Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

Thank you for the explanation on where some of the difficulties come from. Makes more sense on which species have been made available to players.

We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.

 

So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic.

Lmao, I just pictured a testing engineer walking over to the project lead of Tython at his desk and punching him

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

I would assume the gree are not likely than too? I guess no chance to see a gree shooting lighting from four of his tentacles. Or a Gree Jugg jumping on his target like a Octopus.

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

Thanks for the explanation - I do know that Ashara seems to have a lot graphical issues (is she still invisible under her clothes?). But I didn't really think about the head tails in the front and the problems they could cause. I'd still like to see Togruta playable, of course. Thanks again for all the direct responses lately.

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

So what you are saying is that any species that may require a little extra effort to get just right has no chance of being added. Glad to know that BioWare isn't interested in going that extra mile to make a awesome game.

So what you are saying is that any species that may require a little extra effort to get just right has no chance of being added. Glad to know that BioWare isn't interested in going that extra mile to make a awesome game.

So I guess you skipped the part where he said that if Cathar do well and are well received they will expand further? He hasn't closed the door on any race at the moment.

This is true, but it's also true that the majority of players tend to not want to play the "wierder" races. The most played races are humans, blood elves, and night elves. I read an article recently where the GW2 developers were complaining about how everyone is rolling human warriors when they thought they put their best work into the non-human races. Regardless, I think that SWTOR's cinematics are its strength and it should play to its strength. Some may feel that variety of playable races is more important than cinematics, but I think at that point you're wishing for SWTOR to have been made a completely different kind of MMO. I happen to have mostly stopped playing WoW because I like what SWTOR offers better.

 

Maybe at some point they'll make more interesting species playable, but I totally agree that they will need to speak basic. This fortunately does leave a lot of options open, still.

actually the reason most people played humans, blood elves, and night elves were for their racial abilities not because of what they looked like... well sept for maybe the elves but thats just kuz elves are ****** in movies and books. BUT i would have to say when i was playing WOW i mostly saw non human players i.e. ork, cow, goblin... mostly hord. out of all my toons on WOW i only had 2 elves on two servers.. one dwarf (his name was Santyclawz) everything else was ork, goblin, troll, and cow. though i hated cows.

This doesn't belong in the game guys, whats wrong with keeping lore even somewhat in line?

 

I honestly feel bad for the roleplayers having to read this kind of stuff and also the fact they play a with a serious tone but no serious players.

ok explain to me what you mean by keeping lor in line??? please!?!?! kuz i must be misunderstanding you.

Star Wars lore? its space full of many many species, human is slightly more common than anything else but still it is full of other species. so how is adding in non human non basic speaking races not a part of lore?? specially when there is plenty of it in the movies and in the books and in the comics??? the only place its not really found is in the stupid clone wars cartoon.

Bioware/EA didn't spend all that cash on voice actors though just so we later become a wookie and listen to him growl for 2 Weeks while you level. They also aren't going to rewrite the storys dailog to accommodate a couple new races, that content is done and you shouldn't expect or even want it to be revisited. I understand how cool it would be to play as a wookie or jawa but you have to realise thats more of a fun goof around idea. Even if the voice acting wasn't the barrier swtor being a serious game is a barrier. In no way would a wookie, jawa or yoda class even fit into the class/stories we have.

 

Like I said I understand it would be cool to play those kind of fun races but it doesn't belong in a mmo like this. Playing those kind of races belong games like the force unleashed or star wars kinnect once you complete the game normally and can play through again as a wookie or something.

 

I would love to see more races added into the game though, bioware has lots of options they can go with. I hope they don't nickle and dime us for them either !

first off that just shows how small minded/lazy EA/Bioware are/was!!! Secondly- the voiceacting in this game for the most part is horrible!!!! worse than some of the early dubbing of early anime!!! and the voiceacting of the alien races not speaking basic sounds like a person reading off a list of random words with no emotion at all, then EA/Bioware cut up the words and randomly threw them together in 5-10 word groups and then just looped the adio over and over and over and over and over and over to where yea that crap is annoying but that again shows how lazy and unoriginal they really were.

now why in hell don't you think a wookie or a jawa couldn't fit into this game?? (i know jawa is stretching it a bit but hell they are the ones that have jedi jawas in game already so its kinda their fault!!!) why change the story for another non basic speaking race?? whats the need??? and also what do you care what other people play?? if you don't want to play it then don't!! its as simple as that!!! and for the people arguing "but i do have to listen to them if they are in a group with me!!" um most replies in this stupid game are only a couple of words so at most it may take 5 seconds of wookie growling and that's IF they win the role.

also the bit about not belonging in an MMO.. SWG!!! we had non basic speaking races and yes we did hear wookie roars in that game and ithorian rumbles and know what??? we loved that game!!!.... untill SOE/lucas arts killed it

No lol...they ARE listening to guys like me who would HATE to listen to alien speak all day. Speak for yourself, not the playerbase.

no they should listen to US the people that would actually play it!! if you dont like the race then dont play it.... i for one dont care for the blind race we have in game now so i dont play that race.. aint no skin off my teeth!!! what do i care what others play as long as they are happy!!!

So what you are saying is that any species that may require a little extra effort to get just right has no chance of being added. Glad to know that BioWare isn't interested in going that extra mile to make a awesome game.

And I guess you have ZERO clue as to just how much work actually goes INTO making the Species.

And I guess you have ZERO clue as to just how much work actually goes INTO making the Species.

You could most likely find at least half a dozen volunteers right here on the forums that would be qualified enough and talented enough to create new player character models for alien species. The person doing the job has to be willing to put forth the effort to make the models great or it will look like crap and have clipping issues. Just like many of the models we already have.

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

First off Twi'leks usually only have their lekku in back in the movies, but if you did any research you would know they are used to show their emotion and are oftin moving and not always behind them.

Second, what customization?? this game hardly has any customization!!! the most customization we have is our hair and eye color!! other than that its quite lame that's why if you took everyone armor off everyone would just about look exactly the same other than skin color and maybe some horns/tails on their head!! there isnt enough customization in this game at all, its one thing we have all *****ed about since beta but was never addressed!

just admit you all are to lazy to do any real work and give us anything that looks good or anything we actually want! .

So I guess you skipped the part where he said that if Cathar do well and are well received they will expand further? He hasn't closed the door on any race at the moment.

except for non basic speaking races!!!! that door is closed, locked, and welded shut!!!!

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

This is just a cop out IMO. Saying you won't put togruta in the game because you care too much about clipping. Twilek clipping issues are all over the place. There are major clipping issues for humanoid characters completely absent of our species. If you have a cape and ride a speeder your cape clips straight through the bottom of the speeder that issue has been around forever.

I know Bioware likes to say they won't release anything unless it is perfect, but I'm sure many people won't care about limited customization or potential clipping issues if the content actually makes it in the game. I would be much happier if they release new species with limited customization options and then add more options in and refine clipping issues or whatever gradually over time. Being able to play as any togruta; limited, buggy, or otherwise is a much better option than never being able to.

Of course we also lack the ability to edit our existing characters in terms of hair or makeup so expecting species is pretty much a pipedream at this point. I personally don't feel much incentive to pay for Cathar when every response to adding more species is that it is super difficult and there is no guarantee that devs will even listen to fans for what species they want. Basically you are holding customers hostage by forcing us to buy the cathar race even if we don't want to roll one just for the small chance you may add more species at a later date. I mean you announced Cathar like a year ago and they still havn't been released it is majorly disappointing that Bioware has consistently failed to give any reasonable responses about species that fans actually want.

I want nightsister the most right now.

They don't exist in this era

First off Twi'leks usually only have their lekku in back in the movies, but if you did any research you would know they are used to show their emotion and are oftin moving and not always behind them.

 

Second, what customization?? this game hardly has any customization!!! the most customization we have is our hair and eye color!! other than that its quite lame that's why if you took everyone armor off everyone would just about look exactly the same other than skin color and maybe some horns/tails on their head!! there isnt enough customization in this game at all, its one thing we have all *****ed about since beta but was never addressed!

 

just admit you all are to lazy to do any real work and give us anything that looks good or anything we actually want! .

 

 

 

except for non basic speaking races!!!! that door is closed, locked, and welded shut!!!!

Pretty sure he said 'typically' *looks* yep he did.

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

Thanks for the response.

Edit: But I just also wanted to say that though I never played it, I understand Star Wars Galaxies had a variety of playable species. Obviously different engine and all of that, but the developers of that game knew the importance of species variety in a Star Wars MMO.

Clipping issues are valid, but as others have pointed out, there are all kinds of clipping issues with twi'leks and pretty much everyone else in the game. It's something that can probably be fixed over time through patches. I agree that quality is better than quantity, except in cases like this, where the quantity is so low that it's hard to see the quality.

We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.

 

So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic.

Kel-Dor and ill get you guys office snacks!!

Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

 

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

 

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

i'm glad to see an official commenting! but, if cathar do well, do you guys plan on doing anything with the sub species of cathar?

Why would it obviously be a Republic Species and not a Species available to, oh I don't know, BOTH Sides?

Of course you will be able to unlock it via Legacy/Cartel Market. However the Cathar are Republic Allies. It wouldn't make sense to add them to the Empire side from the start. The only friendly Cathar I encountered as Empire were the ones you freed from Belsavis. Even then it was one scene. Other than that they always show up as enemies of the Empire. I see them adding 2 races in the Expansion 1 Republic(Cathar) and 1 Empire(Undetermined)

We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.

 

So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic.

Have you seen/played the Sith Inquisitor story on Belsavis?

This is just a cop out IMO. Saying you won't put togruta in the game because you care too much about clipping

For the record, he didn't say that. He just said it's more difficult to do, and why they aren't playable already.

Basically you are holding customers hostage by forcing us to buy the cathar race even if we don't want to roll one just for the small chance you may add more species at a later date.

Who is this "we"? A lot of people do want to play them. They had a presence in KOTOR and a lot of people do, in fact want to play Cathar.

We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.

 

So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic.

Wow ... he actually does exist!

All I want for them to do is to do it *right*. Which apparantly they want to do, too.

And while they're at it, fix the Twi'Lek issues with no hoods and disappearing lekku when wearing certain masks.

It's like the worst of both worlds: no hoods because lekku, no lekku with masks because clipping?

Then why do the lekku clip through certain helmets?

That doesn't make sense. At all. Not even a little.