Couple of fellow guildmates and I were discussing D3 and hardcore mode and the finality of it. How people react and how it brings a different aspect to the game. I got to thinking how Bioware could set it's operations apart from everyone else and make Nightmare worth something.

Here's the idea:

Make Nightmare mode deaths final.

So how do you go about it and not make it impossible? Bioware makes HM difficulty a mix between HM now and what Nightmare is currently. This way it prepares guilds to do NiM or keeps the operations a challenge for players not willing to move into NiM. Turn NiM into a lose everything except bank, legacy, etc...Make NiM a slight ( and I mean slight) bit more difficult. Perhaps the boss hit a little harder, enrage is a tad sooner, but the mechanics are the same. This will allow guilds to tune and tweak their strat in HM.

Doing this will require a few qualifications to enter.

Everyone upon zone in would have to accept or check mark something acknowledging they are entering a NiM instance. This get s rid of the QQ and excuses. Next, NiM will only be 8 man. This way guilds can have a small core group that works together well. Lockout would not be shared with each other and their would be separate lockouts for Story, Hm, and NiM.

Make rewards worth the effort.

Make the drops Legendary. Gear with built-in augments, killer looks like glowing auras and battle worn gear, (the best looking gear in-game, sabers with a color crystal that you can only get in NiM, etc...Really put a talented design team dedicated to awesome gear. Give the gear sweet set bonuses and make the stats at least a level or two higher. .Make it worth the cost basically and truly set NiM apart.

What do you think?

Are you really suggesting a mode where one dodgy internet connection or screwup by an individual causes 8 people to permanently lose their characters, gear, etc.? Seriously?

I could see the merits of a mode where if you died you stayed dead until the instance was reset but permanent deaths? Well... I know I don't trust anyone that much.

No offense to you. I am sure you are a smart person, but this is the stupidest idea ever. Simple fact of the matter is this idea has been tried before in MMOs. The only thing it does is create a large gap of haves, and have nots. The have nots and players who lose everything unsub.

Perma-loss in an MMO has been proven to be a bad idea whether implemented perfectly, or poorly.

What if a player disconnects because of a freak lightning storm or a branch falling on a power line? That disconnect will wipe the group and potentially now 4-8 people lose EVERYTHING.

TLDR version: Tried before in MMOs, more of a negative than a positive.

No offense to you. I am sure you are a smart person, but this is the stupidest idea ever. Simple fact of the matter is this idea has been tried before in MMOs. The only thing it does is create a large gap of haves, and have nots. The have nots and players who lose everything unsub.

 

 

Perma-loss in an MMO has been proven to be a bad idea whether implemented perfectly, or poorly.

 

What if a player disconnects because of a freak lightning storm or a branch falling on a power line? That disconnect will wipe the group and potentially now 4-8 people lose EVERYTHING.

 

 

TLDR version: Tried before in MMOs, more of a negative than a positive.

It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.

It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

 

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

 

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.

Death penalties like what you are suggesting are an archaic form of MMO difficulty challenge that like I said have been phased out for obvious reasons.

Death penalties like gear decay, travel costs, etc I am fine with but HARD death penalties like you are suggesting is too much. This is an article that was done last year by massively on death penalties and their follies. I suggest you read if you haven't already.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/03/24/the-perfect-ten-death-penalties/

It's very simple and it may not be for you....if you don't want to take the risk, don't enter the instance, period. To some losing something in a video game is just that, something in a video game. Those who do take the risk and succeed get things other do not. It's a risk vs. reward and gives guilds the possibility of a true worlds first competition.

 

This will also create a reason for some players to keep playing...the rush and thrill of it all. Then if you don't make it, you and you're guildmates power level and start again.

 

Again this won't be for everyone and the difficulty of current HM will need to be set a little higher with the rewards of HM being that of current NiM.

And when you lose your connection and die (or your healer losses connection and causes a party wipe) you will probably be at the front of the line complaining and trying to get customer service to restore your character.

The biggest flaw with this is your comparing it to Diablo hard core. Hard core characters are separated from regular characters and they cannot play together. In order to do this, Bioware would have to create hard core servers.

Character death no, but would definitely be all for a complete gear/inventory wipe upon death (but with incredible rewards if you survive)

Character death would be pointless for the simple reason that no one wants to grind 50 levels of boredom again and again. Whereas gear loss just means regrinding fun operations which you would probably be doing anyway.

And when you lose your connection and die (or your healer losses connection and causes a party wipe) you will probably be at the front of the line complaining and trying to get customer service to restore your character.

 

The biggest flaw with this is your comparing it to Diablo hard core. Hard core characters are separated from regular characters and they cannot play together. In order to do this, Bioware would have to create hard core servers.

Not really...once you acknowledge you are entering NiM, you accept the outcome. Granted this takes a different mindset and approach to the game, you have to be able to accept loss. Again, you do not have to do a NiM instance. You experience all content in Story and HM, the only difference is the loot you gain is worth the risk.

Other MMOs have done things like perma death open PVP and such, creating a world that you don't have a choice. This you have the choice and do not have to experience it. Most people playing this game level multiple characters anyways, and me personally would have two of the same. I would have one for experiencing all content and achievements, and one for losing in NiM.

Character death no, but would definitely be all for a complete gear/inventory wipe upon death (but with incredible rewards if you survive).

Maybe that's the balance......

Good luck finding 7 - 15 other like minded individuals that will accept the idea that they will put their time and energy for the past month into your hands and hope you don't screw them over....

The less control a player has over a fight, the more reason to never want to get involved with a mechanic such as this. That's why hardcore modes only work in games such as D3 where it it possible to solo it all, and even then most players just get frustrated and quit afterwards.

Not really...once you acknowledge you are entering NiM, you accept the outcome. Granted this takes a different mindset and approach to the game, you have to be able to accept loss. Again, you do not have to do a NiM instance. You experience all content in Story and HM, the only difference is the loot you gain is worth the risk.

 

Other MMOs have done things like perma death open PVP and such, creating a world that you don't have a choice. This you have the choice and do not have to experience it. Most people playing this game level multiple characters anyways, and me personally would have two of the same. I would have one for experiencing all content and achievements, and one for losing in NiM.

Ok sweetie PLEASE understand what I am about to tell you. People dealt with things like perma-death, xp loss, skill loss, item loss back then because they had to. These were NEVER features anyone wanted but dealt with it because that's what the developers wrongly thought would make the game more challenging. These were NEVER a requested feature for any MMO that did not launch with it and even if it is in certain MMOs currently able to be subbed to does not in any stretch mean it is good for this one.

Ok sweetie PLEASE understand what I am about to tell you. People dealt with things like perma-death, xp loss, skill loss, item loss back then because they had to. These were NEVER features anyone wanted but dealt with it because that's what the developers wrongly thought would make the game more challenging. These were NEVER a requested feature for any MMO that did not launch with it and even if it is in certain MMOs currently able to be subbed to does not in any stretch mean it is good for this one.

I understand what you are saying...it was not a choice, I get that. This is a total choice, another aspect to the game that you do not have to do. You would only "HAVE" to do it if you felt like you just couldn't live without that wonderful loot, title, etc.... CHOICE it's a wonderful thing we have in our lives and something too many take for granted.

Terrible, awful, horrible idea. Also, why would BioWare devote the resources and manpower to developing something like this for the.... probably less than 100 people in their entire subscriber base who'd be willing to risk something like this.

Also, it works in D3 because you can level a character to 60 in a day or two. MMOs take a good bit longer than that, even for the hardcore.

Terrible, awful, horrible idea. Also, why would BioWare devote the resources and manpower to developing something like this for the.... probably less than 100 people in their entire subscriber base who'd be willing to risk something like this.

 

Also, it works in D3 because you can level a character to 60 in a day or two. MMOs take a good bit longer than that, even for the hardcore.

Because the only additional development is the gear. and a title..the content is already developed. The only reason it would be a terrible idea is you may not have the ability or nerve to want to do it. Is there other things BioWare needs to focus on, YOU BET. Implementing something like this wouldn't be hard.

Like I said maybe the balance is a gear wipe instead of perma death....

But I would suggest some sort of character retrieval through legacy.

Georgel Lucas meant to kill:

• Han Solo with the carbonite
  
• Boba Fett with the Sarlacc
• and Darth Maul on Naboo. (however canon you believe the clone war cartoon to be is up to you)
  

Having to pay a large amount of credits and even legacy xp to revive a fallen comrade, (who is now lets say stuck in the Nightmare) could be an impressive punishment.

You could even play them as a Nightmare character, temporarily making them look like a sort of nightmarish force ghost. Like the dark side or evil version of the force ghosts seen in the movies.

Playing as a nightmare character could cause a lockout from Ops or even just a big debuff that makes you ineffective in Ops

I imagine it like Hard Mode repair costs

I'm totally up for it. The outcry over lost characters on forums would be legendary. I would buy a pop-corn machine.

Oh, man....Imagine one guildie truly mad at someone in a 16 op. W00t ! Hundreds and hundreds of hours vaporized in seconds. Epic. Friendships having to overcome the ultimate test. Guilds losing characters and players.

Best idea ever

I remember guilds doing this in DDO. You died, you deleted your character.

But to ask to have a dev team devoted to content that you can't even get 1 person to agree with you on the forums with, lol. Well there was one guy, but doesn't sound like he wants to do it. He just wants to watch people rage over it.

Honestly and Sincerely...

Thank you.

This thread made me hysterically laugh out loud, and I needed that.

-Felkroth

BETTER IDEA

Make it so that you only get a certain amount of wipes before lockout. You wiped 10 times on Nightmare Bonethrasher? Locked out of Nightmare Bonethraser for a week

The only issue with this is that HM and Nightmare share a lockout timer. So I guess you'd be locked out of HM Bonethrasher and Nightmare Bonethraser. That's pretty intense right?

Besides if you're masochistic enough to want to try for an 11th time after TEN wipes they'd be doing you a favour:p

I remember guilds doing this in DDO. You died, you deleted your character.

 

But to ask to have a dev team devoted to content that you can't even get 1 person to agree with you on the forums with, lol. Well there was one guy, but doesn't sound like he wants to do it. He just wants to watch people rage over it.

I was being sarcastic. Did I really need to clarify it ? sheesh...

But if you want things blunt and simple, I think it's an awful idea. Losing your character or losing everything your character has, is ludicrous punishment over a death. Such a thing will be more a source for frustration and grief than a source for fun. It's a game we play to have fun.

Too many things can go wrong. The most uberleet player can make a mistake. One mistake can lead to a wipe. Even if you think you can't possibly make a mistake, you can't assume the same thing about the others. You can't assume you won't have a server connection problem. You can't assume everybody's internet connection won't have any kind of problem. And don't forget bugs and glitches. Way too many things you really have no control over.

But let's say you get 8, 16 people with the "i don't make mistakes-nothing will go wrong" attitude. And you wipe. Will everybody start over from scratch ? And even if they all do, the resentment and blaming game after it, will really hurt the guild.

I doubt BW will introduce a way to produce this much harm among the players.

And now I wonder how many nightmare operations are being run, let's say in a week, and how many of them are wipeless.

wont work

not enough 12 year olds play this game let alone raid. i suppose you want the zone to be full of lightsaber wielding space pandas. now that would truely be a nightmare.

wont work

 

not enough 12 year olds play this game let alone raid. i suppose you want the zone to be full of lightsaber wielding space pandas. now that would truely be a nightmare.

Why are you describing World of Warcraft? This is a SWTOR forum;)