For the specific Guild issues you’ve raised, we would need to ensure the entire Guild, their Flagship/decorations, Bank/Tabs/items, and Stronghold/decorations remain 100% intact. The goal would be for the Guild members to notice absolutely nothing different and this means any returning players would still be in your guild unless you specifically removed them. Bottom line for your Guild would be making sure we protect all your hard work.

 

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing. We know there’s a variety of issues to resolve including, but not limited to, name collisions, establishing a priority system, purging of old names beforehand, and players attempting to reserve names. We all have character names we want to preserve, so this is a key factor in the overall decision.

 

-Keith--

How does this dovetail with your statement that you do not want to forcibly move players that are happy where they currently are and have no desire to move?

Are you talking about merging servers and forcibly moving people who have no desire to move or are you talking about enabling voluntary individual or guild transfers, possibly to one or more new larger capacity servers, without losing any guild or personal assets in the process?

I read that as "BW is looking to see if merges are technically and economically feasible; and what the pain points will be." Once that's done, the "non-technical" discussion can be framed up and looked at.

 

I just finished doing a project very similar to "server merges" at work, only I was able to tell my "customers" they had no choice, move or die. (Because the servers I moved people off of were literally dying, as in hardware failures and lack of support). My part was the easy part. Having done that, it turns out I need to replace the servers again this year. I am moving, if not heaven and earth, a chunk of the sea and sky to ensure that everyone who just "moved" will never notice the change. (For a variety of reasons we couldn't take this approach in the last migration; several of the changes made during that were done to enable a transparent cutover if we ever had to do it in the future. So it goes). It's a bit of a "toy" system, but it served people I never knew used the silly thing until they wanted to know why it stopped working (despite my best efforts over the year previous to tell everyone what was coming).

 

System administration at the enterprise level (even with toys like I was working with) isn't like dusting crops, kid.

agreed. been there, done that, and they still ignored the warning emails

We would still like to know where you guys are at what parts of those key points you have success with as of now and what ones are the most annoying because I know even though you post great updates actions actually speak louder than words my friend and you could be posting this same thing for the next 12 months and as a veteran player I would like more of a window of time why not make free one way transfers for now to allow people to get to another server yes 90cc is cheap but some players are stuck on wastelands because of Biowares neglect towards certain players that pay for a sub and continue to do so.

Keith,

This is a very good point and idea about free transfers off the low pop servers. It would be a good start to the process while you are sorting out the logistics of mergers.

agreed. been there, done that, and they still ignored the warning emails

Same. You can tell them every month for a year and even weekly leading up to it and they will still be shocked when it happens 🙄

For the specific Guild issues you’ve raised, we would need to ensure the entire Guild, their Flagship/decorations, Bank/Tabs/items, and Stronghold/decorations remain 100% intact. The goal would be for the Guild members to notice absolutely nothing different and this means any returning players would still be in your guild unless you specifically removed them. Bottom line for your Guild would be making sure we protect all your hard work.

 

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing. We know there’s a variety of issues to resolve including, but not limited to, name collisions, establishing a priority system, purging of old names beforehand, and players attempting to reserve names. We all have character names we want to preserve, so this is a key factor in the overall decision.

 

-Keith--

I see one major problem with this Keith. You want to move guilds with all the members. Including in active. What happens when they become active again and realize you moved them to a differnt server? I've often played game with my brother and been in differnt guilds. If his whole guild moves and he comes back to play with his brother are you going to make him pay the 90cc to move back to his old server?

Then by your own logic you have no right to ask for servers to be merged so you can play on a highly populated server..we do have the right to play on a server that meets our needs just like you do. I don't want to play on a highly populated server for MANY reasons and to force me to move to one WILL make me leave the game and I won't be the only one.

 

Server population is NOT what made people leave...the population is what it is because people left because of class balance...Iokath...Command Ranks etc There is a fix may not be easy but fixing all the technical problems isn't easy either. Cross over ques is the answer but they refuse to do this. Players losing all the things they have worked so hard for over the years and losing those things because people want faster ques will cause even more people to leave so merging servers will not solve the problem but go ahead and push for it and see what happens. I read that those of us who didn't want to merge would not be forced guess that was a lie to.

And by your logic, I should still be playing on Shii Cho - which was shuttered 6 months post launch. As I said before, its a financial issue not an emotional one.

I see one major problem with this Keith. You want to move guilds with all the members. Including in active. What happens when they become active again and realize you moved them to a differnt server? I've often played game with my brother and been in differnt guilds. If his whole guild moves and he comes back to play with his brother are you going to make him pay the 90cc to move back to his old server?

No because the server won't be there because it would have been merged and they will still be on the same server

 

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing.

 

-Keith--

Keith:

Another key point for many people during a forced server merge is that roleplayers can be ensured that they still have a roleplay environment that has enforceable roleplay rules. Essentially, I want you to keep in mind that on Progenitor, a lot of people RP. Even in the outside world.

As you make a discussion about forced server merges happening, please consider adding "RP instances with current RP server rules" to the discussion. More than anything else, the absence of any specific RP instance would annoy me the most, right after character names. PvE instances can be full and severly disturb events. An RP instance you can manually switch to besides the 1 or 2 PvE instances would work wonders to relief that stress.

It would also add the benefit of having an environment where roleplayers can be sure to find RP, and even have a decent enforcement of the RP rules applying to everyone, but without having to force people on a formerly PvE server to have to jump around in the cantinas where the RP is happening. In that instance, players could refer to the RP rules as a code of conduct, but players in the PvE instances would not have to follow them if they don't want to.

Also, please consider that not only guild strongholds should be transferred, but personal ones too.

With best regards

How does this dovetail with your statement that you do not want to forcibly move players that are happy where they currently are and have no desire to move?

 

Are you talking about merging servers and forcibly moving people who have no desire to move or are you talking about enabling voluntary individual or guild transfers, possibly to one or more new larger capacity servers, without losing any guild or personal assets in the process?

While I understand forcibly moving someone is never fun, but even if all the issues Keith mentioned would be solved with a 100% guarantee why would you still not want to move? A server is just a server, whether it's called The Red Eclipse or The Progenitor. If the people you know and love are at the same server after the merge then you have lost nothing in sentimental value.

Had you raised the issue "I don't want to move because of the technical issues such as names, guilds etc" I would have understood your comment. But not wanting to move "because players are happy where they are"? Who is to say you wouldn't be happier on a merged server? What is it that makes you so happy to want to stay on that specific server even if all the technical issues would be solved with a 100% guarantee that you'll be merged with another server without any issues or losses?

That is what I am unable to understand because the argument of technical issues makes sense and I wouldn't want to merge for exactly those reasons. But because of sentimental value? Knowing how much that would thwart the rest of the community? I'd just treasure my memories and look forward to making new ones on the merged servers.

Keith:

 

Another key point for many people during a forced server merge is that roleplayers can be ensured that they still have a roleplay environment that has enforceable roleplay rules. Essentially, I want you to keep in mind that on Progenitor, a lot of people RP. Even in the outside world.

 

As you make a discussion about forced server merges happening, please consider adding "RP instances with current RP server rules" to the discussion. More than anything else, the absence of any specific RP instance would annoy me the most, right after character names. PvE instances can be full and severly disturb events. An RP instance you can manually switch to besides the 1 or 2 PvE instances would work wonders to relief that stress.

 

It would also add the benefit of having an environment where roleplayers can be sure to find RP, and even have a decent enforcement of the RP rules applying to everyone, but without having to force people on a formerly PvE server to have to jump around in the cantinas where the RP is happening. In that instance, players could refer to the RP rules as a code of conduct, but players in the PvE instances would not have to follow them if they don't want to.

 

Also, please consider that not only guild strongholds should be transferred, but personal ones too.

 

With best regards

This I could understand as a reason not to want to move. As a former rp'er myself I completely understand the concerns of this person as even on the Progenitor, an RP server, there would be trolls and people disturbing RP just for the sake of it. I could imagine the amount of people dedicated to spoiling RP for others would be much bigger on a merged server between Red Eclipse and the Progenitor. Adding an RP instance with the rules applying of an RP server should also be a priority for the Dev team regarding server merges.

As you make a discussion about forced server merges happening, please consider adding "RP instances with current RP server rules" to the discussion. More than anything else, the absence of any specific RP instance would annoy me the most, right after character names. PvE instances can be full and severly disturb events. An RP instance you can manually switch to besides the 1 or 2 PvE instances would work wonders to relief that stress.

In my opinion players should have to pay the fee for a character transfer to move to an RP instance. Grouping can happen cross instance as can PvP, so the pro merger crowd get their way, but there should be a monetary treshold for moving to an RP instance to prevent trolling and griefing.

Character creation on such a new server should also include choosing an instance type, IMO.

Losing character names sucks, but shouldn't it be possible to query on the combination of character name AND legacy name, which should be unique in most cases?

How does this dovetail with your statement that you do not want to forcibly move players that are happy where they currently are and have no desire to move?

 

Are you talking about merging servers and forcibly moving people who have no desire to move or are you talking about enabling voluntary individual or guild transfers, possibly to one or more new larger capacity servers, without losing any guild or personal assets in the process?

If they solve the larger problem, they could probably "merge with a voluntary off ramp" that would put allow someone to transfer to another low pop server. Any of the 3 least populated servers could have their amount of concurrent players tripled and still be extremely sparse. Or, they could just be solving those issues to enable painless voluntary transfers to the megaserver (as an individual or a guild). Or, that could be an excuse to take no population action beyond what is going on now.

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing. We know there’s a variety of issues to resolve including, but not limited to, name collisions, establishing a priority system, purging of old names beforehand, and players attempting to reserve names. We all have character names we want to preserve, so this is a key factor in the overall decision.

A useful fix to go along with that is if you fixed the bug where you can't /w guild members with foreign characters in their name as there will surely be lots more people having to change their names to include them. Additionally, it will be useful for guild officers to be able to update the member notes to reflect the name changes without having the guild panel reloading each time an update is done or somebody changes instances.

For the specific Guild issues you’ve raised, we would need to ensure the entire Guild, their Flagship/decorations, Bank/Tabs/items, and Stronghold/decorations remain 100% intact. The goal would be for the Guild members to notice absolutely nothing different and this means any returning players would still be in your guild unless you specifically removed them. Bottom line for your Guild would be making sure we protect all your hard work.

 

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing. We know there’s a variety of issues to resolve including, but not limited to, name collisions, establishing a priority system, purging of old names beforehand, and players attempting to reserve names. We all have character names we want to preserve, so this is a key factor in the overall decision.

-Keith--

Best forum post to read in the last two months. Bringing the most people together who have been sticking it out on their low pop server is critical to the games overall health. I'm sure the names will have a workaround..

[

QUOTE=Ylliarus;9377405]While I understand forcibly moving someone is never fun, but even if all the issues Keith mentioned would be solved with a 100% guarantee why would you still not want to move? A server is just a server, whether it's called The Red Eclipse or The Progenitor. If the people you know and love are at the same server after the merge then you have lost nothing in sentimental value.

Had you raised the issue "I don't want to move because of the technical issues such as names, guilds etc" I would have understood your comment. But not wanting to move "because players are happy where they are"? Who is to say you wouldn't be happier on a merged server? What is it that makes you so happy to want to stay on that specific server even if all the technical issues would be solved with a 100% guarantee that you'll be merged with another server without any issues or losses?

 

That is what I am unable to understand because the argument of technical issues makes sense and I wouldn't want to merge for exactly those reasons. But because of sentimental value? Knowing how much that would thwart the rest of the community? I'd just treasure my memories and look forward to making new ones on the merged servers.

One of the reasons some people don't want to merge is because they don't want to end up on a server like Harbinger, which is widely known for rude behavior and trolling. While it happens some on other servers, Harbinger is known for it which makes it a server a lot of people do not want to move to it as the servers they are on have a nice community.

Why we want server merge? What is the benefit? I guess is higher FP, WZ and UR pop!!! But server merge have lots of problems involved (naming, trolling or rudeness of ppl, strongholds, returning ppl, etc). So, what other solution could have to get more pops???? How about a shared GF server? I mean, everybody stays in his server... the content, chats, sh, legacy info, etc, everything is still on ppl current server, but, when q for WZ or FP or GF in general, you are queueing in the GF server, so the formed group can have ppl from different servers... when you get a pop and load the, lets say, the warzone, you still download the content from your original server, but, the stream of combat data, and the WZ chat are served from the GF server. Maybe would be good to have more than one GF server for geography to have good latency. And maybe would be good to have a GF chat.

I worked in system dev like 17 years now, never in gaming thought... i guess that this solution could be easier to implement than server merge, taking care of naming, SH, legacy, dedicated channels for RP, trolling, etc, etc, etc...

TL;DR: what problem does we want to solve with server merge? Is it possible to have another creative, better solution for that problem?

While I understand forcibly moving someone is never fun, but even if all the issues Keith mentioned would be solved with a 100% guarantee why would you still not want to move?

Because I don't like waiting in line to do missions like The Face Merchants, where it's a small group of mobs that need killing with an obnoxiously long respawn timer

One of the reasons some people don't want to merge is because they don't want to end up on a server like Harbinger, which is widely known for rude behavior and trolling. While it happens some on other servers, Harbinger is known for it which makes it a server a lot of people do not want to move to it as the servers they are on have a nice community.

There's also this. I wouldn't mind rolling Jung Ma into Ebon Hawk (RP-PvP -> RP-PvE), but I personally want no intermingling with the Harbinger, and that's little to do with east coast/west coast lag issues. That's a known toxic server that I really don't care to be subjected to.

I'm sure there are many good and kind people on Harbinger, but it has the reputation it's got for a reason...

For the specific Guild issues you’ve raised, we would need to ensure the entire Guild, their Flagship/decorations, Bank/Tabs/items, and Stronghold/decorations remain 100% intact. The goal would be for the Guild members to notice absolutely nothing different and this means any returning players would still be in your guild unless you specifically removed them. Bottom line for your Guild would be making sure we protect all your hard work.

 

The losing of character names is one of the key points we are still discussing. We know there’s a variety of issues to resolve including, but not limited to, name collisions, establishing a priority system, purging of old names beforehand, and players attempting to reserve names. We all have character names we want to preserve, so this is a key factor in the overall decision.

 

-Keith--

The same problem is with other servers. German servers are also pretty dead, and server merges are required. Language problem is not an issue, since tre is already full of polish, russians, Belorussians and other nationalities, and i dont see any problems between them and english players.

Save your servers until it is too late or people on dead servers will start to leave the game.

Why we want server merge? What is the benefit? I guess is higher FP, WZ and UR pop!!! But server merge have lots of problems involved (naming, trolling or rudeness of ppl, strongholds, returning ppl, etc). So, what other solution could have to get more pops???? How about a shared GF server? I mean, everybody stays in his server... the content, chats, sh, legacy info, etc, everything is still on ppl current server, but, when q for WZ or FP or GF in general, you are queueing in the GF server, so the formed group can have ppl from different servers... when you get a pop and load the, lets say, the warzone, you still download the content from your original server, but, the stream of combat data, and the WZ chat are served from the GF server. Maybe would be good to have more than one GF server for geography to have good latency. And maybe would be good to have a GF chat.

I worked in system dev like 17 years now, never in gaming thought... i guess that this solution could be easier to implement than server merge, taking care of naming, SH, legacy, dedicated channels for RP, trolling, etc, etc, etc...

 

TL;DR: what problem does we want to solve with server merge? Is it possible to have another creative, better solution for that problem?

They were told about making cross-server, everyone wants it, it would be the best solution. YET IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. so /fail

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One of the reasons some people don't want to merge is because they don't want to end up on a server like Harbinger, which is widely known for rude behavior and trolling. While it happens some on other servers, Harbinger is known for it which makes it a server a lot of people do not want to move to it as the servers they are on have a nice community.

Your "some people" are in minority. Even bioware sees the importance of server merge. It is inevitable, or swtor will be finished. Either cross server queues or server merge. Third variant (doing nothing) = death

Your "some people" are in minority. Even bioware sees the importance of server merge. It is inevitable, or swtor will be finished. Either cross server queues or server merge. Third variant (doing nothing) = death

Casi and I are on Ebon Hawk, which gets on just fine without Harbinger. Let the west coast get rolled into Harbinger, leave us out of it. We can take Jung Ma, and Shadowlands/Jedi Covenant can have the rest

Casi and I are on Ebon Hawk, which gets on just fine without Harbinger. Let the west coast get rolled into Harbinger, leave us out of it. We can take Jung Ma, and Shadowlands/Jedi Covenant can have the rest

What means "we can take"? All servers except rp must be merged in one, your server will stay as it is lol. Rp is a thing which must be participated wilingful , without force since it has special rulles of behavior. You guys continue to say server merges are not needed, so you WONT get it. Don't expect to receive merge advantages when your server stays as it is.

What means "we can take"? All servers except rp must be merged in one, your server will stay as it is lol. Rp is a thing which must be participated wilingful , without force since it has special rulles of behavior. You guys continue to say server merges are not needed, so you WONT get it. Don't expect to receive merge advantages when your server stays as it is.

Jung Ma is also an RP server, which is why I mentioned it. Other servers can roll together and enjoy their 3-5 minute Warzone queue times, I'm perfectly happy with my friendlier community and 7-10 minute queues : )