I've got a terrible headache, so please correct me if I talk utter non-sense, but I'd think taking the 15% crit on DS isn't that bad an idea for Balance, or hybrid specs that involve either Kientic or Balance. For Infil I don't know. A guildie has been running the 50+ force set for Waka-jinn, and I'm inclined to think, that depending how much up time you have, that that bonus set isn't that bad of an idea for infil specs, especially Waka-jinn, but again the effects might be negated by Shadow's respite. Thinking is hard atm, headache! Obviously, testing would have to be done..

I know, it's a rather off-topicy question and I'm sure I'd have figured it out without that terrible headache (ahem, cough, cough), but Xin, what did you mean with the 39% on force attack crits, when you talked about DS crits?

Edit: Forgot to talk about full Kinetics and why I think the PvP set bonus is favorable:

In my opinion in Kinetic you can get a maximum of 2 DS out before you should proceed with your normal rotation, as you'll loose time and too much force. You're not that dependant on the PA proc, and the priority should be to get your TKT going in a timely manner. One could argue though, that the +50 force set might also be worth getting for full Kinetics as you'd be able to fish for the PA proc a bit more, but you can't put in the pressure you need when you just keep on DSing for the proc.

Thanks!

I know, it's a rather off-topicy question and I'm sure I'd have figured it out without that terrible headache (ahem, cough, cough), but Xin, what did you mean with the 39% on force attack crits, when you talked about DS crits?

i believe she is assuming you're at 30% crit from gear and buffs then force synergy procs and you get +9% melee crit

force synergy talent (1st row balance tree)

critical hits increase melee critical chance by 9% for 10 seconds.

Can we get some more people to chime in on the recklessness bonus vs the 15% crit chance vs the +50 force.

I personally would never take the +50 force over either of the Stalker bonuses. Since our force regen is linear, +50 force only helps with the opener, and for Infil builds, Shadow's Respite more than covers that, and I never have real force issues with Balance builds, as their setup is not very force heavy. KC hybrids could benefit from it, but I still think either Stalker bonus would be far better.

I personally would never take the +50 force over either of the Stalker bonuses. Since our force regen is linear, +50 force only helps with the opener, and for Infil builds, Shadow's Respite more than covers that, and I never have real force issues with Balance builds, as their setup is not very force heavy. KC hybrids could benefit from it, but I still think either Stalker bonus would be far better.

yeah i dont really see the +50 force being any help either. Its the +15 crit to ds/cs which is interesting.

Does everybody realize you need 4 additional non-set bonus armorings to actually test either tionese set? i.e from bracers/belt or offhand??? its a crapload of work to get all those extra pieces just to run the test. plus 4 more augmented slots for the tionese. I know shin's working up something, but its more of a pain than you think!

yeah i dont really see the +50 force being any help either. Its the +15 crit to ds/cs which is interesting.

 

Does everybody realize you need 4 additional non-set bonus armorings to actually test either tionese set? i.e from bracers/belt or offhand??? its a crapload of work to get all those extra pieces just to run the test. plus 4 more augmented slots for the tionese. I know shin's working up something, but its more of a pain than you think!

Yeah, this'll take a while to be honest

Yeah, this'll take a while to be honest

I ended up paying a couple mil to throw some 63 pve armorings in a couple pieces. It sped up the process (I'm impatient) and I kept a respectable amount of expertise (1250ish). Obviously the goal is to replace those with pvp armorings, but the difference isn't much.

I ended up paying a couple mil to throw some 63 pve armorings in a couple pieces. It sped up the process (I'm impatient) and I kept a respectable amount of expertise (1250ish). Obviously the goal is to replace those with pvp armorings, but the difference isn't much.

I'm doing that too with the 52end/72wp armorings. 10 more wzs and I can afford one more EWH armoring to test it out.

I run the +50 force bonus on dps set and I love it. Due to regen its 2-3 extra hard-hitting abilities instead of saber strikes and that's a lot when you need to kill anyone quickly, especially if he's beign healed/guarded in the process. Discovering its full potential takes a bit of practice as a tank hybrid but for deception it fits the playstyle naturally and you get more burst in every opener while stalkers set gives more burst only when FP is up.

Never tried balance in pvp though and it probably won't be a best choice for it, i usually run tank hybrids or 0/27/14.

For tank set I'm using PVE set bonus too (though using it for hutball only), 2% plain DR is pretty awesome in pvp.

I have just recently starting playing the Infiltration/Balance build and I really do love it. I miss pull and my KD but played well it hits hard, really hard. I have seen only a couple other Shadows/Sins using it on the Ebon Hawk and most of them have no idea what they are doing with it.

I usually use this spec occasionally on Ancient Hypergate, offense on Voidstar and sometimes Civil war depending on how many tanks are in the group. Although when it comes to defending in Voidstar and Huttball, you can't beat Kinetic.

Overall though, my personal opinion is that 23/3/14 is the best spec overall. Having 3 points in Shadow Strike really adds to your dps, and will put you over the edge in duels. It makes a huge difference from just having 1 point in it. I only really take instant force lift in Huttball. Just my personal preference.

Sorry if someone else has already asked this.

There's a talent that makes the dots from Dirty Fighting/Lethality apply a weaker version when they are cleansed. Is resilience supposed to cleanse both the main dot and the weaker dot?

The talent it self is called Nice Try/Lingering Toxins.

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2TQM17J/nice-try

Sorry if someone else has already asked this.

 

There's a talent that makes the dots from Dirty Fighting/Lethality apply a weaker version when they are cleansed. Is resilience supposed to cleanse both the main dot and the weaker dot?

 

 

The talent it self is called Nice Try/Lingering Toxins.

http://www.torhead.com/ability/2TQM17J/nice-try

I don't belive it clears the weaker one.

Big points for using a Leopold and His Fiction song!! Not a lot of people even know the band. I saw them 2 years ago and they were great.

Very cool video too. I just came back after a long break and am playing a shadow. Thanks for posting this.

I don't belive it clears the weaker one.

Yeah I was a little confused when she said resilience is bugged, and the weaker dots were just applied.

So I did test out the set and here's my results.

15% on DS is pretty undervalued, but I found myself going for more crit just so I can see DS crit every time. Seemingly, the tionese set works fine for full Balance or Balance-inspired hybrids alike. However, my biggest gripe was actually not the PvP 4pc, it was the missing 2pc.

I severely underestimated just how useful having a +5m on Slow/Interrupt is. It is huge. Especially against roots and deadzoning warriors - something I am not willing to give up. The tionese set, while it does give a sustained overall increase, still felt underwhelming. For infiltration specs, and even the 23/1/17 spec, I still recommend full 4-PC Stalker.

While this set is fun for Balance, the overall effect for all specs will still point to PvP Stalker. Even for Balance moreso. This is more of a *fun* set, than a serious set for me personally. Our Stalker PvP set gives excellent bonuses and when I swapped to the PvE set, I realize just how much I neglected it.

I run the +50 force bonus on dps set and I love it. Due to regen its 2-3 extra hard-hitting abilities instead of saber strikes and that's a lot when you need to kill anyone quickly, especially if he's beign healed/guarded in the process. Discovering its full potential takes a bit of practice as a tank hybrid but for deception it fits the playstyle naturally and you get more burst in every opener while stalkers set gives more burst only when FP is up.

Agreed. I cannot accept using 23/1/17 w/o +50 force.

Running out of power in 3 projects means you will never manage to kill that PT fast enough.

Btw Xin... when do you actually kite stuff?

In my experience, Focus guardians and sentinels just zealous leap and smash you for 5K...

Combat sentinels have 2 roots and a longer slow, making them unkitable unless they are REALLY bad...

You can't lose to Watchmen sentinels unless you are watching TV.

Non-focus guardians are just irritating and unkitable unless they have push on cooldown.

Scoundrels dps are .... exactly what they are... scrap.

Everything else you don't really kite.... except for Shadows... which we all know is not really kitable 1v1.

TBH the only time I use slow... is when they try to kite me!

Btw Xin... when do you actually kite stuff?

Better question is when do I not...

I'm constantly deadzoning for my advantage. It's in the commentary of the video posted in the OP.

Hey Shin! Glad to see you are back! After you took your 1st break from the game I took my break too which was around 1.1-1.2 ish maybe before, I was thinking about coming back so I had a few questions: Is the game any better than it was at the beginning of this year? Is there any major changes to Shadows that I should know? And is Ranked Gear easier to get yet, or do I still have to farm a whole week to get one piece?

The game is, truthfully, in a worse state than it was earlier in the year. The F2P release was not a smartly played move on BW's part and there are even less servers than before. Major changes to Shadow include buffs to infiltration which make it a solid spec to play now. Especially the hybrid, even so as DPS in ranked. Ranked gear is not hard to get, but the question is: Where are the queues?

Can someone tell me what gear is used for the 23/1/17 spec? Are we using DPS gear with a Shield?

23/1/17 can be run in DPS or Tank gear.

In DPS mode, I usually use a focus because my tank stats are a bit low to justify for using a shield. But it's up to you.

In Tank mode, use a shield and keep Kinetic Ward up.

For DPS, I would recommend the PvE Mystic 4PC set (+50 force). But PvE Stalker 4PC (+15% crit to double strike), PvP Stalker 2PC / Survivor 2PC (+5m to slow/interrupt and -5s on spinning kick), or PvP Survivor 4PC (-5s spinning kick & +5% dmg) are all viable.

For Tank, PvP Stalker 2PC / Survivor 2PC (+5m to slow/interrupt and -5s on spinning kick), or PvE Survivor 4PC (+5% shield chance and +2% damage reduction) are recommended. I am lazy so I use the PvP Survivor 4PC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xin, I watched your video like 10 times. Nice video btw, always a pleasure to watch your videos. (I like your old video versus the sentinel where both of you were near death and you force cloaked to get the upper hand. Been doing that ever since against the really good sentinels/marauders. )

But in this video the Sentinel / Operative just stood there with you in range then got CCed to death when you got close..... -,- I can think of too many ways for the sentinel and operative to have immobilized you to get close!

So I did test out the set and here's my results.

 

15% on DS is pretty undervalued, but I found myself going for more crit just so I can see DS crit every time. Seemingly, the tionese set works fine for full Balance or Balance-inspired hybrids alike. However, my biggest gripe was actually not the PvP 4pc, it was the missing 2pc.

 

I severely underestimated just how useful having a +5m on Slow/Interrupt is. It is huge. Especially against roots and deadzoning warriors - something I am not willing to give up. The tionese set, while it does give a sustained overall increase, still felt underwhelming. For infiltration specs, and even the 23/1/17 spec, I still recommend full 4-PC Stalker.

 

While this set is fun for Balance, the overall effect for all specs will still point to PvP Stalker. Even for Balance moreso. This is more of a *fun* set, than a serious set for me personally. Our Stalker PvP set gives excellent bonuses and when I swapped to the PvE set, I realize just how much I neglected it.

I'm not sure I agree that it's more of a fun set, but I'm curious how the +50 force panned out for you. That's one where I think the benefits are difficult to judge on paper.

23/1/17 can be run in DPS or Tank gear.

In DPS mode, I usually use a focus because my tank stats are a bit low to justify for using a shield. But it's up to you.

In Tank mode, use a shield and keep Kinetic Ward up.

 

For DPS, I would recommend the PvE Mystic 4PC set (+50 force). But PvE Stalker 4PC (+15% crit to double strike), PvP Stalker 2PC / Survivor 2PC (+5m to slow/interrupt and -5s on spinning kick), or PvP Survivor 4PC (-5s spinning kick & +5% dmg) are all viable.

 

For Tank, PvP Stalker 2PC / Survivor 2PC (+5m to slow/interrupt and -5s on spinning kick), or PvE Survivor 4PC (+5% shield chance and +2% damage reduction) are recommended. I am lazy so I use the PvP Survivor 4PC.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xin, I watched your video like 10 times. Nice video btw, always a pleasure to watch your videos. (I like your old video versus the sentinel where both of you were near death and you force cloaked to get the upper hand. Been doing that ever since against the really good sentinels/marauders. )

But in this video the Sentinel / Operative just stood there with you in range then got CCed to death when you got close..... -,- I can think of too many ways for the sentinel and operative to have immobilized you to get close!

Could you elaborate on why the mystic bonus? As others have said it does give more burst, but like the vigor talent doesn't affect your regen and therefore doesn't add up to much.

Could you elaborate on why the mystic bonus? As others have said it does give more burst, but like the vigor talent doesn't affect your regen and therefore doesn't add up to much.

Sure!

With 23/1/17,

Project + 2xPsychokenesis = 45 - 6 = 39 Force

Double Strike 2xPsychokenesis = 25 - 2 = 23 Force

Standard rotation: Double Strike > Double Strike > Project in 4.5s (3x GCD)

~8,300 damage (1200x2 + 1200x2 + 3500)

40 Force used over duration [85 Force used (23x2 + 39) - 45 Force regened (10 x 4.5)]

Therefore, 8300dmg per 40 Force.

EWH/WH fully augmented min-maxed you stand around 20,000 hp.

With the above, you reach 21,400 dmg in 12s for 100 Force but 10.5s for 150 Force.

If you are lucky and get procs after each Double Strike,

you can reach 20100 dmg in 9s with 150 Force, but would require 11s for 100 Force.

(1) i.e. you pull in 1 GCD ahead.

In the lucky case, at the 15s mark, you reach 28400 dmg with 150 Force, but 23600 dmg with 100 Force.

In actual combat, you are surely not going to crit all your Double Strikes, not going to proc Particle Acceleration every time, and the enemy is certainly going to dodge / parry / absorb / mitigate your attacks.

(2) i.e., you need that extra attack to complete the kill.

That is the difference.

I can assume this will all change once the health cap goes higher with the oncoming expansion.