How is that it breaks the game ? You can *buy* the same item with the same cooldown at a vendor, except it is gone each time you use it.

 

So all you get with the reusable stim and med , is that you spare money on the long run. on the short run you actually lose money as you have to pay for a lot of diplo mission to get the purple mats.

 

Actually , for the number of time I had to use medpack , and stim pack (mostly instance, as for levelling you rarely need them), I could simply have kept my blue one instead of reversing them to get the purple recept, and got enough out of them to keep playing without reusing med/stim.

so true.

112 diplomacy missions, no purple mats yet..... thats what? 13k of missions at low level, hate think of the cost at max.....omg really hate to think of it...

Not gonna be a problem really, since all other profs than biochem sucks, everyone is gonna go biochem and voila, all balanced and fine

Realize that is what was said for slicing

Joking aside, BW only knows nerfs, that was the constant theme in the beta. I fully expect those stems and healthkits to have limited charges or insane timers.

so true.

 

 

112 diplomacy missions, no purple mats yet..... thats what? 13k of missions at low level, hate think of the cost at max.....omg really hate to think of it...

Don't do standard diplo missions for purples, only for blues. Buy purple diplo mission discoveries on AH instead, works out much better.

Don't do standard diplo missions for purples, only for blues. Buy purple diplo mission discoveries on AH instead, works out much better.

there are none on the GTN.

But thats irrelevant, Diplomacy is supposed to support Biochem, if it does not do that in a realistic manner for the level and resources of the character, then it fails.

after all, the Terms of use state that a character cannot have more item/currency/resourced above what is normal for its level. But in order to get mats on diplomacy, you have to give the cahracter far more credits than their level should have, which breaches the Terms of use......

Ok, so why so much hate towards biochem guys ? Bored at work ?

Everyone here did their homework about how things work in this game?

Biochem crafters trade easy $ from slicing/cool epic armours/ epic weapons/ crystals,mods and

->Cybertech REUSABLE AOE CC BOMBS, epic mounts and loads of fun items:)<-

for:

... free heal every 90 sec, that only counts in open pvp 1v1 /2v2 becouse in wz it doesnt make ANY differance in the long run. Every one can buy non-reusable version from vendor.

Also, till level 50, reusable healing potions are useless, they are to weak compared to pvp potions and health boost from wz.

(2k-3k heal is equal to normal heal from any healing spell in wz's)

PVP potions from daily q are better than most potions till rakata meds(and i dont know anyone so far who got em).

...Adrenal Stims ? U lost a duel becouse someone got (for instance) 5% crit every 3 min for 15 sec... 580 seems alot... but at 50 lvl its around 14% crit for 15 sec ...GAME BREAKING...U did check relic's uses and stats it can give?

...Stat Stim boost (just like wows flasks)

Differance is around 30-50 damage on skill

Test it Yourself then please call for nerfs. Theyll come anyway...

I'm guessing the OP doesn't get how CDs work in raiding...

you get 585 for 15 seconds every 3 minutes (which BTW is common).

what it really means is you get 585 for 1/12th of the time.

585 / 12 = 48.75

so biochems at 400 get a permanent 49 point average boost to a stat that pops as a CD to be used during the burn phase.

it is very common in every decent MMORPG for crafters to get a "max crafting level perk" bonus to their stats. whether it's a BOP mod, a bop ear piece, a bop enchant, etc. in this case it's a bop reusable stim.

Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pigeonholing players into one crew skill.

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. There comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem. I've always championed the idea of buffing over nerfing.

And the stuff required to make it isn't even hard to get. The alloys are already rotting in our HM flashpoints.

The adrenals that are being referred to do not add 565 to any base stats, you might want to do alittle research before you say that. But it those add to secondary stats surge/crit/armor etc, they also required a craft material that only comes from drop in operations, maybe also hardmode end bosses ?

 

The real problem with the stims/adrenals are they are extremely expensixe to craft, and so not worth it at all unless its in the reuseable version. The blue version cost 2-3 times that of a blue/purple implant to make in mats.

I dont think anyone will want to pay 10k or more to get a 15sec boost. If they made them super cheap then there might be a market.

 

The blue stims last 2 hours so i think they are only usefull for raids/flashpoints, but thats it. If they lastet say 8 hours then a player might pay 10-20k for that extra 104stat boost for pvp or normal play.

Yes, but if you die they go away...PvP or otherwise...Right now only 400 level purple stims stay after death. All stims need to stay on after death.

Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pidgeonholing players into one crew skill.

 

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. THere comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem.

Two things, I would guess:

One, the question of whether or not the cost of leveling Biochem after dropping their previous crew skill would eventually outweigh the cost of keeping their current skill and buying the consumable versions that don't require Biochem.

Two, you will be unable to access the items from the crew skill you are dropping from any content beyond what you crafted before you dropped it. Any new schematics that get added in patches and content updates are gone.

The difference between Exotech and Rakata consumables is not very large in terms of stats, only upkeep costs. Basically, if your crew skill can give you any kind of stat gain that is larger than the difference between Exotech and Rakata, it is more powerful to go that route, even if it is more costly in terms of credits. When it comes to min-max type play, Biochem probably is not the most effective crew skill available.

Yes, but if you die they go away...PvP or otherwise...Right now only 400 level purple stims stay after death. All stims need to stay on after death.

Max level blue stims persist through defeat. The perk of biochem, besides saving money on mats, is having the Rakata level stims, which are (slightly) better than blues and "normal" purples.

I can't believe how many people in this thread are complaining about things that are just completely false. Adrenals give you +50% crit? I freakin' wish!

Here's the problem: No other profession provides the kind of bonuses that Biochem provides. Re-useable stim, 8k~ medkit on a 90s c/d, and of course, the clicky. What's stopping players from going armortech/synweathing, crafting their best armor, then swapping to Biochem? There's literally zero, zero reason to not be Biochem at level cap if you're serious about maximizing your damage/healing potential. In its current incarnation, you're pretty much pigeonholing players into one crew skill.

 

There's a reason why I'm Biochem on both of my characters. There comes a time when you have to admit that something is just too good. Either buff the other professions or change Biochem.

reusable stim is moot, really. reusable medkit on a CD is moot as well, especially because you still only get one medkit per combat anyway..

I mean for all the sky is falling that you guys are crying, I'm failing to see the uberness of biochem, aside from you, the biochemist, not using consumables.

by comparison the following crew skills get:

cybertech -bop earpieces and reusable grenades

armortech - bop armor pieces

armstech - useless :\

biochem - we've already gone over it ad nausem. reusable consumables at +49 stat boost

artifice - bop relics that do 380 for 20 seconds (380 / 9 = 42 point bonus)

synthweaving - bop armor pieces.

Two things, I would guess:

 

One, the question of whether or not the cost of leveling Biochem after dropping their previous crew skill would eventually outweigh the cost of keeping their current skill and buying the consumable versions that don't require Biochem.

 

Two, you will be unable to access the items from the crew skill you are dropping from any content beyond what you crafted before you dropped it. Any new schematics that get added in patches and content updates are gone.

 

The difference between Exotech and Rakata consumables is not very large in terms of stats, only upkeep costs. Basically, if your crew skill can give you any kind of stat gain that is larger than the difference between Exotech and Rakata, it is more powerful to go that route, even if it is more costly in terms of credits. When it comes to min-max type play, Biochem probably is not the most effective crew skill available.

Honestly, no one at level max cares about credits. It's so easy to make money in this game that it's a non factor; I'm sitting at 3.2 million credits right now with nothing to spend it on. That being said, what crew skill offers a bigger effective damage ncrease than adrenals? Nothing you can craft is better than the Columi (possibly even Tionese) or higher tier set items anyways, so that effectively renders nearly every crafting crew skill outside of Biochem useless.

They need to buff the other crewskills. In some shape or form, and it needs to happen soon.

Honestly, no one at level max cares about credits. It's so easy to make money in this game that it's a non factor; I'm sitting at 3.2 million credits right now with nothing to spend it on. That being said, what crew skill offers a bigger effective damage ncrease than adrenals? Nothing you can craft is better than the Columi (possibly even Tionese) or higher tier set items anyways, so that effectively renders nearly every crafting crew skill outside of Biochem useless.

 

They need to buff the other crewskills. In some shape or form, and it needs to happen soon.

That's sort of my point. There are Exotech adrenals that any class can use, and they are only 30 points weaker than Rakata adrenals. It's not a big difference in effectiveness, but an issue of cost/convenience. I don't think that makes Biochem overpowered.

reusable stim is moot, really. reusable medkit on a CD is moot as well, especially because you still only get one medkit per combat anyway..

 

I mean for all the sky is falling that you guys are crying, I'm failing to see the uberness of biochem, aside from you, the biochemist, not using consumables.

 

by comparison the following crew skills get:

 

cybertech -bop earpieces and reusable grenades

armortech - bop armor pieces

armstech - useless :\

biochem - we've already gone over it ad nausem. reusable consumables at +49 stat boost

artifice - bop relics that do 380 for 20 seconds (380 / 9 = 42 point bonus)

synthweaving - bop armor pieces.

Cybertech - earpieces are outclassed by Columi items, which more and more people are gaining access to even this early on in the game. Grenades are OK, but from a PvE perspective, Biochem crushes. My suggestion: lower grenade c/d from 5mins to something around 2minutes.

Armortech - same as above, anything a armortech can make (even via BoP schematics found in HM flashpoints) are far outclassed. Throw armortechs a bone here; give them craftable 130~+ rating stuff that requires operations/HM flashpoint items

Artifice - Easy fix? Slap stats onto the relics. You're forgetting that Biochems don't magically lose access to their relic slot when they make their Adrenals, so it's not really an advantage at all. That and the second boss in Taral V (HM) drops similar epic grade relic pieces which makes it completely pointless to go Artifice if you were simply aiming for the Relics.

Synthweaving - same problems as armortech, same possible solution.

I'm not calling for a nerf for Biochem really, BW just needs to show some love for the other crew skills.

Cybertech - earpieces are outclassed by Columi items

No they're not. Cybertechs can make [Mastercraft] earpieces that are better than Columi, or Rakata for that matter.

I'm not calling for a nerf for Biochem really, BW just needs to show some love for the other crew skills.

I'm definitely with you on that one. Biochem is about in line with the benefits a 400 level crafting profession should provide, given the time and expense involved in leveling it. The problem is that other professions (with the exception of Cybertech) aren't.

No they're not. Cybertechs can make [Mastercraft] earpieces that are better than Columi, or Rakata for that matter.

 

I'm definitely with you on that one. Biochem is about in line with the benefits a 400 level crafting profession should provide, given the time and expense involved in leveling it. The problem is that other professions (with the exception of Cybertech) aren't.

Not entirely true. Perhaps I spoke out of turn since I'm only speaking from a Vanguard/Sentinel perspective, but the Columi earpieces are without a doubt better even with an augment slot. For example, my Sentinel used a 50 STR/59 END/29 Accuracy/69 Crit/40 Surge earring with a 28 STR augment attached and the Columi earring was still an upgrade with a whopping 22 more strength, 21 endurance, 19 accuracy, and 41 power.

Maybe the mastercraft epic earrings are better for other classes aside from those two, I don't know. But I do know that it's most certainly not the case for the two that I play.

But yes, please buff the other crew skills, Bioware. Nerfing stuff has never made anyone happy.

Not entirely true. Perhaps I spoke out of turn since I'm only speaking from a Vanguard/Sentinel perspective, but the Columi earpieces are without a doubt better even with an augment slot. For example, my Sentinel used a 50 STR/59 END/29 Accuracy/69 Crit/40 Surge earring with a 28 STR augment attached and the Columi earring was still an upgrade with a whopping 22 more strength, 21 endurance, 19 accuracy, and 41 power.

 

Maybe the mastercraft epic earrings are better for other classes aside from those two, I don't know. But I do know that it's most certainly not the case for the two that I play.

 

But yes, please buff the other crew skills, Bioware. Nerfing stuff has never made anyone happy.

I think you were looking at a sub-optimal schematic. I have a crafted earpiece with 90 cunning (including cunning augment) and way more secondary stats than even the Rakata earpieces. It's BIS as far as I can tell.

I'm almost 400 biochem myself and I agree about those buffs. They are stupidly overpowered. They should be consumed on use. And medpac is overpowered as well. 8+k heal every 90 sec and reusable - way too much. Nerf the amount of healing at least.

You'll be whining just the opposite when additional content is needed and you're needing the heals more than ever.

Seriously bioware, did you guys think this through? 585 to a single stat for 15 seconds every 3minutes, FOR EVER! how is that balanced?

 

The stims should be consumable, charge based, 3 charges per craft and it is unique meaning you have to use those 3 charges before you can make another one.

 

As i see it now, most people will take up biochem in the future because those reuseable stims are just too insane to pass up, and i dont need to stay 400 synthweaving after i create my full tier 3 set.

Yeah, OH WOW 15sec such a long amount of time... I have bio and never use the adrenals. 15 sec BIG DEAL! If it lasted a min, then maybe it MIGHT be worth something. But you can't wipe you rear in 15 sec. So what are ppl complaining about NOW??

Man, you people just love to ruin the game for everyone else. I'm glad I just have gathering skills then I can sell them and over inflate the AH because I'm sick and tired of ppl saying to nerf this and that. Well, now you're all going to pay for it via over exaggerated AH prices.

The big deal is the price - an adrenal costs 10-15k on my server. Now we want to raid and hit the enrag timer, multiple tries left with 2-3% boss hp. Then it will be: "Use adrenals on CD!"

So 20-30k credits per fight. If we would fail the whole night, we can easily spend 500k for reps AND adrenals.

Cybertech - earpieces are outclassed by Columi items, which more and more people are gaining access to even this early on in the game. Grenades are OK, but from a PvE perspective, Biochem crushes. My suggestion: lower grenade c/d from 5mins to something around 2minutes.

all of the Tinonese ear pieces have higher main stats (aim, cun, str, etc) than the Columi, and comparable secondary stats (given that the main stat will ALWAYS be more important) AND don't require any mandalorian metal to make. Not only is this not outclassed, but if you want the highest cunning, aim, strength, or willpower stats in the game, currently this is only possible with the BOP ear pieces. and they also have the augment slot like columi.

Again, I still don't see the point of eveyone complaining about this. I'm sure most of you played WoW. Let's look at engineering - completely useless to make money on but great for making cool personal items not accessible to anyone else. Did engineers make money - hmmm... prob not unless they crafted the hogs. Alchemists, JCs and every other crafter in WoW had higher lvl craft skill specific only perks and nobody QQ'd about that so why are you all QQ'ing here??? As stated by numerous other posters, the other skills need to be buffed as they are totally worthless to lvl. Why would I spend my money lvling something that produces inferior gear? The average person may go this route if they want to make money - I personally gather and send all gear from drops to AH to make money. I try to kill bosses that drop blues and then sell on AH. One of my toons has biochem for the simple reason that it's fun to pick flowers and then make stuff. Plus I can sell the left-over mats and make a profit. I play to have fun but with all these QQ'ers here, no wonder this game is already going down the toilet...

And furthermore, all you people waited HOW LONG for this game to come out??? Now that it has, all you can do is find fault and complain?? I really think you all need to rethink your priorities...

MMO today -> find the most broken side of the game as fast as possible and exploit as much as possible before the developers notice. Repeat ad naseum.

 

Slicing got nuked, Biochem your time has come.

This guy I'm quoting is the only sane person in this thread.

Why do people insist on exploiting games? And I use that term in it's full sense. There's a difference between min-maxing and exploiting. Min-maxing is finding the best case scenario and working towards it. Exploiting is finding an imbalance, and using it as much as possible.

I applaud the OP for making the thread, you actually will garner more attention for them to balance Biochem (either by making other professions more valuable for using, or by nerfing biochem).

Also, as a side note. Nerfing something isn't bad. Sure, to those who it directly affects they will feel the pain. But it's much more in-line with game balance to nerf ONE thing (in this case possibly, Biochem resuables) then it is to buff a bunch of other things. When you buff multiple things to bring it in-line with other similar things you cause a devaluation of stats.

The easiest way to think about this is that you'll find that stats get out of control easily. It's the same reason that WoW has had multiple revisions to their stat system, because rather then nerfing something and taking baby steps, they have increased values across the board. You end up with people having 10's of thousands of health...you end up having people hitting for a couple thousand damage. Rather then keeping everything at a low common denominiator you end up exponentially increasing everything until a major problem arises, then at that point action has to be taken.

TLDR: Enjoy Biochem if you have it. Don't be surprised if it gets nerfed. I don't suggest siwtching to Biochem for FOTM medpacks because it'll bite you in the butt. Nerfing isn't always bad, it brings balance which is what *most* people want.