Jump to content

This Ashara Zavros thing.


theBrokenSaint

Recommended Posts

So I know this issue has been up quite a few times already, but I'm seriously annoyed by Ashara Zavros.

 

I play the violent and psychopatic Sith Inquisitor, and I can go through mission conversations completely in character, with Ashara following me, and still have her affection rating increased. Most recent example: On Belsavis, when recruiting the Trandoshan prisoners to police for the Empire, I told the officer in command of that operations group to enslave the Trandoshans, rather than treat them with respect. From that choice alone I got 109 affection points with her, and in total, I got 189 affection points with her for that mission, 40 for suggesting to use the Trandoshans, and 40 more for another conversation that was definetely in character.

 

Now she acts like I've taken on the mission to change the Empire from the inside, even though I'll swear I've never said anything of the sort. I can't even tell her "No, you're mistaken. I never said I wanted to do that ****."

 

She now seems to think I'm something that I most definitely am not, and every single conversation rubs me the wrong way, because, while some of the responses doesn't seem too much out of character, every one of them confirms something I'd rather not.

 

It's not that there's no Dark Side version of Ashara available that bugs me, it's the fact that any affection conversation you have with her seems to assume you're Light Side.

Edited by theBrokenSaint
Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's a character that is walking a path between her LS Jedi heritage and her new DS power and freedom.

 

She dislikes needless cruelty and random acts of Violence (killing the Trandoshans) but approves of shows of strength and activating decisively, even if it involves violence (saving them from Death, enslaving them to put them to work for the empire).

 

She didn't see the Trandoshans as weak. She saw them as bad but powerful. Enslaving them keeps them inline, using them strengthens the empire. She approves. Killing them would go against her core Jedi beliefs and offers no benefit to the empire at all.

 

As soon as I realised that she's a character trying to make sense of the area between total Light Side devotion and complete Dark Side malice the character made much, much more sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's a character that is walking a path between her LS Jedi heritage and her new DS power and freedom.

 

She dislikes needless cruelty and random acts of Violence (killing the Trandoshans) but approves of shows of strength and activating decisively, even if it involves violence (saving them from Death, enslaving them to put them to work for the empire).

 

She didn't see the Trandoshans as weak. She saw them as bad but powerful. Enslaving them keeps them inline, using them strengthens the empire. She approves. Killing them would go against her core Jedi beliefs and offers no benefit to the empire at all.

 

As soon as I realised that she's a character trying to make sense of the area between total Light Side devotion and complete Dark Side malice the character made much, much more sense.

 

As I specified in the OP, the alternative to enslaving them is to treat them with respect, the honourable choice, not killing them. As for making sense of the character, that holocron you provided her did have an impact on her sanity.

 

Or it could be that your just tricking her, cause that's what your doing. You fooled her into thinking your different than other Sith. Manipulation is a tactic that we use to get what we want.

 

I don't see how that deception would pay off. And even if what you say is the case, it still should be a choice.

 

The point of my frustration is not that she seems to think this and that, but that her affection conversations keeps making assumptions that I can't deny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a victim of the infighting and backstabbing of the Darth power structure I don't find issue with Ashara's conversations.

My Master tried to take my body and imprison or destroy my soul.

This is not an indication of a healthy society. I'm DS3 and I have to agree with her that a strong RATIONAL Empire is the most sure way to victory. I'm not on some holy crusade like with Jaesa and my LS SW but destroying entire ecosystems doesn't help win a war. If you can't inhabit the world after winning the battles, then why fight at all? And if the Sith truly believed only the strongest should survive they'd be a society composed of one individual.

 

If you disagree whole heartedly with this POV and just want to watch the galaxy burn then I can see your frustration. But it seems that in the story arc she comes along at just the right time to make your toon question what and who they have been fighting for. It's also nice not to romance a sycophant or psychopath. She seems like a real personality that is trying to come to terms with her new station and overcome the brainwashing the Jedi did to her in her youth.

 

I just wish BW had inserted more world specific companion dialogue into the questlines. If Ashara is along with you on Belsavis then you should get some interesting side conversations about the evils of the Republic as she assimilates the new information. Same with LS Jaesa on the SW. Andronikus or Talos on the other hand would probably wouldn't be phased.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree there should be a way to turn here completely. I surely hope that there is an expansion on this in the future. The SW can turn there companion ls/ds so why cant she. I also remember during KOTOR you could change the entire crew ds/ls. Edited by DarthOweh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree there should be a way to turn here completely. I surely hope that there is an expansion on this in the future. The SW can turn there companion ls/ds so why cant she. I also remember during KOTOR you could change the entire crew ds/ls.

 

Only if it means I can turn Khem Val to the Light Side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree there should be a way to turn here completely. I surely hope that there is an expansion on this in the future. The SW can turn there companion ls/ds so why cant she. I also remember during KOTOR you could change the entire crew ds/ls.

 

That's not my point. I don't want to turn her. I just want her to realise that I prefer the Empire as it is. Mostly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She is terrible. She has no reason to be with you. She really had a horrible story for joining you, and you kill sith that serve you loyally while sparing a weak, and stupid jedi?

 

She can't be turned to the dark, and if you buy her gifts to win her affection, she goes on to praise you for being a light side sith.

 

Worse, every choice you make to tell her NO! YOU'RE SITH, just loses you faction, and she goes along with it anyway, thank you for your help..... but you didn't help, you told her no.

 

It's a railroaded romance with a jedi..... and they aren't going to pay voice actors, programers to change it.... I just wish I could push her out the airlock, cause I never wanted her on my ship to begin with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a railroaded romance with a jedi..... and they aren't going to pay voice actors, programers to change it.... I just wish I could push her out the airlock, cause I never wanted her on my ship to begin with.

This will sound a bit troll-e but you don't have to have conversations with her. If you like her in battle you can summon another companion before the cut scenes and then whip her out to cut through the enemies. If you're just trying to get her affection up for Skill crits then you leave her to stew in the engine room begging to talk to you and ignore her. At least she doesn't betray you.

 

Removing her entirely seems harsh. She's not a truly good person, she's just deluded into thinking she's good. But then, isn't that how truly evil acts all begin? "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I just want to drive her down that road to hell and right now we're stuck on the on ramp.:eek:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

actually i like Ash and her "grey side", the way you get her is also pretty good and you can do that aimed by good intents or even as a manipulative sith who tempt her and cause her fall

 

i see the dialogues as pretty much the same, you can be genuine in what you say as much as you are telling her what she wants to hear just to manipulate her

 

and for the romance, i dont see why a evil sith lord who focus on strenght and destruction have to romance anyone, especially a char as ash

 

for some reason i dont see palpatine telling to young anakin that he is an evil lord of the sith and the galaxy is going to burn under his iron fist, nor i see him gifting teddy bears to the hot senator girl who sit near his seat :p

 

 

and lets not forget that there are technical reasons for these (lack of) choices... BW chose to remove the option to kill/lose your compaions and Ash will have no reason to stay with murderous/psycopathic sith lord (but this is a problem for all the chars, not just ash)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and for the romance, i dont see why a evil sith lord who focus on strenght and destruction have to romance anyone, especially a char as ash

Everything else in your post, yes. But I have to disagree with the above. She's exactly the type of character a DS SI would want to romance specifically because she's the character she is. Bringing her to him personally is the first step in bringing her to the darkside totally.

 

 

In the romance story line the SI never initiates. He boosts her ego with a comment regarding her beauty. He let's her know of his desire for her and she initiates the physical relationship. That should be proof enough that her Jedi teachings are waning.

 

Remember that you slaughtered the equivalent of her parents in front of her; whether you provoked them in conversation or not, the fight happened. She's immediately drawn to your power whether out of some sense of calling to reform you or for a more titular reason is beside the point. She's having an identity crisis brought on by tragedy, evidence in the face of indoctrination and discovery that the ghost in the Temple was her ancestor and a Sith. There is darkness in her blood...

 

Taking all this into account is why I say that the character story is incomplete. We should be seeing a psychotic break in action with this character but we're stuck in the denial phase. She's clutching to her old identity like a life preserver as the waters of reality seek to drag her under. LS SI would have the option to help her hold onto her identity whereas DS SI would have the option to further show her the hypocrisy and injustice of the Jedi Order and Republlic, explore her evil family heritage and show her the "true meaning of power."

 

I'd like to see these stories play out all the way to where she's an enfeebled quivering mass in the corner of my medbay to bring her back to life in the light or dark as I choose. That would be the story line that shows the manipulative nature of the SI.

Edited by Cherokeewill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I think she is a passionate and confused character. Factor that in with her ability to use the force, makes her a perfect fit for the SI story line.

 

She shows a tremendous amount of turmoil when she gets back from her mecca only to find out she was rejected by the jedi order, and your courtship of her has a resemblance of Palpatine and Anakin, which is what I think the story writers were going for.

 

Edited by Anrix
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think she is a passionate and confused character. Factor that in with her ability to use the force, makes her a perfect fit for the SI story line.

 

She shows a tremendous amount of turmoil when she gets back from her mecca only to find out she was rejected by the jedi order, and your courtship of her has a resemblance of Palpatine and Anakin, which is what I think the story writers were going for.

 

By 'courting', you mean the seduction to the dark side, yea? 'Cause I'd rather not want to think of a Palpatine/Anakin ship...

 

Too late... <.< ... >.>

 

SOMEONE GET THESE PICTURES OUT OF MY HEAD!!!

 

Seriously though, the Palpatine/Sidious thing was what the writers was going for with the overall SI story, so that does make sense.. Only thing is, She doesn't turn Dark Side completely, she just goes insane. At least as far as I can see.

Edited by theBrokenSaint
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ahahaha, some of these posts made me laugh :D! Specially this because I feel it:

 

She is terrible...

 

***

 

... I just wish I could push her out the airlock, cause I never wanted her on my ship to begin with.

 

Anyway, in my opinion, Ashara's story is there to show us how delusional, naive and blind Jedi people are. She feels it but doesn't want to admit it: she gets easily frustrated and mad.:confused:

 

 

In one of the quests you can even tell her she doesn't act like a Jedi. Truth hurts, she doesn't want to hear it and you get - points. :p

 

 

Also, if you follow the story and press on every choice that is given to you, you will see in the quest "Peace is a lie" she asks you to explain that line for her and says: "We learn our code by heart". She follows the code she doesn't believe in. If you ask me, she is brainwashed! ! ! (doom-doom-dooom)

Deep inside she likes the Sith code more but by the default "Republic is good, Empire is evil" and it is hard to admit she is "evil" now.

 

So, I guess, that was the point: how Jedi people are easy to fool and manipulate with. Because of that, I am sure we will have more quests and options with our companions including Ashara.

 

 

p.s. I can't wait for more quests with Andronikos ;):D

Edited by Boyana
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was playing my Jug last night with LS Jaesa by my side and she REALLY got on my nerves. Every conversation option to boast of my power or put down the Republic, even slightly, and I get the disapproving -2 affection or worse. There was actually one quest I took last night that Jaesa gave negative affection for even accepting it, no matter which of the acceptance options I took (kill them all or I'm better then anything they've got) so I used my punish on her. :eek:

 

For all the flaws in her story; the disappointing lead up, the lack of turning or reasons for her joining, etc., at least Ashara let's my SI be powerful and express it. She also has very little love for the Republic, which works for me.

 

Ashara wishlist:

  1. Sith conversion (DS and LS but Sith: Anti-Jedi/Anti-Republic none the less)
  2. Further exploration of lineage
  3. Companion quests where we travel somewhere and leave the ship
  4. More Mods
  5. Full body texture so we can put her in the dancer outfit

 

Please add to this if you don't want to push her out the airlock. :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was playing my Jug last night with LS Jaesa by my side and she REALLY got on my nerves. Every conversation option to boast of my power or put down the Republic, even slightly, and I get the disapproving -2 affection or worse. There was actually one quest I took last night that Jaesa gave negative affection for even accepting it, no matter which of the acceptance options I took (kill them all or I'm better then anything they've got) so I used my punish on her. :eek:

At least it was your choice to have a LS Jaesa. DS Jaesa can't get more bloodthirsty. And doing the Jaesa/Ashara comparison thing:

 

Jaesa is devoted to purity, whether light or dark. Ashara has a fierce devotion to the light side, and a hatred for the dark side, but being young and inexperienced, she doesn't see how methods corrupt, as well intent. Jaesa never had such a devotion towards either the Light Side or the Jedi Order, because, due to her special ability, she's seen what she thinks is a disgusting amount of ocrruption in both the Republic and the Jedi Order, hence how easy she was to turn.

 

 

For all the flaws in her story; the disappointing lead up, the lack of turning or reasons for her joining, etc., at least Ashara let's my SI be powerful and express it. She also has very little love for the Republic, which works for me.

She doesn't care much for the Republic, no, but it doesn't mean she hates it, either. She doesn't see boasting as a bad thing. She is confident in her own abilities, to the point of being overconfident, at times, and likes confidence in others.

 

In one of the holocrons you find on Taris, she complains when her master tells her to relent when pushing another padawan too hard. She sees this as inaction and weakness.

 

 

Companion quests where we travel somewhere and leave the ship

Each class only gets one companion each that have missions requiring more than just talking to them. So if we get some for Ashara, it's only fair other companions get the same treatment.

 

Full body texture so we can put her in the dancer outfit

It is kind of strange that Togruta don't get full body texture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Ashara qualifies as 'grey' quite strongly. You sometimes hear her combining the Sith and Jedi codes as she tries to find a kind of middle road to walk: "Peace, passion... Knowledge, victory... Freedom, the Force..."

 

I agree that her story is still undeveloped, but she really is one of those unfortunates who, while not buying into the whole Sith philosophy, also is too passionate to really be able to follow the Jedi code.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At least it was your choice to have a LS Jaesa. DS Jaesa can't get more bloodthirsty. And doing the Jaesa/Ashara comparison thing:

True. But I wish I'd known what I was getting because neither option is really sitting with me at this point. I've read/seen all the DS Jaesa spoilers and not certain I'd be happier with pure dagnasty evil ready to go all Sharon Stone on me anymore than I'm happy with the flower child pacifist carrying a double bladed light saber talking about the exquisite nature of their pain. My LS SW was honorable and didn't kill people that posed no threat to him. LS Jaesa shows up and now it's a hippy love fest without the love. :confused:

 

Each class only gets one companion each that have missions requiring more than just talking to them. So if we get some for Ashara, it's only fair other companions get the same treatment.

This is a future wishlist, not a things-I-wish-had-been-changed-in-current-game wishlist. It would have been better but would have taken much more time so I understand why only your first companion was expanded upon in this manner. For future expansions I'd like to see ALL companions get some quality time off the ship where we explore various aspects of their past and current lives.

 

 

Ashara would be quite simple considering you already have the ancestral ghost and Temple in-game. Considering that ghost is a Sith it might be a vehicle to facilitate her fall or the temptation she needs to overcome to remain in the light.

 

It is kind of strange that Togruta don't get full body texture.

Right? Maybe it would require a continuation of the tattoo scheme all the way down but even just a shading of the base white would be nicer than the green knit body sock they have now. And this is not just for the dancer/slave outfits. There are some very nice midriff/short-sleeve medium armor outfits in game that are ruined by her current texture.

 

If fleshed out to her full potential, I see Ashara being one of the most satisfying companions in the game, even if her origin story for becoming your companion falls extremely flat.

Edited by Cherokeewill
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...