No that's incorrect, even for previous nim progression most of the 16 man guilds just used 8-9 DPS as enrage timers are easy in 16 man compared to 8 man. I don't know a single 16 man nim progression guild that just uses 4 healers for nim progression. Most used 5-6 healers.

Well, then welcome to my guild. The only time we haven't run 4 healers is the 1st or 2nd time we did Cartel Warlords in 16 man NiM SnV. Even then, the 5th healer respeced back to DPS halfway through the fight. I don't know who these guilds you know about that run 5 healers or more, but I've never met them.

Corruptor Zero just has 2 add phases in 16 man hm and before the laser he has less then 10% life (6-8%). That means you could lose 10 People on the laser and still kill him easily.

 

Corruptor Zero has 3-4 add phases in 8 man hm, the fight last much longer (cause his has just 30% less hp in 8 man hm), and you usually get the laser when he has about 20% life left.

You can lose half your group or more on 8 man as well and still beat him so that doesn't change anything. I've been in groups that have done that and missing 1 more add phase is not cheesing mechanics. By that time, the most of the difficulty in the fight is done anyways so that extra add phase is unlikely to create a problem if your team has already done the first two.

On Tyrans you can lose more then 8 people to Inferno. The damage on the tanks is not scaled properly, so the more people you lose on 16 man hm the easier the fight is getting (unless you just lose healer) cause the enrage timer is not existant. On my last 16 man hm raid this week i took on average 1100 damage per second on tyrans as a tank (and the other tank just took very slightly more).

 

On Bestia, its the same, Tanks can easily tank more then 3 Monsters cause the damage is not scaled properly compared to 8 man.

The less people you have, the more difficult that fight becomes because the Simplifications and Infernos have less people to target in your group and thus a larger percentage of your group must deal with them. Tyrans is the one easier fight in 16 man because as you said, the damage is not scaled well (Affliction seems to be particularly weak).

On 8 man it's possible on a few fights yes, but on 16 man you can bring multiple additional healers for every fight. On 8 man nim tfb/sv i can't remember a single fight were you were able to bring 3 healers, which is completely different to 16 man nim.

I don't see how any progression group would do several of the fights in 16 NiM TFB and SnV with 8 DPS without being overgeared. To be perfectly blunt, that would incredibly unlikely to say the least. While DPS checks in general are lower in 16 man than in 8 due to the extra positioning and survivability concerns, you aren't going to be beating DPS checks back then with 8 or even 9 DPS on most fights.

Not if your tanks guard healers and if the healers are spreading out accordingly. Spikes or healing are not really an issue, if you can bring 3 times the number of healers (apart from Bioware screwing up damage on certain mechanics, which i have not seen this Tier at all). As long as Bioware refuses to create tough enrage timers for 10 dps in 16 man operations you can basically overheal your way through normal damage.

Yes, you can avoid the damage, but it's an issue that does not exist in 8 man. Spikes are by definition a problem regardless of healing because if a player takes more than their entire life bar within 1 GCD, they are dead no matter how many healers you have. Also, tough enrage timers don't exist in HM for either 16 man or 8.

That leaves it to what i said before: Communication and Coordination. But in terms of your own dps/healing or tanking Rotation 16 man is nowere comparable to 8 man.

 

16 man NiM tfb and snv was not more difficult then 8 man nim tfb/sv. They had some twisted mechanics in 16 man nim (were damage was not scaled properly) but you also could also take additional healers to manage that. In the end 8 and 16 man nim tfb/sv were about comparable.

 

This tier is different, damage in 16 man is scaling properly or actually just the same as 8 man (raptus for example) and dps checks are more strict on 8 man.

So you think the rotation for players is nowhere comparable to 8 man and that's true because 16 man is more far difficult to do maximum DPS than it is on 8 man. On Torparse for HM DF/DP, top 50 parses for DPS are generally significantly higher in 8 man than 16 (around 300 DPS). Do you think 8 man DPS players are just so much better than 16 ones? If so, please explain why they don't dominate the 16 boards when they do 16 man. Especially since there are way, way more 8 man guilds than there are on 16 and plenty of them do 16 (of course, only after they've overgeared it).

As for difficulty, NiM TFB was much easier in 8 man with only the Dread Guards being even comparable. NiM SnV was closer to 16 man, but still easier overall.

Well, then welcome to my guild. The only time we haven't run 4 healers is the 1st or 2nd time we did Cartel Warlords in 16 man NiM SnV. Even then, the 5th healer respeced back to DPS halfway through the fight. I don't know who these guilds you know about that run 5 healers or more, but I've never met them.

As above

You can lose half your group or more on 8 man as well and still beat him so that doesn't change anything. I've been in groups that have done that and missing 1 more add phase is not cheesing mechanics. By that time, the most of the difficulty in the fight is done anyways so that extra add phase is unlikely to create a problem if your team has already done the first two.

I was talking about the difference between the 2 modes not the actual difficulty. You can lose 4 People on 8 man, you can lose 12 People on 16 man, you have more adds and a longer fight, thats a difference....

The less people you have, the more difficult that fight becomes because the Simplifications and Infernos have less people to target in your group and thus a larger percentage of your group must deal with them. Tyrans is the one easier fight in 16 man because as you said, the damage is not scaled well (Affliction seems to be particularly weak).

Okay since when is dealing with simplification and Inferno really difficult.

I don't see how any progression group would do several of the fights in 16 NiM TFB and SnV with 8 DPS without being overgeared. To be perfectly blunt, that would incredibly unlikely to say the least. While DPS checks in general are lower in 16 man than in 8 due to the extra positioning and survivability concerns, you aren't going to be beating DPS checks back then with 8 or even 9 DPS on most fights.

Well simply no, actually you won't have problems with that. Even on 8 man nim enrage timers dps could slack for 200-300 dps each easily, not even mentioning 16 man nim enrage timers. Just count it together.

Yes, you can avoid the damage, but it's an issue that does not exist in 8 man. Spikes are by definition a problem regardless of healing because if a player takes more than their entire life bar within 1 GCD, they are dead no matter how many healers you have. Also, tough enrage timers don't exist in HM for either 16 man or 8.

 

 

 

So you think the rotation for players is nowhere comparable to 8 man and that's true because 16 man is more far difficult to do maximum DPS than it is on 8 man. On Torparse for HM DF/DP, top 50 parses for DPS are generally significantly higher in 8 man than 16 (around 300 DPS). Do you think 8 man DPS players are just so much better than 16 ones? If so, please explain why they don't dominate the 16 boards when they do 16 man. Especially since there are way, way more 8 man guilds than there are on 16 and plenty of them do 16 (of course, only after they've overgeared it).

 

As for difficulty, NiM TFB was much easier in 8 man with only the Dread Guards being even comparable. NiM SnV was closer to 16 man, but still easier overall.

Well entire life bar within 1 gcd, i must admit haven't seen that so far in either 16 man nor 8 man hm/nim and i play an assassin tank. I was just speaking about enrage timers generally being tougher in 8 man (compared to 16 man).

It's not more difficult to get higher dps in 16 man. I run both 8 and 16 man operations with the same dps (and with my own dps alts) and there's no difference in the damage they deal.

Simple reason for the Leaderboards: 8 man has 4 times the number of actual parses then 16 man. When one side has 2000 and the other 8000 parses the top 50 will obviously be dominated by the 8000 parses even if they on average are the same.

I have no were said that 8 man dps are stronger dps then dps from 16 man guilds.

As above

I was talking about the difference between the 2 modes not the actual difficulty. You can lose 4 People on 8 man, you can lose 12 People on 16 man, you have more adds and a longer fight, thats a difference....

Yes, there's a difference, but not one that matters.

Okay since when is dealing with simplification and Inferno really difficult.

Nobody said it was actually difficult. It's about what is more relatively difficult and/or easy.

Well simply no, actually you won't have problems with that. Even on 8 man nim enrage timers dps could slack for 200-300 dps each easily, not even mentioning 16 man nim enrage timers. Just count it together.

That's great that it's possible, but did any team ever do this without being overgeared? The answer is no. There's a massive difference between potential DPS and actual DPS. Just look at the DPS leaderboards on dummies and actual raids for single target damage.

Well entire life bar within 1 gcd, i must admit haven't seen that so far in either 16 man nor 8 man hm/nim and i play an assassin tank. I was just speaking about enrage timers generally being tougher in 8 man (compared to 16 man).

I've seen it happen several times on 16 man NiM TFB (Kephess and TFB especially) so it's definitely possible. It also happened with the Operations Chief Terminate (the only actual spike in 8 man). The fact that you haven't experienced it is similar to many other 8 man guilds who casually do 16 mans. I have yet to find a reason why people like you who don't do 16 man progression when it's relevant try to argue anything about 16 mans when they are objectively wrong every time. If you don't have the experience, you have zero basis for comparison. It's that simple. 16 man teams do 8 man progression concurrently for more gear because it's easier and 8 man teams don't do 16 man progression until they already experienced and geared from 8 man. That's how it actually works.

It's not more difficult to get higher dps in 16 man. I run both 8 and 16 man operations with the same dps (and with my own dps alts) and there's no difference in the damage they deal.

It is on most fights if you are doing it correctly and mitigating as much damage as you can at the same time as you are DPSing. I guess in these 16 man groups with 6 healers, you can safely ignore your responsibilities, but for anyone doing progression without being overgeared, that's not the case.

Simple reason for the Leaderboards: 8 man has 4 times the number of actual parses then 16 man. When one side has 2000 and the other 8000 parses the top 50 will obviously be dominated by the 8000 parses even if they on average are the same.

 

I have no were said that 8 man dps are stronger dps then dps from 16 man guilds.

I know you didn't say that; I mentioned it because it's the only logical conclusion from your argument. The difference in having more parses would create a difference, but nowhere to the extent that actually exists. Remember that the top 50 parses are not averages; they are the best parses. One of the few fights where the DPS among 16 man and 8 man are very close is Nefra and that's because it's the closest one we have to a dummy fight.

Yes, there's a difference, but not one that matters.

 

Nobody said it was actually difficult. It's about what is more relatively difficult and/or easy.

That's great that it's possible, but did any team ever do this without being overgeared? The answer is no. There's a massive difference between potential DPS and actual DPS. Just look at the DPS leaderboards on dummies and actual raids for single target damage.

We did, Other guilds did. Even non Progression guilds did. Ok let's take DG NiM as an example (as i know health and enrage timers of this fight excactly, i can take out some other fights if you want). New enrage timer 7 min 30 (for both 8 and 16 man nim). Health of Ciphas in 8 man 1,71 mill, Health in 16 man nim 2,87 mill., that means 62% more health for ciphas in 16 man nim.

You don't need 6 additional dps to clear 62% more health in time, you would need just 4 dps (the dps of 2 tanks is less then 1 dps) to do that (means 6 healer).

Another thing, even on 8 man People didn't really need to focus on tight dps after the nerfs. You could very easy kill it in a lot less then 7 min with 72 gear. So scaling that to 16 man (8,8% *8) is almost another person which doesn't need to dps

If you have 7 very good dps in full 72 gear, i think you can kill dg nim aswell.

I've seen it happen several times on 16 man NiM TFB (Kephess and TFB especially) so it's definitely possible. It also happened with the Operations Chief Terminate (the only actual spike in 8 man). The fact that you haven't experienced it is similar to many other 8 man guilds who casually do 16 mans. I have yet to find a reason why people like you who don't do 16 man progression when it's relevant try to argue anything about 16 mans when they are objectively wrong every time. If you don't have the experience, you have zero basis for comparison. It's that simple. 16 man teams do 8 man progression concurrently for more gear because it's easier and 8 man teams don't do 16 man progression until they already experienced and geared from 8 man. That's how it actually works.

I forgot the old terminate (they fixed that long ago actually), my bad. Kephess doesn't attack hard enough to one shot a tank and assuming you have a sorcerer he won't one shot any Person with his jump.

Same for tfb, doesn't attack hard enough for 40k dps in 1 gcd for the tank (unless enraged)

Then random insults without facts. I have disproven what you said, so i don't care for insults. They just prove my point.

It is on most fights if you are doing it correctly and mitigating as much damage as you can at the same time as you are DPSing. I guess in these 16 man groups with 6 healers, you can safely ignore your responsibilities, but for anyone doing progression without being overgeared, that's not the case.

 

I know you didn't say that; I mentioned it because it's the only logical conclusion from your argument. The difference in having more parses would create a difference, but nowhere to the extent that actually exists. Remember that the top 50 parses are not averages; they are the best parses. One of the few fights where the DPS among 16 man and 8 man are very close is Nefra and that's because it's the closest one we have to a dummy fight.

Of course it would create a difference. Just look at the number of kill logs. Draxus has 1100 kill logs on 16 man and 7100 kill logs on 8 man hm. Brontes has 500 kill logs on 16 man hm and 14500 on 8 man hm.

On Nefra we have 4000 vs 9000 kills on 16 vs 8 man hm. Nefra is a fight were simply 4 times as many players have uploaded their logs, mainly because they kill it with 8 man on 16 man hm.

I suggest you look at the average damage of all logs in the Overview of Torparse (so you see the combined average damage of all the persons that uploaded logs on torparse).

50 more average dps for draxxus and 100 more average dps for brontes on 8 man. 100 more average dps for corruptor Zero and Grob'thok on 16 man.

So on average, the average dps people do, is the same for both 8 man and 16 man hm.

And before you start with: "There are less kill logs because it's more difficult...", there are less kill logs because:

Getting 16 good People together is way more difficult then getting 8 People together and most of the guilds will just split up into 2 8 man Groups instead of a 16 man Group (if they have the perons) because some persons having huge lag in 16 man operations.

So one time you say it doesnt matter if the fight takes double the time and being able to lose 6-8 more people doesnt matter and on the other hand you say it does matter when you are even able to loose people that Inferno gets then slightly more difficult. Delude yourself more please.

You said 16 man can cheese mechanics and you've given zero evidence of this so far. Cheesing mechanics is like when stealth classes can remove the adds in Withering Horror, not when a fight is shorter than normal due to an unusually low health pool on a boss. Both fights require the same exact mechanics to beat.

As for losing people, you can lose the exact same percentage of people in 8 man that you can in 16 man and still win. As long as 1 healer, 1 tank, and 1 DPS are alive at the end, you can beat it regardless of how many you started with so that means nothing.

We did, Other guilds did. Even non Progression guilds did. Ok let's take DG NiM as an example (as i know health and enrage timers of this fight excactly, i can take out some other fights if you want). New enrage timer 7 min 30 (for both 8 and 16 man nim). Health of Ciphas in 8 man 1,71 mill, Health in 16 man nim 2,87 mill., that means 62% more health for ciphas in 16 man nim.

You don't need 6 additional dps to clear 62% more health in time, you would need just 4 dps (the dps of 2 tanks is less then 1 dps) to do that (means 6 healer).

Another thing, even on 8 man People didn't really need to focus on tight dps after the nerfs. You could very easy kill it in a lot less then 7 min with 72 gear. So scaling that to 16 man (8,8% *8) is almost another person which doesn't need to dps

If you have 7 very good dps in full 72 gear, i think you can kill dg nim aswell.

Sorry, but I'm calling complete ******** on your claim. No team has beaten either 16 man NiM TFB or SnV using 8 DPS with full 72 gear or anything even close to that. I certainly don't see your kill shots in the NiM TFB and SnV threads. I see 6 guilds that beat 16 man NiM TFB and SnV and your guild does not appear there nor does any other one that even claimed to beat it with less than 10 DPS during progression. Even then, one of those only beat both of them with full 75 gear after having done it for months in 8 man. You can claim whatever you feel like, but you have no proof.

You can beat Withering Horror with much less people, but that's there's no realistic way to do TFB and most of other bosses with their own DPS checks. It's nice that you have calculated that it can theoretically happen, but it doesn't matter since it never actually did. Based on your ridiculous calculations, a team could have beaten pre-nerf Dread Guards with 4 Juggernaught DPS, but of course that would never actually happen since 4 melee sub-optimal DPS back then would have not worked in reality.

I forgot the old terminate (they fixed that long ago actually), my bad. Kephess doesn't attack hard enough to one shot a tank and assuming you have a sorcerer he won't one shot any Person with his jump.

Same for tfb, doesn't attack hard enough for 40k dps in 1 gcd for the tank (unless enraged)

Then random insults without facts. I have disproven what you said, so i don't care for insults. They just prove my point.

I have not insulted you at all and you haven't disproven anything I've said. You just make wild claims with no evidence. Also, TFB can easily one shot a tank using the debuff from the orbs in the first phase (2-3 stacks is absurd damage) and getting hit by the tentacle if they don't use their defensive cooldowns appropriately.

You said 16 man can cheese mechanics and you've given zero evidence of this so far. Cheesing mechanics is like when stealth classes can remove the adds in Withering Horror, not when a fight is shorter than normal due to an unusually low health pool on a boss. Both fights require the same exact mechanics to beat.

And no, one fight requires you to kill atleast 3-4 add phases before the laser, the other fight requires you to kill 2 add phases before the laser. How is that any different to clearing 4 add phases on WH without an assassin and 2 add phases with an assassin.

As for losing people, you can lose the exact same percentage of people in 8 man that you can in 16 man and still win. As long as 1 healer, 1 tank, and 1 DPS are alive at the end, you can beat it regardless of how many you started with so that means nothing.

Sorry, but I'm calling complete ******** on your claim. No team has beaten either 16 man NiM TFB or SnV using 8 DPS with full 72 gear or anything even close to that. I certainly don't see your kill shots in the NiM TFB and SnV threads. I see 6 guilds that beat 16 man NiM TFB and SnV and your guild does not appear there nor does any other one that even claimed to beat it with less than 10 DPS during progression. Even then, one of those only beat both of them with full 75 gear after having done it for months in 8 man. You can claim whatever you feel like, but you have no proof.

 

You can beat Withering Horror with much less people, but that's there's no realistic way to do TFB and most of other bosses with their own DPS checks. It's nice that you have calculated that it can theoretically happen, but it doesn't matter since it never actually did. Based on your ridiculous calculations, a team could have beaten pre-nerf Dread Guards with 4 Juggernaught DPS, but of course that would never actually happen since 4 melee sub-optimal DPS back then would have not worked in reality.

I was not talking about 4 melee dps, i was just talking about the dps requirements for 16 man and 8 man, i never said anything about the dps composition, so don't lie. DPS requirement =/= DPS composition.

16 man had 62% more life with the same enrage timer but with 150% more dps player when they take 10 dps. So simple facts, but hey one can ignore them and instead start attacking other persons and start lieing.

I have not insulted you at all and you haven't disproven anything I've said. You just make wild claims with no evidence. Also, TFB can easily one shot a tank using the debuff from the orbs in the first phase (2-3 stacks is absurd damage) and getting hit by the tentacle if they don't use their defensive cooldowns appropriately.

Who uses the debuff from orbs on the tanks . Oh and i think i have disproven every wrong Information with my posts.

Of course you can cheese the mechanics, you can add phases, you can lose more people for laser, you can cheese through multiple dread Monsters, you can cheese through Inferno...

 

And no, one fight requires you to kill atleast 3-4 add phases before the laser, the other fight requires you to kill 2 add phases before the laser. How is that any different to clearing 4 add phases on WH without an assassin and 2 add phases with an assassin.

 

3/8 = 3/16 ?! I dont think so.

There's a big difference between them because you can completely ignore the small adds for WH completely by having 2 stealth characters. Thus, you remove the mechanic of having to deal with them entirely. Every statement you have made regarding what can be cheesed in 16 man is wrong or can be done in 8 man as well.

I was not talking about 4 melee dps, i was just talking about the dps requirements for 16 man and 8 man, i never said anything about the dps composition, so don't lie. DPS requirement =/= DPS composition.

 

16 man had 62% more life with the same enrage timer but with 150% more dps player when they take 10 dps. So simple facts, but hey one can ignore them and instead start attacking other persons and start lieing.

No one said they are the same and I have yet to attack you so please stop playing the victim. All I've done is correct your false statements and try to show that your theory is different from reality. You have no proof whatsoever of you and these other progression guilds beating 16 man with 8 non-overgeared DPS and you have lost all credibility with your incredulous claims of "non-progression" teams beating 16 man NiM TFB and/or SnV with 8 DPS even now, much less doing it without being overgeared.

We're done here, but in the future, I would advise you to keep your ignorance to yourself on subjects on which you lack experience and knowledge like this one. It's not appreciated when people like you decide to spread misinformation and lie to the community. Of course, this is an online forum so it's a frequent problem that will always exist, but there is no reason for you to contribute to it with blatantly false information. You've always been better than this before and stooping to this level just seems unlike you.

I don't blame you for taking the easy way out in doing 8 mans as the path of least resistance is very tempting and most people don't have the time or dedication needed to do 16 man progression. If some day you want something closer to a challenge, you can always try 16 mans out during the next NiM tier during progression. Good luck.

There's a big difference between them because you can completely ignore the small adds for WH completely by having 2 stealth characters. Thus, you remove the mechanic of having to deal with them entirely. Every statement you have made regarding what can be cheesed in 16 man is wrong or can be done in 8 man as well.

Still People call it mechanic cheesing when you just have 1 shadow/assassin tanking. Partially removing or fully removing a mechanic is cheesing. First Lie from you. My statements are simply correct, you don't even try to defute them.

No one said they are the same and I have yet to attack you so please stop playing the victim. All I've done is correct your false statements and try to show that your theory is different from reality. You have no proof whatsoever of you and these other progression guilds beating 16 man with 8 non-overgeared DPS and you have lost all credibility with your incredulous claims of "non-progression" teams beating 16 man NiM TFB and/or SnV with 8 DPS even now, much less doing it without being overgeared.

I have never said that non-Progression Teams beat 16 man nim tfb. I said that they easily meet the dps requirements for tfb nim 16 man as most of the 8 man enrages even on nim are very easy.

Pre DG Nim required atleast 200 dps more from every dps, still guilds killed it with 72 gear.

Also, as you can't deny that tfb nim dg has 62% more health in 16 man nim but you have 150% more dps Players, your first part is simply trying to spread misinformation on the forums. Pathethic.

We're done here, but in the future, I would advise you to keep your ignorance to yourself on subjects on which you lack experience and knowledge like this one. It's not appreciated when people like you decide to spread misinformation and lie to the community. Of course, this is an online forum so it's a frequent problem that will always exist, but there is no reason for you to contribute to it with blatantly false information. You've always been better than this before and stooping to this level just seems unlike you.

 

I don't blame you for taking the easy way out in doing 8 mans as the path of least resistance is very tempting and most people don't have the time or dedication needed to do 16 man progression. If some day you want something closer to a challenge, you can always try 16 mans out during the next NiM tier during progression. Good luck.

I am never lieing. But you are not understanding that enrage timers are way tighter in 8 man then in 16 man. Well i guess some people are not smart enough to know wether 62 or 150 is the bigger number.

It's you trying to spread misinformations around the forums.

I said tfb and sv nim 16 man are as difficult as sv/tfb 8 man nim and i know that the top 16 man and 8 man nim guilds all aggree on that. If some random person thinks different, hey who cares.

This was the only fight in these new ops where 16 man was harder. The rest of the fights were completely faceroll easy compared to 8 man. When the power of the masters channel started, we lost 3 dps within seconds before the healers could even react lol.

I would somewhat agree that 16 man can be easier if you look at it from a dps and healing per person perspective but having 16 people all following mechanics can be an issue.

We can clear both new ops in 8 man very fast in one night but when it comes to 16 man it almost always takes much longer.

Why 16 Man is harder to me.

-Finding 16 Competent players

-Harder to manage 16 players

-Mechanics generally wipe the raid very easily (Brontus balls and Corrupter zero concussion grenades)

-Hand holding becomes very hard compared to 8 man

-Boss damage output often not scaled realistically (28k force push on sin tanks dread guard fight)

-Disconnects and computer issues are almost a sure thing in 16M raids.

Im completely amazed this argument has carried on for like 3 pages now

Look, if you learn the fights on 8 man, progress on 8 man, gear up on 8 man, and then go back into 16 its going to seem easier, and if you gear up/progress on 16 and then drop to 8s, then the 8s are going to seem easier. Arguing about the current tier of HMs is ridiculous anyway, since theyre a joke on either mode, are tuned for like 72 gear, when everyone went in with full 75s and is now in nearly full 78s.

8s are a harder DPS check (at least in the last NiM Tier, i dont think any bosses enrage in DP/DF on either mode) and your raid composition is more important. Mechanics and coordination are more important in 16, and the tank/heal check is harder. I think some fights are more difficult on 8, and some more difficult on 16 probably.

Maybe bioware should just do what WoW is doing in WoD and make nightmare all one raid size in between the two then maybe we could all get along.

(Also im pretty sure no one has ever 6 healed anything in 16 man)

So... lets get back to topic. My guild had the same problem, but we only had 1 sorc healer (im guessing thats a no-no ). I was thinking this week - minimum 3 sorc healers, maybe 5 healers total (2 operatives along 3 sorcs).

When final phase starts ditch 1 grp, lets say 2 tanks and 2 lowest dps are in that grp. Healers heal rest, we have 5 snipers so shield is up for like almost 2 minutes, bloodthrist etc... doable ?

So... lets get back to topic. My guild had the same problem, but we only had 1 sorc healer (im guessing thats a no-no ). I was thinking this week - minimum 3 sorc healers, maybe 5 healers total (2 operatives along 3 sorcs).

 

When final phase starts ditch 1 grp, lets say 2 tanks and 2 lowest dps are in that grp. Healers heal rest, we have 5 snipers so shield is up for like almost 2 minutes, bloodthrist etc... doable ?

You shouldn't purposely lose anyone, but yes. Tanks are absolutely last priority for heals during this phase. Healers should focus on keeping the dps and themselves up.

I don't know a single 16 man nim progression guild that just uses 4 healers for nim progression. Most used 5-6 healers.

What 16m guild uses more than 4 healers for progression? I believe that none does.

For a couple of fights with low DPS and high healing requirements, having one DPS spec hybrid or full heals may be safer for progression or title runs. But 4.5- or 5-healing is the exception for 16m rather than the rule.

We downed it last week, after 10minutes of tactics talk we just one shoot it ^^

Just as a precaution we opted for 5 healers 3 scoundrels 1 sorc 1 commando. We really took our time to get the bosses right on the edge of the phase push und punched them as hard as we could. First boss hit the floor before anyone could take too much damage and we pushed further until all of them were dead.

The Point of this phase is that you have to keep everybody alive. If one person dies the damage output of the bosses (which is fixed) will get devided by 15 and not 16. So it will become harder and harder to keep the rest alive.

One trick we considerd was to keep up the tank to the very last and then he pops saber reflect... This will inflict 100k+ damage to the boss, but is quite a last resort move ...

Have fun downing it. I guess its also quite possible with 4 healers