For all of those not familiar with this set up, I'm have been compiling a series of lists cataloging the most powerful Force users, Jedi and Sith created through discussion and debate, as opposed to simply giving our own personal opinions. These lists are now complete - though likely subject to change in the near future - and can be checked out in the index. In this case however I am moving a way from Force abilities, and looking to another integral skill of Force using individuals - lightsaber skill. Note that I'm not asking for a list of who you think the most powerful lightsaber duelists are - and by power I do indeed mean skill. As before we'll do this one position at a time.

So without further ado, lets move on to the next list in the series. Lightsaber duelists. As there are no canon statements regarding the most skilled duelists, none of the positions will be pre-determined. Also note that this list will be taking into account anyone who has ever wielded a lightsaber, but for obvious reasons it will likely consist solely of Force users.

Anyway, the template!

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Yoda

3. Mace Windu

4. Darth Caedus

5. Darth Sidious

6. Jaina Solo

7. Exar Kun

8. Darth Vader

9. Count Dooku

10. Obi-Wan Kenobi

NOTE: Before some wise guys draws our attention to this quote: "If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old Masters." you should take note that ancient Sith are not been considered for this list due to lack of information. Not that this quote is entirely irrelevant to the still of lightsaber duelists in the Old Republic era.

Like before I'll be updating this list as we go along.

1.Luke Skywalker.

2.Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious.

4.Master Yoda.

We should debate these four first.

1.Luke Skywalker.

2.Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious.

4.Master Yoda.

 

We should debate these four first.

Yoda was more skilled than Mace Windu, despite what the film shows. In the book Sidious aka Palpatine was letting Windu get the edge, so as to push Anakin over the edge. so for me it's:-

1. Jedi Grandmaster Luke Skywalker
   
2. Darth Sidious aka Emperor Palatine
   
3. Master Yoda
   
4. Master Mace Windu
   

Is #1 not obvious?

Also, Dooku should be guaranteed a spot in this thread.

1.Luke Skywalker.

2.Mace Windu.

3.Darth Sidious.

4.Master Yoda.

 

We should debate these four first.

The book states clearly that they were equal but Windu being a better tactician forced him onto the ledge, Sidious' only advantage in this battle was a ludicrous amount of Force Speed to keep up, once he was forced into concentrating on not flying out the window, by redirecting his force energy, he slowed down and then got a boot-print in his face.

Windu won the duel fair and square, it was quite obviously afterwards, when Anakin was actually there that Sidious put on the charade, Sidious could have killed him any time with Force Lightning as Windu's blade bent back towards his face so much that he was barely holding on and was choking on ozone fumes.

It is clear to me that Windu beat Sidious in that duel, the feigning part didn't come till afterwards.

Also, whilst sparring engagements are good tests of skill, I think against a Sith Windu will always be superior to Yoda during a duel, Vaapad clearly made the difference for Windu in that duel, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar dropped like flies, Fisto performed slightly better but that's likely due to his balanced fighting style. Whereas Vaapad clearly kept Windu alive.

Against each other? perhaps Yoda is superior in a way, but in actual lightsaber duels, Windu would perform better against the Sith, which frankly is all that matters.

Is #1 not obvious?

No Aurbere, its not Plo Koon.

Nah, it's obviously Cin Drallig, right Wolf?

From what I recall, Dooku was considered a very skilled duelist, rivaling Yoda and Windu.

To throw a non-Force-user out there, Grievous was definitely a skilled lightsaber duelist, seeing how many Jedi he could kill, and how many he could take on at once.

No Aurbere, its not Plo Koon.

:(

Well lets go one at at time first. We know for one that Luke Skywalker defeated Darth Sidious in a lightsaber duel before reaching his prime. But was he aided by Leia in that duel? Considering the fact that Sidious defeated him before hand.

Yes, but we also know that he got better as time progressed, by the time he was Grandmaster he far outstripped Sidious or anyone else for that matter. In the Thrawn trilogy he reflects an ATAT's blasters despite being in a pocket were the force did not exist, this was shear skill (I think he also poisoned as well). He learnt all that Sidious did, and by the time he rebuilds the order could have outfought two Sidious's at once IMO.

The book states clearly that they were equal but Windu being a better tactician forced him onto the ledge, Sidious' only advantage in this battle was a ludicrous amount of Force Speed to keep up, once he was forced into concentrating on not flying out the window, by redirecting his force energy, he slowed down and then got a boot-print in his face.

 

Windu won the duel fair and square, it was quite obviously afterwards, when Anakin was actually there that Sidious put on the charade, Sidious could have killed him any time with Force Lightning as Windu's blade bent back towards his face so much that he was barely holding on and was choking on ozone fumes.

 

It is clear to me that Windu beat Sidious in that duel, the feigning part didn't come till afterwards.

 

Also, whilst sparring engagements are good tests of skill, I think against a Sith Windu will always be superior to Yoda during a duel, Vaapad clearly made the difference for Windu in that duel, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar dropped like flies, Fisto performed slightly better but that's likely due to his balanced fighting style. Whereas Vaapad clearly kept Windu alive.

 

Against each other? perhaps Yoda is superior in a way, but in actual lightsaber duels, Windu would perform better against the Sith, which frankly is all that matters.

Ok, fair enough.

The book states clearly that they were equal but Windu being a better tactician forced him onto the ledge, Sidious' only advantage in this battle was a ludicrous amount of Force Speed to keep up, once he was forced into concentrating on not flying out the window, by redirecting his force energy, he slowed down and then got a boot-print in his face.

 

Windu won the duel fair and square, it was quite obviously afterwards, when Anakin was actually there that Sidious put on the charade, Sidious could have killed him any time with Force Lightning as Windu's blade bent back towards his face so much that he was barely holding on and was choking on ozone fumes.

 

It is clear to me that Windu beat Sidious in that duel, the feigning part didn't come till afterwards.

 

Also, whilst sparring engagements are good tests of skill, I think against a Sith Windu will always be superior to Yoda during a duel, Vaapad clearly made the difference for Windu in that duel, Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar dropped like flies, Fisto performed slightly better but that's likely due to his balanced fighting style. Whereas Vaapad clearly kept Windu alive.

 

Against each other? perhaps Yoda is superior in a way, but in actual lightsaber duels, Windu would perform better against the Sith, which frankly is all that matters.

And how does Vaapad play into this? Could it not be said that Windu's ability to draw on Sidious' dark side energies was the only reason he was able to stand up to his incredible lightsaber skills. Let's remember that Windu was not nearly as impressive against Jedi, no way would Windu have been able to defeat all three of those Jedi Council members as quickly as Sidious did.

Yes, but we also know that he got better as time progressed, by the time he was Grandmaster he far outstripped Sidious or anyone else for that matter. In the Thrawn trilogy he reflects an ATAT's blasters despite being in a pocket were the force did not exist, this was shear skill (I think he also poisoned as well). He learnt all that Sidious did, and by the time he rebuilds the order could have outfought two Sidious's at once IMO.

But I certainly support Luke Skywalker for #1.

Surely however that only proves they are equal? Mace Windu only won through superior tactical ability, and lets face it Sidious being a masterful tactician himself likely let him have that advantage, if that had never happened - the duel would have gone on indefinitely. This itself is stated in the novel.

 

And how does Vaapad play into this? Could it not be said that Windu's ability to draw on Sidious' dark side energies was the only reason he was able to stand up to his incredible lightsaber skills. Let's remember that Windu was not nearly as impressive against Jedi, no way would Windu have been able to defeat all three of those Jedi Council members as quickly as Sidious did.

I maintain, as seen in the Plagueis novel that Sidious was such a good duellist.... because he was exceptional at Force Speed, I think perhaps that his lightsaber skills may not be as good without it, his speed was so much that Tiin and Kolar didn't even register his attack, all they heard was a Sith Battle Cry before the first slice.

This certainly isn't canon, but it is my impression from the book, if the force, as in force attacks, had been kept out of it, they would have gone on for a long time, but I believe that Windu's stamina would have out-lasted Sidious' force energy reserves, he WOULD have slowed down, after that duel and after his engagement, both times he registers his dissatisfaction with his body, because he felt extremely exhausted and basically like an old man, I don't think Sidious could have out-lasted Windu with his speed and the moment that he does begin to slow down, he is done for, he HAS to fall back on his force prowess or he's dead.

Whether or not Sidious allowed him to is not clear, we know he is a master manipulator but how effective would that be in a high speed duel with one of the best duellists ever, he would have to lose his focus and concentration and I just do not believe that would be possible against a duellist of Windu's calibre.

Now could Windu defeat Tiin, Kolar and Fisto at once? no idea, but due to the fact that the Order made him the Master of the Order on the High Council, not Yoda, must signify something.

I maintain, as seen in the Plagueis novel that Sidious was such a good duellist.... because he was exceptional at Force Speed, I think perhaps that his lightsaber skills may not be as good without it, his speed was so much that Tiin and Kolar didn't even register his attack, all they heard was a Sith Battle Cry before the first slice.

 

This certainly isn't canon, but it is my impression from the book, if the force, as in force attacks, had been kept out of it, they would have gone on for a long time, but I believe that Windu's stamina would have out-lasted Sidious' force energy reserves, he WOULD have slowed down, after that duel and after his engagement, both times he registers his dissatisfaction with his body, because he felt extremely exhausted and basically like an old man, I don't think Sidious could have out-lasted Windu with his speed and the moment that he does begin to slow down, he is done for, he HAS to fall back on his force prowess or he's dead.

 

Whether or not Sidious allowed him to is not clear, we know he is a master manipulator but how effective would that be in a high speed duel with one of the best duellists ever, he would have to lose his focus and concentration and I just do not believe that would be possible against a duellist of Windu's calibre.

 

Now could Windu defeat Tiin, Kolar and Fisto at once? no idea, but due to the fact that the Order made him the Master of the Order on the High Council, not Yoda, must signify something.

Much of his skill may be down to Force speed, but much of Windu's skill is down to Vaapad - which arguably negate one-another. And I feel if Windu had faced DE Sidious he would have lost.

From what I recall, Dooku was considered a very skilled duelist, rivaling Yoda and Windu.

Dooku is one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time. It would be wrong if he didn't make this list.

Duelists?

1. Grand Master Luke Skywalker

2. Mace Windu

3. Sideous

4. Malgus

5. Jaina Solo

6. Caedus

7. Anakin Solo

8. Obi-wan Kenobi

9. Darth Bane

10. Count Dooku

My top 10

Duelists?

 

1. Grand Master Luke Skywalker

2. Mace Windu

3. Sideous

4. Malgus

5. Jaina Solo

6. Caedus

7. Anakin Solo

8. Obi-wan Kenobi

9. Darth Bane

10. Count Dooku

 

My top 10

Top 10s are discouraged, the only reason I posted four earlier is because of how damn close those four could be.

OK, I'm going to place Luke Skywalker as #1.

Aww. And I thought, for sure, that Plo Koon would pull it out.

I think, instead of using Sidious as a comparison point for Yoda and Windu, I think we should use Dooku.

Considering in a lightsaber duel Mace windu smacked Sideous down like a 2 year old[no sideous was not faking that, Windu did indeed beat him], Dooku would onto of fared well against mace. Windu IMO should be second. Not even a contest.

Considering in a lightsaber duel Mace windu smacked Sideous down like a 2 year old[no sideous was not faking that, Windu did indeed beat him], Dooku would onto of fared well against mace. Windu IMO should be second. Not even a contest.

We all know Mace won that duel. But we seem to be getting stuck on how the two would fair against Prime Sidious. Hence why I pointed to Dooku.