I was a MENH/MLS/Healer: 4040 in SWG pre-cu, through CU, and into the NGE.

 

The epic pvp was admittedly before the NGE. I was able to take down 2 combat medics, 1 master defender and a MTK/Fencer hybrid with intentional use of CC, force run, heals, and DPS after about 30 minutes of play.

 

It was epic in comparison to SWTOR back in that version.

 

P.S. Let me be clear, this is not a thread talking about derpsmash specs, or stun bubbles.

 

The question is: Would you be upset if BW brought all healing and damage down by 25% in WZ's in an attempt to make combat slower and more "epic"?

i don't like the focus tree - i think it's so much better in pvp that it forces us all to go down that road if we wan tto compete. It's like allowing roids in sports. You don't crack down on it, and everyone feels they HAVE to do it just to complete.

Seriously. PvP is not intended to be relaxing.

 

Those 7k smash hits are by critical chance provided by the player's gear and skills that they have earned in one way or another. They are not consistent damage, and range from 1.5k to whatever their critical chance + critical multiplier + strength + power, etc. will allow. No different than the DPS Sorc instantly taking 8k of my HP on Voidstar last night.

 

Really, the only people still complaining about force sweep/smash damage are the same people expecting to "relax" and 2-button faceroll in PvP with little to no effort.

A sage knocking you off the bridge for instant kill doesn't count.

The pace of combat is fine for the most part. Certain class should be tweaked, but that's about it.

-25% dmg/heal NO THANKS. fix what is broken and we are fine...

tbh i think the SINGLEsmash dmg is okay. ppl should keep in mind there might be a lot more smashes hitting u in the mass

-25% dmg/heal NO THANKS. fix what is broken and we are fine...

 

tbh i think the SINGLEsmash dmg is okay. ppl should keep in mind there might be a lot more smashes hitting u in the mass

I would think the same but at the same time most of the vanguard/jugs damaging moves all have cc tide into them. Either stasis/choke stuns for duration/interupt, leap immobile/interupt, pushed kd immobile/interupt, another leap immobile/interupt.....usually dead after this from the second auto crit smash/sweep lol. If your trying to heal yourself well add in the kicks/saber throws/dispatch to negate the small quick heals you can get off.. See its too high of an instant damage for all the cc/interupts they have. Not going to even go to the point that they make you waste your few cc's on them because they are immune after the leaps.

Again, this is not a derpsmash discussion. There are plenty QQ'ing about that across a number of other threads. Please post in there if you want totall about that.

But wasn't the original discussion because of that voidstar with 5 derpsmashers melting you, cal, and owyn?

PVP is fast because the classes that have strong burst have REALLY strong burst, but they aren't the only classes in PVP. A 25% cut across the board to damage would certainly keep you from being taken down in 3 seconds by a smash train (instead it'd be 4-5 seconds!), but like I said, every other DPS class that isn't heavily burst based would be done in PVP as far as actually contributing, and there's still the issue with turrets never changing hands because reinforcements would be able to trickle in forever before you could fully clear a node out.

It'd be like when the MLB cracked down on steroids, and suddenly we saw tons of no hitters and perfect games from pitchers who'd had to figure out how to strike out super hitters. People used to rotation quickly will never lose a node again.

Overall I'm against it. There are better ways to do things. On the other hand it might be more fun than current PVP. TTK really is stupidly low right now, and that's just never fun. Something needs to be done. I just don't think this is it.

Again, this is not a derpsmash discussion. There are plenty QQ'ing about that across a number of other threads. Please post in there if you want totall about that.

It doesn't matter what discussion this is... If something needs fixed, we will stop discussing it when it's fixed. The more we discuss it, the more they can read it, the more others can see it to add to the discussion, and just maybe to more they would want to fix it. Putting 1 discussion in a certain spot does absolutely nothing but herd the sheep.....^

So, some guildies and I were talking last night & the comment was made that the speed of combat in pvp has become too fast. They asked with consistent gear progression, how BW could manage the speed aspect to pvp, and ensure there are still "epic" battles (their original intent and design with the GCD, etc).

 

It's an interesting thing to think about.

 

I am a twitch gamer & started playing console FPS games a long time ago, and I must admit, there are times that this game now feels like a Halo game (two shotgun blasts and you're having to respawn) rather than an MMO.

 

SWG was way more "epic" than swtor (in terms of time to kill, etc).

 

So, here's my question:

 

Would you be upset if BW decreased all healing and damage output in WZ's by 25%, but left it as-is for PVE combat/operations in an attempt to control speed of combat?

SWG's combat more epic? LOL

Spamming buttons due to no glocal cooldown....that was really epic man...

But wasn't the original discussion because of that voidstar with 5 derpsmashers melting you, cal, and owyn?

 

PVP is fast because the classes that have strong burst have REALLY strong burst, but they aren't the only classes in PVP. A 25% cut across the board to damage would certainly keep you from being taken down in 3 seconds by a smash train (instead it'd be 4-5 seconds!), but like I said, every other DPS class that isn't heavily burst based would be done in PVP as far as actually contributing, and there's still the issue with turrets never changing hands because reinforcements would be able to trickle in forever before you could fully clear a node out.

 

It'd be like when the MLB cracked down on steroids, and suddenly we saw tons of no hitters and perfect games from pitchers who'd had to figure out how to strike out super hitters. People used to rotation quickly will never lose a node again.

 

Overall I'm against it. There are better ways to do things. On the other hand it might be more fun than current PVP. TTK really is stupidly low right now, and that's just never fun. Something needs to be done. I just don't think this is it.

Did you forget that we won that game?

My personal thoughts on derpsmashers is that approximately 5% of them play objectively. If 5 want to chase me after a force run to the attacker spawn while we cap a door in VS just to kill me, I'll gladly take that death.

Did you forget that we won that game?

 

My personal thoughts on derpsmashers is that approximately 5% of them play objectively. If 5 want to chase me after a force run to the attacker spawn while we cap a door in VS just to kill me, I'll gladly take that death.

Works fine on offense, but we also saw the annoyance on defense when they can just clear a door that quickly. But there's few classes that can do that kind of ridiculous DPS. Meanwhile the point stands that the people whose burst ISN'T that strong will probably suffer unduly from a 25% across the board hit.

SWG was way more "epic" than swtor (in terms of time to kill, etc).

TK-Master permanently knocking you down for the duration of an entire minute while he consistently concusses you to black bar all of your meters to 1/1/1.

Yup..Sure is epic right there.

TK-Master permanently knocking you down for the duration of an entire minute while he consistently concusses you to black bar all of your meters to 1/1/1.

 

Yup..Sure is epic right there.

Snap. You make me miss my TKM. SWToR has no class that has the same awesome feeling of going bare-fisted against a lightsaber and winning. Scrapper does have some minor resemblence, but it's really not the same.

For starters, 7k smashes/sweeps should not be possible through No combination/mod itemizations. 7k instant aoe is.....well still no words to justify this

For starters, 7k smashes/sweeps only happen on recruit or PvE geared players. If you get hit by a 7k aoe..... well, you're probably terribly geared and not using any defensive cooldowns.

I find it funny that the people complaining about getting hit by fully min/maxed war hero / EWH rage spec smashes are teh same ones that are in recruit or pve gear. Look, the math just doesn't support getting hit that hard if you are appropriately geared. With 1300 exp, that 7k turns into 4.5-5.5 at most. Seeing 7k is rare for me, and it isn't just rage spec warrs that notice it. Our pyrotechs often call out "wow that guy is squishy as hell, just got two 6k crits on him back to back".

With recruit gear being buffed, and the possibility of ALL pvp gear getting the same amount of expertise, this kind of QQ should go away. And by the way, I do think rage is slightly overtuned, but until bubble stun gets nerfed (and yes, sorc dps should probably be buffed a little, or at least their burst), I dont want to see rage nerfed.

I'm a keybound button masher + mouse button clicker. I am a skilled PVP'er, and my credentials here are not the point of the topic.

 

As Porkins says: "Stay on target!"

IF you were a skilled PVP'r this topic wouldnt even be here, ya think? On the other hand I am staying on topic about the people that think its to fast. Thats what makes the game interesting and fun, if your skilled you will know when, how, and why to use certain abilities as certain times. Let me go hit someone with 19k health for 2k for 10 global cooldowns just what a want to have a 1 v 1 battle take 2 minutes long... No thanks.

IF you were a skilled PVP'r this topic wouldnt even be here, ya think? On the other hand I am staying on topic about the people that think its to fast. Thats what makes the game interesting and fun, if your skilled you will know when, how, and why to use certain abilities as certain times. Let me go hit someone with 19k health for 2k for 10 global cooldowns just what a want to have a 1 v 1 battle take 2 minutes long... No thanks.

You're wrong on pretty much any point. There's no denying that super low TTK isn't much fun. What about fast TTK makes the game interesting or fun? There's no skill in when how and why to die quickly because of low TTK. Low TTK actually makes things more forgiving for the team doing the killing. If you have to push everything you got to kill in a somewhat limited window things are more interesting than knowing that in the space of a 4 second stun you can burst someone down without them ever able to react.

No..... It's not so much the damage that bugs me. Bringing down all abilites by 25% would make other classes/specs almost useless.

For me it's the CC that the burst classes/specs have. Smash/Force sweepers

the force crush ability(lv 40 move in the rage tree) its very annoying does force dot damage then explodes at the end, also slows me by 70% ( some high #) for the duraation plus it gives the stacks of shockwave. Classes that can remove this are sorcerers with thier cleanse, operatives with evasion(1 min cd) and assassins with Force shroud( don't know the cd).

Force Choke and Statis only stun in the game that does damage, it also does the most damage in the Rage/Focus tree because of the 30% crit bonus to all force moves.

Force Charge/Leap- Interupts any move being cast and roots a target for 2sec-3 if talented. Juggernauts are able to reset this abilty with Force push which also intterupts the target and pushes them back. An important note for this is most juggies/maras use the 4 piece vindicator set bonus so 4-6 sec (not sure) after force charge they get a 10% damage buff to all attacks.

Obiliterate/Zealous leap- its another gap closer roots the target for 1 sec has a 10m range not sure if it intterupts casting it also does a nice chunk of damage highest I have had hit me for was 3.3k. On top of all this they have leg slash which costs 1 focus in the rage tree and it slows the target by 50 for 6 sec.

On a side note maras and juggies have very nice friendly buffs such as the friendly leap from juggies reducing damage done by 20% to the target they jump to, (25sec cd?) and maras with predation(somthing like that) gives a 50% speed buff to ALL players that are close enough to benifit (80% if speced in the middle tree). Plus they have buff that gives a 10%? damage and healing boost to all that are close enough to benifit these 2 moves require 30 stacks of centering which is easy to build up.

Hybrid Sorcerers/Sages with bubblestun this needs to be changed asap. The bubble imo is prob the best heal in the game its an instant 3k-4.5k shield on any friendly target and it has a 20-17 sec cd on targets if they have the 2 piece bonus from the mystic set. Now with the change from it being a mez to a stun it turns into an ofensive stun and defensive stun for ANY PLAYER you cast it on. Its awful when a rage juggie or mara leaps to you can break thier own bubble that was placed on them then have a 100% chance to get of a smash, for me this is game breaking because I have utterly no control over stoping that taking less damage, using a wz stim, etc. Its esentially a 3 sec stun on a 17-20sec cd that can go on your're entire team. It breaks my heart:(

These arent the only crazy abilites classes have but im to tierd to write about the rest... I love this game but its not fun dying half the time stuned or unable to move. O and sorry if I got some of the information wrong about what the moves do and the cd times:)

/Bonk

On one hand I would prefer slower combat so matches take a bit longer, via reduced damage/healing. However, on the other hand, I would like to see a speed increase via the removal of the automatic slowdown our characters go into when initiating combat. Basically, sprint is removed. Why is this ? It puts our characters into snail mode and sucks tbqh.

So run speed = perma on. Reduced DPS/Healing = win

My 0.2

there's a reason this game is considered the butt of all pvp jokes on mmorpg sites- protip, it's not because anyone considers this game to have good pvp.

rofl!!!!

On one hand I would prefer slower combat so matches take a bit longer, via reduced damage/healing. However, on the other hand, I would like to see a speed increase via the removal of the automatic slowdown our characters go into when initiating combat. Basically, sprint is removed. Why is this ? It puts our characters into snail mode and sucks tbqh.

 

So run speed = perma on. Reduced DPS/Healing = win

 

My 0.2

Are you saying keep movement speed up? Because that would make it even more difficult to take a node w/-25% dmg/healing.

With 1300 exp, that 7k turns into 4.5-5.5 at most.

You're underestimating.

My scoundrel currently uses 1288 expertise (a mite under your 1300 example).

Haven't looked at the weekend, but last week on Red Eclipse he was Smashed for:

6105, 6148 and 6179 by Mreek.

6070 and 6116 by Ledonks.

6353 by Kagé.

And not forgetting a 6119 Force Sweep from Rooftops.

Well-geared smashers can get 6k+ on a regular basis against full war hero players.

You're underestimating.

 

My scoundrel currently uses 1288 expertise (a mite under your 1300 example).

 

Haven't looked at the weekend, but last week on Red Eclipse he was Smashed for:

 

6105, 6148 and 6179 by Mreek.

6070 and 6116 by Ledonks.

6353 by Kagé.

 

And not forgetting a 6119 Force Sweep from Rooftops.

 

Well-geared smashers can get 6k+ on a regular basis against full war hero players.

And that's on a scoundrel- a scoundrel has about 32% damage mitigation from armour. A sorc has about 20%. Meaning- that same smash would hit a sorc for about 7.3k damage- even at full expertise.

And since it's auto crit... that means it'll hit about that hard most of the time.

And that's on a scoundrel- a scoundrel has about 32% damage mitigation from armour. A sorc has about 20%. Meaning- that same smash would hit a sorc for about 7.3k damage- even at full expertise.

 

And since it's auto crit... that means it'll hit about that hard most of the time.

correction: it's 25% for medium armor class + potentially a 4% from the tier2 medicine talent.

As for overall numbers nerf, i am against it. Tanks receiving less damage, no thanks.

AAnd since it's auto crit... that means it'll hit about that hard most of the time.

Correct. Mreek (for example) also smashed me twice more, for 5963 and 5994 which are as near 6k as damnit. I just used 6k as a cutoff.