You are obviously missing my point...

 

Myself and many DO NOT enjoy pug stomping... but with the very low talent levels on this server what I would prefer is that those pugs and lower tier players improved to raise competition. Myself and the people I play with want MORE competition. Were currently playing the same 5 guilds over and over for competition and we ALL want new faces to play.

 

What I want and the players I deal with want... is more competition. Simple as that. I'd say there is a very small percentage of PvP'ers who are competent. This idea of a solo queue will not only increase queue times but it will also promote casual, non-competitive, skill free PvP and will NOT bring any new faces into the competitive side of PvP.

 

I simply don't want to cater or reward lack of effort and competition and suffer longer queue times on top of it.

You want more competition in pvp but the current system draws people away from PVP rather than encouraging them to join. I don't see how you can't see this.

With the current system, there is a reason why ranked pvp is dieing, because no new blood is joining. Why? Because PVP isn't appealing for a new comer. You want more potential teams or competition, then make PVP more appealing for new blood. It's just that simple.

Pretty much... I don't get it. I actually like when I get put up against my guild. I know the competition is going to be good... unfortunately we normally ruin whatever competition there could be by ignoring objectives and gunning for each other for bragging rights tho.

 

 

 

QFE... Quoted for emphasis... this is very common on my server. ALL of the good ranked guilds on my server feel the same way. And there are so few of us that when we do get enough for rated games... we end up playing the same damn team all night. It gets old.

 

Which is exactly why I'm opposed to anything that caters to lack of competition. I want more guilds q'ing for rated. And on top of that I wouldn't mind more competition on my regular war zones either. A solo queue will give me neither of those.

So you don't want a new system because the current one...doesn't work? You aren't getting what you want right now but you refuse to give others something they do want, for the simple claim that you wanna keep something that you aren't getting anyways.

You admit yourself that ranked pvp is pretty much dead. Why? Because there are no new players coming into PVP, there are no bonds formed and more importantly, when they do join, they don't have fun. Things will get only get worse if you keep things the way they are. Right now, people are leaving PVP a lot more than joining up PVP.

I don't know how else to put this, but if you don't have new people joining PVP and willing to stick around due to lack of enjoyment(or whatever reason), than you won't get the potential competition you are looking for.

You want competition and more ranked matches, but only under a system that doesn't promote higher PVP recruitment.

It just doesn't make sense....

Trololol. Did that sounded but-hurt I meant it to sound flabbergasted, guess I failed . Yeah I know I'm killing clusters of pixels (all good fun IMHO) but I just don't think I'm "tha shizzle" of human kind for doing it .

=P mostly just said that cause I'm tired of hearing assumptions about why people do whatever. I've tried pretty hard in the last few days (atleast in this thread) not to assume every solo-only player is anti-social baddie looking for welfare. Frankly, there are many wonderful PuG/Solo players (and I love it when they end up on my team.) Like wise there are many fun, skilled, and friendly Premaders. Just as not every solo player sucks and/or needs to l2p, not every premader has no skill and uses their gear/team/magicpowers maliciously. When someone does say something like that... they do kinda sound like they're throwing a fit... or just ignorant.

This argument of longer queue time is getting old fast. It does have its worth when you consider the dwindling PvP population but unbalance plays a big part in chasing people away from PvP. Addressing balance will increase population level hence it will shorten the queue times while keeping the status quo it means only sliding down the slippery slope. Oh, and I never advocated for a complete separation of brackets between solo and grouped just that a group meets another similar (not identical) group (on a must basis) and they are complemented by PuGs.

An argument getting old doesn't make it any less valid. Only if it can be refuted will it go away (and let's face it, neither of us have the know how nor the data to determine what will help queue times.)

That being said, sounds like we're actually on the same page. Matchmaking with group matching, so that neither groups nor pugs suffer from overly long wait times, PuG's can fill in spots for groups, and the chance of full pug vs. double premade is virtually impossible.

On a final note, If winning requires grouping with the likes of Zhaker and filipe then, no thank you, I'll stay on the losing side and QQ some more . No offense meant guys, but you are just not my type of people and I'm sure I'm not your type as well so ..... Please don't give me reading homework about scrubs and such. Read it well before you grown up to be the PvP god you are (just being mean here, but .. but.. caaan't help it )

 

Good luck hunting and please do "stomp lightly" if you can't stop "tha stomp".

=P Idk about Zhaker, but ya, Filipe is pretty rude and extreme. Either way, still alot to be learned by reading "Playing to Win" even if you don't take it to mean "Kick the crap out of the opponent till they can't move." I personally still do things that aren't in the best interest of Playing to Win (Main is a commando!) but my understanding and knowledge of games/competition, etc... has way increased. =P the first step I think every player needs to take is realizing they are not as skilled as they think they are. I took that step six months ago, and it was pretty hard to sit down and admit "Ya know... I suck at this game."

Now... I still suck at dueling, but my team mates can count on me when it matters.

The issue is not that premades don't want a decent match... it's that a split queue system could (and will) mean slower queue times.

This is the last time I'm gonna point out that you have no evidence of this, it is specualtion, plus you do now know how the queues are formed programatically.

It is simply false, and you fail hard.

=P mostly just said that cause I'm tired of hearing assumptions about why people do whatever. I've tried pretty hard in the last few days (atleast in this thread) not to assume every solo-only player is anti-social baddie looking for welfare. Frankly, there are many wonderful PuG/Solo players (and I love it when they end up on my team.) Like wise there are many fun, skilled, and friendly Premaders. Just as not every solo player sucks and/or needs to l2p, not every premader has no skill and uses their gear/team/magicpowers maliciously. When someone does say something like that... they do kinda sound like they're throwing a fit... or just ignorant.

 

 

 

 

An argument getting old doesn't make it any less valid. Only if it can be refuted will it go away (and let's face it, neither of us have the know how nor the data to determine what will help queue times.)

 

That being said, sounds like we're actually on the same page. Matchmaking with group matching, so that neither groups nor pugs suffer from overly long wait times, PuG's can fill in spots for groups, and the chance of full pug vs. double premade is virtually impossible.

 

 

 

=P Idk about Zhaker, but ya, Filipe is pretty rude and extreme. Either way, still alot to be learned by reading "Playing to Win" even if you don't take it to mean "Kick the crap out of the opponent till they can't move." I personally still do things that aren't in the best interest of Playing to Win (Main is a commando!) but my understanding and knowledge of games/competition, etc... has way increased. =P the first step I think every player needs to take is realizing they are not as skilled as they think they are. I took that step six months ago, and it was pretty hard to sit down and admit "Ya know... I suck at this game."

 

Now... I still suck at dueling, but my team mates can count on me when it matters.

rude.....Welcome to online pvp, smack talk and elitism is part of it, and no matter what people say i still see more "rude elitist jerks" at the top of the pvp ladders then the other way around.

Swtor pvp community is already terrible which makes quite impossible to have any good argument on the forums since swtor fanboys are so biased its impossible to actually talk pvp..too much clueless "old schools"...too much clueless" oh world pvp zerg is the best and really skilled yo!"...too much clueless " omg people gorup up for pvp what is this!!nerf nerf"...tooo much over all pvp clueless people ( one of the best was that last guy saying that 1:he is actually better then the professional sponsored gamers because he doesn't need voice communication...and that voice communication isn't needed to succeed at the highest lvl of play)

so yea, this "not humble" clueless pvp comunity does lead me to be rude(not that i care), because we all want something and i want a better pvp experience..

let em try in the not so rude way..

(breathe)

1- premades are encouraged in pvp of any mmo since mmos are a social game where team play and interaction are encouraged.Else go play a single player game, i assure you you get to queue solo there..

2-p2w wont ever make its way into an mmo again...paying to bypass a game is nonsense, using money for pixels is sad, jsut play the game....

3-world pvp is dead in every mmo an there is a reason for that, and i assur eyou its not a massive conspiracy of all the mmo developers.Simply put people dont want to play it(the majority at least).It requires no skill,it rewards nothing and honestly it teaches you nothing since all you do is zergs.

4-Solo ranked queues...im sorry i cant comment on this piece of work without being rude, people asking for it clearly lack a brain..

there, gave it my best to not be rude

This is the last time I'm gonna point out that you have no evidence of this, it is specualtion, plus you do now know how the queues are formed programatically.

 

It is simply false, and you fail hard.

<.< are you the guy who still won't tell me (or re-tell me if I missed it) why it's so hard to find 3 friends?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Current system takes the first 16 peope it can in order of queue'ing, and puts them in a match. I'm sure it has a few funky rules likes if 13 people are ready and the next in the queue is a 4 man premade, it skips those 4 since it can't put 17 people in a match. (and it takes into account factions.)

Either way, if there are 16 people in the pool (ignoring faction) and 8 of them are pug's, 8 of them in premades (2 4-mans). Under a split queue, no one get's a match. Can you deny the math there?

Now let's take 32 peoplle in the pool. This time it's 20 pugs and 3 (12) premades. PuG's get 1 match (16 people) with 4 people left over, while premades still get no match. Still with me on the math here?

64 people in the pool, 40 pugs and 6 (24) premades. Pug's get 2 matches (32 people) with 8 people sitting out. Premades finally get a match, with 2 premades (8 people) sitting out. Tell me you're following this...?

In example 1, our current system would have made 1 match, but the split queue system makes 0. 16 people are sitting around doing nothing.

In example 2, our current system would make 2 matches, but split queue makes 1 match. Once again, 16 people are sitting around doing nothing.

Example 3, our current system would make 4 matches, but split queue makes 3 matches. Once again, 16 people are sitting around doing nothing.

Please, please, please tell me you at least understand the basic concept here, it's only math. (<.< though if you are who I think you are, you didn't get 4 (or 7) is greater than 3.)

Edit: @Filipe: Oh, I agree with most of what you've said in reguard to game terms and concepts. ^_^ was merely commenting on your rough manner (namely the use of antisocial freaks, which tends to offend people.) While we should all conduct ourselves respectfully (I'm bad about that sometimes.) I also understand this is the internet and don't expect everyone to be nice to me.

An argument getting old doesn't make it any less valid. Only if it can be refuted will it go away (and let's face it, neither of us have the know how nor the data to determine what will help queue times.)

While we have no hard data to categorically say what will improve queue times, I think you agree that is safe to presume that a larger pool, from which to draw players in the matches, will mean shorter queue timers. I agree that in order to experience end-game PvP (don't read lvl 50 PvP) one needs to play with a pre made group. Only by doing that he can experience the synergies between the classes and unleash their true potential. But I also think that's not an excuse to create opportunity for gross imbalance when it comes to form the two combating groups.

I do play with friends in pre-mades and I wouldn't like that to be taken away from me still I find hard fought battles the most rewarding if won and, believe me or not, I enjoy more a, hard fought, close defeat then an easy victory that leaves no impression on me. Because in my case is all about the thrill, not the win and if that makes me a scrub then .... I guess I'm one .

One final thought, I find that gross generalizations like "all pre-maders are no lifers that want easy farming" or "all PuGs are social weirdos that want to dumb down the game" to have equal value and relevance for this debate. And that value is "ZERO".

For filipesantana:

"Nothing gives one person so much advantage over another as to remain always cool and unruffled under all circumstances." Thomas Jefferson

the fact that this thread is still alive shows the true volume of skill-less nerds still playing this game who just want a handout to reach the next set of gear so that they can continue to flaunt their mediocrity

Or it actually be an issue.

Premades do not belong in regular WZs farming pugs, but until cross-server PVP is implemented, there is no other alternative. On my server, often you only get one team to play against for hours on end, and if the premade wasn't in queue, there would not be a WZ.

For you people claiming that anyone who doesn't run with a hardcore PVP guild is socially retarded...let me assure you that some of us despise you "pros" and would rather PUG than tolerate you. Some of us, like it or not, are casual or semi-casual and play for fun. We are tired of the chest thumping, the snide or dismissive attitudes, and the bootlicking that you expect in order to keep the peace. I'm not getting paid for this and there is nothing enjoyable about spending time in game or in vent with sociopaths. You say pro, I say emotionally-stunted manchild.

So you don't want a new system because the current one...doesn't work? You aren't getting what you want right now but you refuse to give others something they do want, for the simple claim that you wanna keep something that you aren't getting anyways.

 

You admit yourself that ranked pvp is pretty much dead. Why? Because there are no new players coming into PVP, there are no bonds formed and more importantly, when they do join, they don't have fun. Things will get only get worse if you keep things the way they are. Right now, people are leaving PVP a lot more than joining up PVP.

 

I don't know how else to put this, but if you don't have new people joining PVP and willing to stick around due to lack of enjoyment(or whatever reason), than you won't get the potential competition you are looking for.

 

You want competition and more ranked matches, but only under a system that doesn't promote higher PVP recruitment.

 

It just doesn't make sense....

I agree that PvP for many players is frustrating as a fresh 50... and a change would be good. I just don't think this change is the right one.

I stand by my idea of a recruit bracket. While it would also slow down queue times I think THAT idea would be worth it and promote a less frustrating way for players to get geared. This idea simply promotes non-competitive game play and further dumbs down PvP and gives players no incentive to improve, and simply let's them marinate in their badness.

TL;DR: I want ideas that will promote competition and I also agree that PvP for a below average fresh 50 is not appealing. THIS idea is not a good choice but a change that better promotes fresh 50 PvP is.

And one more thing... the dev's promote community. From the beginning they have said over and over that they promote team work, community and people working together. It was one of their goals with this game. So in short.... the chances of you guys getting your solo queue... is slim to none.

I'd say you might as well adapt, improve and group up. I mean really... you're promoting solo play in an MMO. Do you not see the irony in that?

If not... well enjoy the solo queue. You're just making it easier for me and my group of 4 to finish our weekly's.

GG

Normal warzones are getting unbalanced as hell.

We have many heroes that get ***** in Ranked and go in premade with the WH friends to normal warzones.

Now i ask, how can a random group with recruit gear win against this premades ??

Dont understand why Bioware allows players go in premades in normal warzones...whats the point of Ranked then ? I see many ppl going to Ranked only to farm more fast WH gear to after go in premades to normal warzones...***

Many ppl are getting off of pvp because of this, and Gratz to this kind of WH players that go in premades to normal warzones instead of going to Ranked.

Normal warzones are getting unbalanced as hell.

 

We have many heroes that get ***** in Ranked and go in premade with the WH friends to normal warzones.

Now i ask, how can a random group with recruit gear win against this premades ??

 

Dont understand why Bioware allows players go in premades in normal warzones...whats the point of Ranked then ? I see many ppl going to Ranked only to farm more fast WH gear to after go in premades to normal warzones...***

 

Many ppl are getting off of pvp because of this, and Gratz to this kind of WH players that go in premades to normal warzones instead of going to Ranked.

Ranked is for 8 players.

Regular is for 1-4.

There isn't always going to be 8 players available within the guild with a good class set up.

You know what we do when we have a fresh 50 on our team... make sure that the other 3 in the group are geared well. You will rarely see us grouped up with more than one fresh 50. It's called playing the odds and playing smart.

Seriously... Do it... Do it...

Ranked is for 8 players.

 

Regular is for 1-4.

 

There isn't always going to be 8 players available within the guild with a good class set up.

 

You know what we do when we have a fresh 50 on our team... make sure that the other 3 in the group are geared well. You will rarely see us grouped up with more than one fresh 50. It's called playing the odds and playing smart.

So whats the point of Ranked dude ? Ppl are not doing Ranked in my server because they can go in premade to normal and its a easy win against randoms in low gear...Is this fun ?

You see Normal Warzones balanced ? I dont.

So whats the point of Ranked dude ? Ppl are not doing Ranked in my server because they can go in premade to normal and its a easy win against randoms in low gear...Is this fun ?

 

You see Normal Warzones balanced ? I dont.

Ranked is for competitive PvP. Unfortunately most of the populations are filled with non-competitive players who do not attempt to get better or improve, in an attempt to reach that competitive level. The players killed ranked.

You know an easy way to balance normal war zones? If more people grouped up with decent class set ups... it would help balance the game. This solo queue idea that's floating around would create even more imbalance. It would be one horribly set up team of classes after the other.

At least with the option to queue with 4 people you can create at least one half of a decently set up team. If more people did it... the chance would improve more.

It's not my fault people aren't taking advantage of the system in the way it's designed. Do you think that regular war zone groups were limited to 4 people on accident? Or maybe they did it on purpose so people would set up half of a decent group and queue up.

I could care less... competition is fun and if I can't get that... winning is the next funnest thing to competition. Use the system or get abused by the people who are.

So whats the point of Ranked dude ? Ppl are not doing Ranked in my server because they can go in premade to normal and its a easy win against randoms in low gear...Is this fun ?

 

You see Normal Warzones balanced ? I dont.

For whatever reason, a large percentage of people will not take part in competition unless they know they will win. Seems contrary to the point of competing, but some just need a prop for their inflated egos I suppose.

And i say more, the fun of doing pvp for solo players are getting over each day and you know why ?

Because they know if queue again they gonna have other premade and gonna loose again, and this its not fun and we play to have some fun, isn't it ?

Ranked is for competitive PvP. Unfortunately most of the populations are filled with non-competitive players who do not attempt to get better or improve, in an attempt to reach that competitive level. The players killed ranked.

 

I could care less... competition is fun and if I can't get that... winning is the next funnest thing to competition. Use the system or get abused by the people who are.

So if cross-server PVP was implemented, and the player pool was finally large enough to support better PVP, what would a solo-only queue take from you? You would have the population to do ranked, or even 4man non-ranked in a seperate bracket. You lose nothing by allowing new players and "baddies" their own queue. The only difference is that you would have to apply your skill to earn your comms, rather than farming players who cannot compete with you and your premade.

So if cross-server PVP was implemented, and the player pool was finally large enough to support better PVP, what would a solo-only queue take from you? You would have the population to do ranked, or even 4man non-ranked in a seperate bracket. You lose nothing by allowing new players and "baddies" their own queue. The only difference is that you would have to apply your skill to earn your comms, rather than farming players who cannot compete with you and your premade.

Even though I still think it's a bad idea that promotes non-competitive game play like I've said over and over. If we had cross server queue's I wouldn't care.

But cross server isn't coming any time soon and as the game is designed right now... I feel as if this is a horrible idea that does not promote anyone to improve. It's a horrible idea no matter what... but I would care less if we had cross server.

And i say more, the fun of doing pvp for solo players are getting over each day and you know why ?

Because they know if queue again they gonna have other premade and gonna loose again, and this its not fun and we play to have some fun, isn't it ?

Nothing will change until BW/EA decide that they have to change how PVP queues work in order to make more money. Right now I guess not enough people are not leaving over the PVP system to make an impression.

Even though I still think it's a bad idea that promotes non-competitive game play like I've said over and over. If we had cross server queue's I wouldn't care.

 

But cross server isn't coming any time soon and as the game is designed right now... I feel as if this is a horrible idea that does not promote anyone to improve. It's a horrible idea no matter what... but I would care less if we had cross server.

I hope you're wrong and we hear that cross server is coming. I was against from launch, but right now there are just not enough people on some servers for PVP to thrive.

As far as promoting competition (and this is only my opinion)- in a game like this, fun is more important than competition. I DO attempt to improve myself, and gear up, and not be a fail. Getting farmed by a team that has tanks and healers when my PUG never has either is not fun, however. More and more PUG players are quitting and all that remains are premades. Which mean the few PUGs who are left are more often forced to either get farmed by premades or join guilds they may not like in order to have a chance of winning. Both of those options are unattractive.

I hope you're wrong and we hear that cross server is coming. I was against from launch, but right now there are just not enough people on some servers for PVP to thrive.

 

As far as promoting competition (and this is only my opinion)- in a game like this, fun is more important than competition. I DO attempt to improve myself, and gear up, and not be a fail. Getting farmed by a team that has tanks and healers when my PUG never has either is not fun, however. More and more PUG players are quitting and all that remains are premades. Which mean the few PUGs who are left are more often forced to either get farmed by premades or join guilds they may not like in order to have a chance of winning. Both of those options are unattractive.

I hope I'm wrong too... and the top guilds and players are leaving just as fast as the pugs. They're tired of not having much competition and being forced to face the same 4-5 guilds every day.