DubFanahtic Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I haven't been able to test the raw dmg output of both these classes yet, but when listening to the community and browsing the forums, people say that PT PVE DPS might be higher than Merc's PVE DPS? Is that true? On my merc I just feel like I do way more damage, with tracers + unload + HSM's and all while when I play on my powertech it's just a constant flame burst + Railshot + rocketbunch + TD rotation, and feels way less bursty. Is it true that PT DPS trumps both PVE AND PVP DPS with regards to merc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatOut_nlF Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Yes, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) It is, however for PVE TD actually lowers Powertech dps significantly. Try using the 8 / 5 / 28 build with priorities as: Incendiary Missile DOT Rail Shot Flame Burst (always keep the Combustible Gas Cylinder DOT active as well) / Rocket Punch Flamethrower (under 20% heat straight after a Prototype Particle Accelerator Rail Shot, the 3 second cast time of Flamethrower means PPA will probably be ready to proc straight after its finished.) Rapid shots (over 20% heat) Edited December 15, 2012 by I_Sithed_MyPants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slicksteezin Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 No, its not. ran parsers with both sub classes. PT is a close follow but merc is the PvE winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheEleven Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It is, however for PVE TD actually lowers Powertech dps significantly. Try using the 8 / 5 / 28 build with priorities as: Incendiary Missile DOT Rail Shot Flame Burst (always keep the Combustible Gas Cylinder DOT active as well) / Rocket Punch Flamethrower (under 20% heat straight after a Prototype Particle Accelerator Rail Shot, the 3 second cast time of Flamethrower means PPA will probably be ready to proc straight after its finished.) Rapid shots (over 20% heat) This just boggles my mind. I've read the math on TD and how it lowers DPS for a Pyrotech. But I'll be damned if I ever get rid of it. My TD crits for almost 5k, and does so frequently (tech chance at 45%). I just love it so much that I can't bring myself to get rid of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raekor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If there was a fight that was pure turret I still don't think Merc's would beat 7(8)/6(5)/28 PT. As soon as some movement becomes necessary then Merc's start falling behind. Don't get me wrong, their DPS output is good enough for everything (haven't been able to get in 16 man NiEC yet due to logistics and connection issues). I wouldn't class myself as a great player, but decent enough to get my Warstalker title. Even 8 man NiEC won't allow for somebody to be carried to that. I haven't had a chance to get on my PT since upgrading from a 26 to 27 barrel and some other armorings and mods, but his DPS was comparable to my BiS Merc before getting them (and already better in some fights). All that said, Merc is still my main and I don't see that changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 PT DPS is superior to Merc DPS in both PvE and PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wetslampigduex Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This just boggles my mind. I've read the math on TD and how it lowers DPS for a Pyrotech. But I'll be damned if I ever get rid of it. My TD crits for almost 5k, and does so frequently (tech chance at 45%). I just love it so much that I can't bring myself to get rid of it I agree with you 100% and had the same feeling as you did. Then i finally brought myself to it and got rid of TD. It is in fact a dps increase, also much easier to manage heat. However, PvP i would always take the TD build because the burst is unmatched all crits your looking at 14-16k dmg in about 5 seconds. As far as overall dps in Pve Merc and Powertech are very close, i've had to pug many raids lately and when the ones where ive been forced to use a parse(which i dont mind) out of about 10 raids I've only seen one person keep up with me and that was a merc. On avg. i beat most others by a couple hundred dps as a PT but the merc always finished right there within in 20k dmg in each fight in HM tfb. All in all if you can play a merc and put up huge numbers stick with it all though i don't have one i'd imagine life is much easier as a ranged DPS. And someone stated to use Flame Thrower in your rotation, that is a dps loss unless there is more than one target. Mine hits for roughly 1650 a tick with crits.. which is a loss if your going after a 2k ish parse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malispar Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 If Torparse is legit, yes PT can be better than Merc. However they're so close that it really doesn't matter much. Bring the player not the class and all that. Remember way back when the lead combat designer (he's gone now) stated all classes aside from Marauder and Sniper were within a 5% modicum? They've kept pretty true to that statement I'd say. inb4 Operative dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Remember way back when the lead combat designer (he's gone now) stated all classes aside from Marauder and Sniper were within a 5% modicum? They've kept pretty true to that statement I'd say. inb4 Operative dps Or Assassin DPS, or Sorcerer DPS Edited December 20, 2012 by RendValor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandreid Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) PT DPS is superior to Merc DPS in both PvE and PvP. But... isn't PT suppose to be a tank class, while Merc is a DPS class? I know thats pretty simply put, but if you watch the "class trailer" you get the impression that one is about disables, flamethrowers, and melee, while the other is about missiles, bombardments and 2x laser pistol. I mean, 2x pistol gotta do more dmg than just one, right? And missiles... that seems pretty caster-like. Melee, with full plate... Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but doesn't a "tank" come to mind pretty quick? These were at least my observations when I saw the trailer before the game was released. I played in the beta and i picked Merc there. I found it really fun, and i wanted to be a DPSer, so naturally I picked Merc as launch, too. Now, I find myself playing a class that's bad at both PvE AND PvP.... Is it even worth continue playing it? I mean, even Bodyguard seems to struggle in PvP, due to long cast times and being very stationary... and that's just a HUGE disadvantage as a caster in PvP. At this moment, I feel I should reroll to a sorc, if I want to be a healer, a sniper or TD if I want to DPS, or TD, Assassin or Jug if I want to Tank.... Whats the point in even continuing? Don't give me that "play what you enjoy". Thats not a answer. I enjoy to not get outplayed at every aspect no matter what I do, okay? Edited December 20, 2012 by Sandreid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RendValor Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) But... isn't PT suppose to be a tank class, while Merc is a DPS class? I know thats pretty simply put, but if you watch the "class trailer" you get the impression that one is about disables, flamethrowers, and melee, while the other is about missiles, bombardments and 2x laser pistol. I mean, 2x pistol gotta do more dmg than just one, right? And missiles... that seems pretty caster-like. Melee, with full plate... Correct me if I'm mistaken here, but doesn't a "tank" come to mind pretty quick? These were at least my observations when I saw the trailer before the game was released. I played in the beta and i picked Merc there. I found it really fun, and i wanted to be a DPSer, so naturally I picked Merc as launch, too. Now, I find myself playing a class that's bad at both PvE AND PvP.... Is it even worth continue playing it? I mean, even Bodyguard seems to struggle in PvP, due to long cast times and being very stationary... and that's just a HUGE disadvantage as a caster in PvP. At this moment, I feel I should reroll to a sorc, if I want to be a healer, a sniper or TD if I want to DPS, or TD, Assassin or Jug if I want to Tank.... Whats the point in even continuing? Don't give me that "play what you enjoy". Thats not a answer. I enjoy to not get outplayed at every aspect no matter what I do, okay? Oh my bad, you're right. I guess your assesment of the current balance just from watching a trailer is more accurate. Edited December 21, 2012 by RendValor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandreid Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Oh my bad, you're right. I guess your assesment of the current balance just from watching a trailer is more accurate. You completely missed my point. I was merely questioning the balance. Not stating anyone was wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melon_Lord Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I think most people had that reaction for Mercs vs PTs, "My unload crits for 3.7-4k and I can do it like every 6 seconds then throw in tracers, rails and HSM *** can beat that?" First time I fought Ciphas, Heirad, and Kel’Sara and there happened to be a PT in the group, I can tell you I had to cancel unload and tracer so many times because of all the moving, I was actually getting pretty mad and the PT just took off in Mox when we finished I think I was about 250k behind. However, the upside is like I think someone mentioned before, if you don't have to move much you can contend with the better dps classes for top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandreid Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I think most people had that reaction for Mercs vs PTs, "My unload crits for 3.7-4k and I can do it like every 6 seconds then throw in tracers, rails and HSM *** can beat that?" First time I fought Ciphas, Heirad, and Kel’Sara and there happened to be a PT in the group, I can tell you I had to cancel unload and tracer so many times because of all the moving, I was actually getting pretty mad and the PT just took off in Mox when we finished I think I was about 250k behind. However, the upside is like I think someone mentioned before, if you don't have to move much you can contend with the better dps classes for top. ...And since PvP is all about moving, juking and kiting... ...you get the rest. No need to repeating myself ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_Sithed_MyPants Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) And someone stated to use Flame Thrower in your rotation, that is a dps loss unless there is more than one target. Mine hits for roughly 1650 a tick with crits.. which is a loss if your going after a 2k ish parse. I could link you numerous parses of Vanguards and Powertechs getting over or close to 2000dps on the ops dummy using Flamethrower in their rotation if you'd like? Also, in an ops situation Death From Above may be better to use than flamethrower as it'll get to benefit from armor debuffs. Flamethrower or DFA is used instead of Rapid Shots when you have some heat to spare, which is why I said when under 20 heat. This is because Flamethrower or DFA is in increase in dps over something such as Rapid Shots and makes heat management easier than spamming Flame Burst. Edited December 21, 2012 by I_Sithed_MyPants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahdasz Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Seems to me like my pyro merc will kills stuff a lot faster than my AP PT, a lot faster. Of course the trade off is I have to make sure nothing gets closer to my pyro than 10 meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouncy_Hunter Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 One has armor rating deduction/cleanse and can weak**** heal, the other has damage, may be a bit more but i'd never pick a PT over a Merc if I had to pick 1 of them to bring to a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holinyx Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 i'm merc dps and i've got no complaints with my PvE dps. I can solo Poisonious Strat on Ilum with no problems, and that to me is a good test. Even in HM FPs and Ops, i've got no complaints. of course i wish they'd change Death From Above back to what it used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftamancer Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) My Main used to be a Merc (Arsenal). Angelix on The Shadowlands, you can look up logs on TORParse if you wish. I played this toon in a PVE environment (Operations) for the past year, up to and including Hardmode TFB (Working on Kephess) and Nightmare Denova (working on Firebrand/Stormcaller). My Main is now a Powertech (Pyro) named Dragonstyle on The Shadowlands. In equivalent gear I am routinely putting out 300 dps more, despite the fact that I've only been playing my Powertech as dps for about a week and a half, which is when I hit level 50. I only have a couple of logs posted to TORParse, but they definitely show the potential of Powertech dps. That said, I'm still learning how best to manage my Heat, as it is far more touch and go than Mercenary. My dps increase over Merc on Target Dummies (6-8 minute sample) with full buffs was roughly 200 to 300 dps single target. Both specs have about the same AOE damage, though the Powertech is more constrained by heat than the Mercenary. The key to powertech is monitoring heat and procs and maintaining a Dot, whereas with merc the challenge is mobility. My Gear level is about 60% Dread Guard, 40% Campaign. Hopefully that answers your Mercenary vs Powertech question =) Edited December 31, 2012 by Craftamancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowseve Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 One thing to keep in mind is that the top dps spot will wax and wane due to nerfs and buffs. It's the nature of class balance. IMO as long as the dps is viable and competitive, play what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmon Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 just wanted to chime in on PT dps, imo its frigging awesome. MOXed TfB hm first boss the other day, mine is only in full rakata, with 1 BH item (ear piece) rest of the raid was full BH. i did 1426 dps by the end of the fight, top DPS was a mara with 1436 dps. and on the TD discusssion, i dont use it, pointless, i also dont use IM either, flame bust gives me my dot i need, i only use FB, RS, RP, Rshots and my dps in rakata is around 1300-1400. IM is far to high an energy cost to ever warrant me using. and i find putting the points for TD into aim more productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Assassin Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Merc/Pyro (0/10/31) vs. VG/AS (8/8/25) Operations Training Dummy, 5+ minute fights. same gear (i swapped mods (61/61/61 all but belt. Merc has 63 barrel, VG has 61WH barrel) from Merc to VG, because, well...Merc sucks in comparison), and nearly same Aim. VG is consistantly 150-200 DPS higher, with max of 1721 DPS (avg. 1650). Merc, while easier to maintain heat, max'd at 1623 (avg. 1520). oh, and i use 8/8/25, stayed at 9.5m, and never used SS to proc HIB!!! (just proving a point that i can instant cast, kite, and DPS more effectively, than a Merc in IDEAL casting situations) this is strictly Pyrotech/Assault Specialist point of view. Edited December 31, 2012 by T-Assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahdasz Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Do these parsers take DOT damage into account? Because lighting stuff on fire vs just shooting the crap out of it is what makes pyros superior, imo. Of course this is just my experiene and observations playing both in PVE. I have never sat down in a laboratory environment and crunched pages of date, nor do I parse combat logs... nor do I intend to. I did enough of all that in SWG, where, imo, it meant a lot more; I decided I'm in this one just for the fun when I finally broked down and bought it. But I am curious about how the two ACs compare DPS-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Assassin Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Do these parsers take DOT damage into account? Because lighting stuff on fire vs just shooting the crap out of it is what makes pyros superior, imo. Of course this is just my experiene and observations playing both in PVE. I have never sat down in a laboratory environment and crunched pages of date, nor do I parse combat logs... nor do I intend to. I did enough of all that in SWG, where, imo, it meant a lot more; I decided I'm in this one just for the fun when I finally broked down and bought it. But I am curious about how the two ACs compare DPS-wise. this is definitely NOT guess work. i've spent about 12+ hours and 2-3 million (mod swapping) testing both Merc/Pyro and VG/Assasult, multiple specs. TORParse breaks down everything. that's not saying i have the best rotation for the class/spec, but i do what i would do in actual combat. i'm sure there is some room for improvement. http://www.torparse.com/a/86351/7 http://www.torparse.com/a/83927/2 Edited December 31, 2012 by T-Assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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