Cant believe this thread is still going. I got banned twice for replying in this thread. Good memories. Love playing against premades. Like hearing their virtual tears as we pug stomp them all over the map. 65% win rate as solo queuer.

 

Jenna'syyde aka Pro Solo Queuer

I know, right? I have 3 infractions, probably all from this thread and the numerous pages that got deleted.

 

I can't believe this isn't front page today. You'd almost think intelligent people play this game! Bumping because we know better!

Edited December 14, 2012 by Arlanon

Red Eclipse, 15 games in a row during prime time. Won only one. The republic is fielding premades over and over again. I am sick of this. Just a game, lord of the drinks, tactical wookes, dxun rising. Jeez it must be a good thing to play easy mode republic these days. Edited December 15, 2012 by NoTomorrow

Lol at the people saying everyone against the current system is stupid. You must be beyond ignorant if you can not even see that there is a problem with the current system for both casual players and for hardcore players that want competition.

 

Do you really believe that the average person new to 50 pvp will stick around after getting pugstomped again and again? Sure they will be a weight on their team no matter what but at least with premade matching they wouldn't get completely stomped most matches.

 

Do you really believe that most good pvp'rs enjoy pugstomping over and over and over again?

 

Newsflash.... you probably suck at pvp and you have finally found a game with a low enough softcap for skill, large enough gear imbalance, healer/guard set ups, premades accounting for half of a team, and no real matching system to speak of. So you finally feel like a good player. You are not and you never will be as long as the extent of your experience is pugstomping. Support premade matching and actually become a good pvpr.

Lol at the people saying everyone against the current system is stupid. You must be beyond ignorant if you can not even see that there is a problem with the current system for both casual players and for hardcore players that want competition.

 

Do you really believe that the average person new to 50 pvp will stick around after getting pugstomped again and again? Sure they will be a weight on their team no matter what but at least with premade matching they wouldn't get completely stomped most matches.

 

Do you really believe that most good pvp'rs enjoy pugstomping over and over and over again?

 

Newsflash.... you probably suck at pvp and you have finally found a game with a low enough softcap for skill, large enough gear imbalance, healer/guard set ups, premades accounting for half of a team, and no real matching system to speak of. So you finally feel like a good player. You are not and you never will be as long as the extent of your experience is pugstomping. Support premade matching and actually become a good pvpr.

 

I agree totally with your point with new players not wanting to stick around. The premades are out of control on my server, they are now running non stop gearing up all their alts. I highly doubt any F2P players will buy the unlocks and if pvp is their game i doubt that they will sub with the current set up, the stuns and the premades are way out of control.

Red Eclipse, 15 games in a row during prime time. Won only one. The republic is fielding premades over and over again. I am sick of this. Just a game, lord of the drinks, tactical wookes, dxun rising. Jeez it must be a good thing to play easy mode republic these days.

 

2 reality check premades, 2 drop it like its hoth premades, at least one spaceballs premade, peace is a lie premade, imps are not fielding premades?

Of course this is an issue. It drives away new players, yet the same old premades never go away. What pages were deleted from this thread and why? An infraction for what exactly? I am curious.

Of course this is an issue. It drives away new players, yet the same old premades never go away. What pages were deleted from this thread and why? An infraction for what exactly? I am curious.

 

Your right about it driving away players, I was able to get 2 of my friends to do the F2P thing, they like to PVP and when they tried the pvp in this game their thoughts were 1. the CC is not fun and 2. the premades are just stupid and not fair. sadly to say they will not sub to this game nor are they still playing this game, they are now playing black ops 2 and will never come back to this game. They are really big fans of Star wars and they loved KOTOR. BW will never learn from their mistakes sadly and they will never realize a fustrated customer is likley an unsubbing customer.

You must be beyond ignorant if you can not even see that there is a problem with the current system for both casual players and for hardcore players that want competition.

.

 

 

They do see it. Hell, they depend on it.

 

It's obvious -- the same type of "person" who fears competition is the same one who spends every moment lobbying against a legitimate PreMade bracket and/or matchmaking system.

 

They're scared of facing other PreMades. That's part of why many of them had to run to make a premade to begin with.

 

And they don't want to feel that way again -- being in a PreMade and farming PUGs lets them tell themselves they're good. And I suspect winning in a video game lets them feel things they can't get in real life.

 

(just imagine the real life of a FOTM PreMade OP fully geared farmer. Ugh.)

Just a quick update on this increasingly arid thread.

 

I managed to convince a few of my friends who used to play SWTOR PvP but are all avid GW2 PvP'ers now, to come back and try F2P PvP for a while. We played for a few hours and their impression was:

 

1. They don't want to run into server best premades in match after match.

2. They don't want gear gap to impact their performance (GW2 has no gear gap now)

3. They don't want to play without cross-server queues and a reasonable match-making system.

4. They don't want to play a game with dead ranked and no tournament ladders and guild v guild matches.

4. They thought cc was out of control.

 

We played as a premade team but it wasn't optimal by far because they were wearing outdated gear (Champion, Battlemaster) and I only had a few EWH pieces myself and our team did not have a tank. In fact we did not have any OP classes we had a Sage healer, an Assault Commando DPS, a Sharpshooter Gunslinger and a Balance Sage.

As such we won some matches, lost some matches but it was really annoying when we had to go against the server best premades literally like 5 or 6 times in a row.

 

Overall, their impression was that SWTOR PvP was just not well-designed enough for them, it suffers from a myriad of problems, has lackluster rewards, doesn't reward serious competition and overall encourages a playstyle that is not fun for either casuals or serious, hardcore PvP'ers.

 

So premade, cc, ranked warzones, xserver problems aside, my biggest concern is that SWTOR PvP just simply does not have enough appeal for new players. Already established, well-geared players who love easy kills and easy victories and imbalanced matches can't make up a playerbase forever.

 

And the funniest part is when they preach that "oh we all had to go through the stomping at 50 suck it up until you can stomp others", they rarely if ever actually go through that process. They farm gear for their alts with their valor 70,80,90 characters and send it over via legacy gear and skip the most painful part right off the bat.

 

Do we really want to cater to these people at the cost of losing many many more potential players?

Just a quick update on this increasingly arid thread.

1. They don't want to run into server best premades in match after match.

2. They don't want gear gap to impact their performance (GW2 has no gear gap now)

3. They don't want to play without cross-server queues and a reasonable match-making system.

4. They don't want to play a game with dead ranked and no tournament ladders and guild v guild matches.

4. They thought cc was out of control.

Do we really want to cater to these people at the cost of losing many many more potential players?

 

I have lvl 50 toons in both factions and when I queue it's premades or partial premades versus some of the saddest recruit geared solo players 4 out of 5 matches. But that 5th match when it's pug vs pug is so fun due to the random nature that I keep playing.

 

Yes, I have been offered worthwhile premade teams to join but I really don't want to get on a headset and play a set position or specific task. It would be so much less frustrating if the developers simply improved their matching system. For those of us that follow these threads we can agree that the current system does a fill around a larger group.

Longest thread ever! Don't even know what all the content covers but this is obviously a controversial topic. Just want to throw my vote in for restricting access to non-ranked warzones. They made ranked warzones for a reason. 4-mans can go play there if they want. And we all know what really happens...two 4-mans get together, either from the same guild or two allied guilds, and it's pretty much a wipe for the poor pug from the get go. No point in even sticking around for such games sadly. Send any 4-man or above to ranked I say!

lol only thing killing regular warzones are the masses of bads.

 

More like the gear is unbalanced currently which they are working on to fix.

Longest thread ever! Don't even know what all the content covers but this is obviously a controversial topic. Just want to throw my vote in for restricting access to non-ranked warzones. They made ranked warzones for a reason. 4-mans can go play there if they want. And we all know what really happens...two 4-mans get together, either from the same guild or two allied guilds, and it's pretty much a wipe for the poor pug from the get go. No point in even sticking around for such games sadly. Send any 4-man or above to ranked I say!

 

I agree and alot of others including myself have suggested it. The biggest issue with ranked right now is there is no cross server pvp que so the folks queing up for ranked will wait most of the day just for one game. Alot of people are turned off from pvping due to the overly excessive CC's and the premades. BW really needs to fix this to retain subs.

If running into a good premade in non-regular warzones wasn't difficult enough to handle how unlucky should I be that I ran into TWO premades in the same team, unfortunately our team didn't have anyone above lvl 35 and the match ended in no time. They should make it so that when you queue group you will get matched with and against other groups/premades and not with those who queued solo, you know like a different stance.

Longest thread ever! Don't even know what all the content covers but this is obviously a controversial topic. Just want to throw my vote in for restricting access to non-ranked warzones. They made ranked warzones for a reason. 4-mans can go play there if they want. And we all know what really happens...two 4-mans get together, either from the same guild or two allied guilds, and it's pretty much a wipe for the poor pug from the get go. No point in even sticking around for such games sadly. Send any 4-man or above to ranked I say!

 

ranked warzones are a joke. there is no incentive to do them, the 8 man requirement is massively restrictive, the overall pool of players doing ranked is continuing to shrink, and we are still in preseason.

 

if bioware fixes ranked pvp and class balance then this whole issue will sort itself out.

Edited December 19, 2012 by cashogy

Seems most players are unhappy with the WZ of 8 vs 8 players. And I agree its a dumb system boxing in 8 vs 8 players in a WZ, it becomes real easily predictable who will win and you cant do anything about it, since your boxed in. Add the possibility that either part of the players can be a fully balanced premade team too, and youll se how little playerskill can add to the equation. And theres is no playerskill to talk about since we got "expertise" instead.

 

You need open space pvp areas like the oulaw den or ilum, so please just add pvp missions in these areas so you can earn comms/medals by visiting these areas too!!! its an easy fix!!!

 

Why dont we hear anything from Bioware of comming changes?

Why dont we hear anything from Bioware of comming changes?

 

because they have no coming changes to tell us about

soon

 

/5char

ranked warzones are a joke. there is no incentive to do them, the 8 man requirement is massively restrictive, the overall pool of players doing ranked is continuing to shrink, and we are still in preseason.

 

if bioware fixes ranked pvp and class balance then this whole issue will sort itself out.

 

the number of teams/guilds that queue for ranked is on the rise again on JC. it's not good by any means, but it's on the rise. there are 3 or 4 imp guilds and 4 or so rep guilds that do queue and aren't chickens with their heads cut off. there are a few lower tier guilds also trying to get into it. granted, we're coming off an all time low, but the past couple weeks have actually seen a spike -- at least that's what it looks like from my perspective.

The goal of this game is not to allow "care bears" to run around winning warzones to make them feel better about themselves. The game provides warzones to fight other players and that is their only job here... the job is not to make sure that everyone is able to win and everyone gets their "trophies" and feels like they are special.

 

If you want to get better at warzones I would encourage you to do a couple of things:

 

Work On Your Gear

The better the gear the better chance you have. A lot of those overpowered players in their "pre-mades" have put in a lot of time and effort to get their gear, why should it be any different for anyone else? We have all done it... and yes, I have endured PUGing warzones for an entire day losing most matches but in the end my reward was another piece of gear that puts me closer to my goal(s).

 

Join a Guild

Yes, that's right. Maybe if you socialize a little you can find like-minded people to queue with... I understand that some people want to be anti-social and guess what? The price you pay for not wanting to join guilds or be social is that you get to PUG warzones by yourself all the time. There is a very simple solution to it but if you refuse than there really isn't anything I can do about it but I'd love to stop hearing you complain.

 

Realize You Don't Win Them All

I understand that a lot of you grew up in the "participation trophy" / "no dodgeball since it hurts feelings" era of education and because of this you expect everything in life to be a level playing field but that is sadly not reality. There are always winners and always losers and you just need to keep working at getting better. Sadly a lot of the PUGs I have played with (and probably some people on this thread) won't be any better even with good gear. These people won't even realize it's them... they will blame the game, the warzone or the teammates and never realize they are just NOT GOOD.

 

For anyone complaining on this thread (or the 15 other threads on the same topic) I would suggest you direct all of your negative, whiny energy towards improving your play-style, gearing your toon up and joining a guild. A month from now if you have done that you will probably have forgotten all your ************ and will be one of the people that everyone here is complaining about. People just need to take responsibility for getting better... it won't be handed to you regardless of what your parents tell you.

Holy goose. So much flawed logic and sentiments in one post that there was no recourse but to respond.

 

1. Your introduction.

 

This has nothing to to about carebears or anything like it. It has to do with creating an equal chance to win or lose, as close to it as one can.

 

Allowing premade groups to team versus a group of random people is not an equal chance, it's about stacking the chance in favor of the premade group.

 

2. Work on your gear

 

So your basic sentiment is that you, yourself, fought and lost against all these premades. But in the end you got your gear and your team. So now it is your turn to wield the sword of injustice? By the same logic, you also then, believe that if someone steals from you, you can steal from someone else?

 

2. Join a guild

 

So basically, find people to create premade groups to pvp with. In turn, not solving the problem, just become a part of the problem (beneficial side).

 

3. Realize that you don't win them all

 

I see nothing wrong here. Except that based on your other information, it's quite clear that you don't look at this from a perspective of solo queuing. Which makes it very hard to tell what you actually mean. I choose to interpret it as "Team up or lose sucker!"

 

You can't win them all. It's a team based game. There's different skill level among players, there's also different gear level among players. You can't control these unless you play with a team.

 

And there's the kicker, that's the factor you seem to forget, you create premade teams to control the skill and the gear. Which is why allowing premade groups to play versus groups of random players terribly unfair.

 

The solution is really simply, group premade teams vs premade teams. Equal footprints for everyone involved. And leave solo queue for the solo queuers.

 

Should be perfect for everyone involved, except you. Because it's quite clear that you think that if you've gone through something, unfair or not, everyone else should do the same as well. My god. If the world worked that way, we'd still be in the stone age.

The solution is really simply, group premade teams vs premade teams. Equal footprints for everyone involved. And leave solo queue for the solo queuers.

 

Should be perfect for everyone involved, except you. Because it's quite clear that you think that if you've gone through something, unfair or not, everyone else should do the same as well. My god. If the world worked that way, we'd still be in the stone age.

 

That's a terrible solution.

 

Premades are not all equal, hell, they aren't even all the same size! Splitting premades and soloers in to different queues would be a massive fail. All it does is split the problem in two. The warzones would still be unbalanced. The gear levels would still be different. The skill levels would still be different. Nothing would change except you'd realise you were wrong, but you'd ignore that and focus on something else.

 

 

The solution is global ranking and matchmaking system. Just how ranked works now, but apply it to absolutely everyone. Then balance teams according to individual player's ranking. A proper ranking and matchmaking system will take care of gear imbalance, skill imbalance and premade balance as long as it applies to everyone.

 

Every other solution suggested in this thread is half-arsed in comparison.

That's a terrible solution.

 

Premades are not all equal, hell, they aren't even all the same size! Splitting premades and soloers in to different queues would be a massive fail. All it does is split the problem in two. The warzones would still be unbalanced. The gear levels would still be different. The skill levels would still be different. Nothing would change except you'd realise you were wrong, but you'd ignore that and focus on something else.

 

 

The solution is global ranking and matchmaking system. Just how ranked works now, but apply it to absolutely everyone. Then balance teams according to individual player's ranking. A proper ranking and matchmaking system will take care of gear imbalance, skill imbalance and premade balance as long as it applies to everyone.

 

Every other solution suggested in this thread is half-arsed in comparison.

 

You fail to realize that skill and gear will always be different. However who you play with can be controlled. So you can leave skill and gear to be random. But you can at least make the premise of that fight, be fair.

 

I find it rather amusing that you're using the argument against premade vs solo (fairness), as an argument to prevent premades vs premades. Premades are awfully much more close to eachother than they are versus solo queuers.

 

Funny that you obviously never realized so yourself.

Premades are awfully much more close to eachother than they are versus solo queuers..

 

In your opinion.

 

Your incorrect opinion, as most people who "premade" also solo queue. They're the same people. And then, most premades aren't the elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team of your imagination, but 2 to 4 friends who queued to play the game together.

 

Anstalt is totally correct with his matchmaking point. It balances for diffrences in gear, skill, and increased effectiveness through a tendency to premade. It would match you against people who are around your effectiveness (whatever the sources of that level of effectiveness), so giving you an around even chance to win. No more roflstomping.

In your opinion.

 

Your incorrect opinion, as most people who "premade" also solo queue. They're the same people. And then, most premades aren't the elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team of your imagination, but 2 to 4 friends who queued to play the game together.

 

Anstalt is totally correct with his matchmaking point. It balances for diffrences in gear, skill, and increased effectiveness through a tendency to premade. It would match you against people who are around your effectiveness (whatever the sources of that level of effectiveness), so giving you an around even chance to win. No more roflstomping.

 

No, not in my opinion. They're closer, because as a starting point they're 4 people known to each other. And that is closer than 8 random people. That is a undeniable fact.

 

Those 2-4 friends that want to play together is a non issue. In my personal experience you'll not notice them over 8 totally random people. It is the "elite optimum-composition max-gear voice-comms SAS team" that stomp anything and everything that is a problem. If you've ever been one out of the randoms in such a premade, you'll quickly realize that PVP just turned into a joke. It's piss easy. No fun. And definitely no fun for the 8 randoms in the opposing team.

 

I'm not saying that they shouldn't create a proper matchmaking system. I'm saying they should immediately redo/remove the current situation with "premades". And that can't be done unless they remove the ability all together, or make certain that 2x4 people are matched up against 2x4 people. Premade vs premade in other words.

Edited December 19, 2012 by megoix