8 man ops and those flaming czerka flashppoints all need a serious nerf in the hard mode department.

No I'm not an incompetent noob, yes I know how to play.

 

The ops work fine in 16 man, but frankly the 8 man mechanics need to be toned down.

Building a 16 man mechanic then trying to shoehorn it into an 8 man clearly doesn't work.

 

I am sick to death of this impossible crap.

 

 

Deposit your flames below

but I like the czerka flashpoints as they are

They are just too punishing unless you overgear the hell out of them and I'm sick of things being designed that way.

mmm troll?

No I really feel that way

 

If I were trolling I'd have come up with something better

I was able to tank Czerka successfully on my Shadow, Guardian and PT when they first came out. I was sitting around 30k to 34k health around that time.

 

I healed both of them on my Sorc and Sage sitting at around 26k HP starting out and most recently on my Operative which hit 55 a few weeks ago.

 

Not even going to mention my DPS toons. Point is, they are only difficult if you make them difficult. I'll give you an example. An apparent fresh 55 Vanguard sitting at around 30k health decides to tank the desert boss without moving him to the barrels. We died probably 2 times before he got it right AFTER we explained it to him (with me taunting the boss to the barrel on my Shadow). Same thing with the other boss in the simulation zone. We explained the fights and eventually he got it. Will he wipe 2-3 times again? Only if someone in the group does not know the mechanics.

 

These are easy fights with the exception of the droid in the water which can be a pain to heal but it can be done.

 

HM 8 Man ops is different story. They are meant to be challenging and they are but if you work as a team can be done without much issue at all.

8 man ops and those flaming czerka flashppoints all need a serious nerf in the hard mode department.

No I'm not an incompetent noob, yes I know how to play.

 

The ops work fine in 16 man, but frankly the 8 man mechanics need to be toned down.

Building a 16 man mechanic then trying to shoehorn it into an 8 man clearly doesn't work.

 

I am sick to death of this impossible crap.

 

 

Deposit your flames below

 

0/10 If you think the HM OPS are too hard; you need a new game. This game needs harder content along the lines of NiM EC Kephess, NiM DG's, NiM OP 9, NiM Thrasher, and NiM Styrak. Every thing else in this game is faceroll easy and quite frankly boring after the first clear of it.

I'm not talking about NiM stuff, thats supposed to be harder than hell.

 

The hard modes need to be nerfed

The issue isn't the flashpoints or the operations but rather the idiots in the PUG groups.

 

The flashpoints and operations can be difficult to impossible with some of the PUGs you get through GF or on fleet but these things are not difficult with a competent group. The gear requirements shown for each flash point or operation are generally pretty accurate though people insist on ignoring them.

 

We don't need the game to be any easier than it already is. We need people to learn how to play.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Spamfritter

Hmmmm.... HARD Modes being hard....

They are just too punishing unless you overgear the hell out of them and I'm sick of things being designed that way.

 

No, it's somewhat challenging to do them with on-level gear. You just have to actually pay attention to the mechanics. Please don't make this game any easier than it already is.

The CZ HM FPs are not hard at all, so long as those who participate know what to do and when to do it. I ran HM Meltdown two days ago with me tanking and a DPS veteran and two newbies and the run was CAKE. Why? Because the DPS vet and I gave good instructions and the newbies actually paid attention.

 

Same thing goes for HM Operations. The first few weeks of HM DF my Ops group struggled on Corruptor but we usually took him down, then the bug happened and we did not bother for two weeks. Instead we geared up by doing what we could in HM DF and made excellent progress in HM DP (three bosses are now easymode, struggling on Raptus). And after the patch we cleared HM DF for the first time: took us three attempts to take down Corruptor and we made steady progress on Bestia until the last attempt of the night we killed her.

 

Sorry but HMs are not meant to be /faceroll. With appropriate gear they should be challenging but doable with good execution. Fail to execute strategies and you will die horribly

The HM ops are really more about mechanics than gear. We've taken people in there in 69/72 mix gear and done just fine. It's really just about knowing how to handle the mechanics as they arise and being coordinated with everyone else. Seeing as the instances were designed for 72 and 75 gear, I don't think anyone is yet disgustingly overgeared for the content, and yet most guilds that got first and second week clears are now farming both instances in a single night.

 

The fights are challenging, but only because your group hasn't figured out exactly what needs to be done yet. Don't feel bad; we've all been there. I can tell you straight up that it's not a gear thing though. If you have full 72s, you're geared enough for both instances.

Edited November 14, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

I was able to tank Czerka successfully on my Shadow, Guardian and PT when they first came out. I was sitting around 30k to 34k health around that time.

I tanked them with my shadow and my vanguard; both at 27k-ish health and in 61/63 gear. The flashpoints are pretty easy once you get to know the mechanics of fights. They're even easier if you adhere to the old "don't stand in red circles" wisdom.

No I really feel that way

 

If I were trolling I'd have come up with something better

 

Then i'm gonna take the bait, one of my main concerns is about this game PvE content being wayyy too easy, its too easy to gear up, too easy to beat content at their recommended gear level, theres no challenge at all, only NiM modes are challenging and still the time to master and beat is nothig epic. But Devs keep nerfing FPs and OPs in a regular basis to the point runing them in HM is rollface.

 

If you are experiencing any kind of difficulty while runing HMs and you are geared at its recomended gear level i would suggest:

 

1) Make sure its not a PEBKAC issue (Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair), forums can help with that.

 

2) Make sure you leave brainless PUGs asap, i have found runing HM FPs with a friend and 2 companions is way more fun and productive than runing wih tanks that doesnt even know they have a taunt ability, healers that run out of force/energy on trash pulls, DPSs that spam autoattack and such

Edited November 14, 2013 by recsa

Maybe it's an issue with terminology. It's hard to criticize hard-modes for being hard, when their name would suggest that, that is the intent. In progression terms, "Hard" really means "Normal", so in that sense, maybe some encounters are a little out of whack with the general difficulty curve. For example, I wouldn't say the new flashpoints are "Hard", but in comparison to the other flashpoints in the hardmode bracket, they are a little harder.

I love the way 8 man HM/Nim ops work, less people there to pick up your slack and weeds out the good players from the ok players. 16 man is boring and complete over kill. When i see a guild ranting and raving about clearing everything on 16 man and all patting themselves on the back i sit there and think i wonder how many of you would fail on an 8 man HM. Long live 8 mans i hope they never change!

 

as for the flash points i have no comments they are easy enough as it is.

Edited November 14, 2013 by NumpTFlump

I actually think the level of difficulty is pretty good right now. Without question, though, some of the DF/DP HM bosses could use some dialling in when it comes to difficulty: some elements are super easy, some are over-hard.

 

For example, the DPS check on Nefra is comically easy, but the heal check can be difficult (and can be quite dependent on the group composition). It's similar for Corrupter Zero, Brontes, Tyrans and the Dread Council. Meanwhile, Bestia is a DPS check and Draxus is a co-ordination check, but relatively easy to heal if the dps and tanks do their jobs well. Overall, I'd say these operations are by and large a healer check, and groups without very good healers might struggle. (As an aside, I do think that the ops favor scoundrel/operative healers by a considerable margin, while sages and especially troopers can often struggle with energy management given the sustained healing requirements and the common need for spread group formations).

 

Ultimately, though, it comes down to the perennial problem with hard and nightmare mode raids: you need to be able to find eight good players. The law of averages says that any given group of eight is likely to contain one or more below-par players. So what does Bioware do? Take this into account and make HM raids completable by groups of mostly good players but where not all members are carrying their weight? That will make the hard modes faceroll easy for groups who aren't carrying weaker players and cause them to lose interest in the game. Or do you ensure that only groups full of good players can complete the content, thus causing HM raids to be nigh-impossible for pugs and "everybody gets a turn" social guilds? I actually don't know. My general preference is for the latter, but I'm fortunate enough to be part of a solid raid group. Maybe a tier between story and hard mode would work, but I can't see BioWare implementing that anytime soon.

There are no hard mode flashpoints, just ignorant and impatient groupies.

There are no hard mode flashpoints, just ignorant and impatient groupies.

 

there are hard mode flashpoints but they aren't really hard to do

 

For example, the DPS check on Nefra is comically easy, but the heal check can be difficult (and can be quite dependent on the group composition). It's similar for Corrupter Zero, Brontes, Tyrans and the Dread Council. Meanwhile, Bestia is a DPS check and Draxus is a co-ordination check, but relatively easy to heal if the dps and tanks do their jobs well. Overall, I'd say these operations are by and large a healer check, and groups without very good healers might struggle. (As an aside, I do think that the ops favor scoundrel/operative healers by a considerable margin, while sages and especially troopers can often struggle with energy management given the sustained healing requirements and the common need for spread group formations).

 

 

I agree with this. my main is currently a healing sorc, but I also field an operative who is basically a fill in for our second group and its so SO much easier to heal this fights on her, its not even funny. one little thing goes off less than perfectly and on my sorc, I'm sucking wind, even with 4 piece set bonus. moreover, there are hairy moments, especially on kite/movement heavy fights, where I literally cannot heal for second or 2 and it makes that much of a difference. operative? pfttt, no problem! movement - yes please, things go wrong, no problem, i can compensate! stealth rez has much shorter effective cooldown than combat rez as well.

 

I'm considering switching them around and keeping sorc as back up, making operative my main at this point. at least for DP and DF.

 

its not that these operations are too hard. I think the difficulty is for the most part - just right (minus the bugs, naturally) its that they favor certain group compositions/advanced classes significantly more than others.

They are just too punishing unless you overgear the hell out of them and I'm sick of things being designed that way.

 

Too Punishing? You have to use the mechanics, in HM Core Meltdown, you HAVE to have the desert boss break the sandstorm generators. Ive done HM Core Meltdown about 10 times now, It's easy if anything i want Nightmare Mode Czerka Flashpoints. THOSE would be a challenge!

I am sick to death of this impossible crap.

 

Deposit your flames below

 

Allow me to pour some gasoline on the much deserved flames here. As numerous posters have already stated, HM is supposed to be hard. It will get easier over time as more people understand the mechanics. The Czerka FPs, when they first came out, were apt to be failures as a pug run a lot because a lot of mediocre players came back to experience the content and didn't work the mechanics. Now I'd say that maybe 1/15 of the Czerkas I run end in complete group dissolution.

 

I think the HM operations are very appropriately tuned. The guilds that aspire to Nightmare clears and world/server firsts cleared them more or less the first week as expected, while most of the "casual" HM guilds took a few more weeks or are getting close now. Groups that are used to facerolling SM TFB/S&V weeklies for comms can and should struggle in HM ops.

 

I love the way 8 man HM/Nim ops work, less people there to pick up your slack and weeds out the good players from the ok players. 16 man is boring and complete over kill. When i see a guild ranting and raving about clearing everything on 16 man and all patting themselves on the back i sit there and think i wonder how many of you would fail on an 8 man HM. Long live 8 mans i hope they never change!.

 

This, a thousand times. We've been running 8 man just fine and last week decided to take some alts in to 16m HM. We pugged 3 or 4 dps, many of whom had never done HM past a boss or two. We one-shot everything up to Corruptor Zero until one of the pug dps decided to orbit the raid with his 10 stacks of concussion mine. After we assigned him to literally just sit on the boss until anti-gravity field, we cleared it just fine (bugged laser mines and all). The 16m HM content is hilariously easy compared to 8m. Now that I've experienced it, I truly wonder how many people are getting carried in 16m.

 

I'm considering switching them around and keeping sorc as back up, making operative my main at this point. at least for DP and DF.

 

its not that these operations are too hard. I think the difficulty is for the most part - just right (minus the bugs, naturally) its that they favor certain group compositions/advanced classes significantly more than others.

 

This, I don't get. I run this on a sorc healer main teamed with another operative healer and we have no problems. Operative mobility is already great, but static barriers save lives. I am really glad for his HoTs and 30% medpacks, but I know he's equally glad for my revivification for a ton of fights.

 

I'm not finding there to be a lot of mobility constraints on my sorc and I can mostly hang in one area (generally the middle) and heal besides moving out of bad. Probably the most "mobile" fight is actually Grob'thok, which everyone knows is a joke. Our operative healer could probably solo heal it without me.

 

This, I don't get. I run this on a sorc healer main teamed with another operative healer and we have no problems. Operative mobility is already great, but static barriers save lives. I am really glad for his HoTs and 30% medpacks, but I know he's equally glad for my revivification for a ton of fights.

 

I'm not finding there to be a lot of mobility constraints on my sorc and I can mostly hang in one area (generally the middle) and heal besides moving out of bad. Probably the most "mobile" fight is actually Grob'thok, which everyone knows is a joke. Our operative healer could probably solo heal it without me.

 

that's becasue you already run with an operative. our guild is extremely sorc heavy and when i'm on my main, both healers are sorcs. we do 8 mans, so there is pretty much no need for more than one person throwing barriers around, but loss of mobility is a lot more more notable, than on other content I've done. I find it that there is a lot more bad I have to get out of all the damn time (and that droid on Nefra just loooves targeting me) and people rarely stay as a clamp in the same space to get full benefit of revivification, se both of us end up using it far less often.

 

I'm not saying its not doable. obviously - it is.

 

I'm saying that its a lot more exhausting on me and my healing partner when we're both sorcs. Grob'thok is not a joke when you either have a new tank learning the timing on the kiting, or like what happened to us the other night - magnet doesn't spawn in a place it was supposed to so tank has to emergency kite him while we have to heal through the pipe smashes. its a LOT more doable to have combination of barriers and probes then barriers and... 2 rejuvenates every 6 seconds ...

 

I know we're not the most amazing out there, my guild is actually pretty casual. plus on a good week, we'll have 2 days for our progression group, most of the time, its one day a week per set group. but I'm not asking for encounters to be made easier. I'm just stating that they ARE easier when you have a different healing configuration from what we normally field (and have been fielding for a while)

Edited November 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

The point of HM and NiM is to be harder and harder as you progress. The goal is for you to develop better skills as a player not give you free loot. Spend the time reading and learning the fights, and learn your own class.

 

Also for those who keep saying 16 man is easier lol. 8 mans are much easier, now there are only a few fights that I will say are a little challenging on 8 man. Overall 16 mans are quite a bit harder.