I love my Sith characters but the Empire has one major problem and that is they tend to fight among themselves instead of working together.

It is a lot easier to kill off characters like that then it is for characters that have people that will help them.

When the sith empire is based on killing one another off is it any wonder the writers kill these characters?

Lets not forget that empire is reinstated in ep.3 and republic fully disbanded in ep.4

Dont fake history. In ep.3 Palpatine declares the GALACTIC EMPIRE, he never reinstates the SITH EMPIRE. Just because it has "Empire" in ite name it has nothing to do with it. Or do you think Galactic Empire=Sith Empire=Gree Empire=Infinite Empire=Kwa Empire etc. ???

Well the empire and imoerials are kinda the dark side and will be made out to be the villains so to please the majority it makes sense that bioware would kill more of them off

All of my chars are LS, imps too and even though I agree the Empire is the villain, it would make much more sense if more reps would die (but note that all of the Jedi Council except Satele and Bar'senthor die/get lost along with the Supreme Chancellor and the War Trust)

Kilran? Seriously? That's who you're putting the horses in your argument behind? The guy that not only everyone wants to kill, but will roll pub side characters specifically to do so?

It is pure propaganda. Just because the empire makes use of its right of free speech and free wars of aggression to promote inequality, slavery and oppression, they are somehow portrayed as the bad guys and can be killed in greater numbers. It is this darned democratic agenda again.

This seriously made the thread for me.

Satele is too Iconic to die, but I'd settle for Saresh. Also, I count only Marr, since the others were not cool. .

Amen, Saresh is a way better counterpoint to Malgus given how she's every bit as stupid in so many ways. Also, dude's are just mad that Satele is too smart to pick a fight with a player character.

Also, on a more personal note, I would really hate to see one of the very few iconic women in this game be sacrificed. Yeah you can argue way more dudes die, but there are way way way more dudes in the story to begin with, something we are thankfully starting to see a bit of a reversal of in KotFE with Lana, Senya, and Vaylin.

They would make a lot of people happy if they'd let us kill Saresh. She's every bit as evil as any of the Imperials that get killed, and far more annoying than most.

I tend to pity her a bit. If I had to spy on my own intelligence service to find out what they are up to, I could become a bit grumpy too.

The Empire generates more antagonists, inherently, due to its very nature. There are exceptions, but...

I don't think I could explain it any more simply.

They would make a lot of people happy if they'd let us kill Saresh. She's every bit as evil as any of the Imperials that get killed, and far more annoying than most.

What has Saresh has done that makes her as evil as mass-murdering slavers?

What has Saresh has done that makes her as evil as mass-murdering slavers?

Not quite as evil, but she does force people to risk their life in reconstruction of Taris and won't let them leave again.

Gives the Makeb citizens cr*p because their planet blew up and the Republic now has to provide aid for them (geeze, sorry that the loss of their home inconveniences you Saresh.)

Also she is very warmongering, makes no attempts at peace at all and even actively gives Satele crap for joining forces with the Empire during the Revanite crisis. And she continues to fight a pointless battle with the SIth Empire while Zakuul rules both of them.

That and she sent a huge army to Ziost, when an eldritch abomination that can posess people was rampaging around there, causing a lot of those soldiers to die.

Not quite as evil, but she does force people to risk their life in reconstruction of Taris and won't let them leave again.

Gives the Makeb citizens cr*p because their planet blew up and the Republic now has to provide aid for them (geeze, sorry that the loss of their home inconveniences you Saresh.)

Yeah, I get that she's done bad and stupid things - just that comparing her to Lachris or Malgus seems weird. Though, a couple of things I'm not so sure on...

Also she is very warmongering, makes no attempts at peace at all and even actively gives Satele crap for joining forces with the Empire during the Revanite crisis. And she continues to fight a pointless battle with the SIth Empire while Zakuul rules both of them.

Has it ever been suggested that the Empire is willing to seriously talk peace? Should Saresh be willing to concede the former Republic worlds that the Empire still has enslaved in order to end the fighting?

That and she sent a huge army to Ziost, when an eldritch abomination that can posess people was rampaging around there, causing a lot of those soldiers to die.

Maybe none of that need have happened if her own spies hadn't been lying to her. Besides, at the time nobody really knew what Vitiate's capabilities were.

Not quite as evil, but she does force people to risk their life in reconstruction of Taris and won't let them leave again.

Gives the Makeb citizens cr*p because their planet blew up and the Republic now has to provide aid for them (geeze, sorry that the loss of their home inconveniences you Saresh.)

Also she is very warmongering, makes no attempts at peace at all and even actively gives Satele crap for joining forces with the Empire during the Revanite crisis. And she continues to fight a pointless battle with the SIth Empire while Zakuul rules both of them.

That and she sent a huge army to Ziost, when an eldritch abomination that can posess people was rampaging around there, causing a lot of those soldiers to die.

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on Taris because she was obviously in a garbage position being in charge of trying to clean up the biggest toxic s***hole in the galaxy and taking hard, unpopular stances to get the job done is understandable.

Trooper storyline: Wait, wat? You know this guy is going to kill way more people than you are rescuing with him, right? Is being the hero of the day that important to you?

Makeb: Wat? I just got the Hutt Cartel to bend over, and pledge their wealth and resources to us, not only do you have the resources now but you owe these people and me.

Ziost: Wat? No... Saresh, that's a bad idea. That is the world boss of bad ideas. No, no Saresh, stahp!

It really hurts my soul a little bit to see the one woman in a position of supreme authority in the republic end up being such an awful person and an awful leader (thanks God for Satele). Add to that the only one we ever saw on the Dark Council was f***ing Zhorrid and it just becomes demoralizing.

Sorry for derailing, but all of a sudden I am really kinda dreading how the new queen is going to be depicted in future KotFE chapters. I really hope she ends up subverting expectations and being a more reasonable figure like Marr.

Did you know that general that helps us and is the commander of the military side of the alliance well he had plan to fight back against Zaakul but and this is interesting the cancellor said that they better focus on the imperials.

***** you all lost the entire Republic fleet and you are now a tributary. How dumb can you be.

Not quite as evil, but she does force people to risk their life in reconstruction of Taris and won't let them leave again.

Gives the Makeb citizens cr*p because their planet blew up and the Republic now has to provide aid for them (geeze, sorry that the loss of their home inconveniences you Saresh.)

Also she is very warmongering, makes no attempts at peace at all and even actively gives Satele crap for joining forces with the Empire during the Revanite crisis. And she continues to fight a pointless battle with the SIth Empire while Zakuul rules both of them.

That and she sent a huge army to Ziost, when an eldritch abomination that can posess people was rampaging around there, causing a lot of those soldiers to die.

Makeb wasn't a part of the republic when the offer to join them if they got assistance. They (Makeb) knew there was a problem, they just didn't know how big of a problem, when they did join, but chose not to divulge that info.

There is no reason Saresh has to be happy taking in all those refugees, who just the week before where pretty anti-republic.

Ziost was more of a force issue, which we all know, non force users always think "Pffft...big deal, I can handle a force user with fire power" She's a smuggler who thinks the KotFE makes sense with her as the lead

 

It really hurts my soul a little bit to see the one woman in a position of supreme authority in the republic end up being such an awful person and an awful leader (thanks God for Satele). Add to that the only one we ever saw on the Dark Council was f***ing Zhorrid and it just becomes demoralizing..

Really? 'hurts your soul', I know that you probably don't mean it that way, but I just had to laugh at that

Also, we've already met Acina. She's a reasonable Sith. Though she does seem to be a bit ambitious, plus the fact that she was personally put in charge of the Emperor's stuff puts me on edge. If Valkorian is up to something, she might be apart of it...

Really? 'hurts your soul', I know that you probably don't mean it that way, but I just had to laugh at that

I know that you probably didn't mean that comment to come off as dismissive and condescending, but I am being completely serious when I say that the only thing that depresses me more about this game's representation is how far better it and Bioware in general are about it than 90% of the other games out there.

Yeah, there are certainly positive examples in gaming out there, some really fantastic one, but you've got 5-10 times as many. Just something to think about.

Glad to hear about Acina, it's been so long since I played that garbage questline I forgot we'd seen her before and refreshing my memory on youtube gives me a little bit of hope.

Not quite as evil, but she does force people to risk their life in reconstruction of Taris and won't let them leave again.

Gives the Makeb citizens cr*p because their planet blew up and the Republic now has to provide aid for them (geeze, sorry that the loss of their home inconveniences you Saresh.)

Also she is very warmongering, makes no attempts at peace at all and even actively gives Satele crap for joining forces with the Empire during the Revanite crisis. And she continues to fight a pointless battle with the SIth Empire while Zakuul rules both of them.

That and she sent a huge army to Ziost, when an eldritch abomination that can posess people was rampaging around there, causing a lot of those soldiers to die.

Don't forget she has ties to an the GenoHaradan, an assassins guild/secret police force and anyone who investigates her "disappears". From the State of the Galaxy "Asset R-31 was killed while attempting to negotiate the purchase of potentially-incriminating holorecords from Chancellor Saresh’s time on the planet Taris. The seller was also killed. As with past efforts along these lines, GenoHaradan assassins are the most likely culprits."

So all told she caused the death of numerous people on Taris to forward her political agenda. She used assassins to silence opposition. She was single-handedly responsible for millions of people dying needlessly on Ziost. So yah, I think she is just as evil as Kilran.

Makeb: Wat? I just got the Hutt Cartel to bend over, and pledge their wealth and resources to us, not only do you have the resources now but you owe these people and me.

Unless you picked the Dark Side option at the end of Makeb, I think the Hutts basically end up using their depleted resources to help the Makeb refugees, and not much else. That more or less solves the refugee problem but means that the Republic is getting nothing in exchange for the lives lost and military resources expended on the rescue effort. As SithKoriandr said there's no reason Saresh has to be happy about having to lose resources at a time when there are lots of people in the Galaxy who need the Republic's help - including its former citizens who are living as slaves in the Empire.

Saresh is also largely upset because she's convinced Avesta must have known his planet was collapsing. It seems to her like he made grand promises of what Makeb could give the Republic without ever intending to deliver.

Ziost: Wat? No... Saresh, that's a bad idea. That is the world boss of bad ideas. No, no Saresh, stahp!

How was she supposed to know? Her own spies withheld crucial information, and even they didn't know what was going to happen on Ziost.

Don't forget she has ties to an the GenoHaradan, an assassins guild/secret police force and anyone who investigates her "disappears". From the State of the Galaxy "Asset R-31 was killed while attempting to negotiate the purchase of potentially-incriminating holorecords from Chancellor Saresh’s time on the planet Taris. The seller was also killed. As with past efforts along these lines, GenoHaradan assassins are the most likely culprits."

Fair enough; that sounds pretty damning. If it's what it looks like then she should be in prison. However, murder of a few individuals - definitely a heinous crime - is still not equivalent to what Kilran did. "Butcher of Coruscant"? "Pacifier of the Togruta Uprising"? These are the things he chooses to be remembered for. He's a mass murderer and he's proud of it. In some permutations of the Black Talon flashpoint, Kilran murders every member of the crew of an Imperial ship because their captain balked at a suicide mission. And he sent them on that mission so he could capture and torture "The General" even though he apparently didn't know who that was. And he does all this to support a state built on slavery, oppression and a heck of a lot more torture and murder.

Not all crimes are equal. History has its murderers and it has its mass murderers. The fact that Kilran doesn't hide what he is or that the government for which he works is fully ok with mass murder really, really doesn't excuse anything.

So all told she caused the death of numerous people on Taris to forward her political agenda.

I don't follow. She played fast and loose with the rules to try and save the Taris reconstruction project, yes. There were other people involved with that project who were determined to see it through, who weren't going to give up. You could argue that Saresh's actions led to some deaths, but she prevented others as well.

Taris reconstruction didn't fail because of Saresh or because it was a doomed project from the start. It failed because the Empire destroyed it out of spite. If "caused the death of numerous people on Taris" is a crime to put Saresh among the worst of the worse, then every Empire player, even the Light Side ones, is among the worst of the worst.

She was single-handedly responsible for millions of people dying needlessly on Ziost.

"Single-handedly"? Really? Vitiate himself isn't even a little bit responsible?

On the plus side: Saresh is not prone to choking subordinates for failing her and never rants publicly about 'absolute power'.

Nor is she even tacitly pro-slavery, which any member of the Dark Council must be.

You do realise that, before losing, the Empire gets to run the galaxy and oppress it... and that the Republic in the prequels uses the logo of the Sith Empire, not the Republic, right?

 

I think that, if the writers were any good, the Republic should face defeat. And the Empire, collapse unto itself once without an enemy to keep it together.

to be honest the story makes it seem that both are going to merge together rather than one killing the other.

So all told she caused the death of numerous people on Taris to forward her political agenda. She used assassins to silence opposition. She was single-handedly responsible for millions of people dying needlessly on Ziost. So yah, I think she is just as evil as Kilran.

I don't know about that.

She had what, a few dozen of her people on the planet when it happened? I don't recall any of the Republic people actually being shown making it to the ground. The one who died where the ones we did see there, where a group of Jedi, Theron helped get there.

Saresh herself, shows up and then see's an enemies planet destroyed by the enemy. Easily seen as a win/win.

How was she supposed to know? Her own spies withheld crucial information, and even they didn't know what was going to happen on Ziost.

As soon as she heard about the Emperor, she could have consulted with Satele, or better yet, put Satele in charge, but considering how she reacted to the Jedi grandmaster allying with Marr to try and stop a threat to the whole galaxy, I'm guessing she petulantly decided to leave the Jedi out of this, which is probably a bad idea when dealing with the embodiment of Sith power.

And even if Satele wasn't on the outs with her, I kinda doubt Saresh would have heeded her advice. Everything I've seen about her in-game suggests she's the type to tolerate advice rather than follow it.

"Single-handedly"? Really? Vitiate himself isn't even a little bit responsible?

The invasion force she landed might very well have given Vitiate the power he needed to swallow the rest of the planet. What she did was literally the opposite of helping anything but him, and there's only so much the "But I didn't know!" defense will cover.