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I don't know about the rest of the community but I for one would like to see all operations offer a 4 man option, Raiding is fine but it turns the game into a chore having to log in at a specific time multiple times a weak and being dragged through progression. I know it would take some doing but i believe making a 4 man option would make the game more relaxed and enjoyable and it would also open the game up to a lot of people who have not currently played end game content.
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I don't know about the rest of the community but I for one would like to see all operations offer a 4 man option, Raiding is fine but it turns the game into a chore having to log in at a specific time multiple times a weak and being dragged through progression. I know it would take some doing but i believe making a 4 man option would make the game more relaxed and enjoyable and it would also open the game up to a lot of people who have not currently played end game content.

 

Unless two of those four people are tanks, this would only work for EV.

 

Even then you'd have trouble on the pillars.

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Aren't those called Flashpoints for a reason?

 

Except for the fact that flashpoints are built to get you gear ready to start operations. Meaning you miss all end game gear, and yes i know you can smash out section x at every available chance but thats a far cry from the story driven content you get in operations

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Unless two of those four people are tanks, this would only work for EV.

 

Even then you'd have trouble on the pillars.

 

True enough however you could stagger the tank fights having to defeat one then the other, and the same again for the pillars. So there are ways to accomplish this

Edited by Alukardrasp
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How about a Nightmare Mode Flashpoint.....would get about the same effect.

 

Yeah they could bring in hardmode flashpoints to possibly bring enhanced gear to non raiding players however they would still miss out on the end game story content like Soa. Ultimately i feel that if they were to bring in 4 man operations it would better bridge the gap between flashpoints and operations thus allowing more people to get into them and actually know what they are doing having some level of experience from the 4 man version leading into 8 or 16 man

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True enough however you could stagger the tank fights having to defeat one then the other, and the same again for the pillars. So there are ways to accomplish this

 

In most two-boss fights, if you kill one the other enrages - and most of them are designed in such a way that trying to tank both at the same time is fatal. Not to mention, one tank trying to AOE tank two guys is *not* going to keep aggro off the two DPS that are burning them down evenly if you're trying to do that properly.

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I don't know about the rest of the community but I for one would like to see all operations offer a 4 man option, Raiding is fine but it turns the game into a chore having to log in at a specific time multiple times a weak and being dragged through progression. I know it would take some doing but i believe making a 4 man option would make the game more relaxed and enjoyable and it would also open the game up to a lot of people who have not currently played end game content.

What's stopping you?

 

I've undermanned operations several times. It's not a requirement to have a full group to enter one.

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Easy answer. No.

 

Why you ask? Because you are not being forced to participate in operations and if you can't have the patience or ability to find seven other like minded individuals you don't deserve to play the operations until they become so outdated you can four man them without trouble. You can't have four man operations because they are not meant for four people. You don ask heroic 4's to be solo-able do you? Don't you lose story by not doing them either? You don't complain because you have come to expect them to be made for four people instead of one, just as everyone else has come to expect that current operations are for, at the minimum, eight people. Be happy it isn't 20 to 40 man raids of wow.

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Easy answer. No.

 

Why you ask? Because you are not being forced to participate in operations and if you can't have the patience or ability to find seven other like minded individuals you don't deserve to play the operations until they become so outdated you can four man them without trouble. You can't have four man operations because they are not meant for four people. You don ask heroic 4's to be solo-able do you? Don't you lose story by not doing them either? You don't complain because you have come to expect them to be made for four people instead of one, just as everyone else has come to expect that current operations are for, at the minimum, eight people. Be happy it isn't 20 to 40 man raids of wow.

 

Totally agree with Mastirkal,

Also to add, IF and IF there were 4 man ops, people would cry on the forums about the gear not being as good as an 8 or 16 man op, so then BW would be forced to make the same gear drop, and nobody would then run anything but 4 man ops.

I wish people would really stop trying to have the game changed to suit their needs instead of adapting to the game.

This isn't a kids sport where everyone gets a trophy and nobody keeps score... this is a game where gear is EARNED not handed out because you can't do an 8 man op.

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Except for the fact that flashpoints are built to get you gear ready to start operations. Meaning you miss all end game gear, and yes i know you can smash out section x at every available chance but thats a far cry from the story driven content you get in operations

 

you don't need end gear if you don't end game, ergo, you don't need 4 man ops which will provide end game gear.

 

on that note, I fully support nightmare flashpoints. (I bet my sweet petunias, they will add them in next expansion when we get to level 61 or something)

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No... You have to be lucky to win the roll if the boss drops the thing you can actually use or need.

 

The boss's drop tokened pieces. It will always be something you need. Odds are you are not pugging end game content. You would be in a raiding guild. So, you are subject to the guilds loot guidelines.........

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  • 10 months later...
Aren't those called Flashpoints for a reason?

 

other unnamed MMOs hold "raids" over a payer, i mean, player's head as a carrot to keep their subscription. You spend enormous amounts of time just getting people together, not just doing the operation. I suppose thats fun for some people, but for the rest of us, we dont have that much time or patience. The real thing that stings is that im paying for all that content, and its quite substantial, and we are not even glimpsing it, much less enjoying it.

 

A four person, easy flashpoint mode would at least let us see the great work that has been done, enjoy it, and even help get us ready for doing the more difficult modes instead of reading about them online. I dont think anyone is suggesting that you get the same commendations or loot, just the opportunity to play the whole game that we are paying for, but dont have the time or patience to see with 8 or 16 people.... who usually quit because its so hard anyway....

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How about a Nightmare Mode Flashpoint.....would get about the same effect.

 

That sounds like a good idea to me. Gearing up in flashpoints, and then doing 4 man operations. The operation would be a four person nightmare mode flashpoint. For myself, its not just the time it takes to complete a hard operation, its getting so many people together and coordinating their every move that takes more time than I have at any one login sitting.

Edited by daDren
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Easy answer. No.

 

Why you ask? Because you are not being forced to participate in operations and if you can't have the patience or ability to find seven other like minded individuals you don't deserve to play the operations until they become so outdated you can four man them without trouble. You can't have four man operations because they are not meant for four people. You don ask heroic 4's to be solo-able do you? Don't you lose story by not doing them either? You don't complain because you have come to expect them to be made for four people instead of one, just as everyone else has come to expect that current operations are for, at the minimum, eight people. Be happy it isn't 20 to 40 man raids of wow.

 

What are you, ten years old? I dont deserve to play the game im paying for??? ABILITY??? LOLOLOL!!! No one is suggesting anyone takes away your precious "achievements" for rounding up 8 or more people and having ALOT more of spare time on your hands *cough loser* than 'normal' people, they are suggesting the game have a version EVERYONE can play, not just "elites" with lots of time and dont mind wasting it, along with their money.

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Totally agree with Mastirkal,

Also to add, IF and IF there were 4 man ops, people would cry on the forums about the gear not being as good as an 8 or 16 man op, so then BW would be forced to make the same gear drop, and nobody would then run anything but 4 man ops.

I wish people would really stop trying to have the game changed to suit their needs instead of adapting to the game.

This isn't a kids sport where everyone gets a trophy and nobody keeps score... this is a game where gear is EARNED not handed out because you can't do an 8 man op.

 

Easy work-around, have less powerful gear dropped, and less important commendations earned. People just want to experience the whole game with the time and money they have. They are already paying for it to be developed, other than ego, I dont know why other players are showing so much resistance to the idea. If anything, it will make other players better at the operations for you, because they played a scaled down version already. Better than just reading about it online to get ready for 8 or 16 man.

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you don't need end gear if you don't end game, ergo, you don't need 4 man ops which will provide end game gear.

 

on that note, I fully support nightmare flashpoints. (I bet my sweet petunias, they will add them in next expansion when we get to level 61 or something)

 

Honestly, I think payers just get a little chubby that they can exclude other players from operations and raids. They show off their armor in the most public places and ask you what your gear score is before they even answer you. I call it association/imitation instinct, and its for animals with no conscious will to speak of. They want to carve out a little group of people from the bigger group that they can be like and associate with, and feel special which is even more pleasurable than playing the actual game to them. If it wasnt operations or raids it would be something else, its not the game or content for them, thats just a symbol for them to project their instinct onto.

 

HOWEVER. This of course spoils the game for normal customers. Whom are much more plentiful for the business to cater to than the 'elites'. Let them play their little egos crazy, but let the people paying for the larger brunt of the game to even exist play the whole game content they are paying for with the time they have.

Edited by daDren
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4-man operations already exist in this game, it's just disguised as 8-man content.

 

Eternity Vault (HM)

Karagga's Palace (HM)

Terror From Beyond (SM)

Scum & Villainy (SM)

Dread Fortress (SM) [need a fifth just to click the crystal before Draxxus' puzzle]

 

Are all content that I've personally cleared with a 4-man group; it does require some innovative tactics & exceptionally skilled players to short-man some of the mechanics, but quite doable. Don't think that you need the standard 2 tanks / 2 healers / 4 dps in order to clear every fight.

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i'd like to see 4 men ops if i'd be the case of a heavy mechanics instance..which is not going to happend watching what happened to LI in these years.

 

said this..MMO means mass and means that to enjoy all the content you have to be social..

 

just look at chat to spot those LFM dps tank etc in general and join those groups when you see they are almost set..

it's false that all the pugs are tacts requiring or unfair to newbies.

 

most of the times it takes moreless half an hour to fill 16 spots if there's enough ppl online and if most of players don't have lockouts in the most popular ops. if you sit on the fleet you'll see a lot of lazy/shy players looking for group..i've been joked for posting LF15M but that's quite an easy way to pug an op if you know what you are doing, which can be learnt.

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other unnamed MMOs hold "raids" over a payer, i mean, player's head as a carrot to keep their subscription. You spend enormous amounts of time just getting people together, not just doing the operation. I suppose thats fun for some people, but for the rest of us, we dont have that much time or patience. The real thing that stings is that im paying for all that content, and its quite substantial, and we are not even glimpsing it, much less enjoying it.

 

A four person, easy flashpoint mode would at least let us see the great work that has been done, enjoy it, and even help get us ready for doing the more difficult modes instead of reading about them online. I dont think anyone is suggesting that you get the same commendations or loot, just the opportunity to play the whole game that we are paying for, but dont have the time or patience to see with 8 or 16 people.... who usually quit because its so hard anyway....

 

You are simply choosing to not do the operations as they exist. Almost anytime I log in I see groups forming for various 16 man SM ops. These are incredibly easy to burn through if even only 1/2-2/3 the group has a clue in under 2 hours. You are claiming that in the course of a week you never sit down for a 2+hour session of the game? I have joined some that breeze through the content with everyone having a good time. Other times, not so much. It happens.

 

If you join a guild it gets even easier. The larger guilds have raid groups at all different times and frequently do an ad-hoc group. A good raid group clears HM DP+HM DP combined in two hours.

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