Greates Emperor would be vitiate as it seems he ruled FAR longer thant Sidious. Sidious' reign only lasted around 20 years...

And yet he never accomplished anything. Sidious ruled the entire galaxy for 2 decades. He also destroyed the Jedi Order and dissolved the Galactic Republic. Vitiate did not. While he did rule his Empire for quite some time, he did not accomplish anything like Sidious.

I'm gonna say Sidious was really clever for doing what he did to get that power. However, at the end of the day all is did was take over an already well established society as a well respected member of that society's main government. You have to give credit where credit is due to Vitiate. He raised a new Sith empire almost from the ground up from the remnants of the destroyed one. Not to mention doing it with not just loyal and obedient clones, but with powerful, deceitful, and treacherous Sith Lords under him and managed to keep his post. Not only that, but he shaped this new society to the point where it was finally powerful enough to take on the great republic in full battle. He gave them one hell of a run for their money too.

I'm not saying he is more powerful than Sidious, but he did more with less.

I'm gonna say Sidious was really clever for doing what he did to get that power. However, at the end of the day all is did was take over an already well established society as a well respected member of that society's main government. You have to give credit where credit is due to Vitiate. He raised a new Sith empire almost from the ground up from the remnants of the destroyed one. Not to mention doing it with not just loyal and obedient clones, but with powerful, deceitful, and treacherous Sith Lords under him and managed to keep his post. Not only that, but he shaped this new society to the point where it was finally powerful enough to take on the great republic in full battle. He gave them one hell of a run for their money too.

 

I'm not saying he is more powerful than Sidious, but he did more with less.

To play devil's advocate: Sidious was one of only two Sith in his day. He relied on pure political manipulation---he didn't use the Force to impose his own will on Dooku to betray the Jedi, set up another government (Separatists) and attack the Republic, for instance, but actually turned Dooku to the dark side through Dooku's own will. I'd say in terms of use of the Force for manipulation, certainly this was not completely absent in Sidious' case, but he showed an ability the Emperor did not have to use, in a sense, the corruption of the Republic itself, largely through its own political machinery, to take control.

Even if Vitiate had only "remnants" of a Sith Empire, that was more than Sidious began with---saying "all he did was take over an already well established society as a well respected member of that society's main government" makes it sound like a walk in the park, but he was close to being discovered at least once. The fact that Sidious took control of a "pre-made" civilization does not make it easy. Also, Sidious is in fact canonically stronger, but then how this matters in terms of his "greatness" is relative.

---

All that said, in the end it's hard to deny that building an opposing civilization from the ground up would be far more difficult, especially given the treachery from some of the strongest people in this society. That took a lot of manipulation, too, but of a very different sort.

And yet he never accomplished anything. Sidious ruled the entire galaxy for 2 decades. He also destroyed the Jedi Order and dissolved the Galactic Republic. Vitiate did not. While he did rule his Empire for quite some time, he did not accomplish anything like Sidious.

Yes sidious accomplished awesome feets, but he did nothing as the Emperor. He just sat on his throne as if his ascension to the Emperor status was an end, wich in the end is the reason he failed and died. He just stopped caring and failed to protect his Empire.

He still the greatest Sith of all times!

Yes sidious accomplished awesome feets, but he did nothing as the Emperor. He just sat on his throne as if his ascension to the Emperor status was an end, wich in the end is the reason he failed and died. He just stopped caring and failed to protect his Empire.

 

He still the greatest Sith of all times!

He was working on crushing the Rebellion and preparing for the Vong.

Sidious' political maneuvering was on par with a contemporary election campaign. Actually, not even that. It was more on par with 1930's Germany. Only difference is Hitler had it worse 'cause the German economy was in the toilet.

Compared to raising a civilization from the ground with a bunch of bloodthirsty a** holes under you that would slit each others' throats in a second just to get the one up on somebody, I'd say jumping from senator to chancellor is of a slightly less difficulty. You can argue all you want about how great a manipulator palp is, but in the end of the day his work was already cut out for him. The galaxy was already conquered, he just named himself ruler of it.

I know it is an abomination for the Lucas fanbois to recognize even the slightest achievements of any non-trilogy character, but fanaticism only gets you so far of you're too stubborn to see an opposing viewpoint.

And I am sick of seeing the, "oh, he was manipulator" argument. So was almost every other Sith that ever Sith'd. You wanna give him a medal for doing nothing less than what was expected of him? Might as well give him points for having a pulse too.

He was working on crushing the Rebellion and preparing for the Vong.

Yet he failed so blatantly!

Yet he failed so blatantly!

He only failed because Vader betrayed him over Endor. Had Vader not betrayed him Luke would be dead and the Rebellion would eventually have been crushed without Luke's abilities to aid them.

He only failed because Vader betrayed him over Endor. Had Vader not betrayed him Luke would be dead and the Rebellion would eventually have been crushed without Luke's abilities to aid them.

Thats because Sidious let his guard down and was too eager to find a new apprentice! If he respected the Rule of two, he would have gave Vador a real, high-tech body, not a second generation one only to reduce him! Vador would have killed him and take his place way before Luke came in and crush the Rebellion!

But like I said, Sidious saw his ascension to the thrown as an end and was overconfident about the future of his Empire and hs abilities.

But its a story, Sidious needed to die for the story, so did Vador to repent!

Vitiate seems to have a lot more raw power from what I've seen. Then again, Sidious learned from Darth Plagus who was no mere boy. This is a tough decision.

Vitiate, I remind you, also took control of an already-established Sith society. They were being ruined and he rallied them to himself with a promise of a safe and hidden new homeworld. They had to start over building a world, but much of their societal structure and domination was already in place. He definitely demonstrated the greatest force abilities, with all those sith rituals he performed and what-not. Impressive, but he basically took a scared people, built them up over thousands of years, only to be pretty evenly matched by the already-present Galactic Republic. No small feat, of course, but I think Sidious' achievements are bigger.

Sidious was impressive in his own right - ascended to supreme political power right under the eye of the wisest and strongest Jedi Masters. He remained hidden and carefully orchestrated an entire war to serve his purposes. He managed to circumvent base political rules to stay in power longer and when the time was right - wiped out almost the entire Jedi Order in the span of a few days. Not the greatest display of force power, perhaps, but power nonetheless. He then goes on to create TWO moon-sized battle stations capable of destroying entire planets. And actually destroys one. He finds himself with a powerful apprentice (Vader) and a possible replacement that's even more powerful. He'd done this before with Anakin and Dooku - the apprentice-swap is nothing new. That prophesy came back to bite him though when Vader does a last minute team kill. The way Sidious dies is a little weak...he's literally picked up and thrown down a shaft.

Sidious gets my vote. It's a shame he was first explored in film format - he might have been able to last longer had the need for the hero to win at the end not been present.

The main reason that Vitiate was able to maintain his empire is because he remained in the shadows, and when he finally got a chance to strike at the Republic - he kinda failed (Treaty of Coruscant *facepalm*)

And I think Sidious' sith code is better than Vitiate's - Sidious wasn't a bloodthristy butcher like the old sith, he worked in the shadows and manipulated events to work in his favor which was much more effective. The only reason Vitiate stayed in power is because he outright slaughtered his opponents or imprisoned them, in Sidious' case he had complete control so nobody could oppose him in the first place.

We can't just consider how much they did, we also have to consider how powerful they are. And Sidious wins that because he is canonically the most powerful sith lord to have ever lived.

And if you've watched the Gnost-Dural timeline videos then you'll know that Vitiate wasn't recognised as a Dark Lord of the Sith by the ancient Sith lords (Naga Sadow etc.) Instead they favoured Exar Kun. In that sense Vitiate can be seen as a bit of a pretender rather than a real sith lord.

and finally we have to consider who's cooler, and if you've seen the movies you know that Sidious beats Vitiate on that front.

Thats because Sidious let his guard down and was too eager to find a new apprentice! If he respected the Rule of two, he would have gave Vador a real, high-tech body, not a second generation one only to reduce him! Vador would have killed him and take his place way before Luke came in and crush the Rebellion!

You spelled Vader wrong - and lets face it, Vader was a broken man, both his body and his mind. He would have made a bad emperor and Sidious realized that. Nor would he have been as powerful. Sidious needed a proper replacement but I agree he should have seen the threat of Vader turning against him if he killed Luke. Vader was still grief-stricken from the death of Padme - killing his son, bad idea.