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Bioware's Plans for Operatives


Yagabage

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I recently started playing SWTOR again and was really excited to play a concealment operative. Now everyone is telling me that they are a useless class PVE wise which is a shame because I really like to both PVE and PVP. Anyone know if Bioware plans to buff operative dps? If it is as low as eveyrone is saying they have to do something...right? :(
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I recently started playing SWTOR again and was really excited to play a concealment operative. Now everyone is telling me that they are a useless class PVE wise which is a shame because I really like to both PVE and PVP. Anyone know if Bioware plans to buff operative dps? If it is as low as eveyrone is saying they have to do something...right? :(

 

Operative is far from useless. You will do very well as an operative healer in both PvP and PvE. And if you dont mind being as slightly gimped version DPS compare to premium DPS ACs like marauders and such you can also do fine as DPS. You just cant go derpaderpa and expect to be successful like smashmonkeys or pyro PT.

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I don't mind slightly underpowered but the way I heard it, it seemed like there's no reason to go dps on an operative.

 

I have always healed on my operative, but the other day i respeced into lethality to mess around on a dummy, and was able to do about 1500-1600 dps being camp/dg geared (my gear was optimized for heals btw). I figure if i was to optimize my gear and learn the rotation (which is tricky and sorta messy), i would be able to break 1700... In a operation though where i wouldnt have the greatest uptime (mainly due to the lack of being able to gain a TA from >4m range) i would be rather lower majority of the time, but still high enough to get things done.

 

I also have a lethality sniper and a annihilation speced marauder though, who can break 2k dps on a dummy with a bit more ease then playing the lethality operative. Hell i have an arsenal merc (yea i know i have to many alts) who can break 1800-1950 dps, with an extreme amount of ease.

 

The thing is that operative dps isnt viable, it is that other classes do it better, and are easier to play (easier a class is to play, more likely you will see people play it well; harder a class is to play, more likely you will see people fail; if you see 90% of OP dps fail rather hard, you will start to think OP dps is crap.), so there is no incentive to play one.

 

I think if they added a few QoL (Quality of Life) changes to the spec things would be better. The two biggest things i would like to see is, overload shot granting tactical advantage (they could make it share a cooldown with shiv even to balance things out if need be), and make it where hidden strike can be used when you're not in stealth but for a reduced amount of damage, or add a special effect (ex. armour penetration, energy regen, damage boost) when it been used from stealth.

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I don't mind slightly underpowered but the way I heard it, it seemed like there's no reason to go dps on an operative.

 

It's not that there's no reason to play DPS operative, its mainly due to other classes can do it better, and easier as well. If you cant even outdps marauder on a dummy (equal gear and skilled you will never ever touch marauders dps btw) the difference will be even greater in operations. Reason is simple your uptime will be lower, and you are a melee dps without a real gap closer on super short cooldown like force charge, and depending on mechanics where you cant connect your TA can expire and drop off because its only up for such a short time.

 

Similarly to arsenal merc, they have 30m effective range, extremely easy rotation, and naturally higher dps than you do as a dps operative. (yes even if you execute a perfect rotation AND assuming you would have 100% uptime).

 

In short, in PvE, ALL CLASSES (unless the player is stupid and fail) can easily out DPS you. In PvP, other than healing (which you said you want to DPS) Assassins can do everything you do but better,

 

Sins provide great group utilities, one of the best 1v1 classes as well, can taunt and AoE taunt, have much more survivability than you ever will, with some setup they also out burst you, they have real gap closer on short CD like force speed so they are even more mobile than you do, and every minute they can extend their force lightning (one of their most damaging attacks) to 30m up to 3 shots, if they take madness they have a hard hitting 30m aoe they can use as well on a very short CD. They also have passive self heal in 2 of their trees which happens "automatically" (no lolcasting) while they are DPSing, lastly you got no force shroud nuff said.

 

Oh and some noob sins will tell you you can heal as DPS operative (as an attempt to justify their prowess over operatives), which is true, but your heals are extremely laughable without "enough" points in medicine tree.

 

My advise to you is play whatever you like and dont listen to what others have to say. If you get kicked by the Ops leader just get use to it, life on an operative DPS is rough, theres a reason why they are the absolutely least desired DPS AC in the entire game PvP and PvE (at least merc/commando excel in PvE dps).

Edited by warultima
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Hi there,

current status of DPS ops from my personal statistics (have thread on it in IA forum):

out of the 63 WZs played

Lethality = 0

Concealment = 6

Medics = 37

 

I will not comment on this here - i do on other thread, numbers speaks for itself. Only words coming to my mind is R.I.P..our beloved DPS ...

Edited by tatatan
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one thing to watch in operations, and even in pvp, its almost as if operatives forget they have ranged attacks.

 

They'll get tossed back, or the mob will run away, and they will chase it spamming backstab until the get close enough. Having lost plenty of time for multiple rifle shots, and probably an overload shot.

 

NEVER sneeze at overload shot or rifle shot.

 

Energy Low and you need 1 second to let it tick up? Rifle shot.

Crap My Collateral Strike didnt proc a return on my TA? : Overload Shot

Same as above but im kinda low on energy as well? Double rifle shot.

 

A ton of the parses / complaining I have seen people hardly ever use rifle shot. SOME forget to keep poison dart up at all times and lose TA procs from collateral.

 

Do the above, remember your rifle shots, your overload shots, and your corrosive dart, and I promise you you'll do enough DPS for people to be satisfied.

 

That being said, you wont be top dps, but all these nerfs keep hitting us like trucks. That backstab nerf murdered us. Honestly if you love the operative for the playstyle and not the story / RP factor of being an imperial agent, play a dcepetion assassin. They now have everything we had, really, and WAY more survivability now. They're burst monsters with 55% damage resistance.

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MMO players are nothing if not melodramatic.

 

^ True.

 

You like playing operatives and you know how to min/max your stats and play it well, you'll be fine. The problem comes down to a pug group asking what classes they want, and if you look at utility, dps operatives just don't have anything that makes you feel like you NEED them . But they aren't the only class that has that complaint. They've got a bad rap because they ttend to parse a bit below others of equal gearing, and that causes people to get overly dramatic about it and declare they're "useless" and "garbage". People like being chart toppers.

 

As for future plans, we know we're getting new abilities, most likely with the level cap, so hopefully they're hard at work getting some real pve balance for operatives (I can dream?) :D

Edited by chuixupu
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^ True.

 

You like playing operatives and you know how to min/max your stats and play it well, you'll be fine. The problem comes down to a pug group asking what classes they want, and if you look at utility, dps operatives just don't have anything that makes you feel like you NEED them . But they aren't the only class that has that complaint. They've got a bad rap because they ttend to parse a bit below others of equal gearing, and that causes people to get overly dramatic about it and declare they're "useless" and "garbage". People like being chart toppers.

 

As for future plans, we know we're getting new abilities, most likely with the level cap, so hopefully they're hard at work getting some real pve balance for operatives (I can dream?) :D

 

Is why I never wanted dps meters in tor -_-

 

you could kill a boss fine with the same 16 people as you could before, only now its like ZOMG UR DEEPS IS SO LOW U R GONE.

 

Nothing changed, but everything changed. However in operatives case their DPS did get pooped on. The reason we dont have a lot of utility, is because our DPS used to be massive. Before the backstab nerf, acid blade was only down for 2 seconds instead of 6 (its now down the full duration of one of its applications!), And pretty much every ability we have used to hit harder.

 

So they took our damage, gave it + survival abilities to sins, gave us jack crap, and sent us on our merry way.

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Yep. I do understand that it was a bit OP in PVP. All my friends who were doing PVP in the early days were scared silly of Operatives to the point of frustration. But you know what, I think all of them would take those days back before all the changes they did over time.

 

They have a chance to turn things around. I remember how bad feral druids were in WoW in the beginning. and they were really bad, much worse than the state of operatives, but they figured out how to make them awesome.

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Yep. I do understand that it was a bit OP in PVP. All my friends who were doing PVP in the early days were scared silly of Operatives to the point of frustration. But you know what, I think all of them would take those days back before all the changes they did over time.

 

They have a chance to turn things around. I remember how bad feral druids were in WoW in the beginning. and they were really bad, much worse than the state of operatives, but they figured out how to make them awesome.

 

They fixed everything people were crying about in the first round of nerfs. And it needed it badly, Jarring strike knocked people down for 3 seconds, and with hidden strike hitting for 6k, you had plenty of time to kill them before they stood up. Acid Blade was 50% armor penn as well, so they'd literally die on the ground.

 

They nerfed jarring strike to 1.5 (shorter than spike!) then nerfed hidden strike damage 20%, then nerfed acid blade armor pen to 30%.

 

I was like MAN that sucks, but thats okay, we needed it, and we're in line now.

 

Then....more nerfs. Why? I haven't the foggiest.

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Yeah, they really didn't need to increase the backstab cooldown. I think with the Acid Blade nerf they should have increased its duration a bit, or at least increased the dot damage portion.

 

Back Stab should be 6s CD, it makes sense because it is the "ONLY" attack that can apply acid blade while in combat, and acid blade takes 6 seconds to finish ticking.

 

It will help a bit especially in PvE dps.

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Killing people during the KD duration of jarring strike was not a regular and, importantly, reliable occurence in all situations. There were many factors involved including undergeared opponents, simply unprepared PVPers, and well-prepared Operatives. Especially the min/maxers that took every consumeable items and buffs with them. After the use of consumeables during PVP were adjusted, the nerfs really should have stopped and the situation re-evaluated.
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I remember the old quote about ops stunning too much and too high crit dmg which would cause ppl to quit.

 

Now we're nerfed to the ground and there are nothing but idiots smashing all over like its going out of style, and coordinating mez cooldowns to keep entire groups stunned for longer.

 

The irony is too much to bear. Almost as funny as the thought of a concealment operative.

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Killing people during the KD duration of jarring strike was not a regular and, importantly, reliable occurence in all situations. There were many factors involved including undergeared opponents, simply unprepared PVPers, and well-prepared Operatives. Especially the min/maxers that took every consumeable items and buffs with them. After the use of consumeables during PVP were adjusted, the nerfs really should have stopped and the situation re-evaluated.

 

Yep. Once consumables and warzone buff stacking was removed, Operatives were sitting among pretty much everyone else in terms of potency. Could hit hard some of the time, and could hold their own a bit if caught out of stealth. But not even one week into the consumable nerf, Operative DPS took a heavy hit. Really, it might have all been fine if they left Acid Blade alone. Losing 20% to armor pen hurt the worst.

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Operative is far from useless. You will do very well as an operative healer in both PvP and PvE. And if you dont mind being as slightly gimped version DPS compare to premium DPS ACs like marauders and such you can also do fine as DPS. You just cant go derpaderpa and expect to be successful like smashmonkeys or pyro PT.

 

He said concealment learn to read.

 

People like you are the ones giving mis information about this class.

 

Heal spec is overpowered in PVP... and useful in PVE

 

DPS spec is barely playable in PVP, and worthless in PVE. If you aren't a veteran of the DPS spec like me or others I know of.. you will be VERY hard pressed to make it work for you in PVP without asking for advice from one of us.... And don't even think of bringing up 10-49 PVP... that isn't PVP or even remotely close to it.

 

There is a joke among real concealments: "Those who can play concealment played concealment from the start. The rest are Heal spec'd."

Edited by Ahebish
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I remember the old quote about ops stunning too much and too high crit dmg which would cause ppl to quit.

 

Now we're nerfed to the ground and there are nothing but idiots smashing all over like its going out of style, and coordinating mez cooldowns to keep entire groups stunned for longer.

 

The irony is too much to bear. Almost as funny as the thought of a concealment operative.

 

Ya the quote is in my signature

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Killing people during the KD duration of jarring strike was not a regular and, importantly, reliable occurence in all situations. There were many factors involved including undergeared opponents, simply unprepared PVPers, and well-prepared Operatives. Especially the min/maxers that took every consumeable items and buffs with them. After the use of consumeables during PVP were adjusted, the nerfs really should have stopped and the situation re-evaluated.

 

No but daisy chaining bubble stun 4-6 times in a row where each has a 3 second stun that doesn't break on damage and has little to no effect on resolve is perfectly "regular".

 

Go back to the sorc forums. Your nerf is coming soon enough.

Edited by Ahebish
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They fixed everything people were crying about in the first round of nerfs. And it needed it badly, Jarring strike knocked people down for 3 seconds, and with hidden strike hitting for 6k, you had plenty of time to kill them before they stood up. Acid Blade was 50% armor penn as well, so they'd literally die on the ground.

 

They nerfed jarring strike to 1.5 (shorter than spike!) then nerfed hidden strike damage 20%, then nerfed acid blade armor pen to 30%.

 

I was like MAN that sucks, but thats okay, we needed it, and we're in line now.

 

Then....more nerfs. Why? I haven't the foggiest.

 

Listen I was one of the biggest anti-nerf voices on these forums you can go back to month 1-3 posts and read the number of times I got ban'd and warned because of it.

 

That being said I will conceit the initial nerf was justified, and pretty much every nerf up until patch 1.2.

 

Patch 1.2 was the death of the concealments/scrappers. And it's been that way ever since. Those of us who played it from the start have a far easier time adjusting that some of you who didn't have to live through 6 consecutive nerfds in a row.

 

They basically took your level 50 status and made you level 10 and forced us to regrind our gear with each nerf. And it's worse now than it's ever been compared to any other class.

 

I would ask if not a damage increase, then a drastic increase in survivability or utility but not both.

 

Give us an oh **** god mode CD like every other class in the game.

 

or, give us a gap closer to rival assassins/shadows.

Edited by Ahebish
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When most players say useless, they mean not top on the dps meter. (if there was one) and the moment there is one, players will begin to block certain ACs from doing certain roles, like Guardians and Juggernauts, they will be likely forced into just tanking and stuff like that.
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