i love this bizarre concept that any new player to the game will be at a disadvantage to all day one players or "premades" ...

Of course they will be. In ground PVP, do you think that level 10(30) isn't at disadvantage to level 29(54), and that players new to the game aren't at disadvantage to veterans?

 

and thus will not want to play the game ever again... if it worked like that then nobody would ever play except for the Day one / "premade" people...

You have a point there. Not everyone will give up, but some will (few? many? "some"? I don't know). Is that OK, or is that an issue? About that, see my previous post in this thread.

 

where does this concept come from?.. it defies logical sense, it totally assumes everybody will try it once, get shot down, and never try it again afterwards, never wanting to improve and work their way to the top like those before them...

I agree that if it assumes "everybody", then it is wrong. If it assumes "some", then in my humble opinion, it is right.

 

maybe it's just those that are whining just because they don't want to put in the effort that others have to upgrade their ships, improve their skills, and make parties of wingmen they can trust to watch their backs...

Again, about the last part (parties of wingmen) see my previous post here. About the other part, let me first quote your second post:

...while those that want a free ride to the top will still be whining that's it's unfair that they have to start at the bottom like everybody else...

They aren't whining that it's unfair to have to start at the bottom. They are "whining"(I use this word since it seems to be popular in counterarguments) because when the first day people started at the bottom, they did so - against other people starting at the bottom. When you start in these days at the bottom, you most likely do it against people at the top. And that is what seems unfair.

I've used the chat box that is provided and honestly it needs alot of work. Trying to communicate using that box is cluncky verse using voice communication which is alot more of a advantage. When you get whispered you can not reply as easily as in ground combat or normal content like you can in space. However just like ground combat you can bet I am calling incoming if I see it (map), but atleast I can tell what kind of attack is incoming once I see the incoming attacker.

 

I personally solo que which means I get what I get and have to make due with it. You will say que with friends that play at the same time or with guildmates. Unfortunately my playtimes don't warrant me to make enough friends to que because I am mutli-tasking in game, and in life dutys. I refuse to leave my guild that I joined when I was forced to transfer to join a strictly starfighter guild when my bag of tricks include all of the games content, not just 1 small portion. Besides of the 100 active members in the guild, only 3 of us have played it and the rest could care less about it because they don't like pvp and or the controls to use it need alot of help.

Are premades the new thing to complain about?

Premade does not equal automatic win.

 

Two days ago, faced a premade in an arena. At the end, I said in open, "Good job, team! We destroyed the premade 2-0!" And we didn't have 1 death in the two battles.

 

While I very rarely do Starfighter, isn't that not really helpful to be premade or not more so than ground PvP? Or did I miss something?

Edited January 1, 2014 by Jacen_Starsolo

People? In a group? Working together towards a common goal? In an MMO?

 

What perversion of nature is this? I demand the devs take the game offline immediately until this violation of gods plan can be patched out of this game and anybody who has ever queued for anything in a group be banned from ever playing any EA game ever again.

Somehow i posted twice here, ignore this. Edited January 1, 2014 by tekhiun

This is why they dont separate premade from pugs, most of the players just want an easy win. If they were playing against premades and winning less they would probably stop playing altogether, just sad imo.

 

Not entirely true. If you had separate queues, then people going into premade matches would lose people who then can only go into random teams. So they can't premake and mess things up in the solo queue.

 

But isn't this just a general PvP problem? Most people who lose a lot either don't care and keep sucking at it or quit cause their ego is hurt.

 

It's much better to have some play modes with objectives that can be had. SWTOR has just settled for domination and forced team death match. Huttbal and Voidstar are much more interesting even if some people hate them. But really they should get rid of the domination format altogether. It's the worst type of map in my view and it makes people get bored or stupid. Sadly it's been BW's favourite mode so far and it's the one mode that creates the most problems.

The sad part isn't that he can't/doesn't want to make friends. The sad part is calling people you play online with "friends".

 

This is such a ludicrous comment I can't even properly express it.

 

Considering the number of people who use the internet as a social outlet and the fact MMOs as a whole have a myriad of social tools I think you're in the minority with not considering people online friends just because they're online.

 

It's the year 2014 bro. You don't have to be sitting in the same room with someone to like them.

Don't like premades, form a premade or leave. I premade all day with a team of fully upgraded ships and voice chat. We never lose and it's fun smashing bad players and casuals with no or few ship upgrades and no voice chat. If you separate the queues, premades like mine (99.9% of all premades) will just stop queueing altogether rather than have to lose to better premades. BioWare needs to keep it like it is where premades like mine can farm easy comms on solo queuers like you. Like I said, if you don't like it form your own premade or stop playing. Whining will get you nothing but our smug disdain for your ilk.

Although I generally agree with your feelings on this, I still think it would be better to have random warzones where you can only q as solo and a separate q for premade teams. In the end there is a definite advantage to having both. What BW's problem is though in my view is that there isn't enough PvP going on to be able to separate it into different activities.

 

MMO players have very little tolerance to anything these days. No tolerance to waiting, no tolerance to being outplayed by teamwork, no tolerance for consequences of their actions/inactions, no tolerance for working toward goals and objectives, etc. etc. etc. And yes, this is a generalization and does not reflect every player, but it is both valid and appropriate generalization when talking about the wider player base of the genre we call MMOs.

 

This is not a Bioware problem, nor is it a problem in any way unique to this MMO.

 

It's a genre wide community play style problem that there is no way for Bioware to effectively address. If they separate the queues, people complain that queue times are too long. If they maintain a single queue, then players complain that they are getting rolled by premades.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Andryah

Honestly, people may love or hate GW1, but that game had a much better idea how to handle PvP and offer different formats for it.

 

^ This. I came directly from Guild Wars 1 to here, Every single PvP format was a premade group of some kind, (even in RA you could synch ) You had to be actually good to succeed, there wasn't a bolster, expertise, or any kind of gear gap. In all honesty, ToR could take some huge lessons from Guild Wars 1. But I digress.

 

Why gimp yourself by solo queuing in the first place?

 

Playing with the same folks (premade) you'll better understand their individual quirks, strengths and weaknesses. I encourage everyone to form groups, kick your own game up a notch, and take some responsibility. If you want to win at PvP of any kind, get a team and practice.

 

tldr:

Don't expect to queue, jump in and rack up wins VS someone who spent 5 minutes of effort. That's just a stupid mentality.

 

P.S. Since this was about Galactic Starfighter, I'll share a tip. A few of us are using tack balls, where we drilled into the ball itself, and put about a inch of threaded 8-32 rod, since there is no joystick support. Lil funky to get the hang of, but miles ahead of regular mouse control.

How do you even know if its a premade in GSF, you can't even see the guildnames!

 

Yeah there are probably a few premade groups out there but its not as bad as people seem to think, many times it just seems like "I keep losing it has to be a premade, can't possibly be just me or my teams fault we lost". Seriously though, people blow things too much out of proportions.

I can see how using VoIP might be an advantage in GSF. In warzones, using VoIP does what, give you 1 second headstart while calling incs? Solo players can still type in "inc 1 grass" as fast, if not a teeny bit slower than I can tell people over VoIP.

 

Problem with GSF is, if you're stationary near an enemy, you're dead. The only time when you can call incs by typing is when you're in spawn, and if you were guarding a satellite and are now in spawn, it's already too late. Being able to PTT and say it to groupmates is a big plus, since you don't have to be stationary for it, and can even do it during a dogfight.

 

Now I'm not saying that ban premades from GSF Solo Battle GSF. VoIP is used by what, 5% of the premades? 10? No reason to punish the 90% that don't. And there *are* ways to counter this. Generally if there's too little pressure on one sat, it means there's tons of incs on the other sats. Also there's the fact that you can see any enemy that has been identified on your teammates' sensors which makes it easier to find where the incs are. Finally, the icon for the sat starts blinking when enemies come too close.

 

There are ways to help this though. For one, they could put an in-built VoIP software, with the option to mute idiots who will just use it to trash-talk. Or they could make all enemies visible to your teammates' sensors appear to all of us on the map as red dots. Either one of these could mitigate the issue of players using VoIP in GSF.

 

But a separate Premades-only queue? Nope. Never gonna work.

How do you even know if its a premade in GSF, you can't even see the guildnames!

 

Yeah there are probably a few premade groups out there but its not as bad as people seem to think, many times it just seems like "I keep losing it has to be a premade, can't possibly be just me or my teams fault we lost". Seriously though, people blow things too much out of proportions.

To be honest, you have a point. I myself only assume that the same names in the same ships I mostly play against are a premade, but they may as well be just random people always queueing at the same time (and to explain, I don't mean this as sarcasm, I mean it genuinely). So when this issue comes up, I tend to generalize it as "matchmaking problem" rather than solely "premade problem".

 

Don't like premades, form a premade or leave. I premade all day with a team of fully upgraded ships and voice chat. We never lose and it's fun smashing bad players and casuals with no or few ship upgrades and no voice chat. If you separate the queues, premades like mine (99.9% of all premades) will just stop queueing altogether rather than have to lose to better premades. BioWare needs to keep it like it is where premades like mine can farm easy comms on solo queuers like you. Like I said, if you don't like it form your own premade or stop playing. Whining will get you nothing but our smug disdain for your ilk.

8/10, I actually smiled and would read again.

Not entirely true. If you had separate queues, then people going into premade matches would lose people who then can only go into random teams. So they can't premake and mess things up in the solo queue.

 

But isn't this just a general PvP problem? Most people who lose a lot either don't care and keep sucking at it or quit cause their ego is hurt.

 

It's much better to have some play modes with objectives that can be had. SWTOR has just settled for domination and forced team death match. Huttbal and Voidstar are much more interesting even if some people hate them. But really they should get rid of the domination format altogether. It's the worst type of map in my view and it makes people get bored or stupid. Sadly it's been BW's favourite mode so far and it's the one mode that creates the most problems.

 

Didn't quite get what you meant on your first paragraph could you rephrase it ?

 

I agree that objective is much more fun, even so in large scale pvp. However pugs don't usually play that kind of pvp and the majority of them just want to kill kill kill kill. THe ideal solution would be to have several different queues for different type of play styles, however there is not a single server where the population is high enough that splitting queues or having a selective matchmaking system would not increase queue time. The solution would be x-server queues, but as it has been stated by the devs it is something that seems very hard to be implemented at the moment. The result is then either your premade or you pug, and there is nothing challenging about either cause the final outcome is pretty much determined before poeple jump out of the spawning area for the first time.

 

At launch I was playing in one of the top premades of my server, the result was that people did emoticons with our names and if we turned out to be in that warzone people just left, either that or we would win the match within 2-3 minutes (unless we started defending on voidstar), the result was that the members of that premade got bored and left the game, I am the only one that's still playing. They didnt even bothered returning for RWZ as they were already invested in another games.

This is such a ludicrous comment I can't even properly express it.

 

Considering the number of people who use the internet as a social outlet and the fact MMOs as a whole have a myriad of social tools I think you're in the minority with not considering people online friends just because they're online.

 

It's the year 2014 bro. You don't have to be sitting in the same room with someone to like them.

Liking a person doesn't make them your friend. Buddy/acquaintance - sure. But a friend is someone who'd share the last slice of bread with you in time of need. Someone who considers you family. The average online acquaintance doesn't really qualify.

 

The vast majority of Internet relations would just post a frowny face, or donate 5 dollars to your cause, but that's about it (not speaking of exceptional cases when communities raise tens of thousands of dollars for healing sick children, or to help a wrongfully accused person defend themselves in court, but that's not an issue of online friendship - it's human decency).

Edited January 1, 2014 by Helig

To be honest, you have a point. I myself only assume that the same names in the same ships I mostly play against are a premade, but they may as well be just random people always queueing at the same time (and to explain, I don't mean this as sarcasm, I mean it genuinely). So when this issue comes up, I tend to generalize it as "matchmaking problem" rather than solely "premade problem".

 

Well, yeah, that's the basis of the entire problem in SWTOR PvP.

 

If I can get matched in a Pub v Pub match with one team having 3 healers, 1 tank and 2 off-healers, and my team having a single healer, and no premades to mess up MM on either side, there's something seriously wrong. We won the game, but it still sucks how we had to rain pain on their ball carrier for a full 2 minutes everytime they got the ball.

I agree with you OP, and everyone disagreeing are just weak, because they prefer to own randoms in an organised team and think they are really good, when in fact, they suck.

 

Now people who are skilled and are more interested in meaningful victories instead of thinking its ok to smash random players and it wont affect the game long term like it has on battlegrounds, will come here and say that premades should be pitted against other premade and randoms vs randoms on the argument of fairness.

 

But, its ok, cause these people wont have a game to play for alot longer. Enjoy those long queues guys. <3

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nemmar

I agree with you OP, and everyone disagreeing are just weak, because they prefer to own randoms in an organised team and thing they are really good, when in fact, they suck.

 

Now people who are skilled and are more interested in meaningful victories instead of thinking its ok to smash random players and it wont affect the game long term like it has on battlegrounds, will come here and say that premades should be pitted against other premade and randoms vs randoms on the argument of fairness.

 

But, its ok, cause these people wont have a game to play for alot longer. Enjoy those long queues guys. <3

 

So your logic is "It's horrible for people to be social and group together to have fun in PvP because you're terrible at PvP and prefer to be anti-social?"

 

That's some fail logic.

So your logic is "It's horrible for people to be social and group together to have fun in PvP because you're terrible at PvP and prefer to be anti-social?"

 

That's some fail logic.

 

The logic is

 

Premades should not be matched with pugs. period.

 

Is that so crazy? Too revolutionary for you to comprehend?

The logic is

 

Premades should not be matched with pugs. period.

 

Is that so crazy? Too revolutionary for you to comprehend?

 

Yes. Because Premades are not indestructible. This is a simple L2P issue, sorry you don't understand this.

Yes. Because Premades are not indestructible. This is a simple L2P issue, sorry you don't understand this.

 

Tell that to the people we destroyed in warhammer's Azazel server day after day until there were no destruction players left to fight. Our highly organized premade half warbands crushed destro zergs 3 to 4 times our numbers until most of them left, or rolled up on another server.

 

Premades are doing the same thing here, and in the end they'll kill off the thing they find fun. If the other side rarely wins, they won't continue to queue. It'll end up being just like rated WZs, the same 3 teams will only see each other.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Hambunctious

It has nothing to do with pre-mades. Blaming pre-mades is a convenient excuse and nothing more.

 

A pre-made group is one flight or 4 players which will be either a third or one half of the total players on a given side. On the off chance a sync queue is successful you might have another 2-4 players. You could have more than one group from different guilds/friends on a side but these are rare. I have seen on numerous occasions solo queued guild members of my own guild getting queued in the same fight on the same side and we are suddenly a pre-made without having queued as a group (in the eyes of some people anyway).

 

The big culprit is teamwork. Teamwork is what is "ruining" GSF for some players who, for whatever reason, believe that MMO's should be solo effort affairs. But teamwork doesn't require VOIP or even typing outside of the original 90 seconds or so you have before the match start. Teamwork in GSF is as simple and straightforward as being aware of where your team mates are, where the enemy is and what the objective of the match is.

 

The interface tells you where the enemy is and what objectives they are trying to take, as well as where your team mates are and where you can provide the most support. Zooming off on a solo attack mission while your team mates are fighting at another objective isn't always the best course of action. Teamwork isn't about voice communication, it is about working together and good team players do not need a voice over their headset to tell them where the best place for them is. Teamwork is when you take and guard an objective while others attack and hold another objective even if you are just guarding it from the enemies non-team player that keeps re-spawning and coming back to your objective.

 

So this isn't a learn to play issue, it is a learn to teamwork issue. Even if you solo queue, you are part of a team and if you act like a solo player instead of being a team player then your side will suffer.

Tell that to the people we destroyed in warhammer's Azazel server day after day until there were no destruction players left to fight. Our highly organized premade half warbands crushed destro zergs 3 to 4 times our numbers until most of them left, or rolled up on another server.

 

Pemades are doing the same thing here, and in the end they'll kill off the thing they find fun. If the other side rarely wins, they won't continue to queue. It'll end up being just like rated WZs, the same 3 teams will only see each other.

 

I will gladly tell that to any player who complains that Premades are ruining their pvp, because it's the truth. Group PVP is about teamwork to get the win. You should be blaming the lone wolf players who refuse to work together, that's who you should blame.

 

Premades is just smart gameplay and you can't dispute that no matter how hard you try to twist it.

Step 1 get some friends

Step 2 get teamspeak / vent / mumble

Step 3 become a GSF team

- Or try a RP/ PVE server, it isn't so frantic - and you get a more novices to blast!

 

- Even 7 losses for the weekly isn't hard. By then you should have amassed enough points to have a half-decent ship.

- As others have said, playing with Pugs, and setting goals during spawn can make all the difference. - Capping a point and defending is doing your job. Flying over half the map coz someone blasted you last time isn't helping the team. I'm far too old to be a No.1 ace pilot, but I have a blast, win or lose. If I get a few medals, score more kills than deaths and generally help, I feel I have contributed even of we lose to a better team!