Ditto. I do this for anyone, male or female, young or old, rich or poor because I'm a polite person. I understand why people might think I'm being sexist but it's not the case. Lots of behavioural modes have changed meaning over the years (Samhain to Hallowe'en, Yule to Christmas, chasing invading tribes away to running after the marriage car as it leaves) and I can see a great deal of benefit to this one being the same. Rather than 'Don't hold doors open for women' there's no reason it couldn't change to 'hold doors open for anyone'.

 

Having said that y'all DO know this whole conversation is going to get purged, right?

 

On that note while I have no inherent issue with the use of the term I'd like to point out that originally 'Chauvinism' referred to Nicholas Chauvin's overwhelming belief in Napoleon's (and by extension Napoleon's forces') superiority. That's why the mistaken belief of male superiority over women is called 'male chauvinism'. Just thought you'd like to know (though you probably already do). Chauvinism doesn't have to have anything at all to do with gender.

Interesting factoid. It has certainly become that over time, though. So many things in our language has strange origins. If this gets purged, so be it, we still had a conversation.

Yeah....I'm female, I even hold doors open for men. It's polite. High ranking officials are generally treated with the same kind of respect, regardless of gender. Same with how servers generally treat customers in fancy restaurants. I'm more concerned with someone's intent and personal respect.

Don't get hung up on holding open doors, I hold open doors for both sexes as well. That's a different polite tradition than believing you must open a door for a *lady*. My words apply more to things that most people only do for women, like pulling out a chair for them at the table, helping them into a car, etc.

Again, there are certainly going to be times where this is appropriate or at least appreciated. For example, if a woman is in a complicated dress, she might appreciate you holding her chair out for her while she gathers it up to sit down. An elderly person might really appreciate or even need help getting into a car.

How it all relates to Corso, however, is that it becomes chauvinistic when you only do those things for women and it is your default and overriding behavior because you believe that's just how women ought to be treated. Corso shows his true colors right off the bat, when a woman who has betrayed you and him and risked your lives is confronted. If you kill her, he objects. Not because he doesn't agree with the dark side choice, but because he believes you treat women a certain way and that certainly doesn't include killing them. The way he says it makes it sound as if he would be fine with the execution if she were male. You can't call it misogynistic, because it isn't rooted in hate. But it definitely applies for chauvinistic sexism.

I'm not sure if as a female smuggler you have the option to tell him to shut that off when he deals with you, but even if you do I doubt he listens. It seems to be a core part of his personality. And that's the thing. You're absolutely right that you shouldn't take undo flack just for trying to be polite, but if a person tells you they take offense to how you are treating them, you need to change how you treat them. Doesn't matter how polite you think you are being.

Pulling out a chair for a woman who doesn't want to be treated that way once is an honest mistake. Doing it anyway after she told you she doesn't like it just because you insist that's polite behavior is rude at best, and probably chauvinistic.

Don't get hung up on holding open doors, I hold open doors for both sexes as well. That's a different polite tradition than believing you must open a door for a *lady*. My words apply more to things that most people only do for women, like pulling out a chair for them at the table, helping them into a car, etc.

 

Again, there are certainly going to be times where this is appropriate or at least appreciated. For example, if a woman is in a complicated dress, she might appreciate you holding her chair out for her while she gathers it up to sit down. An elderly person might really appreciate or even need help getting into a car.

 

How it all relates to Corso, however, is that it becomes chauvinistic when you only do those things for women and it is your default and overriding behavior because you believe that's just how women ought to be treated. Corso shows his true colors right off the bat, when a woman who has betrayed you and him and risked your lives is confronted. If you kill her, he objects. Not because he doesn't agree with the dark side choice, but because he believes you treat women a certain way and that certainly doesn't include killing them. The way he says it makes it sound as if he would be fine with the execution if she were male. You can't call it misogynistic, because it isn't rooted in hate. But it definitely applies for chauvinistic sexism.

 

I'm not sure if as a female smuggler you have the option to tell him to shut that off when he deals with you, but even if you do I doubt he listens. It seems to be a core part of his personality. And that's the thing. You're absolutely right that you shouldn't take undo flack just for trying to be polite, but if a person tells you they take offense to how you are treating them, you need to change how you treat them. Doesn't matter how polite you think you are being.

 

Pulling out a chair for a woman who doesn't want to be treated that way once is an honest mistake. Doing it anyway after she told you she doesn't like it just because you insist that's polite behavior is rude at best, and probably chauvinistic.

"I take offense to you being polite. Stop it."

Yeaaaah. Maybe it isn't Corso with the problem.

"I take offense to you being polite. Stop it."

 

Yeaaaah. Maybe it isn't Corso with the problem.

Poor Corso... he'd like to help with the Captain's chair, but sitting's not allowed in-game.

I get the argument, mostly - but holding a door is akin to treating someone like an invalid? It's just courtesy, it's not like they're trying to cut your food for you.

"I take offense to you being polite. Stop it."

 

Yeaaaah. Maybe it isn't Corso with the problem.

I like Corso. Don't have a problem with him. I'd roll my eyes and curse at him if he got killed because he refused to shoot back at a female threat like he implies he would. ("You ladies sure can be vicious, I hope you don't ever expect me to shoot a woman.") Not that his statement really holds up to gameplay as you kill plenty of female NPCs with his help.

All I'm saying is I can see how patronizing his attitude is. It doesn't matter how you treat someone differently, it matters that you treat them differently at all, and why. Treating someone differently because they are a woman is sexist, even if you are sickeningly nice about it.

I can see how it would look like I'm harping having made 3 posts about it, but I'm really just making a point. I'm not trying to paint accidental chauvinists as the worst people in the world. (Or bad people at all really.) It's annoying at worst, and at least they aren't misogynists.

I like Corso. Don't have a problem with him. I'd roll my eyes and curse at him if he got killed because he refused to shoot back at a female threat like he implies he would. ("You ladies sure can be vicious, I hope you don't ever expect me to shoot a woman.") Not that his statement really holds up to gameplay as you kill plenty of female NPCs with his help.

 

All I'm saying is I can see how patronizing his attitude is. It doesn't matter how you treat someone differently, it matters that you treat them differently at all, and why. Treating someone differently because they are a woman is sexist, even if you are sickeningly nice about it.

 

I can see how it would look like I'm harping having made 3 posts about it, but I'm really just making a point. I'm not trying to paint accidental chauvinists as the worst people in the world. (Or bad people at all really.) It's annoying at worst, and at least they aren't misogynists.

Don't even bother with the person you are responding to... seriously. It's not worth the mental effort.

"I take offense to you being polite. Stop it."

 

Yeaaaah. Maybe it isn't Corso with the problem.

It's actually valid, I mean look at the end of Ord Mantell.

Let's divert this away from "Corso inherently treats you differently if you're a woman" and onto "Why PAR is one of my favourite magazines ever":

Not a Media Trend or PC Bull*****

Yes, it's a straight white male talking about equality, again, but he does it a frank manner that does not attempt to pander to the majority of his readers, but rather approach them as equals and then gives dissenters (like the quoted) a dressing down for letting minor concerns govern their gaming and for not realizing that there are people who are not them that like to play games.

The article itself springs from the comments on a previous article about a new game, Torment, but the article itself is relevant to all games, with examples from recent releases and events.

A little something to get us slightly back on course...o

*They're filtering the link - so I'm directing you to the front page with part of the headline.

Am I a bad nerd if I saw PAR and thought of golf, rather than Penny Arcade? (I'm getting too old for this 'internet' thing)

No XD I'm sure there are a few people who don't know that Penny Arcade have their own magazine. I didn't for the longest time

They also did a short column on Mr. Hickman's State of the Game 3 and, to their credit, never once touched the Makeb announcement drama, though I do hope that PAR does cover the SGR [Flirt]s and on-going saga at some point, if only because I'm curious about their opinions and if they'd be able to get BW:Austin to talk about something for once.

Well, they did know TOR was a thing before it was actually a thing, so if anyone can find out more, you'd think it would be them...

That's terrifyingly accurate.

Personally I'm a fan of PAR's honesty and I also think that they tend to handle subjects in a less... theatrical manner. Bioware: Austin should totes to do an interview with them *nudge nudge*

Also, another thing BW: Austin should do is address Uluain's big list You know you want to answer Uluain's big list.

Don't even bother with the person you are responding to... seriously. It's not worth the mental effort.

You're obviously a nice guy who added a lot to the discussion. Thank you so much. It's nice to see nice guys like you still exist in the world of internet forums.

Any link on that state of the game article? I searched the site and couldnt find it.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-gained-more-than-2-million-new-users-since-g

That's about Mr. Hickman's State of the Game #3.

I can't directly link to the equality article because it has a swear in it, but it should be easy to find.

Let's divert this away from "Corso inherently treats you differently if you're a woman" and onto "Why PAR is one of my favourite magazines ever":

 

Not a Media Trend or PC Bull*****

 

Yes, it's a straight white male talking about equality, again, but he does it a frank manner that does not attempt to pander to the majority of his readers, but rather approach them as equals and then gives dissenters (like the quoted) a dressing down for letting minor concerns govern their gaming and for not realizing that there are people who are not them that like to play games.

 

The article itself springs from the comments on a previous article about a new game, Torment, but the article itself is relevant to all games, with examples from recent releases and events.

 

A little something to get us slightly back on course...o

 

*They're filtering the link - so I'm directing you to the front page with part of the headline.

Wow, awesome article, thanks for putting that up there for us. Really love the guys over at PA.

I especially enjoyed the part at the end about what other groups have to face, if only more people could consider things like that we'd all be better off.

^.^

Also, another thing BW: Austin should do is address Uluain's big list You know you want to answer Uluain's big list.

Indeed - we never hear anything about our FAQ equivalent to the "Wall of Crazy". Someone should really get on that.

I am personally looking forward to SGR in the game. Video games are a rising source of social media and as such they can have negative or positive influences on people. For me Bioware games provided wonderful influence, in terms of accepting sexualities of all kinds. I love doing hetero and homosexual romances with characters in ME3, particularly with Kaiden. Yes I'm a Kaiden fanboy.

Thinking about what other posters have said, we have SGR in the game.

If they truely believe gender is a state of mind, all one has to do is say their character identifies as a male or female (opposite of their choosen avatar) and thus SGR romances have been achieved.

Mind you, this only works for those who truely believe that mental gender is ones true gender, as quite a few seem to believe, as they were adamantly oppossed to anyone who didn't believe it, it makes one wonder why they didn't go that route.

Thinking about what other posters have said, we have SGR in the game.

 

If they truely believe gender is a state of mind, all one has to do is say their character identifies as a male or female (opposite of their choosen avatar) and thus SGR romances have been achieved.

 

Mind you, this only works for those who truely believe that mental gender is ones true gender, as quite a few seem to believe, as they were adamantly oppossed to anyone who didn't believe it, it makes one wonder why they didn't go that route.

I detect a particularly snide tone. But if one wants to play a transgendered character whose physical form happens to align itself more or less with the in-game models presented, yes, that's quite possible.

If however one doesn't want to play a transgendered character and is adult enough to cope with the concept that gender identity and physical sex are different from each other then we have a considerable way to go before said people (those who want to play cisgendered LGB characters) get SGRs in-game.

http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-gained-more-than-2-million-new-users-since-g

 

That's about Mr. Hickman's State of the Game #3.

 

I can't directly link to the equality article because it has a swear in it, but it should be easy to find.

Thank you very much

Thinking about what other posters have said, we have SGR in the game.

 

If they truely believe gender is a state of mind, all one has to do is say their character identifies as a male or female (opposite of their choosen avatar) and thus SGR romances have been achieved.

 

Mind you, this only works for those who truely believe that mental gender is ones true gender, as quite a few seem to believe, as they were adamantly oppossed to anyone who didn't believe it, it makes one wonder why they didn't go that route.

I'm sorry, did you just say that if one character is a transwoman and is made with the female body in this game, and she romances Vector, that because she was born and assigned male at birth, that she is in fact having a gay relationship with Vector?

Because if you are, you are wrong on so many, many levels, it's disgusting.

I'm sorry, did you just say that if one character is a transwoman and is made with the female body in this game, and she romances Vector, that because she was born and assigned male at birth, that she is in fact having a gay relationship with Vector?

 

Because if you are, you are wrong on so many, many levels, it's disgusting.

I believe he's saying the opposite, that one can have an 'SGRA' with, say, Vector by playing a pre-op F-to-M transgendered person (ie. playing a female PC but stating they're male via identity). Though I may be wrong.