Glad to know this is bothering a lot of other people too.

 

 

Having to decide between being a cliche hero/ villain is a bit annoying. Neutral or non-alignment items would be quite nice.

I haven't gotten far into the game but I think light or dark or neutral options will get you stuff that's sometimes cool or something you can sell and get credits for. There are positive and negative outcomes for every decision, especially in star wars. But I agree about getting more gear and powers no matter what your decision, just different kinds depending on choices.

This is a major oversight of the game design, obviously coming from the MMO design vets on Bioware's team. Alignment shouldn't be min/maxed.

 

If Bioware want's people to play the story "correctly," they should completely revamp the alignment reward system, or providing mixed alignment gear. For example, gear requirements not being just "dark II" but perhaps "Dark I/Light I" combined.

 

True, well put. They had this "fixed" in ME2, I wonder why they went back to this older system with TOR.

Same here. Ive a completely new player and have only played for less than a day and im quite seriously considering hitting the big "delete and redo" button.

 

I chose Sith simply because choosing Jedi would be just to obvious (Humans are basicly good etc.) and probably wouldnt be much of a challenge.

 

First thing that made me chuckly was the "friendship" points .. all fine and dandy because there is the usually "partying up and lets get the boss together" in a mmo .. but it really felt quite pink and fluffy for a dark evil Sith

 

The there is the npc conversations. No one really knows what a "sith" would do in those situations. Would a Sith even listen to a npc that isnt their "master"? Also you run into the odd paradox that on one hand you are a mean evil dark Sith who listen to no one .. but you really as a player want to do the quests the npc offer, so you dont want to answer anything that might end you up in failing to get the quest.

 

Also is it just me or is there a lot of "trick" questions? Like you think you answer is "dark" when you tell someone is "smelly" but then the npc thank you for telling it about its problem with BO and you get 150 Light points for "telling the truth" or whatever. (purely fictional question to awoid spoilers).

 

Anyways, i sit down from my first day of playing and i have a really odd feeling .. like walking away from a room filled with bodies of the ones that i have killed trying to be "evil" .. but apparently i killed em all like a saint (aka 1000+ light points).

 

I know SW is all about light and dark but in this game once you choose your faction you are pretty much set to one side. Sure the game can still have a scale based on your answers but shouldnt it be "inside" you side only? Like Dark can only get to choose from "less dark", "dark" and "mega dark"? Giving a dark char light point is not just a "degrading and crippling" in multiple ways its also very illogical .. or are they later going to introduce a faction change stone or similar?

its not even about the gear anymore, its the fact that we are being punished for making our own decisions.

 

If you play as either all light or all dark, then you aren't making your own decisions; you are making the decisions you are supposed to make. They aren't your own, the are the right ones you are supposed to make because you have to choose them to get any positive rewards.

 

You do realize none of these decisions are yours right? Last I checked we weren't playing star wars D&D (that would be amazing btw).

Did you even read the OP?

 

He's talking about players being punished for playing the way Bioware intended you to.

 

 

Basically in order to not be gimped you need to currently pick the light side option every time, or the dark side option (My only choice is being a freaking goody-two-shoe saint, or an insane evil overlord?). Since this is the case why don't we forgo the option entirely and just designate a characters alignment during character creation, so lame >.<

 

here is something to look at.

 

my character is currently 3850 light 1450 dark and lvl 34 i could solo essless like twice and get another 150 points bringing me to light 3. the way i see this is yeah those 1450 darkside points could have been lightside and id probably be halfway to light 4 but im glad i have the choice to have random fits of sadistic tendencies

Unless you purposefully choose to alternate between dark and light choices you won't be perfectly neutral, so you will be able to use the weaker version of one or the other side's stuff... You don't completely have to leave the slot empty, unless I am misunderstanding you?

 

Its just as arbitrary to stay fully neutral in this game as to choose one side all the time, the proper way to play would be to pick what you think is best for your character and deal with the hit either way...

So, your unhappy that YOUR choice has a CONSEQUENCE? Thats exactly what BW offered. Your choice to sit on the fence and not get the benefits from making a choice light or dark. As I remember in KOTOR, you only got benefits from high light or dark. I'm always amazed at the level of crying and whining. Hey BW, just remove all rules and classes and restrictions and let everyone do whatever they want. I want my SA to use a chain gun from stealth!!!!

So, your unhappy that YOUR choice has a CONSEQUENCE? Thats exactly what BW offered. Your choice to sit on the fence and not get the benefits from making a choice light or dark. As I remember in KOTOR, you only got benefits from high light or dark. I'm always amazed at the level of crying and whining. Hey BW, just remove all rules and classes and restrictions and let everyone do whatever they want. I want my SA to use a chain gun from stealth!!!!

 

You're confusing story consequences with mechanic consequences. Everyone wants their decisions to have consequences in the story. Whether it's getting a different ending, getting different quest rewards or even opening up completely different quest because of a decision you made, everyone loves that.

 

The problem arises when your character becomes mathematically less effective than someone else's because of your choices. At that point it's no longer a story consequence for making a story decision, it's an effectiveness penalty for making a story decision. In a game that's primarily about making your avatar stronger, this creates an incentive to go either hard light or hard dark to make your character as mechanically effective as possible. This incentive is what we have a problem with.

I experience this issue too. While I have no problem following Dark Side only with my Sith Assassin, I find myself in confused while playing Imperial Agent. Simply because his choices are NOT SIMPLE. Often, in both dark and light side options people die and both have some good outcomes. The division is mostly artificial. Said that, I would like to be able to choose according to the situation, not just looking at red or blue symbol.

 

Dark/Light choices are often much more complex than just "picking side". This game is story-based RPG and MMO same time. It is great about it. But to fully enjoy both aspects, more freedom should be added.

 

Also, I think it is logical for a Force-user to depend Light/Dark side choices. Their strenght highly depends on their emotions and hence behaviour. But for other classes, it's not so.

 

Adding neutral items will be a solution. Maybe only partial but still. To really solve the problem, choices system should get a lot more complicated.

 

To clarify - this game is NOT about fight between Light and Dark side. It is a war between Republic and Empire. Do not confuse these, they are not always equivalents.

This whole faux-victimization aka 'being punished for playing how I want to play' is what turned WoW from a great game into a steaming pile of turd where you get handed a trophy just for participation.

 

I guess its just an inevitability and I should just enjoy this while it lasts...

 

/sigh

Edited December 28, 2011 by Bibdy

i've been responding to quest as i would if i was in the situation. and have noticed i side more to the light while i'm not getting MASS LIGHT or MASS DARK by making nothing but good or bad decision with a mix between the two eventually it will even out.

 

if you are intentionally playing neutral again like in another thread. you're doing it wrong.

 

in this narrative because there is no back story to your character. you're literally creating it. you can't be the jedi that blows up 10 planets because he saved 10. doesn't make any sense

 

and i for one hope they never put grey gear in the game.

 

 

There's a problem with that. In Star Wars, there have been grey jedis and many others that do not particularly align with either side. It's as much a part of the story as the extremists of both sides. By all techicality, a person who is on the fence is normal in the lore and story of Star Wars, or else people like boba, han, and many others wouldn't really exist.

You're notbeing punished, you are complaining that your choices have consequences.

 

It's not that simple. Do you think that every situation in life is either good or bad, and there is no grey area? Is everything in your life so black and white?

 

When you just blindly pick light side or dark side options without giving it thought, you may continually piss off your companion. So your choices have consequences, right? Oh, no they don't because you can just give them a power converter and they will like you again.

The light/dark side thing is an imperfect system.

 

By staying intentionally neutral you are only looking at a single aspect of the system and not liking the results.

 

The reality is that you are not playing the story that you want to, you are playing the numbers game that Bioware has given you, and your character is acting in a completely irrational way as a result.

 

My characters have no problem being a hero that makes some dark decisions, or a villain that makes some light ones.

 

A character's motivation should extend beyond "I want to never go light or dark 1". That isn't a character concept at all. That is a numbers decision.

 

If all you do is see what the game tells you you will get in the way of light or dark points for doing certain things and choosing based off of the numbers and not the response, then you are not playing your character at all. You are letting the game play your character while you just push buttons.

 

Doesn't matter if you go all light, all dark, or enough of each to never stray outside of the middle.

 

There's a problem with that. In Star Wars, there have been grey jedis and many others that do not particularly align with either side. It's as much a part of the story as the extremists of both sides. By all techicality, a person who is on the fence is normal in the lore and story of Star Wars, or else people like boba, han, and many others wouldn't really exist.

 

'Gray' Jedi didn't randomly kill people to keep themselves in the middle.

 

They were just willing to bend the rules a little. You can do that in this game. It will ultimately lead you to the light side, just at a slower pace than someone that is letting the game tell them which decisions to make.

 

You do not actually believe that Qui-Gonn Jinn was some bipolar Jedi always trying to figure out how to offset his last good deed, do you?

It just doesn't match up to reality.

 

Grey Jedi = Light side Jedi with a few more dark points.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mithros

Of course you are. We're all being punished. You can be a light side character of dubious mental strength or you can be a dark side character of dubious mental strength. These are caricatures not characters. Its a parody and not an enjoyable one. I made it to level 24 as a trooper and just abandoned it. It will now run slicing missions and no more. Why? Cant take the moronic interactions with my current companion. Some imperial traitor. Somehow it is supposed to be compelling game play to take orders from a mouthy self righteous subordinate, whilst my character plays the fool and the lapdog. Mad props to whoever got this past beta.

The fact is, this is a -game-. Equality has to be maintained in multi player games due to balance reasons. Bioware themselves has said they didn't want your decisions to make heavy impact on your mechanics. No "Oh, you're dark side? Yea, our guild doesn't want you because dark siders don't get Uber Beat Sticks +1".

 

The way it stands there is a -huge- balance issue, and it's certainly not Slicing.

 

If you choose the cookie cutter path through your dialogues and just spam light or dark every time you're given the opportunity, you have 2 more pieces of gear boosting your stats than someone who plays the game like an RPG and thinks through each individual dialogue decision.

 

There's no problem with either play style. I'm sure the dev's more than welcome both. The problem lies in the fact that one favors another in mechanics, screwing with balance, and in direct oposition to what the dev's have stated as their wishes.

 

I read posts before the end of beta from the dev's stating that they fully intended on inserting neutral gear. I just hope they do it soon before we're all forced to get diplomacy and mission spam to qualify for relics. (I can see it now. NERF DIPLOMACY QQ OMG, TOO EZ TO GET ALIGMNENT!!11!, it makes me laugh.)

All in all if you are playing your own story, there should be some kind of points for whatever choice you make. But there are times when you only have 2 choices to make, so you either get light or dark and/or risk loosing favor with the companion. In the long run if there is a shortage of an equipment slot it would be nice to know ahead of time so you can kinda steer in the right direction.

 

I haven't played enough yet to make a decision on what my main will be but I don't want to end up missing something important that will make a huge difference later in the game.

Furthermore, if you are playing this game with out picking a side, you are doing it wrong!

 

Only the sith deal in absolutes.

 

Besides, the whole selling point of this game is the story, and I play the story as a Revanite. If I suck when I reach level 50 because I played the story instead of the numbers, then goodbye subscription.

 

I have heard they are adding neutral gear though, like you said. It'll save my subscription. I'm not the only one.

So, you basically want choices without consequences. Too bad you are asking for that in a game 100% based on the battle between dark and light.

 

Revanites unite against the above lies and corruption!

Edited December 29, 2011 by Khechari

I hate to tell you this but that is the definition of choice. You can choose dark or you can choose light. Not choosing light or dark is the opposite of choosing, you are doing nothing, you are then not making a choice.

 

This is false.

I choose to remain neutral.

I can profit from both sides.

Wasn't Revan canon light-side? The only major figure I can think of in the Old Republic era that was neutral, was Jolee Bindo.

 

Qui-gon Jinn was neutral. I play as a BH and I did everything that would be efficient and I ended up neutral. Now I am gearing at lvl 50 and I am missing slots. The writers hate this. I hate it. Nobody actually likes it because they either don't care because they have the gear or they are upset because this was a terrible idea.

 

PLEASE FIX BH ENDGAME!!!

I apologize if this has been said already. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to go through all the pages of the thread.

 

But I wanted to ask (sincerely asking, not trying to pick a fight):

 

What exactly is the appeal of playing a neutral character in the Star Wars universe?

 

My attraction to the lore and the stories has always been based around the very fundamental struggle of good vs. evil, light vs. dark, etc. It's archetypal, it's simple, it's mythic, it's all those wonderful things Lucas took from Joseph Campbell. Sure, there are neutral characters in the movies, but how often are they the characters that the story hinges on? How often are they the characters that are truly compelling in that primal, right vs. wrong sense?

 

I would readily agree that the shades of grey are what give any piece of fiction its sophistication, or at least the facade of sophistication, but in the end aren't we all drawn to these stories because that extreme moral polarity is...comforting?

 

All that being said, I do indeed think there should be non-Light/Dark gear in the game, equal in strength to the morally-bound gear, that neutral players can use.

 

EDIT: Looked back a few pages, realized this may be just rehashing. If so...well I figured I'd leave it up anyway.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Parthenon

What exactly is the appeal of playing a neutral character in the Star Wars universe?

 

Different tastes for different people.

 

I always prefer being good/light side, others might want to kick puppies and kill everyone and then there's the third option to walk on the balance.

 

And since there is that option, why not have items for them too?

I noticed this right off the bat. The system might as well not even exist seeing as how the only real choice you make is at the very beginning. "Will I pick the light or dark responses?" Then you stick with that the entire game.

 

And don't get me started on the space combat.

Ok I have been reading this and many people talks about the "real life", then I have to remind you that this is a video game; not your life, the question about the relics you're not being punished as you say, you just have to work harder to get what you want, that's more like a consequence of your choices, about the alignment issue i have to tell that BW have made an MMO that looks more like a real CRPG; and from my xp as GM of tabletops RPGs i have to tell you that alignment in this games are vital to sustain the playability of the game, so tried to focus on the reality of things.