I'm about to make a new character on a pvp world so I can play with my healer friend in warzones. Anyone got any suggestions on the best tank for guarding healers in pvp, and what makes them the best. I would really appreciate if you include a nice build for them. My friend is a scoundrel.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 13, 2013 by Peter_The_Pro

I'm about to make a new character on a pvp world so I can play with my healer friend in warzones. Anyone got any suggestions on the best tank for guarding healers in pvp, and what makes them the best.

 

A Guardian/Jugg. Guardian Leap/Intercede combined with Force Leap and the Guardian CDs give Guardians the best utility and ally assistance capability of all of the PvP tanks. Shadow tanks have better damage and node interrupting/guarding capability, but they can't do as well with specifically guarding a healer. VGs just don't have the same toolbox (only 1 real survivability CD, negligible utility; their only real advantage is Harpoon, which Shadow tanks match with Force Pull while they bring even more on top of it).

I've looked over the forums and couldn't find any good info on how to gear my jugg for pvp tank. I don't want to make a dps tank but an actual tank. I've read shield is near useless in pvp so how should i prioritize my stats for tanking purposes?

 

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread but the info could be useful to the op as well.

I've looked over the forums and couldn't find any good info on how to gear my jugg for pvp tank. I don't want to make a dps tank but an actual tank. I've read shield is near useless in pvp so how should i prioritize my stats for tanking purposes?

 

If you're going as a pure tank in PvP, your best bet is to prioritize Expertise (since it is a global reduction in damage taken) and Endurance (since it will actually keep you alive for longer against all types of attacks). You still want to use a shield since some attacks can still be shielded, but the stat allocation priority just changes thanks to the different ratio and need to prioritize short term survivability over long term survivability.

Min Maxing for PvP as a tanky Guardian/Juggernaut is pretty simple.

 

BIS Earpiece is Battlemaster, BIS implants are the EWH, though they are only marginally better than the BM implants.

 

Four piece PvP tanking set bonus is garbage. Your job isn't to do damage, it's to take it, and render the other DPS useless. Get the two piece Vindicator Set Bonus, this will heal you for 8% whenever you Guardian Leap, a far better set bonus. I also prefer to use the 2 piece PvE set bonus personally. Check my armory for how I have that set up.

 

On the WH tier, it's the simplest thing in the world. Once you have your set bonus, replace every mod and enhancement with the mod and enhancement from the boots. Just keep buying boots, over and over again. Lightsaber, shield gen, waist and wrists, etc, just replace everything with the stats from the boots. Why? Because as you mentioned, Defense is king. Shield will not do a thing for you, and absorption is even worse. Unfortunately you'll be picking up a bunch of shield rating as you get this gear, however there's not a lot you can do about it. The boot stats have the best distribution of high endurance and defense rating available. Continuing on, socket everything for endurance (18 end, 12 power augs). Replace the crystal(s) in your lightsaber and shield with endurance crystals. Craft at least three of the Guardian 27 armorings, use them in your belt/bracers and 1 item in your 5 set, since you only need two and two to maintain set bonuses. If you choose the PvE set bonus route, craft five guardian 27 armorings and place in the PvE shells you'll be using, again, check my armory. And of course, use the Imperiling Serenity relics.

 

TLR - Buy the boots over and over again, and replace all mods and enhancements in every piece of gear with the mods and enhancements from the boots, then socket for endurance, and craft the PvE armorings.

 

EWH gearing. Fortunately for gearing tanks, it's pretty easy for us. Instead of buying the boots this time, you'll be buying the gloves, again, over and over, replace all mods and enhancements with it. Replace appropriate armorings (vindicators) and hilts (MH/OH) and you'll be good.

 

Spec:

 

A fair bit of people seem to favor the middle tree spec. Personally I don't. I'm here to tank and not die, commiting so much to the vigilance/vengeance tree for the static 4% reduction in dmg taken sacrifices way too much utility from the tanking tree. Another standard I've seen is the 27/12/2 spec, which is solid, but puts two points in the ravage/master strike talent, again, I'm not here to DPS so I made my own build, which is 29/12/0. My philosophy is area denial, debuffing and not dying, and this spec is best suited to do all of that. Yes, you're never going to contribute much as a DPS to the team, but, you'll be contributing to the team's DPS with the debuffs you're spreading around.

 

Anyway, if you have any questions or whatever, feel free to check the armory link in my sig or post back here.

 

Regards,

Was stumbling around the forums, and wanted to provide some support, in a different sort of way, to what Cates said.

 

Likely the best, or best known, guardian tank on our server (Jedi Covenant), Cates not only runs with a good group, but plays reasonably well with objectives and is absolutely right in saying that (whatever he does) makes him incredibly durable. The amount of time it takes to wear away the hitpoints, eat through the cooldowns, and chew up the Guardian known as Cates leaves *minutes* of time for his supporting team members to come along to his aid. This observation comes from a few attempts at his dance party alpha tango mash up in civil war, in his few solo ventures.

 

That being said, when he is provided with someone to guard, neither he nor that individual ever seem to die. Apart from his ability, the combination of his guardian leap (heal), gear set up, ultra high endurance (which helps his self heal), taunts, and obviously his healer, this set up is the most durable tanking set up I've come across in my year of killing/separating healers and their tanks, across three servers.

 

At any rate, this isn't a post to bury my face in his butt, but more to support his words. Whatever he is doing, he's doing it right. I'd listen up.

At any rate, this isn't a post to bury my face in his butt, but more to support his words. Whatever he is doing, he's doing it right. I'd listen up.

 

Thanks man, it's a thankless job and we rarely get recognized. Always trying to get better.

I couldnt agree more Scrubin. I went from a mediocre Vig Guardian to one of the best tanks on the server imo from just asking Cates questions about gear and spec and watching a few of his streams. I would listen to what he has to say.

Cates and I disagree on builds, but I have to give him props for reminding me that columi/tionese set bonus is on the shell, not the armoring. 2pc pve tank > 2pc pvp tank. He is on top of things. :-) Edited January 26, 2013 by Khalhazar

I have a further question regarding what the OP was asking. I am rolling a tank to duo with a friend of mine who is playing a healer, which tank should I play in order to maximize utilizing the guard buff for him and still be able to kill enemies. In regards to not relying on others to deal damage. Thanks in advance.

Due to your friend being a Scoundrel, and thus having stealth + being able to spec for dps/burst - I'd say that a Shadow might be the overall best choice - while not as good at guarding/"saving" the healer friend, as a Guardian the Shadow is still nice - The fun factor of being 2 stealth classes(and the added utility) could be really great and very fun.

Think of when you both get a bit bored by doing the very same-same-same, you could both go dps/burst, being able to capture nods with 2-4 enmies quite fast. Or you could both go range+a bit of melee-"harassment specs".

 

The Guardian while great and fun in itself, it's as good as always a melee class, that does most of it's doing in/while melee(ing). Both Scoundrel and Shadow could kinda be semi-good mid-long range classes, a quite different playstyle(compared to healer+tank, or dps/burst+dps/burst, or anyone of the different but possible specs).

 

And it transfers over to PvE as well, and both being able to stealth past mobs etc.

Edited February 11, 2013 by -DG-

Agree about Guardian as the best spec to guard a healer, disagree about the build. The only thing you gain from going 27 (or 29) into the Defense tree instead of 18 is Hilt Strike, lowered cooldown on Push and extended duration on Enure.

 

For Enure, I'd take 4% flat DR and turning Focused Defense into a 15% damage reduction cooldown (that's additive, so if your DR is at 53% it shoots up to 68% with Focused Defense active, 88% with Focused Defense active and Unremitting going) over the extra 5 seconds on Enure and its 4% internal DR any day and twice on Sundays. Not to mention since you'll be gearing for Endurance, you'll be healing for more per tick on Focused Defense (about 550 per tick).

 

Hilt Strike is an extra 4 second stun, while Command lowers the cooldown of Force Push by 15 seconds. What does the hybrid offer that is superior to this? Simple, lowering the cooldown of Awe by 15 seconds. Awe is by far your best peeling tool in your arsenal, and lowering its cooldown by 15 seconds is definitely worth more than an extra single target stun or having Force Push up more often, provided you're playing with a smart team that won't break your Awe (but if you're playing a full-on PVP tank its already assumed you're with a smart team).

 

On top of all this, the hybrid at least gives you something to put some pressure on the opponent with in Overhead Slash, while going with 27/12/2 or 29/12/0 leaves you completely impotent.

Shanewatts question is a good one. I would, however, like to see it asked (and more importantly; answered) as such:

 

While Guardian might be the best at protecting a healer, which tank AC can form the best two-man team with a healer of each class?

 

I think this is an important distinction. I find that a strongly cohesive tank/healer combo can affect the outcome of games far more than a two-person team in any other MMO. My wife tends to play healers; I tend to play tanks. Our "mains" thus far have been sage/shadow and it's devastatingly effective since the two of such a pair makes up a full 25% of a WZ team compared to a smaller percentage in, say, a WoW BG. Furthermore; the tanking mechanics in this game serve to really allow a healer to be survivable when paired with a good tank in a way that dps peeling/cc and other tactics can only aspire to in other games.

 

What I don't know, however, is how the other tanks stack up. I feel like a tank-minded Vanguard or Guardian does not kill enough to rival what I'm capable of on my shadow but as I do not have one at 50 I cannot really say and would love to hear some other opinions. Their damage output over the course of a BG might actually be higher, but the on-demand burst a Kinetic Shadow is capable of is vital getting someone dead. I feel like my strategy is to nibble away, nibble away until I have something on the verge of defeat then burst them down before they/healers can react. It's quite effective.

 

How do you other tanks work with your healers? Which healers do you work best with?

Assassin Tank guarding an operative healer = unstoppable.

Can someone clarify what was said on page one, about shield being useless and absorption being worse?

 

Do either of these do anything at all in PvP?

 

thx

Can someone clarify what was said on page one, about shield being useless and absorption being worse?

 

Do either of these do anything at all in PvP?

 

Shield and Absorb do the same thing in PvP as they do in PvE: they reduce damage from incoming melee/ranged attacks. The problem is that PvP is a different environment entirely.

 

First off, player attacks when weighted for damage dealt through actual use are *massively* in favor of Force/Tech attacks. In PvE, Shield and Absorb are great because a vast majority of incoming damage is going to be melee/ranged; the number of F/T attacks thrown at you is low enough that Shield and Absorb still have a substantial impact. Keep in mind, this applies to Defense just as well. This next one doesn't.

 

Mechanically, what a lot of newish players don't realize, is the two-roll system used by the game, which shows why Defense, even though it's terrible, is still mechanically better than Shield and Absorb in PvP. Any attack made against you first makes a roll to see whether it hits: the chance of the ability to hit (base accuracy + accuracy from rating/talents/etc) - the relevant Defense chance of the target (melee/ranged attacks use "Defense chance" whereas Force/Tech attacks use "Resistance chance"). Defense rating does nothing for Resistance chance, which is why it was said before that even Defense is bad in PvP because of the massive preference for damage through F/T attacks players show. The second roll, assuming the first succeeds, determines what kind of hit the attack ends up being, whether that is a shielded attack, a critical hit, or a normal hit, though it should be mentioned that only M/R attacks can be shielded, which is was already explained before. Since it's possible for the combined critical hit chance and shield chances to exceed 100%, it's entirely possible that the chance for a normal hit is complete removed from the table. Furthermore, if the combined chances *do* exceed 100%, crit chance takes priority and pushes Shield rating off of the table until the total chance is only 100%. As such, if an attack is a guaranteed critical hit, there is no chance to shield that attack. Since players have a lot of increased crit chances and guaranteed critical hits, Shield rating often gets pushed off of the table, making however much Shield rating *did* get pushed off the table redundant.

 

TL:DR; the reasons are based upon the innate mechanics (the reason why Shield and Absorb are inferior to Defense in PvP) combined with player attributes (high crit chances reducing the functional capabilities of Shield chance in those cases that it *is* applied) and the overall design of player damage capabilities (none of the tank stats do anything useful against Force/Tech attacks, which are the dominant way players deal damage).

Well, I think another important reason why Defense should be preferred for PvP tanks (at least for now) that Kitru didn't mention is the ability to avoid negative effects tied to attacks. For example, defending a charge from a Knight/Warrior means you don't get rooted, defending a legshot from a Sniper/Gunslinger means no root, defending a Carnage Marauder's attacks means no root... huge helps for something like Huttball, where PvP tanks are most important.

 

There's other examples too besides roots, for example if a Pyro Powertech hits you with railshot, it'll reset his CGC which ticks immediately, defending means you not only avoid the railshot damage, but also the extra CGC damage.

 

All that said, 2.0 will be here somewhat soon, and with it and its changes shields will likely push ahead of defense for PvP tanks, but I wouldn't say defense will become worthless for the reasons I listed above, and the ability to avoid effects tied to certain attacks.

i will try those changes too