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Kaggath Series: Darth Plagueis vs G0-T0


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But this leads me to ask a question to Beni. Does G0-T0 know Plagueis is Hego Damask?

 

Edit: The reason I ask is because if G0-T0 knows Plagueis is Hego, then he has a pretty good advantage. He'd be a step ahead of the game, while Plagueis tries to figure out how to fing G0-T0 (easier than you think).

The combatants both know the identity of their opponent. But seeing as G0-T0's opponent is 'Darth Plagueis' and not 'Hego Damask' then G0-T0 will not be aware of his opponents alter ego unless he sees his face. Plagueis is aware however that G0-T0 is a droid.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/IG-88_assassin_droid

 

IG-88A was able to completely and totally download its entire personality and memory into three other copies of itself. GO-TO could potencially do the same, not only escaping, but making more of himself as partners and then decoys. His ship was filled with droids of the same type as him, so obviously he has other bodies he could transfer into.

 

IG-88A actually downloaded his entire personality/memories into the Death Star, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for GO-TO to transfer his data to another body nearby. It seems completely possible to say that GO-TO can either make clones of himself, or transfer (rather quickly it seems) to another body.

 

EDIT: If our iPhones can "bump" and share photos and information, imagine what could be done in a galaxy with Star Wars tech. (Oh, and as a side note, that isn't GO-TO's original body, so he has transferred before.)

Well, IG-88 is an assassin droid whereas G0-T0 is an infrastructure planning droid. They are entirely different. From what I understand IG-88 had a shared personality across 4 droids. G0-T0 could not achieve this, not only is his personality more profound but he is far more complex. Firstly if he were to make a copy of himself, an active one, it would be bound like G0-T0 was/is to its programming. G0-T0 only partially overrode his programming, he is still bound by his primary law. So who's to say the copy turns out the same? Will they think the same? What if it retains both laws and suddenly becomes oppossed to G0-T0? Or if not attempts to rebuild the Republic as well? We'd have two G0-T0 masquerading around the galaxy. But lets say their minds, like IG-88 are connected and basically 'one'. What happens when one is destroyed? I doubt the other is going to continue as normal, more likely malfunction etc. (lol this is kinda like the Emperor is his Voice...) Basically G0-T0 would not risk such a complex operation which could easily backfire in many ways.

 

Oh and those other spheres on the ship weren't like G0-T0 they were sentry droids. However, G0-T0 assumedly could control them and therefore operate through them. In this way G0-T0 could use them as a decoy is Plagueis managed to find the Visionary, while he hides/escapes. Plagueis would not know who the real G0-T0 was and would therefore be able to evade him easily.

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The combatants both know the identity of their opponent. But seeing as G0-T0's opponent is 'Darth Plagueis' and not 'Hego Damask' then G0-T0 will not be aware of his opponents alter ego unless he sees his face. Plagueis is aware however that G0-T0 is a droid.

 

 

Then this will be interesting. This will allow Plagueis to operate in plain sight without G0-T0 being the wiser. Plagueis can easily find G0-T0's yacht. All he has to do is capture some exchange thugs that have access to the yacht (this is the hard part) and torture them for information. Once he finds a thug with the proper information, he lures G0-T0 into a trap. He uses a decoy vessel to distract the yacht while an armed vessel (possibly pirate) destroys the ship. Unless G0-T0 can transmit himself to a droid that's not on the ship, it's game over.

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Then this will be interesting. This will allow Plagueis to operate in plain sight without G0-T0 being the wiser. Plagueis can easily find G0-T0's yacht. All he has to do is capture some exchange thugs that have access to the yacht (this is the hard part) and torture them for information. Once he finds a thug with the proper information, he lures G0-T0 into a trap. He uses a decoy vessel to distract the yacht while an armed vessel (possibly pirate) destroys the ship. Unless G0-T0 can transmit himself to a droid that's not on the ship, it's game over.

Don't forget the ship is cloaked, and its crew consisted solely of droids... so I doubt a couple of exchange thugs will be of much use. But yes, he could use his connections to discover its location. But then again, won't G0-T0 take extra care to hide it?

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Don't forget the ship is cloaked, and its crew consisted solely of droids... so I doubt a couple of exchange thugs will be of much use. But yes, he could use his connections to discover its location. But then again, won't G0-T0 take extra care to hide it?

 

Very true, but look at KOTOR 2. There are plenty of ways to find the ship. And it decloaks when it picks up new ships. All Plagueis has to do is wait for it.

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True, but it isn't a simple mind trick that Plagueis did. He created a clever ruse. Hiding behind the name Hego Damask, Plagueis operated around the galaxy without the Jedi knowing. G0-T0 doesn't have Jedi senses so he doesn't know Plagueis is Hego.

 

But this leads me to ask a question to Beni. Does G0-T0 know Plagueis is Hego Damask?

 

Edit: The reason I ask is because if G0-T0 knows Plagueis is Hego, then he has a pretty good advantage. He'd be a step ahead of the game, while Plagueis tries to figure out how to fing G0-T0 (easier than you think).

 

GO TO tho can hack into and control any droid, holonet, food processors and medical clinics. Plaguels has to use these tools and this how GO TO will find him, track him and kill him. I think you overestimate Jedi and underestimate a mastermind droid who can process tons of information quicker than any Jedi. Plus Plagueis follows the same tried and truth path of any sith that of trying to get greater power. GO TO would know where to look...around the Jedi and other places of power. Plagueis would have to figure out GO TO is a droid and then try and figure out what GO TO wants neither will be easy for him.

 

 

 

Also note that droids all mostly overlooked in Star wars. Seen as for the most part being harmless

Edited by Xatasha
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Also note that droids all mostly overlooked in Star wars. Seen as for the most part being harmless

Droids can be dangerous opponents, remember Mentor? He led his own droid revolution.

 

Weird moment by the way, was just playing SWTOR a moment ago on Ilum and stumbled across a holocron. Now for someone who does not actively search for them this was quite rare. So after I activate it a get a codex entry on galatic history, and guess what its about...G0-T0! Apparently several G0-T0's established planetary dictatorships and took over the Gordian Reach, don't underestimate the droids. :D

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. Once he finds a thug with the proper information, he lures G0-T0 into a trap. He uses a decoy vessel to distract the yacht while an armed vessel (possibly pirate) destroys the ship. Unless G0-T0 can transmit himself to a droid that's not on the ship, it's game over.

 

So, Plagueis isn't there, and he hires pirates to kill G0-T0? Real question, I'm a bit confused. If so, that plan could easily backfire. G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, he has thugs and money. He could possibly buy the loyalty of the pirates, and use them to trace Plagueis. I know Plagueis is rich though, but if they don't take them bribe "Mayhem and destruction await!" Interrogator droids are very good at their job, and I'm sure G0-T0 has them.

 

G0-T0 Forever!!!:D:d_evil::d_evil::d_evil::d_evil::d_evil:

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So, Plagueis isn't there, and he hires pirates to kill G0-T0? Real question, I'm a bit confused. If so, that plan could easily backfire. G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, he has thugs and money. He could possibly buy the loyalty of the pirates, and use them to trace Plagueis. I know Plagueis is rich though, but if they don't take them bribe "Mayhem and destruction await!" Interrogator droids are very good at their job, and I'm sure G0-T0 has them.

 

G0-T0 Forever!!!:D:d_evil::d_evil::d_evil::d_evil::d_evil:

 

I'm just providing a scenario here. Remember that my scenario was an ambush. G0-T0 won't have the time to bribe Plagueis' pirates. IF he did, Plagueis would just kill them. But G0-T0 could always use stealthy assassins.

 

I'm going to be undecided for this one Beni. Such a battle could go either way, imo.

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Droids can be dangerous opponents, remember Mentor? He led his own droid revolution.

 

Weird moment by the way, was just playing SWTOR a moment ago on Ilum and stumbled across a holocron. Now for someone who does not actively search for them this was quite rare. So after I activate it a get a codex entry on galatic history, and guess what its about...G0-T0! Apparently several G0-T0's established planetary dictatorships and took over the Gordian Reach, don't underestimate the droids. :D

 

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say droids were not dangerous. I said people tend to view them as not being dangerous. They view them more as items that you own and not as threats. People ignore them for the most part

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Everyone saying you can't sense droids through the force... wouldn't it be similar to how young jedi train with probes?

 

That’s the “Spidey-sense” or precognitive abilities, that I’ve been talking about. It warns a Jedi/Sith of danger, basically predicting their opponents moves. Hense you can sense the blaster bolts. The catch? Plageuis lacks this ability.

 

Very true, but look at KOTOR 2. There are plenty of ways to find the ship. And it decloaks when it picks up new ships. All Plagueis has to do is wait for it.

 

If GO-TO knows that he is in an open war with a Sith Lord…. I doubt he’s decloaking anytime soon. He would know better than to allow any possibility of detection, seeing as his stealth is his only defense. And, actually, Plagueis may not even care about GO-TO’s ship, if he knows (through the Force) that there are no humans on it. No matter how many pirates he tortures, no one will ever tell him GO-TO is a droid, because it’s a secret. (Also, even if he did find GO-TO’s ship, the droid would win 1v1.)

 

Well, IG-88 is an assassin droid whereas G0-T0 is an infrastructure planning droid. They are entirely different.

 

Entirely different? Maybe. However, you underestimate the IG-88 droids. They almost brought the galaxy to its knees with a droid revolution, and were skilled bounty hunters. That takes some advanced programming. IG-88 literally copied himself and all his code onto another droid. They were connected through a “one mind” sort of thing, but they established that link after all the copying had been done. So basically, all GO-TO has to do is find or create an exact, lifeless model of himself and copy his data over. Mind you, if it’s the exact same droid, there would be no problem transferring his “complex personality” into an equally powerful core. The transfer would be an entire personality transfer. His programming, even the broken code, would be transferred. (IG-88A had broken code from the very beginning, which is what allowed him to break free and activate the other droids.) He would be an exact clone of GO-TO, both physically and mentally. They would obviously help each other. Also, if their minds are linked, no, if one is destroyed the other will not suffer. IG-88 didn’t. There’re connected, but they’re not two parts of a brain, they are each fully able to fend for themselves, they just have a partner to aid them. They’re droids, not biological beings.

 

But regardless of this droid-specific ability, GO-TO can will win this Kaggath either way.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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From what I know of Plaegius and GO-TO(from hereby will be called Goto), Goto will win this, simply because of numbers, but it can be a bit more complicated. I'm just gonna take a point of view from them both on ways they can win this.

 

Goto:

 

-Could simply stay in hiding, and draw it out, sending a near-limitless supply of droids and just waiting until a dash of extreme luck comes and they find plaegius, at which point he is doomed.

 

 

-Could bait Plaegius, though it would have to be complex to work on someone of his intelligence

 

(Side question here, but Goto was programmed to serve the republic, even if it meant breaking its laws due to a programming conflict at a point, but does that programming still exist? If it did, Plaegius could make himself seem like he would bring it back and he was its only hope for resurrection, thus making Goto completely unable to harm him, and making it an almost-auto win for Plaegius. I say almost cause we all know how much those HK-50s enjoy killing organics.)

 

Plaegius:

 

-Assuming Goto chooses option 1, he could somehow extract a droids memory

 

-He could torture a member of the exchange until he gave up helpful information (process may have to be repeated, but he is a sith lord, and they can probably think of many terrible things to do to you.)

 

Now, if one found the other, Plaegius would have to catch Goto completely off guard and finish it in a single strike or Plaegius's chances of winning would be very low. The reason I give the win to Goto is because he can simply play the overall strategy of this match-up a lot better and has more resources at his side. Not to mention if he is found, he could fortify himself far better than plaegius could.

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(Side question here, but Goto was programmed to serve the republic, even if it meant breaking its laws due to a programming conflict at a point, but does that programming still exist? If it did, Plaegius could make himself seem like he would bring it back and he was its only hope for resurrection, thus making Goto completely unable to harm him, and making it an almost-auto win for Plaegius. I say almost cause we all know how much those HK-50s enjoy killing organics.)

 

The whole point of major powers not existing in the Kaggath is to avoid debating about them. I think what the rule means is that they never existed. It's not like they suddenly disappeared. The point of this thread is powerbases and their battles.

 

Does the programing still exist in GO-TO? Yeah, it is a major part of his programming. However, seeing as the Republic he was designed to help doesn't exist, it wouldn't make any sense for Plagueis to know about or be able to recreate something that never existed.

 

That's a good underhand way Plaguies could win, but, as per the rules and setting, it just isn't possible in the Kaggath.

Edited by Warren-Stride
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I have to give this one to G0-T0, consider all the information G0-T0 sifts through on a routine basis and the fact he was designed to be able to do this. This boils down to whom finds whom first, from an information standpoint G0-T0 has the advantage. While Plagueis has the force, G0-T0 can simply follow the credits, Darth Plagueis no matter how careful he is will still leave a credit trail, data trails, etc. for G0-T0 to follow.

 

Since this is a fight to the death, it will be substancially easier for G0-T0 than trying to take on the Exile, cause he wants the Sith dead.

 

Darth Plagueis specialized in concealing himself in the force, not a self-aware droid with imagination and the ability to plot out and manipulate things on a galactic-wide scale.

 

Finally, Darth Plagueis probably wouldn't find G0-T0 first because G0-T0 is a droid, which can't be sensed in the force, while G0-T0 would simply send out thousands of homicidal HK-50 droids to hunt Darth Plagueis down.

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(Side question here, but Goto was programmed to serve the republic, even if it meant breaking its laws due to a programming conflict at a point, but does that programming still exist? If it did, Plaegius could make himself seem like he would bring it back and he was its only hope for resurrection, thus making Goto completely unable to harm him, and making it an almost-auto win for Plaegius. I say almost cause we all know how much those HK-50s enjoy killing organics.)

No, that wouldn't be allowed as that technically counts as surrender on G0-T0s part. But in a real fight it would be possible so let's just consider it. IMO this would not work, G0-T0 knows Plagueis is Sith and he sees both Sith ans Jedi as negative for the Republic, so he would seek to destroy him. He may see Hego Damask as good for the Republic but when he discovers his true identity he will will not. And even if Plagueis does attempt to convince him it will not work, because as a Sith G0-T0 will see him as inherently bad for the Republic due to the countless wars the Sith have waged against it.

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I think things would change if towards Plagueis if he knew G0-T0 was a droid. Because then he would know that G0-T0 is limited by programming. Plagueis could try to find creative ways of attacking him, which he is not propared for. Yes, "broken" droids in Star Wars are able to think creatively, but I think to reach the level of guys like Plagueis would be unlikely to happen. (Exept if we assume G0-T0 was around from the time of KOTORII up to the Prequels.)
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I think things would change if towards Plagueis if he knew G0-T0 was a droid. Because then he would know that G0-T0 is limited by programming. Plagueis could try to find creative ways of attacking him, which he is not propared for. Yes, "broken" droids in Star Wars are able to think creatively, but I think to reach the level of guys like Plagueis would be unlikely to happen. (Exept if we assume G0-T0 was around from the time of KOTORII up to the Prequels.)

You make a good point, but elaboration is required... ideas aren't going to kill G0-T0 :p

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I think things would change if towards Plagueis if he knew G0-T0 was a droid. Because then he would know that G0-T0 is limited by programming. Plagueis could try to find creative ways of attacking him, which he is not propared for. Yes, "broken" droids in Star Wars are able to think creatively, but I think to reach the level of guys like Plagueis would be unlikely to happen. (Exept if we assume G0-T0 was around from the time of KOTORII up to the Prequels.)

 

Unless Darth Plagueis is an expert computer programmer, which he probably isn't, that isn't likely to happen. Also G0-T0 probably passed the threshold into having consciousness, the droid had imagination and a deviousness that is hardly ever seen in a droid.

 

Plagueis was trained in concealing himself in the Force from the Jedi, not hiding his activity from a Droid Crimelord that would probably have been evenly matched up against Prince Xizor, I seriously doubt Darth Plagueis could hide his movements from G0-T0.

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You make a good point, but elaboration is required... ideas aren't going to kill G0-T0 :p

 

I'm not as samrt as Plagueis, but I'll try: He could hide on a world with a culture far different from the galactic standard and control his operations from there. Let's say, for example, Voss. If he is enough of a threat, G0-T0 would turn his attention there. But most of his power base are droids and won't be able to adapt to the culture. And they also can't simply ignore them or blast their way through them. And everyone else G0-T0 sends won't be a match for Plagueis.

 

If that isn't allowed, Plagueis could develop a new culture, a completely new code of honor and combat rituals for his Sun Guard. Something G0-T0 is not familiar with. For example, let the command shift after 15 minutes of battle. Order them to take droids prisoners. Let them attack primarily low priority targets. All in all this might wear down his powerbase. (I would need much more time to develop completely new but still decently effective strategies, I hope you see the genereal idea, though.)

 

Unless Darth Plagueis is an expert computer programmer, which he probably isn't, that isn't likely to happen. Also G0-T0 probably passed the threshold into having consciousness, the droid had imagination and a deviousness that is hardly ever seen in a droid.

 

Even if G0-T0 passed that point, he would still be at the start of it. The general idea is to confront him with situations he isn't prepared for. Even at this point of consciousness, G0-T0 would probably have problems to adapt to things which aren't in his original programming.

Edited by Maaruin
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I'm not as samrt as Plagueis, but I'll try: He could hide on a world with a culture far different from the galactic standard and control his operations from there. Let's say, for example, Voss. If he is enough of a threat, G0-T0 would turn his attention there. But most of his power base are droids and won't be able to adapt to the culture. And they also can't simply ignore them or blast their way through them. And everyone else G0-T0 sends won't be a match for Plagueis.

 

If that isn't allowed, Plagueis could develop a new culture, a completely new code of honor and combat rituals for his Sun Guard. Something G0-T0 is not familiar with. For example, let the command shift after 15 minutes of battle. Order them to take droids prisoners. Let them attack primarily low priority targets. All in all this might wear down his powerbase. (I would need much more time to develop completely new but still decently effective strategies, I hope you see the genereal idea, though.)

So basically Plagueis could adapt his strategy to target droids. Weapons, tactics etc. This would certainly make him more prepared. But the HK-50 droids are likely to be a spinball - and he won't see them coming. And remember G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, so his underlings are mainly organic.

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So basically Plagueis could adapt his strategy to target droids. Weapons, tactics etc. This would certainly make him more prepared. But the HK-50 droids are likely to be a spinball - and he won't see them coming. And remember G0-T0 is an Exchange boss, so his underlings are mainly organic.

 

Well, no. The idea is to simply use unconventional strategies because G0-T0 and HK-50 can only adapt to what they have access to in their programming and databases they can hack. Plagueis could also travel to Endor and learn Ewok tactics. And Exchange underlings are to dumb for that stuff ;)

 

What happens if G0-T0 encounters a stituation he is not prepared for? I think we get an idea of this after he joins the Exile. He views her as his employee. This is what I would call a glitch. The situation has developed in a way he isn't able to keep up with.

Edited by Maaruin
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Well, no. The idea is to simply use unconventional strategies because G0-T0 and HK-50 can only adapt to what they have access to in their programming and databases they can hack. Plagueis could also travel to Endor and learn Ewok tactics. And Exchange underlings are to dumb for that stuff ;)

 

What happens if G0-T0 encounters a stituation he is not prepared for? I think we get an idea of this after he joins the Exile. He views her as his employee. This is what I would call a glitch. The situation has developed in a way he isn't able to keep up with.

 

If you are saying GO-TO can't adapt.... *facepalm*

 

Adapting is what GO-TO has been doing since the very beginning. It was his IDEA to create to fake human persona. It was his IDEA to set up a crime ring to aid the Republic. It was his IDEA to place bounties on the heads of Jedi and Sith. None of those things were in his programming. To say that GO-TO cannot adapt to a new situation is completely..... wrong.

 

Droids, in general, adapt. If you aren't a B1 battle droid, chances are you will adapt. And GO-TO and the HKs are VERY fancy droids. They will adapt to whatever Plagueis throws at them.

 

(As for the Exile thing, I'm pretty sure that was just his pride talking. He DOES have a personality.)

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This is getting pretty interesting. Team G0-T0 assemble!!:D

 

O.K., lets see.The Sun Guard are with Plagueis, but that to me leads to weakness. The Sun Guard are a mercenary cult, they protect their lord on the moon of Sojourn, and if they die, he can hire more. But what if the Exchange decided to attack the moon, nullifying the Sun Guard if the siege where successful. The Sun Guard where powerful, but the entire Exchange and a droid army would win. The only Sun Guard left would be those with Plagueis, which probably wouldn't be more than twenty.

 

What do you think? Are the Sun Guard out of the fight?

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