"Conquest people" queue specifically to get alts through conquest. Or we did pre 5.8.

Now that it's so alt unfriendly, we're NOT queueing anymore.

 

That's fewer people queueing for PVP, for GF FPs, and even for GF ops (however infrequently you think it's done).

THAT means it takes longer for people not concerned about conquest for those queues to pop.

Especially for WZs and GSF.

 

I really hope you can understand how that happens.

Ask yourself if conquest didnt exist at all, would people queue?

If their intent is to limit conquest by alts being in different guilds, then they should never have allowed us to put characters in multiple guilds and changed the guild member cap to accounts and not individual members. This game is designed around alts so we can see all of the stories, and legacy was one of the first things introduced after launch.

Just because the game, as a whole, is designed around alts, doesnt mean every aspect must be designed around alts. NIM content isnt alt friendly since it requires gearing up or mastering multiple toons. GF isnt alt friendly, ask the DPS toons in queue for hours. PvP isnt tank alt friendly when u have to create a new set of dps gear for your tank.

Here's something for you guys at BW to take into consideration.

When you purchase a product and it has reviews and 8 out of 10 of those reviews are bad reviews, are you going to purchase that product or try to find a better product?

I hope you are ignoring all of the trolling that's being done in an attempt to discredit other's experiences and opinions.

Here's something for you guys at BW to take into consideration.

 

When you purchase a product and it has reviews and 8 out of 10 of those reviews are bad reviews, are you going to purchase that product or try to find a better product?

 

I hope you are ignoring all of the trolling that's being done in an attempt to discredit other's experiences and opinions.

Reviews on the web arent horrible.

Besides most intelligent people will try F2p and see if they enjoy it themselves, and it doesn't cost them anything.

Old system, 15k in a few hours time.

New System, playing all day, less than 2k.

Seems legit...

Old system, 15k in a few hours time.

New System, playing all day, less than 2k.

 

Seems legit...

No doubt.

Honestly speaking, I never realized just how indepth conquest went. I have learned a ton about the old conquest system just by reading the criticisms and comparisons of that to the new system.

Sadly, the same thing can apparently be said about the people that designed this new, "improved" version of it.

SNy

"Conquest people" queue specifically to get alts through conquest. Or we did pre 5.8.

Now that it's so alt unfriendly, we're NOT queueing anymore.

 

That's fewer people queueing for PVP, for GF FPs, and even for GF ops (however infrequently you think it's done).

THAT means it takes longer for people not concerned about conquest for those queues to pop.

Especially for WZs and GSF.

 

I really hope you can understand how that happens.

Reading his quote of me makes me LOL because no, he does not understand.

You do realize that you're supporting someone who is deliberately stating she doesn't want to help the community because she has nothing to gain from it, right? If conquest wasnt here, she has essentially stated that she wouldnt participate.

 

Sounds like swtor is not for her.

You do not speak for me, nor do you even correctly interpret my words. Just stop.

Played every single part of this game and have been paying to play it since December 20, 2011. Clearly, SWTOR is not for me...

.

You do realize that you're supporting someone who is deliberately stating she doesn't want to help the community because she has nothing to gain from it, right? If conquest wasnt here, she has essentially stated that she wouldnt participate.

 

Sounds like swtor is not for her.

Your strawman is leaking hay.

I did not support anyone. I pointed out your deliberate dishonesty in quoting one half of a sentence out of context to make it into the opposite of the original poster's intent. Try addressing that instead of deflecting.

SWTOR is a game. You are not the arbiter of who it is for and who it is not for, or what factors might go into that decision for anyone other than you. If enough people do decide it's not for them, it will cease to be offered. Then you will have to find another forum on which to seek an argument.

Just chiming in before bed to say that I just had a very frustrating experience on Star Forge. My guild does World Bosses weekly as a fun event, and when they're a Conquest Objective, we like rolling those in particular (it helps when they're also Priority Targets).

Well, Trapjaw was gone on all four instances on Tatooine, and R4-GL was gone on all three instances of Nar Shaddaa. Seems to me that there are indeed still many guilds actively participating in Conquest, to my own guild's detriment. I mean, we ran the event, finished the {WEEKLY}, and had fun doing it. But of course we didn't get Conquest points for Primal Destroyer, Ulgo Siegebreaker, Rogue Cartel Warbot, Gargath, or Subject Alpha (the latter just a bonus). All five of those bosses were up on whatever instance we happened to zone in on.

So yeah, still some guilds out there doing Conquest. And making me wonder if we'll have to reschedule our guild events to compensate

Just chiming in before bed to say that I just had a very frustrating experience on Star Forge. My guild does World Bosses weekly as a fun event, and when they're a Conquest Objective, we like rolling those in particular (it helps when they're also Priority Targets).

 

Well, Trapjaw was gone on all four instances on Tatooine, and R4-GL was gone on all three instances of Nar Shaddaa. Seems to me that there are indeed still many guilds actively participating in Conquest, to my own guild's detriment. I mean, we ran the event, finished the {WEEKLY}, and had fun doing it. But of course we didn't get Conquest points for Primal Destroyer, Ulgo Siegebreaker, Rogue Cartel Warbot, Gargath, or Subject Alpha (the latter just a bonus). All five of those bosses were up on whatever instance we happened to zone in on.

 

So yeah, still some guilds out there doing Conquest. And making me wonder if we'll have to reschedule our guild events to compensate

Most typically, if those bosses are being killed for conquest points, they would both be hit by the same group at least once. So all this proves is that 3 to 4 guilds are still doing world bosses for conquest points.

Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

.

PennyAnn,

If you ever respond to Olag again, I'm going to send you a very, very sternly worded private message!

Dasty

PennyAnn,

 

If you ever respond to Olag again, I'm going to send you a very, very sternly worded private message!

 

Dasty

I put him back on ignore (only took him off to respond to him after seeing him misquote me and be snarky).

But... I might do it just to get a PM from Dasty.... <3

I put him back on ignore (only took him off to respond to him after seeing him misquote me and be snarky).

 

But... I might do it just to get a PM from Dasty.... <3

I got my first ever forum warning today about something I guess I said about this poster whom I dare not name so I need to be careful now what I say. But although I’m nowhere near the forum legend of Dasty, if you meet the conditions he set forth again about that poster who shall not be named, I too will spam your inbox with a sternly-worded PM.

As long as your post was you put some work into it, however have you actually played participated in an actual conquest yet, instead of reading about it? if you actually have I'd be interested in what you actually think, also whats the size of your guild (active accounts) and how many are actually participating.

 

The old system was far superior to this new one, the only thing that was a step in the right direction was having the Planetary Yield thresholds, however the objectives are very bad compared to how it was. All the new objectives are doing it driving away players that played alts, also ones that were very active in GF for PVE and PVP activities and it causes players to play the game much less now.

1. Thank you for reading my post. I commend you on that, I know it was a long read.

2. Yes I've done conquest. A bunch of times before I stopped playing and for a few weeks since I came back. Ironically, my guild (Rebellion on Satele Shan) was winning Nar Shadaa last week on Sunday so perhaps I'm biased on this (I don't know if we actually won as I went on a trip Sunday morning.) Still I believe my guild to be very casual and we went for the medium threshold yield. As of Sunday I was the 3rd highest toon in my guild for CQ at 42k. I did actually do Herocis, since the CXP was ridiculous for it, but I justified that because I was queuing for ranked pvp and that can take forever.

I'm on a trip right now so I can't give you the total active accounts. I do know my guild leader just recruits various people to build up the guild and cleans out inactives after 30 days. We generally have a bunch of active accounts likely contributing to conquest from just normal gameplay. My one toon got a ton of conquest points doing mainly PVP and GF, with a couple heroics. Granted I really just play that one toon so that perhaps helps the alt argument. That's the thing though. My opinion is going to be different from anyone that plays a ton of alts as I never personally understood the point of it. I get seeing all the stories, and maybe having an advanced class per faction (you know with FOTM and all), but at most in my most ideal situation that's 16 toons. Again, that's my perspective on it. It is what it is.

People were creating tons of alts well before conquest. I think conquest supplemented those players, but I think it went a little too far for reasons mentioned in my previous post. I find it odd you ask if I've done conquest when you don't even address my major gripe with the previous system of guilds having multiple versions of the same guild. I wouldn't know about that facet nor have participated in it had I not actually done conquest and had a grasp of how to get achievements for it previously.

Your post is indeed TL;DR while I'm at work (maybe later ; ), but the highlighted part I need to comment on. My guild has over 800 characters in it, and over 200 "qualifying accounts", but we do not have the focus, as a guild, to even make the Medium Yield. Last week, only nine characters in my guild got their 15k points - as a guild we got 250k (about 60k on Sunday).

 

The size of the guild is not necessarily proportionate to their activity levels in Conquest. We're a friendly guild of casuals that promote Conquest (we reward the Top 3 non-officer Legacies), but don't force it (only two took our money last week - we didn't even have three regular members meet their personal Conquest goals). Solely looking at an account or character count would screw us something terrible.

 

There are other solutions, I think:

1. Limit the number of Conquest Points a single character can earn (maybe not 15k, but not 100k either)
   
2. Consider the Conquest activity of the Guild the previous week (if the Guild scores more than 50% over the Medium Yield's value one week, they can't invade the Small Yield target the next, for example)
   
3. Put a ceiling on Guild points - ties for first, all those qualifying members in each Guild get their chievos and titles

 

Like I said, at work, so not much time at the moment to work through more options, but yeah. Don't limit my Guild to needing 1.13 million points based on headcount, please.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when I say high member guilds, I really mean high legacy member guilds. I believe that correction would solve you issue from reading your response. Maybe even have a qualifier of members that have logged in the past 30 days.

Again I don't think the new system is perfect, but it definitely addressed a lot of the issues I personally had with it. I still think the new system can be better and I think people that casually play the game should have opportunity to really participate in conquest. I think we generally agree on that.

If their intent is to limit conquest by alts being in different guilds, then they should never have allowed us to put characters in multiple guilds and changed the guild member cap to accounts and not individual members. This game is designed around alts so we can see all of the stories, and legacy was one of the first things introduced after launch.

 

I'm a casual player. I play maybe 15-20 hours a week on a good week. This new system does not help casuals. It does not help the smaller guilds. And until those craft guilds from the old system run out of invasion forces to donate, they're not going to have any accurate information on crafting in the new system. This last conquest week pretty much restricted anyone below level 60 from participating in anything other than PvP, GSF, FP's and the one time commander kill.

Hind sight is 20/20 and guild infrastructure was setup well before conquest came about. I think there is valid reasons to have different toons in different guilds, obviously from a faction standpoint. Though alts aren't really affected if you're doing one toon per faction. However, with the little dev team that SWTOR has left, I don't expect them to account for all possibilities. I mean do you really think they intended guilds to have multiple versions of the same guild winning conquest on multiple planets because people could put alts in different guilds? Maybe BW should've accounted for the possibility, but you can't believe that was the intended design.

There was the DvL event (unfortunately I wasn't subscribed for that), but before that I don't know that there was any incentive to make alts beyond seeing all the class stories and maybe getting rep or gear faster for ONE toon since multiple weeklies would allow for more rep and opportunities to run ops. To say the game was designed around alts at the start though is a bit much. I don't think any MMO is designed around alts more than they would like to give players options that fit their play style. SWTOR is different in that it came from a solo RPG background, so I get people wanting to see all the stories. As far as endgame though, I don't honestly believe the developers intended all players to have multiple level 50 toons, or to even see all the stories especially initially.

I can't really argue with your last point. What you say is true from my experience if you spend those 15-20 hours on multiple toons. However all I generally do is PVP, GSF and OPs so I guess I'm playing and have been playing the way BW wants me to. In that I am biased. I mentioned in my previous post there are some things I won't understand because I hate heroics and always thought crafting to win conquest was stupid. On these points we are going to just disagree.

I will say GSF, PVP, FP, and OPs are the actual content that force you to group. The major gripe when this game first came out was there wasn't enough of that (there wasn't even GSF at all). Group content imo, is the key to mmo sustainability. This game is unique in that it features excellent story in the solo and leveling process. However, as BW found out, a lot players once done with their solo stuff leave.

Also, to say smaller guilds aren't helped by the changes is not true. Maybe it doesn't help them in the way you want it to, but they have clear goals to hit instead of moving targets based on the top ten. Guilds know what the numbers to hit are and it is now stagnant allowing it to be easier to gain encryptions and build out guild ships. Before guilds would make pushes and be screwed because some guild came in in the last hour and kicked them out of 9th or 10th place. That effort was totally wasted in the previous system.

Having read a lot of gripes in this thread, it's clear to me I play the game differently than a lot of people. That's OK. I mentioned what I thought were reasonable solutions to accommodate players with multiple toons while still allowing people with limited time to play to have an impact on conquest. I'd be curious on peoples thoughts about that.

Can't be true since according to the loud mouthed drama queens here NOBODY is ever doing conquest anymore AND has no fun doing so (in this now better system if you are not ignorant and selfiish, minus the bugs of course). My guild and me do both, have fun and participate actively by learning and optimizing/adapting to the new situation, because that is was game play is all about, and not about repeating the same old same old bs over and over and every week. The new system needs a bit more brain cells and planning hence why some might have a "problem" with it. But it makes the game feel more alive again, if you are a real gamer.

I think you need more brain cells. You defend that broken system because your f...ing mass guild has a great advantage. but there are many small and medium guilds which are frustrated and their players lost fun in participating conquest.

I think you need more brain cells. You defend that broken system because your f...ing mass guild has a great advantage. but there are many small and medium guilds which are frustrated and their players lost fun in participating conquest.

I Second That!!!

Most typically, if those bosses are being killed for conquest points, they would both be hit by the same group at least once. So all this proves is that 3 to 4 guilds are still doing world bosses for conquest points.

 

Not exactly a glowing endorsement.

 

.

Three to four guilds, plus the two that we also saw searching for the bosses in vain, plus my own guild... At least a half dozen in the span of a couple of hours (between deaths and respawns) - all going for that one objective.

The way some people are talking (not necessarily you), they'd prolly be surprised that just one guild was going for it

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think when I say high member guilds, I really mean high legacy member guilds. I believe that correction would solve you issue from reading your response. Maybe even have a qualifier of members that have logged in the past 30 days.

 

Again I don't think the new system is perfect, but it definitely addressed a lot of the issues I personally had with it. I still think the new system can be better and I think people that casually play the game should have opportunity to really participate in conquest. I think we generally agree on that.

Where are you drawing that line? When many people talk about "Small" guilds, they're talking about 4-12 players. I just checked, my pubside guild has 190 accounts that count towards our rep/exp bonus (<200 does mean some have gone inactive last I checked - rip). That's 190 pref/sub that have logged in some time in the past 30 days. Is that still "Small"?

Even if it's not, what if we do go back up to 240-250 active pref/sub accounts, as we had a few months ago? We still weren't making "Medium Yield" numbers then. I've mentioned before that we only get 1-3 non-officer players each week (plus 2-3 officers) that even bother to make personal goal, even in pre-5.8 Conquest. Such figures could be extrapolated to showing 2-6 players hitting goal if we had 500 active accounts. Surely that would cross your threshold for "Medium", at least.

Head count is just not the way such a restriction ought be applied. There are some sizeable RP guilds that just do enough Conquest to get Flagship Encryptions. Patch 5.8 was great for that, obviously - Top 10 or otherwise, just get your 200k to get the parts for your ship. But they're not always out there grinding away for Conquest points, either, and also may or may not be able to put up 400k+. There are many reasons for guilds with a lot of players to just not put up the points needed for bigger than a Small Yield, even with hundreds of accounts logging in each week.

Nine pages plus seven characters - 169 characters by my count - have been logged in on my pubside guild in the past week, but again, only nine characters managed 15k Conquest Points. About half those characters didn't score a single point at all, most of the rest had a few hundred to a few thousand. No head count limitations, please!

But yes, I think we generally agree that 5.8a was a good improvement on 5.8, and that 5.9 is another small step in the right direction. I loved seeing GSI as a Conquest objective, and even smiled when I saw that a KotFE chapter was on the list this week, and I don't even play KotFE (I have one toon that's cleared all story content to date, none of my others have gotten past Ch.12 or so). More ways to earn points across more sectors of the game is indeed awesome. But even with these changes, a guild with 169 characters played over the course of a week barely made Small Yield - the passive points still aren't enough to count on the simple size of the guild to make bigger yields.

By the way, since I logged on anyway to get my guild's numbers for my last post. I just checked Conquest - less than 24 hours into the week:

• Large Yield has one guild that already hit goal with 1,277,925 points (probably still moving Invasion Forces, but that guild obviously ain't mine, so I don't know). Five other guilds on that board are in six figures.
  
• Medium Yield has two guilds that hit that goal so far (top is at 690,673), and nine guilds on that board are in six figures.
  
• Small Yield has three guilds already set to get some encryptions (top is at 448,465), and all ten guilds on that board are in six figures.

For the record, my guild's sitting at 23,742 points. If we'd been able to get Trapjaw + R4-GL, we probably would have 50-75k with our 10-person party we had last night : (

You do not speak for me, nor do you even correctly interpret my words. Just stop.

 

Played every single part of this game and have been paying to play it since December 20, 2011. Clearly, SWTOR is not for me...

 

.

Old conquest gave you something that is personally of value to you.

You stated that you stopped queuing because new conquest doesnt allow you to benefit from it.

1+1=2

I just took your words at face value. If you meant something else, feel free to clarify,

I got my first ever forum warning today about something I guess I said about this poster whom I dare not name so I need to be careful now what I say. But although I’m nowhere near the forum legend of Dasty, if you meet the conditions he set forth again about that poster who shall not be named, I too will spam your inbox with a sternly-worded PM.

All people have to do is stop with the personal attacks. It's not hard. I have a personal view of swtor and it may be different than yours. That's normal in every facet of life. Most people dont beat up other people IRL because they disagree about something.

I think you need more brain cells. You defend that broken system because your f...ing mass guild has a great advantage. but there are many small and medium guilds which are frustrated and their players lost fun in participating conquest.

None of my guilds are meeting the minimum for their tier, and I still think the system is in a better place. Eventually our guild will find its niche again.