Cept assassins can self heal and a Juggernaut as far as I know can't.

Thats like trying to argue that a Sorcerer is a good tank because they can self-heal. Damage reduction determines effective health and survivability. Juggs have the highest on both AND currently scale the best with gear. Assassins rng self-heal does not scale and their long cd 10% is proc based AND provides no DR.

You're concerned about Juggs power level, so you're rolling Operative? /facepalm.

 

Assassins ARE NOT AOE TANKS. The misconceptions here are mind blowing. A Tankasin has 8 charges of Dark Ward every 12s which are consumed on being hit, That means if we AoE tank, we get railed. Ward gets consumed, and then we get gibbed. You cannot directly compare raw stats, the base mitigation of Tankasins is lower, and they do not have the same CDs that Juggs have.

QFT. We have 3 guild tanks - vanguard, guardian and shadow (all columi geared) and the shadow keeps complaining about this all the time. And as a healer, I definitely observe this. The shadow tank is harder to keep alive with multiple mobs. But his dps is around 10-15% better compared to the guardian tank.

If this game had a combat log, the OP's assertion on the best tank can be proven wrong quite quickly.

I am actually horrified by these kinds of post because it shows that people with mediocre understanding of their own class and absolutely little understanding of others can somehow get their hands on Rakata gear.

First of all like a few posters above me had mentioned, needing Accuracy for Rage/Focus generation is just pure wrong. In case OP hasn't noticed, which he should if he is what he claims, then he/she will noticed that the resource will be generated REGARDLESS if the skill actually produces damage. The only thing getting Accuracy as a tank is to GUARANTEE aggro generation for every GCD spent.

Shadows and Vanguards don't have resource problems? Clearly, the OP has no idea how resource works for those classes. Vanguards are far from the AOE tanks people make them out to be. IF a Vanguard actually does all their lolAOE moves, they will be out of ammo in 3-4 GCD and will be stuck doing Hammer Shot while the healer gets chewed to bits from healing aggro.

Shadows like Vanguards also needs to manage their Force carefully. Unlike Vanguards who have diminishing return on their ammo regen, the base rate of Force regeneration for Sith Inquisitors/Jedi Consulars is 8/s. So with One the Force talent, that is 10.4 force per sec or 15.6 per GCD. So if they start wantonly throwing out Slow Time, Force in Balance, Force Breach, Whirling Blow; that force bar will be empty in 4 secs flat.

Many people think "ZOMG VG/SHAD are so much better! Look at X, Y<Z!!!111shift+1" fail to understand that just because those classes have those abilities doesn't means they CAN use those abilities due to resource/CD constrain.

I am actually horrified by these kinds of post because it shows that people with mediocre understanding of their own class and absolutely little understanding of others can somehow get their hands on Rakata gear.

i have rakata gear and i have trouble holding agro on single targets. i wipe us all the time. me and my buddys are total noobs and we have full rakata lol this isnt rocket science

Cept assassins can self heal and a Juggernaut as far as I know can't.

Except that Juggernauts do get an absorb shield that never overheals, unlike the large majority of assassin self-healing.

It's not quite that. It's more the fact that playing a juggernaut tank in endgame doesn't seem viable. I'm in the progress of rerolling to an operative healer cause of these imbalances.

Now this is funny...if you thing Jug tank isn't viable you are going to love that Op healer.

For those saying that accuracy is needed to help maintain focus/rage have you forgotten that a Jugg ACTUALLY spec'd immortal gains that simply by being attacked? I really don't think the rage generation is the issue for them. I'd love it if they had an additional AOE taunt, but they don't really need it. As has been mentioned above, agro doesn't work the same way in TOR than it does in games like LOTRO or WoW. Assin tanks may have more ways to taunt or gain area aggro, but their survivability is NOT the same as was also mentioned above.

wow you are a noob arent you?

1 rage every 3 gcd will make us wait 12 sec to fire off one spell unless we get hit alor of times every sec then we can fire 2 spell of every 12 sec one AoE and one 10m range yea that help us soooooooo *********** much that we dont need anything else eh? why dont you get you facts right before you write **** like this again?

wow you are a noob arent you?

I kind of have to mirror this sentiment, only directed at the people that act as if Guards and Juggs *require* gobs of accuracy to generate resources effectively.

First off, Sundering Strike is a special attack, not a basic attack. As such, it uses the default 100% accuracy for special attacks, not the 90% for basic attacks. Because of this, you only need, at most, 6-8% accuracy to never miss (less if you take the acc talent).

Secondly, Guard/Juggs do not have simply a single method of Focus/Rage generation, nor do they go through Focus/Rage especially quickly. Guard/Juggs have the ability to passively generate 1 Focus/Rage every 2 GCDs (3 secs is 2 GCDs, not 3). They also get Combat Focus/Enrage and Force Stasis/Force Choke every minute for 6 and 3 resource, respectively. They get Saber Throw and Force Leap/Force Charge. They get Courage/Revenge for a free use of either their big AoE or big ST attack every 12 seconds. They reduce the recharge time on Combat Focus/Enrage by 3 seconds whenever they use their resource dump. That's *more* than enough to generate focus outside of Sundering Slash/Sundering Assault.

If you're having problems generating resources, you're simply not using the plenteous resources at your disposal and if you're suffering from having "worse" tank stats compared to the other tanks, it's because you're not switching out the utterly terrible enhancements in our gear that overload us with Accuracy (which, as I've said before, is largely useless, especially in the amounts provided) and, strangely, in the case of the War Leader set, Surge rating, which means more threat and less mitigation.

Adding my 2 cents about assassins :

Assassin heals almost never overheal since you won't ever have 100% health during boss encounters except when it doesn't matter anyway ( say stun prove on Jarg and Sorno ).

About our hard DR, the base stat is lower but we get a 5% dmg reduction debuff which can be maintained throughout the entire fight on a boss ( costs 30% resource every 15s ) effectively increasing our hard DR by 5% and bringing it closer to the other tanks.

Also, light armor can tank since every armor point gets buffed by 170% in our tank stance and spec.

Also, as long as every tank class in full tank spec and appropriate gear can tank everything there's nothing to complain about.

wow you are a noob arent you?

 

1 rage every 3 gcd will make us wait 12 sec to fire off one spell unless we get hit alor of times every sec then we can fire 2 spell of every 12 sec one AoE and one 10m range yea that help us soooooooo *********** much that we dont need anything else eh? why dont you get you facts right before you write **** like this again?

Do you play a jugg?

Yes, you would have to wait 12 seconds, IF YOU WEREN'T DOING ANYTHING ELSE. As has been mentioned before in other posts some of our best rage generating skills are special attacks meaning their accuracy is 100%, so again, accuracy doesn't matter. I'm kind of surprised by the vehemence of your reply because nothing I said was wrong and everything you said says it's right so where are you going with this? By the way, you can increase the amount generated by adding points in the skill tree to generate more rage in addition to reducing the rage cost of your force attacks.

One of the main logic trains in this thread was Juggs need accuracy to be viable because without it they can't produce enough rage to keep agro. I stated that is untrue because we only have what, one, maybe 2 basic attacks that aren't special attacks that would benefit from accuracy. The additional rage from our basic attack is negligible BECAUSE we gain rage when attacked. Try and think before speaking.

Regarding the cooldown disparity between juggs and PTs, I wrote this thread in the Powertech forums today

Jugg vs PT: The Fundamental Difference