeze at. They also provide, as I said, one more stealther to hold doors, and I don't have to tell you how helpful that is in VS. Nevermind the tactical flexibility they offer on other maps.

 

Remember the question is not really "why bring them?" but "why bring them over <class>?". Think about your ranked team for a moment. If I recall right you guys actually use several different compositions, but in any of those compositions who are you going to slot out for a merc? A DPS having utility (and the ability to competently respec to heals is definitely a form of utility in the current meta) is most certainly important, but the DPS still has to DPS. Whose damage (and utility) are you willing to replace for electro net? In the current meta it's actually detrimental to your team to bring a merc/commando in a DPS role, and sub par even in a healing role, though I know there are some healers that at least can make it work. While the changes make us less of a liability, I don't know how much yet, and of course after a year I'm not the most optimistic guy.

 

Snipers are good, no arguing that, one might even say that as of right now they are overtuned, especially lethality, which is putting out ridiculous numbers, though much of that can be explained due to PTS gear disparity and the nature of the class (AOE dot spec, lethality operatives were putting up insane numbers as well but you would never want to bring one of those to ranked)

 

But there is no rule saying you must bring either a sniper or a merc. Its not out of the question to bring both. I listed a few things which can potentially make mercs a valuable asset in ranked pvp, things which snipers do not offer and you basically ignored them.

 

I will admit that I'm not an expert at mercenary or sniper. But from an outsiders perspective looking in, it looks like mercenaries have a ton of tools that will make them a pain to kill in 2.0. They already had some decent tools, such as the best knockback in the game, a decent insta cast heal, as well as some more typical stuff like stuns and a 30m cc. But now with hydraulic overrides and kolto bomb, as well as being a heavy armor class, they are going to be a pain to take down.

 

That last bit must be about merc healers. Our 30m CC is a 2s hard cast outside of once every 2 minutes (90 seconds in 2.0 if you spec gunnery), and our stun is 10m which is unfortunate. Heavy Armor has never been all that impressive. My Focus Sentinel has more Damage Reduction, before any defensive cooldowns are used, than my Commando. The knockback slows and doesn't root so there's a question of whether or not sniper's is better, and while it knocks back further than sage knockback, and is AoE instead of conal, sage knockback is much longer range since that cone extends so far.

 

For a healing spot the question is, will you bring them over a sage or a scoundrel. For a DPS spec will you bring them over any other class and why? That's the real rub. If you dropped 2.0 commando (the skills and abilities not the level 55) into the game today there might be a reason to bring them. Everyone else got buffed too, and being all pessimistic, I don't think our buffs have noticeably moved us up when we compare to all the other buffs others have gotten.

Edited March 28, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

... For a DPS spec will you bring them over any other class and why? That's the real rub. If you dropped 2.0 commando (the skills and abilities not the level 55) into the game today there might be a reason to bring them. Everyone else got buffed too, and being all pessimistic, I don't think our buffs have noticeably moved us up when we compare to all the other buffs others have gotten.

 

BINGO!!

 

This is my issue. They do too little damage. Merc/Coms (as DPS) are the opposite of threatening. They are a turret class which means they rate a 1 out of 10 on the mobility scale. Their core damage spec requires that they not move in order to do meh damage. Their mobile spec (assault/pyro) lets them move but they still do meh damage.

 

They have few CCs and the new Electro Net approachs Merc/Comms (DPS) as though they are mobile classes, they're not, they're turrets. If someone is going to be a turret they should pump out a ton of damage. They are "Heavy Weapons Guy." They should only be susceptible to a class that can get the jump on them and bust out a ton of INITIAL damage (stealth classes). Other than that, if they regroup, you should be in for a hell of a fight.

 

As it stands now, Sniper/GS is currently "Heavy Weapons Guy". They are susceptible to the stealth specs. However, if they regrouped quickly when jumped, the stealth classes have a fight on their hands. All other classes must learn to LoS and treat the GS/Sniper as the open field danger that they are. - not the case with Merc/Comms.

 

If Merc/Comms are going to have so little damage, then they need to have more CC. If they are going to have so little CC, then they need a crap ton more damage.

 

The problem is that if they "fix" Merc/Comms in either respect, then they are simply nothing more than a GS/Sniper in a different skin. So there lies another problem, brining us to:

 

• DPS Merc/Comm has no role
  
• DPS Merc/Comm has no DPS
  
• DPS Merc/Comm has no CC
  
• DPS Merc/Comm has the worst mitigation in the game
  

 

How about this, make them the AOE class. Give them abilities that do damage that jumps from player to player. Does X damage to player 1. Does X+N to player 1 if player 2 is within 5 yards of player 1...if player 1 and 2 are within 5 yds of each other or the Merc/Comm, then does X+N1 to player 2...and so on.

 

Make them weak 1 v 1. But if it's a 1 v 2, make it that more likely that the Merc/Comm will win. How do you beat them in this case? Take the fight somewhere else (make them chase you)...or send in a stealth class...or a JK/SW that does a ton of internal damage (not mitigated by armor).

 

...this sort of sounds like what they are now, but the AoE is currently boo, and the direct damage they are capable of is more of an irritant.

 

Sigh...whatever, BW (has already admitted that they don't play the class) is making the dumb changes that they are going to make and everyone in the Merc/Comm threads and forums is basically jerk-ing themselves thinking that their 2 ft ladder is going to let them reach as high as the 12 ft ladder will.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Ossos

Sigh.....

 

From a healing point of view were worse in 2.0 then live for PVP why? literally because scoundrels and sages got buffed so above and beyond us. Before it was our ability to stay alive longer than a scoundrel or sage( even then that was very rare needed full resolve our shield both adrenals and the ammo to heal up). In 2.0 Sages and scoundrels crush us in pure Hps and have closed the gap in terms of staying alive or even surpass it. The Alacrity changes benefits mandos the least out of the 3 healers,so we still run into major ammo issues during heavy healing fights,while we also have the worst healing regain when our resources drop. Our talent tree is even horrible as we have to waste points to get to an actual useful talent for our trauma probe. Hold the line is really helpful for huttball when it comes to positioning and having to spot carry the ball but thats about it since we cant cast while moving and since vanguards got this baseline aswell they're going to have more use out of it. Electronet is one of the most overhyped abilites to date imo, it can stopped with the cc breaker and it doesnt work on ppl that are already using a Resilence, force speed(healers), hold the line etc.

 

We are still the easiest healer to shutdown seeing that our strongest healing moves are both casted. and if adv med probe is interupted we can't even get off a proper rotation off and its going to hurt our ammo big time if we cast a med probe without the buff.

 

Our top tier ability Bacta Infusion should be the reason people say * I wish I had that on my sage/scoundrel* atm it heals for craps slighty higher then Emergency probe and far less then Force mend.

 

Kolto Bomb another over hyped ability that personally ticks me off when ppl say it has such a low cd and it heals 4 ppl has a 3 sec slow attached to it and gives a 3% healing buff to anyone it touched... for starters this move heals for crap its truly only useful when it crits not to mention we have to aim it every single time. the main issues i have with this move is it's hard to fit in during heavy healing fights in pvp simply b/c it hurts ammo more then it heals imo

 

On a side note related to dps mandos, they're the worse offhealer out of the 3 classes b/c of resource managment

not to mention the 9 sec cd on adv med probe

 

So imo were less viable in 2.0 then we are live because of the buffs sages and scoundrel received.

Electronet, despite being on a long cooldown, could be a huge help in terms of burning down targets. In ranked, when you are fighting in a large battle, one kill could make all the difference and electronet is absolutely a game changing ability.

 

Snipers don't have an ability like electro net, which can completely change the course of a game by using it to make a healer extremely vulnerable.

 

I give good healers (actually just players) 2 days max to figure out how to deal with electro-net. Everyone else will have it figured out in the first week. If they don't, then they're just bad. And the long cooldown turns it from mildly annoying, to a whimsical novelty.

I will, as always, bow to Donna's opinions when it comes to PVP Commando healers as she's the best at that I know.

I will admit that I'm not an expert at mercenary or sniper. But from an outsiders perspective looking in, it looks like mercenaries have a ton of tools that will make them a pain to kill in 2.0. They already had some decent tools, such as the best knockback in the game, a decent insta cast heal, as well as some more typical stuff like stuns and a 30m cc. But now with hydraulic overrides and kolto bomb, as well as being a heavy armor class, they are going to be a pain to take down.

 

I sincerely thank you for your comments, but as you said, "from an outsider looking in". The merc/ commandos do SEEM like they would be a great class for PVP, but in reality, they are still at a disadvantage. They seem to have a nice bag of tricks but they really don't all come together to provide a solid role for the commando. We are easily out healed or out DPSed by other classes on a consistent basis.

We have a stealth probe you say? Sure the stealth probe is nice, but that that just means in the off chance we land it on a stealther we know our *** is going to be handed to us a few seconds earlier. It might be different if we could actually kill the assassin or operative 1 on 1 when we found them.

30m CC? It's a soft CC and with the exorbant use of dots it is mostly useless or it never fails that some saber jocky tags them right after CC, now freeing them to finish your beat down with a full resolve bar.

Our knock back, pretty cool on Voidstar and huttball, but mostly it just gives those jump-smashers range for another jump at you. The sniper can at least root at range. They already nerfed our cryo grenade range so we can't freeze them at range anymore.

Heavy armor? I wish it functioned like the other heavy armor classes. It just looks cool, but as far as providing protection? It offers the same protection as a worn out Jawa robe. Our defensive shield, someone actually called it a commando version of "I win shield", lol that was a good one. Even if I pop that it just means I die one second later than normal.

Don't get me wrong, I love my commando, it is my main and I have gone through the gear grind a few times now (BW I still hate you for that.), but any one who plays other classes extensively and plays a commando can't seriously think it is on par with other classes for PVP.

 

I have topped the charts one time or another as both healer and a DPS, but in those rare cases I was largly left alone. Other classes can still put up big numbers even under duress. Is it just about the numbers? No. Utility can play an even bigger part in a win. But what does the commando REALLY bring to the table that isn't provided by another class in a better all around package. I was AMAZED when I rolled a shadow and a scoundrel at how many instant cast skills they had compared to a commando. Right now, our heavy reliance on cast skills is what holds the commando back. I am looking forward to the changes that 2.0 brings, but other classes are getting up grades too, so in the end, I think it just maintains the status quo with commandos being last in the pecking order.

 

I wonder, how often do you see a commando/merc in a WZ on the other team and think,"awe crap" I bet not very often. Or how often have you gotten beat down by a commando 1v1? If you did, you probably suck, or they were well geared and you just mostly suck. Now not every class is going to be awesome 1v1, I get that, but when it comes to the commando/merc, given our current skill sets, it is always an up hill battle.

 

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when the vast majority or the SWTOR community, in countless posts, have all basically said how this class needs some help, then I would hope that BW start listening or at least take a serious look into the matter.

 

Help me 2.0, your my only hope! (but sadly, I'm not optimistic)

 

<edit> I also agree with a lot of the last few posts above, excellent comments.

Edited March 28, 2013 by ChicagoBearsFan

Help me 2.0, your my only hope!

 

As a die hard Packer fanatic, I absolutely HATE agreeing with a "Bears fan" on anything...however, that was a solid post. Kudos to you...but the Bears still suck