I think you miss is a few things.

 

First they also said they would start on new elder game once KotFE launched... That time line is a direct quote from the SDCC Cantina. Now there is no news whatsoever?

 

Second yes all about the story BUT in the past the "story" at least involved stuff on new planets that were repeatable... Makeb, Oricon, Rishi, Yavin etc. This time it means stuff we already did before with forced level sync.

 

Third: all of the bugs, an attack on exploiters (good) that rounded up more than a few innocent people (bad), and that exploit took almost 2 months to fix?. The broken event, the companion debacle? The server issues with server rests resulting in server rollbacks that cost people REAL LIFE $$$ in lost Cartel market purchases that they either can not of will not address, refund?

 

The stringing along of people who want playable content, not just OPs but solo too, is simply the foundation of the frustration. Everything else has piled upon it. It is NOT just about raids, but for some reason I see people who jump to BWs defense lately amost reflexively say "raids". I don't know if it is because they simply have blinders on or think that the word is controversial enough to obfuscate the other issues.

 

I have played MMORPGs for almost 20 years now. I have seen stuff like this when a game initially launches BUT never in a game that is 4 years old. Pretty much from any objective analysis this expac has been one mistake after another. I know players who are almost exclusive story players who have had it with BW at this point.

Question, do you think I'm referring to raids above all? I didn't intend to. It's just my main area of gaming. As I said there are quite a few things that I am tracking. The point being that expecting more content to be released before next year is foolish. We know it to be that way since we were told that this is what we were getting for the remainder of this year. Yes, I am aware of that line that they would begin working on a new operation post launch of Kotfe, and I am extremely annoyed that their post said "oh yeah no new pve content is being developed right now outside of the remaining story chapters". They've done this song and dance bumper sticker talk before with the "oh we won't let the gap between new raids go this long again!" Which is subsequently why it's absolutely on my radar. I notice their seemingly brainless philosophy towards 224 gear, the removal of kp and ev nim because they were too easy all while including even easier hardmode versions in a highlighted fashion that can be 5-7 manned in 188 free 60 gear. So I'm absolutely 100 percent looking at them going...exactly what kind of direction are you trying to go with here? I think I might have an answer, but that answer isn't substantiated with a) enough time to validate or b) enough data to validate. It's simply jumping at shadows. Specifically regarding raiding, any raider who thought they'd have a new operation before June or July was also being a tad bit foolish. We're simply trying to look ahead in the future too heavily.

To respond to the claim I'm missing things, yes I notice that this month has been friggin terrible for bioware. It's almost comical how bad it's been. But, this is a small snap shot in time. And, that by no means actually means this game is in the weeds. Do I agree with the moves they've made? Not entirely. I'm intrigued by the "story dlc" model in so far as they understand that the balance between group content and story content should be maintained. As of now we have no real knowledge that it is, or will be. Even so, they've said that February is their month to "talk" per say. So that's when I will listen, and form my own judgments. People who sit there and claim that oh because of x y and z the 31 percent of the sub increase has eroded are plain silly. For all they know the sub increase could still be up 27 percent, or insert whatever arbitrary number you may like. The fact is we have no idea. It's just extrapolating off of attempting to read between the lines. Which, usually, isn't accurate. It reminds me of people trying to discern emotion from text messages, and then failing miserably at the conclusions they've come to.

Some of what you posted isn't fact, for instance repeatable content. They absolutely added repeatable content. They redid the heroics, they added the alliance system, they made companion influence relevant (in the idea that it has a new goal to work towards), and they nudged us towards star fortresses. So in fact, there is repeatable content. Whether you, or me, or anyone, truly likes it or approves of it is purely subjective and only time (more time than we currently have under the belt) will tell the tale. What I find laughable is this idea that "this is it!".

I commend you always for logically posting things on this forum. It's a breath of fresh air generally from the rampant over emotional non sense tons of posters push forward. However logical your conclusions may be, I do tend to see your current fight in multiple threads as a very well reasoned argument built on a foundation of ideas that aren't truly factual.

I'm not attempting to defend Bioware. Certainly, there are things at work that currently I'm wondering why on. However, a lot of arguments and the conclusions they're forming are 100 percent based on unknowns.

I typically don't take issue with people venting. It's only natural to vent in a fashion where you have complete anonymity. No repercussions. In a sense it's healthy. What I think I'm fed up with at this point is the over rationalization of incorrect assumptions. Or even posters blatantly ignoring what we already know to be true then inserting their own ideas into those spaces acting as if they're new post is the true statement. They aren't. They have as little idea as the rest of us.

The idea that we have very little idea is concerning, but honestly when have we ever been so aprised of information anyway? When have bug fixes not taken the same time as they've taken currently, and we can still point to previous exploits like Ravagers as an example that amidst all of that the game still grew in light of 4.0.

I'm losing my own train of thought out of sheer annoyance with posters so if any of that made any sense, or debated any of your points great. If not, well I apologize for having you sift through this pile of words,. I guess the glass half full is that I at least put it in paragraph form?

So how do you get growth? You do it by the changes they made here. Now the existing story fan might like it, but that is going to be short lived imo because it is just one story and it is phased release. I mean lets be honest, the story is no more or less engaging than SoR. Heck I would argue less because at least in SoR I had a little class specific chapter. The rest of the game, the streamlined leveling, level sync, bolster, instant level 60s etc. it's ALL about that new player coming in and saying "OMG this game is HUGE!!!!" But for the existing player who focuses at least as much on actual play, regardless if it is solo, FP or OP, they have nothing but recycled content.

I'm doubting that people who always want something new or they leave are actually long-term customers. I'm also not certain that people have an absolute aversion to familiarity in a game. Once I've gone through each of the eight advanced classes, I can do it for the other alignment. Then I can do it for the other gender. If I were of the bent, I could go through it with each companion. I recognize that there are players out there who would find such a process excruciating rather than enjoyable. I'm just not certain of the relative proportions of each. It's possible that the portion of the player base generating the most consistent revenue for the game is not that which only shows up when there's something new and only stays if they constantly have new things to do. I therefore don't think people who replay games they enjoy should be discounted out of hand.

"Start on elder game" doesn't mean release new content. The reason there's no news might simply be that they haven't got it out of the first planning stage, so there's nothing to tell. They're not going to release the minutes of every meeting just so you can feel satisfied that they are giving you news.

 

True, we got new planets with past expansions - CZ (does it count?), Makeb, Oricon, Rishi, Yavin, Ziost.... not like this one where we got Ondessa and Yakuul, setting it up for the next chapters to come. Wait a second......

 

Third.....actually you do have a bit of a point here, kinda reminds me of the 15 billion posts we've had in the last couple of weeks mentioning the exact same points. Oh, apart from the bit where you say people lost REAL LIFE $$$ in rollbacks. People are getting the stuff the bought of the market back (or a refund) since they just have to show the page from your account that shows every Cartel Coin transaction that has taken place (ie proof, and not just "chancing their arm" to see if they can get some free stuff).

 

Stringing along - I know it's not happened yet, but they have been setting it up - is that what you call releasing new content every month? Maybe you could call HBO and tell them that they are just stringing you along only giving you 1 episode of Game of Thrones every week.

 

I especially like where you "casually" throw in that you've played MMO's for 20 years. You must be such an expert [insert Wonka face here]

I know it doesn't mean release it, I am not an idiot so please don't be patronizing. What it means however if that in the announcement where Eric said "no new on PvE" (note not elder game so that means legit new repeatable solo content as well) indicates they haven't even started on it. I would not expect new content of that sort until MAYBE August or September at the earliest if they started it last month. No news at all, not even a "we are working on development now and we will give you a release time frame when we see how fast we are progressing" would be acceptable. No news? Not so much.

Next, you are being obtuse. Is there new repeatable content on either of those new planets? Nope. Odessen is basically the new fleet where we get quests to go and do what we have done 1000 times before. Zakuul is essentially a solo instance and it is not repeatable. So again, wrong.

Well funny that because A LOT of the people who saw that are calling BS on your claim. Why don't you check your account, I just did to confirm it. Other than when I get coins what do I see..."oh wait"... "In game purchase.". That's it....in game purchase and while I have seen ONE person make the claim you did, that they can see the items they bought, EVERYONE else has said they see what I said. So try again

As for stringing along I am not referring to the near exlusive story fan that sees the game play as a necessary evil. I am talking about the solo player who likes the story but was looking for a new world to explore, the person with a small group of friends who wanted a new FP to enjoy with them and yes the person who likes doing stuff with 8-16 people.

The fact you have to ignore salient features (such as the difference between our two new worlds and the past) a need to resort to patronizing language and ad hominems to defend a position. Usually that is illustrative of a weaker position.

I'm doubting that people who always want something new or they leave are actually long-term customers. I'm also not certain that people have an absolute aversion to familiarity in a game. Once I've gone through each of the eight advanced classes, I can do it for the other alignment. Then I can do it for the other gender. If I were of the bent, I could go through it with each companion. I recognize that there are players out there who would find such a process excruciating rather than enjoyable. I'm just not certain of the relative proportions of each. It's possible that the portion of the player base generating the most consistent revenue for the game is not that which only shows up when there's something new and only stays if they constantly have new things to do. I therefore don't think people who replay games they enjoy should be discounted out of hand.

On the first part you are only half right, and I do have facts to prove this. Now sometimes people don't like the new stuff or a game period so yes they will leave regardless BUT an MMORPG, like this one was, one with a PvE based persistent world needs new content on a regular basis. You can actually look into the past and see it illustrated in MMORPG sub rates, Store (when it was around) and Raptr #'s etc. You can also go to BW's own presentation at GDC 2013. In essence Year after year the subscription rates/active players look like a sine wave.

In essence the activity goes up as you come close to an expac launch or content update and then peaks in these areas. Then as players run out of stuff to do (no new quests, no more gearing up to do for mains and/or alts, no new story) the sub rates decline only to begin a climb back up with the next content update or expac. That is why development schedules are so important.

You can even see BW acknowledging this in the design of this expac. IF people don't care about new stuff why a phased release of the story and then all the subscription rewards to stop people from binge watching? Heck they mentioned binge watching in the livestream? It again comes back to what they found out at launch. From Brian Ohlen...

 

Based on BioWare's pre-launch metrics, the team expected players to get through the content in three or four months. This assessment might seem obviously wrong to an experienced MMO player, but we are talking about a game with extensive voiceover and literally thousands of cinematic cutscenes adding up to about 170 to 180 hours of content. So the devs anticipated that TOR would take more consecutive days to complete than the average MMO. But according to BioWare's metrics, players were tearing through the content an average of 40 hours a week; some players spent more than 120 hours a week in the game. "Within four and five weeks, we suddenly had close to a half a million people at the endgame," Ohlen said. "It was something we didn't expect at all." Players were unsatisfied and began to exit the game

Now in that context elder game does NOT just mean raids/OPs but everything... end game solo quests, FPs, OPs, simply stuff to do. It is a rare player that will just play KOTOR or DA:O non-stop, day after day, week after week and month after month for a year or more.

Now with that out of the way, I have detailed elsewhere, as have others how this game was made on a smaller budget than previous expansions, how the game itself, according to earnings calls has not been performing to expectations AND perhaps most importantly how the CFO at Q3 2015 call basically publically called out BW to grow specifically because of the new movie.

This expac is about new players, they sold it as they did simply to try and minimize existing player losses. It really is that simple.

I know it doesn't mean release it, I am not an idiot so please don't be patronizing. What it means however if that in the announcement where Eric said "no new on PvE" (note not elder game so that means legit new repeatable solo content as well) indicates they haven't even started on it. I would not expect new content of that sort until MAYBE August or September at the earliest if they started it last month. No news at all, not even a "we are working on development now and we will give you a release time frame when we see how fast we are progressing" would be acceptable. No news? Not so much.

 

Next, you are being obtuse. Is there new repeatable content on either of those new planets? Nope. Odessen is basically the new fleet where we get quests to go and do what we have done 1000 times before. Zakuul is essentially a solo instance and it is not repeatable. So again, wrong.

 

Well funny that because A LOT of the people who saw that are calling BS on your claim. Why don't you check your account, I just did to confirm it. Other than when I get coins what do I see..."oh wait"... "In game purchase.". That's it....in game purchase and while I have seen ONE person make the claim you did, that they can see the items they bought, EVERYONE else has said they see what I said. So try again

 

As for stringing along I am not referring to the near exlusive story fan that sees the game play as a necessary evil. I am talking about the solo player who likes the story but was looking for a new world to explore, the person with a small group of friends who wanted a new FP to enjoy with them and yes the person who likes doing stuff with 8-16 people.

 

The fact you have to ignore salient features (such as the difference between our two new worlds and the past) a need to resort to patronizing language and ad hominems to defend a position. Usually that is illustrative of a weaker position.

Ah, you can't beat a bit of pontification. (To pontificate is express one's opinions in a pompous and dogmatic way <---Now THAT'S patronizing) As Hemingway said "[Do you] really think big emotions come from big words?"

It's really quite amusing, especially since you seem to have completely forgotten all your grammar in that first paragraph. If you want to try again, and this time make it so that it makes some kind of sense, then maybe I can retort. The only thing I can make out is that you don't expect to have any content till August or September (which shows a remarkable insight into the planning, coding and testing process, as well as how many people they have working on it), but you want news of it now? I think they'd maybe at least wait until they had a solid plan of what they were trying to achieve, and maybe get some feedback from the coding team to see if it's feasible, before they come running to tell you what's happening. Rest assured, they've got your email address and when it becomes absolutely essential to the continuation of the game that you find out, they'll let you know.

A lot of people are calling BS on a claim that other people claimed? Who are your "lot of people"? I've got 2 guys in my guild who got their stuff returned in the first phone call. You've got.....some people on a forum that you don't even know? Do YOU want to try again? Yes, it only says you made a purchase, but on the other hand it says you made a purchase. You know, kinda like a receipt or something, that you can use as proof of purchase. If I bought something at, I don't know, 500cc that got removed in the roll back, and my receipt says I bought something for 500cc recently (i.e. in the time that was lost due to the rollback), it doesn't take a genius of your calibre to work it out.

And there IS a new world to explore, it's just that it's obviously gated in the story, like the arena in the cantina, that's already been revealed to be part of the next chapter. Maybe if the children in the audience can hold on just a little longer, they'll get to see it. Kinda reminds me of Terry Pratchett - "wanna wanna wanna sweetie......NOW". And you DID get a new FP (actually several, if a bit similar), just because you choose to solo it, doesn't make it NOT an FP.

Lol new Ops just in time for Episode XXIV!

Good jab BW good jab!!!! *Clapping intensifies*

Ah, you can't beat a bit of pontification. (To pontificate is express one's opinions in a pompous and dogmatic way <---Now THAT'S patronizing) As Hemingway said "[Do you] really think big emotions come from big words?"

It's really quite amusing, especially since you seem to have completely forgotten all your grammar in that first paragraph. If you want to try again, and this time make it so that it makes some kind of sense, then maybe I can retort. The only thing I can make out is that you don't expect to have any content till August or September (which shows a remarkable insight into the planning, coding and testing process, as well as how many people they have working on it), but you want news of it now? I think they'd maybe at least wait until they had a solid plan of what they were trying to achieve, and maybe get some feedback from the coding team to see if it's feasible, before they come running to tell you what's happening. Rest assured, they've got your email address and when it becomes absolutely essential to the continuation of the game that you find out, they'll let you know.

And starting with an ad hominem (proving my point yet again.). Smart phones as I am sure you know are not the best way to be grammar perfect. If you can not see how all the statements about how the instance freezing to to make new content development easier, a categorical statement that new development would start etc., followed by a blatant "no news" period, will make people feel like they were strung along, there really is no point in debating the issue. I totally understand that it may not be important to you and as such any excuse works, but even some very story oriented people on these forums had to acknowledge, after that announcement, that people looking for traditional, repeatable, MMORPG content are justified in feeling like they are being strung along.

A lot of people are calling BS on a claim that other people claimed? Who are your "lot of people"? I've got 2 guys in my guild who got their stuff returned in the first phone call. You've got.....some people on a forum that you don't even know? Do YOU want to try again? Yes, it only says you made a purchase, but on the other hand it says you made a purchase. You know, kinda like a receipt or something, that you can use as proof of purchase. If I bought something at, I don't know, 500cc that got removed in the roll back, and my receipt says I bought something for 500cc recently (i.e. in the time that was lost due to the rollback), it doesn't take a genius of your calibre to work it out.

On these forum threads about the issue, I invite you to use the search feature. Also if I wasn't on my cell phone I would screen shot my account page and show the fact that there are no specifically named items on it. So based on what I can prove (via my own experience) and the fact this proof is collaborated by the statements from others then I have to seriously question your claim. The fact that again, people on these forums have said CSRs have told them that they can see the Cartel Coins were spent but the records do not specify for what and as such the item can not be returned and Cartel coins can not be refunded.

And there IS a new world to explore, it's just that it's obviously gated in the story, like the arena in the cantina, that's already been revealed to be part of the next chapter. Maybe if the children in the audience can hold on just a little longer, they'll get to see it. Kinda reminds me of Terry Pratchett - "wanna wanna wanna sweetie......NOW". And you DID get a new FP (actually several, if a bit similar), just because you choose to solo it, doesn't make it NOT an FP.

First you make a HUGE assumption. You assume that Zakuul is going to become, in August, some big open world for us to explore. Currently there is only evidence to the contrary. I don't base decisions on wishful thinking but on what I can actually see and prove. Also the lack of selling this is rather telling. With all the complaining about forced level sync, and the lack of new content outside of the serialized story, you don't think a statement would be made about unlocking the world via the story, even if only to mollify the player base?

Second what new FP? I have a single solo instance not a FP. Even then there is little tangible difference between any worlds H2 SF (even the final boss fight is the same mechanically, you just want to interrupt a different ability on each Exarch.) Everything else tied to this expansion is recycled.

It seems to me you are simply happy with the way things are and rather than say "okay, if those things are important to you I could see you being pissed" you have to ignore facts, patronize and engage in ad hominems.

All of you should get together and make a AAA MMO.. You have all the answers. It would be epic!

I make better money than a dev...why should I bother? There are also games out there, not WoW, that are doing better than SWTOR because they don't have the issues many of us are speaking of. I am playing one of them right now when I am not attending guild functions here. Tbh the ONLY thing that keeps me logging into SWTOR is the fact my guild still has a presence, otherwise I'd be exclusively playing the other game exclusively.

and to patronize again.

 

 

 

And starting with an ad hominem (proving my point yet again.). Smart phones as I am sure you know are not the best way to be grammar perfect. If you can not see how all the statements about how the instance freezing to to make new content development easier, a categorical statement that new development would start etc., followed by a blatant "no news" period, will make people feel like they were strung along, there really is no point in debating the issue. I totally understand that it may not be important to you and as such any excuse works, but even some very story oriented people on these forums had to acknowledge, after that announcement, that people looking for traditional, repeatable, MMORPG content are justified in feeling like they are being strung along.

 

 

 

On these forum threads about the issue, I invite you to use the search feature. Also if I wasn't on my cell phone I would screen shot my account page and show the fact that there are no specifically named items on it. So based on what I can prove (via my own experience) and the fact this proof is collaborated by the statements from others then I have to seriously question your claim. The fact that again, people on these forums have said CSRs have told them that they can see the Cartel Coins were spent but the records do not specify for what and as such the item can not be returned and Cartel coins can not be refunded.

 

 

 

First you make a HUGE assumption. You assume that Zakuul is going to become, in August, some big open world for us to explore. Currently there is only evidence to the contrary. I don't base decisions on wishful thinking but on what I can actually see and prove. Also the lack of selling this is rather telling. With all the complaining about forced level sync, and the lack of new content outside of the serialized story, you don't think a statement would be made about unlocking the world via the story, even if only to mollify the player base?

 

Second what new FP? I have a single solo instance not a FP. Even then there is little tangible difference between any worlds H2 SF (even the final boss fight is the same mechanically, you just want to interrupt a different ability on each Exarch.) Everything else tied to this expansion is recycled.

 

It seems to me you are simply happy with the way things are and rather than say "okay, if those things are important to you I could see you being pissed" you have to ignore facts, patronize and engage in ad hominems.

But but how else will the BW Devs spend their time shilling and ****posting on the forums in their spare time of not playing this game?

The ops statement seems overly broad and unfairly judgmental to me, but that does not mean I feel it lacks merit.

I personally feel that Bioware is not necessarily incompetent, but they do seem to lack a sense of intuition when it comes to their playerbase.

Things that I feel would be generally obvious seem to escape them sometimes on the surface, though it may be more complicated than that. Of course I may be completely off base, but some things they do do seem, at least to me, to do them no favors.

What I do find common with this company is their ability to create such brilliant changes and additions to the game, coupled with completely foolish or shortsighted changes and mistakes....and they exist as a common dichotomy.

They will obviously wish to cater to casual players and make changes that do so, and then make a change that will most likely be reviled by casual players, all in the same turn. If this is to strike balance, this is the strangest way to do so IMO.

I think it is more likely they make changes without considering the impact on the playerbase, and I think ONE person is responsible for this. I will not mention the name, as that would be inappropriate, but I would suspect that many employees secretly feel the same way, but can say or do nothing about it.

This game used to have one particular employee that was the central point of almost all bad decisions, and for a short time the game flourished in my opinion after he left....

Until the new employee returned the game to this foolish but consistent behavior. Ready, fire, aim.

It seems to me that some changes are not even tested properly, never mind actually DEVELOPED in an intuitive manner.

Most of the changes, IMO, could have been received much better if executed properly from the get go. One example is the resource changes....despite some small defects, overall the changes to crafting in this aspect were positive, at least IMO, and accepted as positive. I see very few complaints in our outside the game.

I expect there is a reason for this....it is likely, IMO, this one particular employee had NOTHING to do with this change.

In fact, I might pose that most of the good changes have nothing to do with this person, and almost all of the bad changes are directly from this persons mind and vision for the game and it's direction.

The only solution? This particular person does not belong in the position held. They need to move on or step down IMO. ONLY THEN will the game right itself.

and to patronize again.

 

And starting with an ad hominem (proving my point yet again.). Smart phones as I am sure you know are not the best way to be grammar perfect. If you can not see how all the statements about how the instance freezing to to make new content development easier, a categorical statement that new development would start etc., followed by a blatant "no news" period, will make people feel like they were strung along, there really is no point in debating the issue. I totally understand that it may not be important to you and as such any excuse works, but even some very story oriented people on these forums had to acknowledge, after that announcement, that people looking for traditional, repeatable, MMORPG content are justified in feeling like they are being strung along.

 

On these forum threads about the issue, I invite you to use the search feature. Also if I wasn't on my cell phone I would screen shot my account page and show the fact that there are no specifically named items on it. So based on what I can prove (via my own experience) and the fact this proof is collaborated by the statements from others then I have to seriously question your claim. The fact that again, people on these forums have said CSRs have told them that they can see the Cartel Coins were spent but the records do not specify for what and as such the item can not be returned and Cartel coins can not be refunded.

 

First you make a HUGE assumption. You assume that Zakuul is going to become, in August, some big open world for us to explore. Currently there is only evidence to the contrary. I don't base decisions on wishful thinking but on what I can actually see and prove. Also the lack of selling this is rather telling. With all the complaining about forced level sync, and the lack of new content outside of the serialized story, you don't think a statement would be made about unlocking the world via the story, even if only to mollify the player base?

 

Second what new FP? I have a single solo instance not a FP. Even then there is little tangible difference between any worlds H2 SF (even the final boss fight is the same mechanically, you just want to interrupt a different ability on each Exarch.) Everything else tied to this expansion is recycled.

 

It seems to me you are simply happy with the way things are and rather than say "okay, if those things are important to you I could see you being pissed" you have to ignore facts, patronize and engage in ad hominems.

Did..........did you start by telling me I'm being patronizing, when I told you that I was being patronizing? There's no need to repeat the things I wrote, I know about them. I wrote them. Pity you missed my point about your pontificating. If only THAT had been the bit that sunk in. Ah, well, if wishes were kisses (or something).

Smartphone or not, I'm having a really difficult time following your statement. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you are saying, but it seems like you have chosen yourself as a spokesperson for a large chunk of the community. And you keep using this phrase "strung along". Surely from a business point if view, it's a good thing to keep people "strung along". Back to my Game of Thrones analogy, if they gave you every episode all at once, they have to either keep coming up with more content as fast as you can watch it, or have you moving on to another show/channel. Keeping people "strung along" keeps the money coming in, and it's actually one of the reasons why the show is enjoyable, you have to wait to see what happens. Wanna sweetie?

Yes, I'm making assumptions about Zakuul (but not really that huge, as you claim). If you go there, there's a chunk of the map that you can't get to (if you press 'M', you access a local map, and in the bottom right corner, you see the map of the world - this is what we call "evidence" that you can "see" and "prove"). I "assume" you will get to go there in the story. Plus, I already mentioned this, but there's the arena. It has been confirmed that you will get to go there. OK, it's maybe not as big a map as Makeb, but there is still more to discover. What's your evidence to the contrary?

Moving on, you're now trying to argue with me by agreeing with me about the bit where I agreed with you. Maybe it's that tiny smartphone screen, or maybe it's the blinding red mist of "forum rage". Again, I agreed with you that the account page does only say you bought something. The point I made was that it is still a receipt for goods purchased at a time that can be traced to the time lost by the rollback. The whole point of having that page is so that you have comeback in case something you bought hasn't been delivered. It's a receipt. It's what it's for.

Where was I.....oh, yes, flashpoints - "Band together with your most trusted allies to undertake some of the most dangerous missions in the galaxy! Flashpoints are action-packed, story-driven adventures that test a group of players to their limits, putting them up against difficult foes in volatile situations. You and your group need your wits, your skills, and all your resources to emerge victorious" Sounds like the Star Fortress to me (at least, until they made the companions all-powerful)

Again with the "ad hominem" - did you just hear about it? You seem pretty desperate to throw around that you knew a bit of Latin. You DO understand what it means, don't you? Sodomy non sapiens.

Wow. This expansion seriously polarized a gaming community that has stood fast and vehemently supported this game's vision through thick and thin. And there has been a LOT of thin over the years. Leave no core player behind appears to be dead to this franchise's owners (not developers). SWTOR has become a shell of what it once was, having sold out to the potential Force Awakens market. What they'll get is an influx of MMO vagabonds that will be gone in three months.

Death to the immortal (literally) solo mode Jeezus droids ... death to level sync for killing balance ... and death to tacticals for killing progression. One-size-fits-all idiot-proof socialism ftw.

Where was I.....oh, yes, flashpoints - "Band together with your most trusted allies to undertake some of the most dangerous missions in the galaxy! Flashpoints are action-packed, story-driven adventures that test a group of players to their limits, putting them up against difficult foes in volatile situations. You and your group need your wits, your skills, and all your resources to emerge victorious" Sounds like the Star Fortress to me (at least, until they made the companions all-powerful)

This made me laugh so hard I woke up the dog. Great jokes!!!! SF are hard bahahahahahaahahahahahahahahah!!!!!

MFW

OP: Perfect, mirroring my own POW.

Btw, you forgot to mention Level Sync...worst piece piece of crap in history. One of my interests the last half a year before 4.0 was running old content to get more achievements. Now I can't be bothered aggroing all packs i run near.

Less reason to log in for me.

The ops statement seems overly broad and unfairly judgmental to me, but that does not mean I feel it lacks merit.

 

I personally feel that Bioware is not necessarily incompetent, but they do seem to lack a sense of intuition when it comes to their playerbase.

 

Things that I feel would be generally obvious seem to escape them sometimes on the surface, though it may be more complicated than that. Of course I may be completely off base, but some things they do do seem, at least to me, to do them no favors.

 

What I do find common with this company is their ability to create such brilliant changes and additions to the game, coupled with completely foolish or shortsighted changes and mistakes....and they exist as a common dichotomy.

 

They will obviously wish to cater to casual players and make changes that do so, and then make a change that will most likely be reviled by casual players, all in the same turn. If this is to strike balance, this is the strangest way to do so IMO.

 

I think it is more likely they make changes without considering the impact on the playerbase, and I think ONE person is responsible for this. I will not mention the name, as that would be inappropriate, but I would suspect that many employees secretly feel the same way, but can say or do nothing about it.

 

This game used to have one particular employee that was the central point of almost all bad decisions, and for a short time the game flourished in my opinion after he left....

 

Until the new employee returned the game to this foolish but consistent behavior. Ready, fire, aim.

 

It seems to me that some changes are not even tested properly, never mind actually DEVELOPED in an intuitive manner.

 

Most of the changes, IMO, could have been received much better if executed properly from the get go. One example is the resource changes....despite some small defects, overall the changes to crafting in this aspect were positive, at least IMO, and accepted as positive. I see very few complaints in our outside the game.

 

I expect there is a reason for this....it is likely, IMO, this one particular employee had NOTHING to do with this change.

 

In fact, I might pose that most of the good changes have nothing to do with this person, and almost all of the bad changes are directly from this persons mind and vision for the game and it's direction.

 

The only solution? This particular person does not belong in the position held. They need to move on or step down IMO. ONLY THEN will the game right itself.

It's not only the above though, imo. What you speak of, and what many defenders focus on, and try to dismiss, is simply the foundation of the issue. The issue really pushing this over the edge is what I was referring to when I mentioned seeing examples of what we are experiencing at initial launches BUT not updates 4 years on. Bugs and bonafide mistakes....

1. Though I don't pretend to know the cause, some players who had existing romances do not have the option to acknowledge them in the exchange with Valkorian. For story/companion oriented people this is important.

2.a few weeks of corpses not despawning creating performance issues that were actually game breaking.

3. Bugged encounters in content that has been around for 2 or more years that did not have said bugs.

4. Companions playing nudist.

5. A known exploit allowed to exist for almost 2 months and then when the round up happens rounding up innocent people and forcing them to prove their innocence. For simple stuff...one person showed via the emails that all he had done was make good many selling Cartel Market items. Apparently making a lot of credits now alone is enough to be suspected of exploiting?

6. Servers suddenly kicking people out and throwing them in queues and then roll backs. Forget about the consequences some will try to deny, the server instability is an issue.

7. The on again off again nature of the GTN.

8. Subscribers not getting thei monthly CC stipend

They are numerous other bugs but the point is this. When you have issues with some of the content...if the basics works and you have good will you are far more likely to hang around and give them a chance to sort things out. When you have issues with the content however on top of all the bugs, is too much for more than a few. Heck I got some people to try it just because of the story. These potential new players said "thanks but I am gone" JUST because of the bugs.

I stopped reading at the point where OP started using words like "proven" and "everyone".

With how most threads on these forums, heck most forums, start with such hyperbolic generalizations you must stop reading quite a bit. Not a bust on you, just that there are few threads that don't have " everyone" or "the vast majority" etc.

One thing though, it is pretty much proven that the story, thus far, has no real consequence. Example, the only difference between my JK saying "to the escape pods" and my Commando saying "then we take as many of them with us as we can?" Some dark side points, a different cinematic and a different E-mail. In terms of effecting my character for the rest of the story...nothing, and it has been like that with all the decisions I have tried.

Now remember that is not talking about a matter of opinion, is the story good or bad etc... It is only talking about the "real consequence" bit that they seriously oversold. Now I actually think the lack of real consequence is likely a good thing. How many times in the past have we seen people complaining about consequences in the class stories forcing a particular path? A lot of people want to play their own way. Another good example of this is the people who say "I am glad my companion can do everything because I hated <insert companion name here>!!!". My only issue is how they oversold the consequences.

OK, here we go -

I still take time to play despite levelling up over 60 characters (I know, I'm so 1337 ), and while I love getting my achievements, I purposefully don't go on OPs where they demand you have to have one. So, don't tell me what I've done, especially when I haven't done it. And I'd appreciate it if you asked my opinion, if not my permission, to speak on my behalf.

Not sure if serious...but I guess I should add more I into whatever I typed and whenever I type something out in the future so YOU do not feel like I speak on YOUR behalf. Might as well just laugh it off but it just seemed like a very strange statement....

Nothing new? I know, it's been said before that the "replayability" of the new story isn't great, but you really can't say there's nothing new right after an expansion, no matter how short it is.

There is nothing new....like, nothing new, stop playing fanboy because there is NOTHING new....being in denial does not help any1....sorry, any one. The expansion and the content within can be done under a month, and after that doing it again with different conversation choices alters nothing. Still remains to be seen what are decisions will influence besides companion influence but it is an MMO, I am sure Bioware can not make things seperate for one group of people, while the other side who chose differently get the opossite.

You've never went past SM OPs, but you are complaining of the lack of endgame content. I'll just leave that comment as is, I don't think it needs anything else.

Point being what? You just proved my point as some...one who considers content to be doing the same on a harder difficulty, so I will just leave you with that and let ppl, sorry people decide to sort this out for themselves. I have read this kind of response on fleet and I just do not get how doing the same on a harder difficulty is anything but time spent doing the same. If people like this, kudos to them, and if we are talking about operations then the OP mentioned NiM loot issues, so I will leave you with that.

Something something complaint about companions when you say you only do PvP? Do you bring them out just to look at them between matches?

I should just leave this as blank space but you are obviously clueless about what I was talking about, or just ignorant and try to add 2, sorry two seperate things together so you can defend BWs, sorry, Biowares incompetence and simplification of this game...I am sure most ppl, sorry people, got my message and the meaning of my words. Little hint, companions are a huge part of the 1-50 story of each class, they are what drives the story forward, thing about that once and when you are done, think about it again....

"Speaking as a founder..." - wow, that old chestnut. Talk about flexing your achievements at random people.

It is not an achievement...but thank you very much for once again proving my point that you can not understand even the basic difference between time spent and time past.

 

Man, I love the irony of people using their right as a subscription holder to use the forums, to rant about how the subscription isn't worth anything. "Might as well start walking", but walk REALLY slowly, and tell us ALL about it while you do.

I agreed with the OP that the sub is not worth to me anymore. Yes, I did it by writing I and once again I several times over so ppl, sorry people see that it was my opinion. In the age of facebook/twitter/instagram etc I do not see an issue with this. Just my 2cents, sorry I forgot to add this to the end of my post but just for you I will end it on that note.

 

Oh, and "2gether"? Are you too busy to actually type "together", pressing that extra one key, or do you think it adds some credibility to your forum "cred" to do that?

It is actually not an issue, I am certanly not looking for forum cred, sorry credit, I know how to draw out a pointless commentator like yourself who does not see that I wish for new ppl, sorry people to give this game a try because for them there is content, plenty of it even.

If you can not see that the so called veterans, (sorry if it makes you butthurt but yea) the old ones who have been around for some time find the amount of content lacking and do not chase achievements...which again, is about time past and not time spent, as you can not get the Founder title again and not to be in your face but it means only that you saw how the game started and what it was and what it could have been compared to what it is today. The expectations and the first experience `we`had when the game came out.

If you do not get that part then plz, sorry please enjoy your HM/NiM content and the recycle of what we have had for years, or just not to hurt your feelings, what I had for years.

Just for the likes of you I will end it with something you can relate to, or at least I hope so. I wanted new content, something new to experience and I had that with KotFE. It lasted for about 2, sorry two weeks and now it is done. And yea, about forum posts, there are always about 1 person giving his opinion, which apparently in your case helped me more to prove my own views than my original post.

Ty for that.

Just my 2cents

Every game has bugs after expacs. Google "wow wod bugs" for some spectacular ones and Wow has more R&D/QC money in its pinky than this entire game has.

KotFE's bug rates are surprisingly light compared to other games and to previous expacs like SoR and RotHC (I would say RotHC had the most game breaking issues if I was doing a comparison). The balance patches have not been fun but those weren't bug related. The exploits weren't good but most of the problem with those was in BW's handling of them (slow to discover, slow to fix, messy fix). For an MMO, KotFE was actually very polished. People saying otherwise are either very inexperienced or have very bad memories.

The game for me is there is quite a bit I like,

level Sync, No more companion Gear, getting decent Crystal armor up to glowing and a couple pieces of radiant, adding datacrons to legacy

I agree with KOTFE - they added a great story line at the expense of the specific class story lines experienced in core worlds. It is the same Imperial, Republic, Jedi Knight to Bounty Hunter. Maybe in future chapters decisions will play a role right now its hard to replay after the 3rd time.

Crafting is not better, the addition of required components is seriously a backwards trip to the 80's and EQ2 when you have to make things that have no point to them. It was way better the other way just using resources. Losing all the work I had on Purple Barrels to get them wiped out and now only blues and have to reverse engineer all over again. All other MMO's EQ2, LOTRO removed components and SWTOR did the complete opposite.

removing the level requirement for harvesting was positive. Adding non-LS non-DS relics is a positive change and they are now available at lower levels.

The absolute worst change for me was they have moved into a direction of forced grouping which has been and very well might be here a game killer for me. Can't get mainhand weapons unless you do OP's - Crafting components for purples HM SM or OP's. Radiant Crystals OP's or HM SM FP's. I want to be able to group on my terms not feel that I am forced to group just to upgrade a basic crystal or glowing crystal mainhand weapon.

I can agree that Radiant being the best making that a group required component is ok with me and hard work reaps the rewards. But just like Basic Crystal and Glowing Crystal armor those weapons should not require grouping.

The customer service is poor on numerous accounts. How many people lost CC's or items on a server roleback that was clearly their problem then CS tells users too bad, tough. So BW does nothing to solve it and shows that players do not matter in their eyes.

It is still a decent game but unless they resolve issues and start paying attention to the player base it will never be a great game.

Every game has bugs after expacs. Google "wow wod bugs" for some spectacular ones and Wow has more R&D/QC money in its pinky than this entire game has.

 

KotFE's bug rates are surprisingly light compared to other games and to previous expacs like SoR and RotHC (I would say RotHC had the most game breaking issues if I was doing a comparison). The balance patches have not been fun but those weren't bug related. The exploits weren't good but most of the problem with those was in BW's handling of them (slow to discover, slow to fix, messy fix). For an MMO, KotFE was actually very polished. People saying otherwise are either very inexperienced or have very bad memories.

Yes but how much faster were they fixed, even though their servers were getting jacked by a DDOS attack (which made somethings look bugged but weren't).

Literally game breaking bugs lasting for weeks.

WELL KNOWN exploits lasting for months, it actually wasn't slow to discover, not only myself but a number of other people reported it to them over 6 weeks ago,so either their Community peeps suck or they were just SLOW to fix it. When they fixed it they used a simplistic method to identify violators that resulted in people who just made a lot of credits quick get punished. They didn't bother to check HOW they made the credits, like my cousin who made them selling some rare stuff he bought with RL money off the cartel market.

Companions so clearly overpowered a simple weekend of testing could have told them they over shot their expressed goals no by a KM or MI but by an AU. Also look at it as a matter of scale. What do we have new here...

The servers going completely **** up without a DDOS attack and then people getting rolled back, some losing real money in the process...then being told by EA CSRs "sorry nothing we can do."

But lets look at the matters of scale... here

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/10202015/game-update-4.0-knights-fallen-empire-early-access

What did that bring?

The "Beta"/Expansion; http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13423478/warlords-of-draenor%E2%84%A2-beta-patch-notes-august-27-8-27-2014

then

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15682579/the-iron-tide-602-patch-notes-10-13-2014 just 2 months later

I could go on but I think my point is made. Bugs are created by changes. When little is changed there should be fewer bugs. There is little in this expac to justify not simply the number of bugs but how stupidly long it takes to fix them.

Now note I do not blame the devs themselves, their budget was obviously cut pretty hard and the engine they are working with resembles a Rube Goldberg Machine, they can only do as much as the engine and resources allow. That said, while we should acknowledge that we should also acknowledge the results of that dynamic

Yes but how much faster were they fixed, even though their servers were getting jacked by a DDOS attack (which made somethings look bugged but weren't).

 

Literally game breaking bugs lasting for weeks.

 

WELL KNOWN exploits lasting for months, it actually wasn't slow to discover, not only myself but a number of other people reported it to them over 6 weeks ago,so either their Community peeps suck or they were just SLOW to fix it. When they fixed it they used a simplistic method to identify violators that resulted in people who just made a lot of credits quick get punished. They didn't bother to check HOW they made the credits, like my cousin who made them selling some rare stuff he bought with RL money off the cartel market.

 

Companions so clearly overpowered a simple weekend of testing could have told them they over shot their expressed goals no by a KM or MI but by an AU. Also look at it as a matter of scale. What do we have new here...

 

The servers going completely **** up without a DDOS attack and then people getting rolled back, some losing real money in the process...then being told by EA CSRs "sorry nothing we can do."

 

But lets look at the matters of scale... here

 

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/10202015/game-update-4.0-knights-fallen-empire-early-access

 

What did that bring?

The "Beta"/Expansion; http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13423478/warlords-of-draenor%E2%84%A2-beta-patch-notes-august-27-8-27-2014

 

then

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/15682579/the-iron-tide-602-patch-notes-10-13-2014 just 2 months later

 

I could go on but I think my point is made. Bugs are created by changes. When little is changed there should be fewer bugs. There is little in this expac to justify not simply the number of bugs but how stupidly long it takes to fix them.

 

Now note I do not blame the devs themselves, their budget was obviously cut pretty hard and the engine they are working with resembles a Rube Goldberg Machine, they can only do as much as the engine and resources allow. That said, while we should acknowledge that we should also acknowledge the results of that dynamic

"There is little in this expac to justify not simply the number of bugs but how stupidly long it takes to fix them"

Stop. Think about that statement. Compare this to the content from before, say 3.0, and revisit that line of logic. There isn't "a little" in this content. There's quite a bit. You have to go outside the story to see it iall. 9 operations from story mode to hard mode re-scaled. How many flashpoints re-scaled? How many heroics re-done? 9 chapters worth of integrated cinematics and areas of zakuul/ asylum, gravestone etc. New characters included. Star fortresses, alliance. The idea that "this expac is this tiny little thing is truly the most brain dead thign I might have ever heard you say. You're literally doing what I accused you of before by taking a premise, and filling in the blanks with only things you know can support it and by doing so totally screwing up the point. Whether there's a lot of content available for you in this expac is one thing i.e content you truly love and want more of

If you're going to act like there's nothing in this expansion then you're just not being realistic and you shouldn't taken seriously. Look at 3.0 for game breaking bugs. The final Revan fight? Ravagers? I mean come on. You can't just ignore the pasts because you want to. It's DECEMBER. This expac has been live for how long? Almost 2? How long did 3.0 bugs take to fix? It's simply not as simple as you want to believe it to be. 2 months of live, and also where we know that there will be down time from the employees since they've earned a break and are taking advantage of it? This is what I'm talking about from earlier. This is a slow time for the game. Every expac launches, and then the slow time follows. Which is why February will be the tell tale month.. Slow down!

i cant justify paying a sub for a game that is so unsupported.

bw is short staffed and utterly incompetent. this game is one cruise control and no one pays attn.