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Time for a PvP Fix


fungihoujo

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So they gave other classes a reflect everything for 3 seconds ability, or a teleport to someplace useful ability, or a damage ability they can use while CC'd, but gave us a self stun basically that allowed us to take ourselves out of a fight and not damage anyone?

 

Ofiicially retiring my Sorc unless that "slightly" that they boosted affliction and creeping terror is like 120% slightly.

 

Well, let's face it... that's not happening.

 

However I did see some cool new things for healers.

- Force Surge: At 2/2, with 3 charges makes Revivification activate without channeling

- Overload instantly heals you and your affected allies for a fixed amount (one more heal)

- Corrupted Barried: At 2/2, Static Barrier/Force Barrier heals you for 1% of your health every second for as long as they are up

- Twisted Force: At 3/3, Innervate channels and ticks 18% faster

 

Of course most of those would mean bye-bye bubble stun (which now only applies to ourselves anyway), but I'm all for pure corruption if it's viable now.

Edited by TheNahash
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Pure corruption is NOT viable. I did a little spec testing last night on the PTS and here is what I found.

 

While we gained a weak defensive cooldowns, Electric Bindings was moved so far up the lightning tree that its not able to be taken by heal sorcs. Bubble stun still works, but only on the caster. Nice part is only direct damage breaks it now.

 

So in my playings last night, and tweaking the spec around I found full corruption can put out a massive amount of healing, but is still the squishiest class int he game, and not viable for PvP. You must hybrid to gain enough survivability to survive any melee class long enough to get help. This of course, reduces the amount of top tier delicious abilities sorcs get now to reduce cast times and boost healing, making us a so-so point target healer.

 

Thinking of rolling an operative or merc.

 

PS. there is a gear swap glitch right now that is giving people upwards of 70k HP in WZs, so that may have something to do with it. When they fix it Ill give a more detailed report on what is going on.

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They also removed Instant Whirlwind from the Madness tree.

 

sins

- low slash on an insanely low cd

- standart 4 sec stun 1 min cd

 

ptech

- standart 4 sec

- aoe melee 8 sec mez with low cd (45 secs)

 

lolmara

- force choke

- aoe melee mez with low cd

- lacks standart 4 sec 1 min stun, but has a "unique stun" of their own in the form of force choke, like it or love it, its unique and very good on some situations

 

mandoes

- standart 4 sec 1 min stun

- casted 8 sec ranged mez, with the option of turning it instant by using their nature swiftnesslike spells. Im assuming they didnt removed it for mandos, but i wouldnt be surprised if they did, they hate mandos btw

 

operative

- 10m INSTANT AOE MEZ

- standart melee 4 sec stun

 

snipa

- INSTANT AOE MEZ

- standart melee 4 sec

 

jugga

same as lolmara

 

sorc

- standart 4 sec

- 2 sec casted single target mez with no option of turning it instant, neither by talents or by spending major CDs

 

 

While i think all forms of INSTANT CC are detrimental to PvP (makes the game facerollish, just look what happened to WoW) i find it curious that they are removing the possibility of instant WW and now we will be prolly the only AC in the game who doesnt have acess to a instant 8 sec "white" CC, further undermining out situation in PvP.

 

Im all for the removal of instant cc of the game, replacing with more "thoughtful" casted cc, but if they are removing it they should remove of everyone not target a single spec / tree down.

 

But then we shouldnt be surprised, we cant do (burst) damage, we cant heal with acceptable levels of survivability, why the hell should we be able to instant mez like everyone else?

 

Scum and villainy indeed

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It's 3 minutes. The spell itself is a channeled 10 second spell that if you move or do anything else, the spell breaks and puts the ability on CD. (Kind of like Mage's ice block from wow but with a long channel.) It's essentially a "Please come help me, I'm going to die" spell.

 

It looks like a good skill and i will take it everyday, but with the lost of bubble stun AND knockback root, with heal sorcs still having to sacrifice the world to take at least SELF bubble stun i dont think a glorified ice block will change our fate in PvP.

 

Granted im still testing it tho, i dont like the big picture.

 

Were still dog tier.

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Pure corruption is NOT viable. I did a little spec testing last night on the PTS and here is what I found.

 

While we gained a weak defensive cooldowns, Electric Bindings was moved so far up the lightning tree that its not able to be taken by heal sorcs. Bubble stun still works, but only on the caster. Nice part is only direct damage breaks it now.

 

So in my playings last night, and tweaking the spec around I found full corruption can put out a massive amount of healing, but is still the squishiest class int he game, and not viable for PvP. You must hybrid to gain enough survivability to survive any melee class long enough to get help. This of course, reduces the amount of top tier delicious abilities sorcs get now to reduce cast times and boost healing, making us a so-so point target healer.

 

Thinking of rolling an operative or merc.

 

PS. there is a gear swap glitch right now that is giving people upwards of 70k HP in WZs, so that may have something to do with it. When they fix it Ill give a more detailed report on what is going on.

 

Thx for the info, so the situation of full heals is the same as it is today, awesomesauce healing numbers but totally unable to cope with anything related to PvP (people attacking you)?

Edited by Laforet
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Thx for the info, so the situation of full heals is the same as it is today, awesomesauce healing numbers but totally unable to cope with anything related to PvP (people attacking you)?

 

what you thought Bioware were going to help sorcs lol?

 

But yeah par for the course, nerf the hybrid specs some more, with 31 point talents that STILL suck.

 

GG Bioware.

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They also removed Instant Whirlwind from the Madness tree.

 

Seriously?

 

Every wz with knights and smugs, get chain mezzed by flashbangs, awes and we don't even get an instant SINGLE target mez anymore, never mind removing it not affecting players lower with the talent lower down in madness.

 

This is just .... words fail at this point, beyond retarded.

Edited by Chemic_al
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what you thought Bioware were going to help sorcs lol?

 

But yeah par for the course, nerf the hybrid specs some more, with 31 point talents that STILL suck.

 

GG Bioware.

 

Thats pretty much my impression after 10 wzs as lvl 55, 5 as full heals 5 as full madness.

 

While its kind of soonish to jump to conclusion, things doesnt look good.

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Seriously?

 

Every wz with knights and smugs, get chain mezzed by flashbangs, awes and we don't even get an instant SINGLE target mez anymore, never mind removing it not affecting players lower with the talent lower down in madness.

 

This is just .... words fail at this point, beyond retarded.

 

Agreed, instant whirlwind was a highlight of madness tree IMO and it shouldnt be removed while other classes boast a substance of instant and AoE soft stuns.

 

If they want to remove instant soft stuns, i will be the 1st to agree with, but dont remove ours while keeping theirs.

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Here are a few suggestions to bring the sorc back on par:

1) Move Electric bindings back down below Backlash.

2) Lightning barrier benefits should be increased to 20%40% per point. (On live it is 10/20, on 2.0 it is 5/10)

3) Corrupted Barrier should extend its heal ability to allies, not just on the caster.

4) Increase to healing coefficient of Dark Heal more. It currently now costs 70 force on 2.0, and heals for a little over half what Dark Infusion does. For 70 force cost it should heal just under or equal to Dark Infusion. Increase the force cost to 80 along with the healing coefficient.

5) Conspiring Force should slow at a minimum 15/30, but I woul like to see 20/40. I understand a no cooldown spamable slow could become very powerful if not done correctly, however a 20% slow is laughable at best, wasted points at most.

 

Just my two cents about healing sorcs in the new expansion. As far as damage sorcs go, we need an execute skill, plain and simple. Untill the devs give us an execute skill, Sorc deeps wont ever be viable for PvP, period.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking at the PTS changes, I'm happy to note that....

 

Bioware hasn't listened to a *********** thing any of us have said.

 

Ice block? Really? You know what made ice block work for mages? Two things- cold snap instant return of all CDs, and the fact that they could teleport out of it OR turn invisible for a short time afterwards so they weren't simply 'return to smashing!' material once they got out.

 

But, they did add a teleport to SI at least!

 

 

SI sins...

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We'll forever be a class delegated to the role of healer in BioWare's eyes. If for some reason you're parsing more than other classes in a raid that doesn't mean you're good, it just means they suck. Hitting the highest damage in PvP? Well that's what happens when you use Chain Lightning, Death Field, Affliction, and Force (or Lightning? always forget) Storm.
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Hitting the highest damage in PvP? Well that's what happens when you use Chain Lightning, Death Field, Affliction, and Force (or Lightning? always forget) Storm.

 

That's every single class. The people doing top damage are always either tab-dotting or using AOE attacks. This is nothing new and applies to every single class.

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The only logical answer to this whole thread is that BW does not think Sorcs or Sages should be involved in PVP, because if they did they would stop with the hot pockers to where the sun don't shine.
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The only logical answer to this whole thread is that BW does not think Sorcs or Sages should be involved in PVP, because if they did they would stop with the hot pockers to where the sun don't shine.

 

You left out PvE too. BioWare wants to see these 2 classes die off because of the lack of players so they can give the glow stick warriors their powers and consolidate them as one class now, Warriors.

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You left out PvE too. BioWare wants to see these 2 classes die off because of the lack of players so they can give the glow stick warriors their powers and consolidate them as one class now, Warriors.

 

lol yeah, wait for the patch notes...

 

2.5 All force users are being consolidated into Warrior class.

 

3.0 All classes are now Warrior.

 

3.1 All Warrior trees are being consolidated to Rage.

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Less QQ, more pew pew. The class isn't broken. We could use an execute and maybe a defensive cooldown. But they've buffed damaged in 2.0 sufficiently and made the lightning build a legitimate option. This class uses dots, AOE and utility. If you don't want to play that way, role another class. They aren't going to make Sorcs do damage exactly like Marauders, and they shouldn't. If you want the play style of a Marauder, roll a Marauder.
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But they've buffed damaged in 2.0 sufficiently and made the lightning build a legitimate option.

 

Bull Excrement! You are dead arse wrong. All they did was make it a more anchored non-mobile turret platform. It may do more damage; however, it will be shut down just as easy as it is in 1.7. There is NO mobility in using the Lightning Spec. No mobility means no survivability. Hybrid spec is the only spec we have for the Sorcerer and Sage classes to have both. You can go around with your claims of sweet nothings sucking up to BioWare and their developers all you like. The fact remains that the Sorcerer/Sage classes lag behind the rest of the DPS classes. Enough is enough, either BW give these classes the survivability tools necessary to be viable in PvP for a single specced DPS tree or remove them completely from the game. There is no in between here anymore.

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Bull Excrement! You are dead arse wrong. All they did was make it a more anchored non-mobile turret platform. It may do more damage; however, it will be shut down just as easy as it is in 1.7. There is NO mobility in using the Lightning Spec. No mobility means no survivability. Hybrid spec is the only spec we have for the Sorcerer and Sage classes to have both. You can go around with your claims of sweet nothings sucking up to BioWare and their developers all you like. The fact remains that the Sorcerer/Sage classes lag behind the rest of the DPS classes. Enough is enough, either BW give these classes the survivability tools necessary to be viable in PvP for a single specced DPS tree or remove them completely from the game. There is no in between here anymore.

 

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

What you really want is for them to make Sorc/Sage a faceroll OP class. That isn't going to happen. They aren't going to make more significant changes to balance before 2.0 drops. You might as well re-roll now so we don't have to keep listening to your constant whining.

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The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

 

What you really want is for them to make Sorc/Sage a faceroll OP class. That isn't going to happen. They aren't going to make more significant changes to balance before 2.0 drops. You might as well re-roll now so we don't have to keep listening to your constant whining.

 

Go kiss a Banta's backside, Sooner. BW has gone out of its way to frack over the Sorcerer/Sage ACs since 1.2. You are blinded by your own delusions of grandeur and your own self importance as the self appointed spoke person for BioWare. You live in a fantasy world where Panda's and Orcs live in harmony and rainbows dot the landscape. I have every right to speak up about how bad these classes are in survivability and mobility areas they woefully lack in as a paying customer. When you start footing my bill, I might, just might give your "order" some notice. Until such time, you can continue to whine how good things are for the Sorcerer/Sages and how those of us that to disagree with you are whiners. "They don't agree with me...QQ, QQ, QQ, QQ, QQ." Grow up you sniveling troll.

Edited by Ghost_Spectre
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I'm not speaking on behalf of Bioware. I'm speaking on my own behalf and I'm guessing a lot of other people who enjoy playing the class and find all the complaining about Sorcs being broken to be over-dramatic and off-putting.

 

As far as PvP goes, Sorcs have several good options for PvP builds. I use full madness and find it to be quite effective. I do not claim to be the best PvPer out there. I've seen other Sages and Sorcs who dominate warzones better than me. But I have enough success to know that the complaints you make are overblown. I've parsed the numbers. Sorcs are 5-10 percent behind some of the other classes in PvE DPS output. That's why they buffed our damage in 2.0. And it wasn't just new abilities. We got actual damage buffs to our DOTs that I suspect will close the PvE gap quite a bit. We will see what happens when it goes live and we get enough data. Until then, I'm not going to buy into these fatalistic posts about how Sorcs are broken. A DPS sorc can EASILY clear any content in the game in PvE. It's a bit easier to do so with a Sentinel or a Sniper. It looks as if they are trying to fix that. You can continue with the Chicken Little routine all you want, but don't expect everyone to agree with you. There are plenty of us who do just fine with our Sorcs and don't want the class to become overpowered, which is what you and some others are advocating.

 

I've said before that I think we need an execute and a defensive cooldown. I'd like instant whirlwind back. Other than that, most of the suggestions I see are way too much. If you don't like my opinion, fine. But I'm entitled to share it, and I am allowed to disagree with you.

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Tbh I find solo q normal warzone PVP on my sorc just fine (in the pts). I actually find it more enjoyable than my Juggernaut. There is something nice to being able to kite (either via CT and slow, or lightning's stun bubble and overload) and sit at the back, waiting patiently and staying out of sight, and running in (just in range) to dot and dish out my DPS, either via dots or FL spam when im madness or isolating somebody out and bursting with lightning spec. I understand that i WILL DIE when i get charged by 2 marauders, or a marauder and a pt, or a marauder and a jugg, but i try not to get myself into those kinds of situations. when somebody picks on me and decides to 1 v 1, i think I can do just fine. if the marauder uses all his defensive cooldowns, then i just lol it up and die. but when i respawn, i pick that same marauder and melt him from afar while he is busy 30m away, tunnel visioning someone else. imo sorcs in solo q normal wzs are fine and definitely fun to play. Edited by paowee
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I tried Lightning spec briefly on PTS, I'm not very good with it, having almost zero experience with it on live, and only running 4 WZ's with it on PTS. But I do play a sorc quite a bit and my main is a Sniper so i am good at positioning a ranged class at least and judge range pretty darn well.

 

I ran into 2/4 games against several good opponents. Dropping AoE's in your area, interrupting, CC drive-by's, and the general pushback you always get. Plus whenever a leaper noticed my big bolts of lightning they were more than happy to jump at me and see how big of a smash or gore'd ravage or scream they could get off. Charge counts as a hard interrupt and we can't completely get rid of pushback even with talents. It was full PuG of enemies though, so not even a coordinated RWZ team or anything (some may have been RWZ players though) this class and their partners arsenal mercs are just still not a viable class until something is done to level the playing field with interrupts and pushback. Not to mention mobility.

 

I played over the course of 3 days 25+ games on my Madness Sorc. Every single class was given a new ability at 55. Every single one of those abilities helps that class not be kited by madness sorcs. Plus things like Hydraulic overrides being made baseline, snipers getting more time in entrench and mobility, smashers being able to leap at you even while rooted, etc. Kiting has become almost impossible. Then they took away our instant WW too. Literally my only tool for kiting now is Creeping terror, which is a dot that last 18 seconds and ticks every 3 seconds. Using it on CD is what I mostly ended up doing, strictly for the root. It lowers my dps, dpct, overall damage, everything. But I had that root. Using it on CD I also never had it when I needed it. So I could wait and use it as needed for my only escape ability, but then i lower my dps, dpct, and over all damage too.

 

I tried node guarding, figuring that is what I am very good at on live. I could not solo most classes. I could force barrier, and I thought that would buy me 10 seconds for my team to come help, but smart opponents just immediately started to cap, so I had to cut my once every 3 minute ability short almost every time I used it. Fully 1/2 of the time as soon as I came out of force barrier, i was CC'd, as they had time to stop and think about exactly what they were going to do the moment i moved.

 

I had 50% more HP, but seemed to be taking 60% more damage than on live. I definitely did not feel I lived any longer, and in fact in big fights at mid or doors or someplace i felt like I died faster.

 

The 1% alacrity buff that had a 20% chance op proccing from force Lightning was pretty much never up. I only used lightning strike with wrath, as it really doesn't make sense to use it over force lightning as filler without wrath. So that new talent seemed like a complete waste to me, especially at tier 7. Self healing of devour and parisitism felt even less useful than on live, even with a bigger hp pool, partly due to crit nerf, but mostly because I have a self instant heal that heals more than 10 crits ticks would.

 

The other tier 7 ability that lets you take 30% less damage while you're stunned seems equally useless to me. it only applies to stuns, not all forms of CC from what i can tell. We are still the squishiest class, and we really don't have any escape abilities. 30% less damage while stunned just means we take one extra hit to kill once the stun is done. we are a class that needs to avoid being hit at all, because we melt so fast, so an ability that lets us take slightly less damage in some circumstances isn't honestly useful to me at all.

 

Lightning burns is another crappy ability that rarely procs off of force lightning, but does proc more often from the filler we don't use. Extra damage is extra damage, and we need all of the help we can get. I just don't understand why these abilities are triggering from lightning strike and barely at all from force lightning.

 

15% less damage from DoT's in this game is still a joke of a way to spend 2 skill points. Again 15% is a tiny insignificant amount, and DoT's aren't threatening in this game, except for Pyro Pt's, but those are the least of your worries if you have a pyro PT focusing on you.

 

Haunted dreams is now maybe the worst ability in the tree full of bad abilities. 0.50 seconds off a 2.0 second cast time is a stupid waste of 2 points, and although that extra 2 second stun on damage breaking the mez is nice, it loses its appeal when you're a dot class that still has WW break on DoT damage (We had been screaming about that forever, but to fix it they took away our mez for all intents and purposes, then gave lathality Snipers an ability so their sleeps wouldn't be broken by DoT damage.)

 

Sith efficacy is still crap. We can reduce (but not eliminate) pushback on force lightning, and reduce it's force cost. But force lightning still requires us to stand still and channel it, while the only way to stay alive is moving and kiting. Madness Sorcerers still have problems with force management and nothing was done about it. It's an ability that is absolutely required to take, but in reality does absolutely nothing for us.

 

Oppressing Force - still the dumbest ability in the game. I was wrong about haunted dreams before. lowering the CD of electrocute by 10 seconds by itself is actually not too bad. but adding on something that literally only makes any difference while solo leveling is stupid. being able to Whirlwind 2 extra standard or weak enemies does not do anything at all in PvP. It doesn't do anything in any operation. So basicly neither path you can take at endgame it is not an endgame ability. Flaspoints? If your group of 4 can clear a trash pull that is missing 2 standard or weak enemies, then you can clear a trash pull that isn't missing them. It has no effect on any bosses. Heroics while leveling? Still no. If your group can handle it with 2 extra weak mobs, they can handle it with them too. Soloing heroics though while leveling, yes, it does help there. No other class though has to have an ability that has absolutely zero bearing on any sort of endgame activity.

 

Sith defiance is still 2% flat damage reduction for 2 points. Tanks like abilities like that, even DPS classes in heavy armor don't bother with that ability, ad most of them have the option. It is beyond stupid that 2% damage reduction is considered in any way useful to sorcerers.

 

By my count that is 17 wasted points if you went fully 100% into the tree. Makes me want to go hybrid. I also miss the 10% increased damage I could get from the healing tree on AoE effects, so my deathfield is actually weaker now. Thanks for that, i did feel too bursty before.

 

I was planning on just filling my sorc with comms and retiring him once 2.0 hits. But the more I think about it, given how completely clueless Bioware has shown themselves to be, i am thinking I'll just let my subscription lapse in 3 days.

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For a start, whatever is being written here does no get much attention, as forum staff are focussing on pts forum. So if you have anything to say about the class might as well say it there.

 

So in brief, I've tested my sorc numerous times now on pts. DPS wise I find it quite nice, although balance could benefit from a boost and some actually useful talents. Yes, I understand we are jealous of phase walk, but these things won't change at this stage. And tbh force barrier is generally useful, situationally extremely useful. Just a small reduction on cd, egress speed by default, a bi longer knockback and for those that love force lift brink it back the way it was, and sages are in a very good spot.

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For a start, whatever is being written here does no get much attention, as forum staff are focussing on pts forum. So if you have anything to say about the class might as well say it there.

 

Sadly though, they are ignoring what is being said about the Sorcerer/Sages there too. No matter what we have to say it is failing on deaf ears. I am of the opinion that within a year they will do away with the Sorcerer/Sages as DPS and make them healers only.

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