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Why was it decided that everything endgame being a dps race was a good idea?


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Who thought enrage timers were a good idea? Really isn't very fun when a group of 2 dps a healer and a tank still hit these dumb enrage timers on black talon when everyone has the best pve gear possible at the time and some champion pvp gear.

 

Don't see how this system is fun, I struggle to push everything out as fast as possible with so many skills to manage and still can't dps things fast enough for these. It's become not fun, and when a game isn't fun anymore it's not really a game. Didn't have this much trouble with endgame stuff in lotro. :(

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Trying not to sound elitist or like a douchebag now..

 

Should check your rotation\priority list again if you're hitting enrage timers in black talon.

 

First time I did that the entire group was in blues with 46-48 mods, cant remember hitting any enrage other than the bonus boss, but now that we've got lv. 50 mods things just dies too fast.

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I'm going to have to agree with you, in a game where the dev's don't want dps meters and everyone can pull a dps without having to be pig holed sudden classes into groups who can do more damage then others (guardians/jugs)

 

Enrage timers was added by "blizzard for their raiding doing the BC xpac" when rift took that idea, it drove many people away and now look what we have here.. more enrage timers cause it requires you're group to have a sudden class make up. pff. Another reason why this game may die out in 2 months

Edited by Konraxhatred
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I'm going to have to agree with you, in a game where the dev's don't want dps meters and everyone can pull a dps line without having to be pig holed groups into sudden classes who can do more damage then others (guardians/jugs)

 

Enrage timers was added by "blizzard for their raiding doing the BC xpac" when rift took that idea, it drove many people away and now look what we have here.. more enrage timers cause it requires you're group to have a sudden class make up. pff. Another reason why this game may die out in 2 months

 

agreed sad, i like taking w/e group and taking it easy, supposed to be a game. make it hard but not a dps race

Edited by DragoVaughn
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The way most class mechanics work in this game, there has to be some form of time restraint. If not, I could take a tank and 3 healers into any fight, rotate heals and win. There would be no challenge. We would never run out of our resource, as they constantly build in combat. The easiest way to make content challenging is enrage timers. Your tank has to be geared enough to hold aggro and take hits. Your healer must be geared enough to heal the tank. Why shouldn't your DPS have to be geared enough to do damage?
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The way most class mechanics work in this game, there has to be some form of time restraint. If not, I could take a tank and 3 healers into any fight, rotate heals and win. There would be no challenge. We would never run out of our resource, as they constantly build in combat. The easiest way to make content challenging is enrage timers. Your tank has to be geared enough to hold aggro and take hits. Your healer must be geared enough to heal the tank. Why shouldn't your DPS have to be geared enough to do damage?

 

fact of the matter is, we were geared, maybe it's just once you hit 50 going to hardmode flashpoints to get more gear is too much of a gap with those stupid timers

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The way most class mechanics work in this game, there has to be some form of time restraint. If not, I could take a tank and 3 healers into any fight, rotate heals and win. There would be no challenge. We would never run out of our resource, as they constantly build in combat. The easiest way to make content challenging is enrage timers. Your tank has to be geared enough to hold aggro and take hits. Your healer must be geared enough to heal the tank. Why shouldn't your DPS have to be geared enough to do damage?

 

This. Enrage timers are there to make sure that dps have a purpose at all. In end game, you'll find that as encounters get harder, people bring more healers and less damage dealers, because they'd rather win the fight guaranteed, even if it takes longer, rather than try to form a real strategy.

 

You take away enrage timers, people will bring nothing but healers and tanks to every instance and never have a challenge the rest of the time they play.

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This. Enrage timers are there to make sure that dps have a purpose at all. In end game, you'll find that as encounters get harder, people bring more healers and less damage dealers, because they'd rather win the fight guaranteed, even if it takes longer, rather than try to form a real strategy.

 

You take away enrage timers, people will bring nothing but healers and tanks to every instance and never have a challenge the rest of the time they play.

 

ok, you don't see the point, when it's a four person group for a flashpoint and two are dps with the best gear possible to get at 50 right when you could hit 50 (ie correllia gear), yet we're doing the best we can and still hit enrage timers on the first hard flashpoint you're to do to get gear, then something is wrong.

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Im sure we will see some buffs/nerfs to classes as time goes on. The game has only been out for a week, give them time to collect some more data as people hit 50 and balance will happen. End game should be a DPS race, other wise as people have pointed out you just heal/tank everything. I know some classes are worse then others atm, but have faith that bioware will make changes.
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Wait..

 

 

This game has Enrage timers? Are you freaking serious? What moron came up with that idea and thought it was a great concept to bring it here?

 

All this is going to do is create the elitism we are trying to avoid. At this rate, you might as well make DPS meters. Because without them we are going to hit the hard wall of Enrage timers.

 

And I HATE DPS meters.

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Im sure we will see some buffs/nerfs to classes as time goes on. The game has only been out for a week, give them time to collect some more data as people hit 50 and balance will happen. End game should be a DPS race, other wise as people have pointed out you just heal/tank everything. I know some classes are worse then others atm, but have faith that bioware will make changes.

 

Well at this point, I would much rather prefer they hard cap that you can only have so many healers/tanks in a group than make is a race till you insta die, it just really isn't fun, and this is coming from a dps class.

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Wait..

 

 

This game has Enrage timers? Are you freaking serious? What moron came up with that idea and thought it was a great concept to bring it here?

 

All this is going to do is create the elitism we are trying to avoid. At this rate, you might as well make DPS meters. Because without them we are going to hit the hard wall of Enrage timers.

 

And I HATE DPS meters.

 

So... just so I can get this straight, you like long boring encounters? As it stands, if there isn't a time limit on fights, you can defeat them with a simple healing rotation. The only way to make a challenging fight when there's no time limit is to go the other direction and make the fight so long that the challenge becomes about whether you can stay awake for it, but at no point is there any risk of failure.

 

You can have all the cool moves in the world for your boss, but if you have enough healers and tanks, it doesn't matter if they do it "right" or how you intended, they'll just let the bodies pile up until the mob is dead. Take a look at other MMO raid bosses. You'll find that for ones without enrage timers, DPS classes are optional at best, and considered a waste of space at worst. We all know what happens to classes with no purpose. No one plays them.

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So... just so I can get this straight, you like long boring encounters? As it stands, if there isn't a time limit on fights, you can defeat them with a simple healing rotation. The only way to make a challenging fight when there's no time limit is to go the other direction and make the fight so long that the challenge becomes about whether you can stay awake for it, but at no point is there any risk of failure.

 

You can have all the cool moves in the world for your boss, but if you have enough healers and tanks, it doesn't matter if they do it "right" or how you intended, they'll just let the bodies pile up until the mob is dead. Take a look at other MMO raid bosses. You'll find that for ones without enrage timers, DPS classes are optional at best, and considered a waste of space at worst. We all know what happens to classes with no purpose. No one plays them.

 

So give a piece of bonus loot for beating it in a certain time, or lock out that you can only have so many healers. There are MANY game design choices around stupid enrage timers.

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Facts:

 

Enrage timers are only viable when DPS can be thoroughly and accurately tested via parsing. Otherwise, stat weights and rotations are objective and worthless.

 

Soft enrage timers are fun, raid wipes when you hit a specific time are not. Rift's first two raids had great examples of soft enrages during encounters like Infiltrator Johlen and Warmaster Galenir.

 

SWTOR does not allow parsing, and their enrage timers are unimaginative and altogether boring. Therefore, they should remove or vastly extend enrage timers, and instead learn from this amazingly bad design flaw and move forward. They already disappointed many fans by failing to deliver on dynamic raid content which got away from the "beat up on a fat boss and dodge fire" like they said in early interviews.

 

SWTOR raiding turned out to be nothing new or exciting, just another PvE game, but now with lightsabers and blasters. Lots of blasters. A *********** ton of them. Fortunately, PvP is stale and uninspiring and no RvR system has been mentioned. Loving the storyline Bioware, but your endgame better be packed tight in a box somewhere in that office, waiting to be released when the population at large hits 50.

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They obviously just slapped enrage mechanics on these bosses because their mechanics are lousy and they can be easily bugged with line of sight. The clearest example of this is the last fight in Boarding Party. The adds there are incredibly easy to LOS, so instead of fixing the mechanics, Bioware just threw an enrage mechanic on it. Edited by Lord_Itharius
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So you admitted in your post that you aren't performing well.

 

Why should bosses die for you again?

 

Umm because Bioware hasn't added a frikin combat log or interface mods, so we can't tell how much dps we're doing? It's possible that some ACs have too low dps to even beat the enrage timers, even when played right, like vengeance juggs, for instance. We just don't know, and we can't know without damage meters. So either they need to add combat parsing, or they need to get rid of enrage mechanics.

 

There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.

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There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.

 

I think a better analogy is trying to pass a class without writing utensils. Theoretically possible but really making it harder on yourself for no reason.

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Umm because Bioware hasn't added a frikin combat log or interface mods, so we can't tell how much dps we're doing? It's possible that some ACs have too low dps to even beat the enrage timers, even when played right, like vengeance juggs, for instance. We just don't know, and we can't know without damage meters. So either they need to add combat parsing, or they need to get rid of enrage mechanics.

 

There is no way to improve dps when you can't see whether you're improving. It's like a teacher trying to grade a class with no tests or assignments.

 

the thing is, even when bosses enrage they are still killable. we get enrages every time we fight a boss. every. time. but we still kill it, its not hard at all. stop crying that the game is too hard and step up your game.

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the thing is, even when bosses enrage they are still killable. we get enrages every time we fight a boss. every. time. but we still kill it, its not hard at all. stop crying that the game is too hard and step up your game.

 

The game isn't too hard. It's cryptic.

 

Cryptic (adj): mysterious in meaning; puzzling; ambiguous

 

The game wouldn't be cryptic if we could see combat logs detailing how much damage we're doing and what killed us. Then tank and spank wouldn't be "hard" again for the first time in 6 years.

 

Go play WoW hard modes again before you cry panda land and you'll see how dps meters cause mechanics to actually require more movement and raid awareness, making the game more fun. Granted, in WoW by the end of Cataclysm, those mechanics amount to pressing a button to avoid raid damage, but it's still better than tank and spank with random enrage mechanics and no way to fix the problem except by replacing BOTH dps.

Edited by Lord_Itharius
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