Enlight me?

Okay. [pours gasoline and lights a match]

Burn, baby, burn!

Enlight me?

 

Okay. [pours gasoline and lights a match]

 

Burn, baby, burn!

 

lol thread winner

Enlight me?

 

Okay. [pours gasoline and lights a match]

 

Burn, baby, burn!

 

Audiodroid! Hit it!

*Audiodroid plays Disco Inferno*

Everybody, Disco!

*dances*

I disagree with you on this one Kilora. I think folks are going a little extreme on this, but I do see a pattern and it's hard to ignore. They want to make more money and that's a no brainer. Going back and editing what we get on the website is a little "silly" in my mind.

I addressed that here:

If Cathar were only available upon reaching legacy lvl 50 - they'd STILL have to change the wording of that section of the sub benefits. Why? Because just having a sub wouldn't get you Cathar.

This is the first time they've changed something on the website. They would've had to change it no matter what. The only pattern here is continuing to make everyone pay for cosmetic garbage.

Meanwhile. I love the game and feel it can be better than it is today. Having people voice concern over things is how things get changed. This post is a legit request and it does provide the appearance of "Slight of the Hand" all for the sake of making more money and providing less services to the customers with monthly fee's to BW.

I don't feel any request can be considered legitimate when they're complaining about purely cosmetic crap. I will be up in arms with everyone else if it ever moves beyond cosmetic fluff -- but it hasn't, and doesn't show any type of trend. They aren't reducing ANYTHING. They're giving you more options -- and asking that you either use you're complimentary cartel coins on it, or shill out a little more $ to help the game. People are FREE to not purchase anything here, and it will not negatively affect their gameplay.

Requests like this go beyond what can be considered reasonable. Are you upset at Coach for selling $600 purses, but charging $700 for that particular color? And another $15 if you want the special zipper? Another $100 for a different strap? Just because people stomp their feet and call the corporation greedy doesn't mean they're in the right.

Again - I thought as a SUB the whole Cathar race was going to be part of my SUB as well the Ex-Pac would have been. Both are going to cost me instead and as a montly SUB that does bother me to a certain point. Did I purchase the Ex-Pac (YES) and I love the new OP and reworked FP's as well.

This is you're fault for assuming. If I assume that the local Taco Bell is giving out free tacos because one of the Taco Bells in California is -- I'd have no right to complain and say this is a sign of things to come. Making people pay for things that they've had to pay for since they were added! How horrible! Since F2P launched, EVERYTHING that has been cosmetic has been Cartel Market. EVERYONE should've known this would include anything NEW added that was cosmetic.

I originally assumed the expac would include cathar -- but I also have no issues with them charging for cathar separately. Why?

It is cosmetic fluff. NO affect on gameplay whatsoever. Had they released the expac, and announced a new class in 2.1 that required you to pay $10? Yes, I'd be rip****. Why? Because a new class is not cosmetic.

Separately....

Am I reading your wrong TUXs, or have you gotten noticably more disgruntled since 2.0 went live? We may not always agree, but generally I find you to be objective in your statements for the most part. Lately, you just seem kind of frustrated and upset. /shrug.

Not "disgruntled", but I'm VERY disappointed in their treatment/neglect of PvP. They've allowed an easy/cheap exploit to go unfixed for weeks now.

2.0 has some good, I love Makeb, REALLY really freaking enjoy Scum and Villainy, I like the idea of closing/eliminating the gear gap in PvP, but the way they've gone about it is a complete farce. They're acting without thinking and it's leading to a cluster ****! They need to fix things RIGHT, not by eliminating elements without concern.

lol! It's the same old, same old.

Some subs think that everything new should be theirs in perpetuity. They seemingly forget why they pay a monthly fee.

And others keep hoping for the inevitable P2W disaster or the doomsday end of this game. Stormcrows searching for a storm.

Nah, everything is fine. There will be QQ over paying by a loud minority. The silent majority will continue playing and chuckling about the big ado over nothing.

Not "disgruntled", but I'm VERY disappointed in their treatment/neglect of PvP. They've allowed an easy/cheap exploit to go unfixed for weeks now.

 

2.0 has some good, I love Makeb, REALLY really freaking enjoy Scum and Villainy, I like the idea of closing/eliminating the gear gap in PvP, but the way they've gone about it is a complete farce. They're acting without thinking and it's leading to a cluster ****! They need to fix things RIGHT, not by eliminating elements without concern.

Not that it's a great excuse for "allowing" something to go unfixed --

But as a reason, it is very possible they've been working on it since it was reported. Doesn't mean they are neglecting it, nor that they are treating it poorly -- could just be a very nasty bug that is causing them bigger issues than they thought.

I'm not trying to be an apologist, and I hope you see that. But sometimes, working in a QA environment, things don't make sense. And it is worse when you have imbeciles running the show (pointing at EA) telling you to just go ahead and release it, because it "isn't that bad."

Not "disgruntled", but I'm VERY disappointed in their treatment/neglect of PvP. They've allowed an easy/cheap exploit to go unfixed for weeks now.

 

2.0 has some good, I love Makeb, REALLY really freaking enjoy Scum and Villainy, I like the idea of closing/eliminating the gear gap in PvP, but the way they've gone about it is a complete farce. They're acting without thinking and it's leading to a cluster ****! They need to fix things RIGHT, not by eliminating elements without concern.

I see. Well, I agree that some stuff in PvP has gone unfixed yet... but I can't get too worked up about it personally. PvP is always going to get initially borked when it is changed, and players are always going to exploit it. Been that way since my first days in DaOC... so I personally came to peace with it years ago.

They'll get if fixed. And it will get broken again somewhere down the line. PvP is one of the more imperfect parts of MMOs IMO.

Meanwhile.. there is some good PvP going on in the forum.

lol! It's the same old, same old.

 

Some subs think that everything new should be theirs in perpetuity. They seemingly forget why they pay a monthly fee.

 

And others keep hoping for the inevitable P2W disaster or the doomsday end of this game. Stormcrows searching for a storm.

 

Nah, everything is fine. There will be QQ over paying by a loud minority. The silent majority will continue playing and chuckling about the big ado over nothing.

Yep! I can't WAIT for 2.1 to drop. Why?

Our guild is having a "Customization Contest." Since we have so many people ranging in playstyles and levels, we will be giving out in-game credits to the top 3 "looks" in our guild. Personally, I just want to change my Gree Armor to Purple + Black -- so it'll match my fancy new purple/black lightsaber. But some people in my guild are SO excited for this -- and they don't care how much it'll cost.

Others? Are only interested in utilizing the pieces that require absolutely no RL$ to be spent. Yet -- they'll all have something special they can do.

Actually, I do remember very clearly they were originally announced as "The first species to be acquired strictly through Legacy". Obviously this changed once it went F2P.

Again though... marketing tease =/= actual product release announcement. Veterans of MMOs should know this really IMO.

It is cosmetic fluff. NO affect on gameplay whatsoever. Had they released the expac, and announced a new class in 2.1 that required you to pay $10? Yes, I'd be rip****. Why? Because a new class is not cosmetic.

I still disagree with you on most your post as I don't care about cosmetics. Yes charge the crap out of them. If people want to pay for them great.

Yes. . No biggie that Cathar are not in sub, but it should have been IMHO. Got that, don't care as well, but it's an issue worth a conversation and you have NO RIGHT telling people they can't raise that concern. Overboard hype - yes I agree it's extreme, but not uncalled for.

Finally - You managed to completely SKIP over the whole point I made about TFB. Seems like you only want to QQ on certain petty points?

Again - FOR THE RECORD.. I don't care about cosmetic fluff.

Kilora, grasping at straws maybe or BW testing the water and only they know the truth.

When they released CM Rep and they said more was coming people believed it was going to be Rep for each pack. People were upset and post. New pack came out and there was no new rep. Was it community response or wasnt planned that way. Only they know.

I voiced my concern with what Eric post.

Kilora, grasping at straws maybe or BW testing the water and only they know the truth.

 

When they released CM Rep and they said more was coming people believed it was going to be Rep for each pack. People were upset and post. New pack came out and there was no new rep. Was it community response or wasnt planned that way. Only they know.

 

I voiced my concern with what Eric post.

Actually, I believe they said that the new Rep would be for each Series of Packs. We're still on the Contraband Series. It's a new Pack, but the same series. So, we still don't know if they are going to go through with the new Rep for each Series thing, though they probably will regardless of our complaints.

Just FYI.

To say that this is "taking something away" would be like arguing that they are some how taking away the ability to play as a Cathar for free. They aren't, it's a new feature that isn't available now that will have a cost, same here.

 

Bioware has been pretty clear and obvious that anything even remotely cosmetic will almost certainly be pay going forward. They won't change WZ/OP/FP access for subscribers, to say you're overreacting is an understatement.

They won't take away from subs WZs, OPs and FPs, but a part of the game growing is social, changing your toons looks, etc... Good looking armor are worth three month cartel coins. The packages are 99% junk. Now changing your toons armor color, hair style and cosemitcs, which are features that should have been in the game to begin with being sold on the cartel market is kind of unacceptable. I do not mind changing the race or toons face and body build being cartel based, but armor color, hair style and cosemitcs I do object and strongly.

I still disagree with you on most your post as I don't care about cosmetics. Yes charge the crap out of them. If people want to pay for them great.

 

Yes. . No biggie that Cathar are not in sub, but it should have been IMHO. Got that, don't care as well, but it's an issue worth a conversation and you have NO RIGHT telling people they can't raise that concern. Overboard hype - yes I agree it's extreme, but not uncalled for.

 

Finally - You managed to completely SKIP over the whole point I made about TFB. Seems like you only want to QQ on certain petty points?

 

Again - FOR THE RECORD.. I don't care about cosmetic fluff.

You didn't make a single point about TFB.....

Just checked, and the posts I quoted you on, and was responding to, had NOTHING to do with TFB what so ever.

Or, did you edit something to try and make me look bad?

I'm saying it's a trivial concern and people are moronic for complaining about it -- especially when we don't have all the info.

But, I suppose I don't have the right to voice my opinion, because you don't like it? Pot? Kettle? Black?

In my opinion, it is uncalled for. It is EXACTLY like someone screaming at a cosmetics company for charging $10 more for a new shade of lipstick that is the exact same, except for color.

Actually, I believe they said that the new Rep would be for each Series of Packs. We're still on the Contraband Series. It's a new Pack, but the same series. So, we still don't know if they are going to go through with the new Rep for each Series thing, though they probably will regardless of our complaints.

 

Just FYI.

 

Didn't think they said series but I'll trust you. Don't care about packs didn't follow it too much.

I see. Well, I agree that some stuff in PvP has gone unfixed yet... but I can't get too worked up about it personally. PvP is always going to get initially borked when it is changed, and players are always going to exploit it. Been that way since my first days in DaOC... so I personally came to peace with it years ago.

 

They'll get if fixed. And it will get broken again somewhere down the line. PvP is one of the more imperfect parts of MMOs IMO.

 

Meanwhile.. there is some good PvP going on in the forum.

lol - the forums always have good "PvP" (or OvO [Opinion vs Opinion])

I guess the fact that they can bring the servers down, just after a patch and during the day, to remove Bolster from Ilum to prevent 20's from gaining some XP, yet they can't fix this after weeks, leads me to think that they are very capable of "quick" fixes...but it seems to only be the case when there's a bug that benefits the players. Their silence on the whole bolster/augment exploit is deafening - the PvP team should be reassigned imo as they've more than demonstrated their inability to look beyond "metrics".

I'm more than willing to give them time - but they need to show me they're making some effort to regain my faith during that time...so far, they have not.

lol - the forums always have good "PvP" (or OvO [Opinion vs Opinion])

 

I guess the fact that they can bring the servers down, just after a patch and during the day, to remove Bolster from Ilum to prevent 20's from gaining some XP, yet they can't fix this after weeks, leads me to think that they are very capable of "quick" fixes...but it seems to only be the case when there's a bug that benefits the players. Their silence on the whole bolster/augment exploit is deafening - the PvP team should be reassigned imo as they've more than demonstrated their inability to look beyond "metrics".

 

I'm more than willing to give them time - but they need to show me they're making some effort to regain my faith during that time...so far, they have not.

Tux, with 50,000 subscribers per server, I'm sure this will be fixed ASAP.

Not that it's a great excuse for "allowing" something to go unfixed --

 

But as a reason, it is very possible they've been working on it since it was reported. Doesn't mean they are neglecting it, nor that they are treating it poorly -- could just be a very nasty bug that is causing them bigger issues than they thought.

It is possible. But their decision to "fix" Expertise on EWH/WH gear by just removing it, leads me to believe that it's more that they themselves don't have a clue on how important Expertise is for OW encounters. It's just been a comedy of errors so far and the "fix", imo, is entirely too simple.

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

Charge all you like for Cat people Eric, it's the customization I feel you're screwing your subscribers on. Customization benefits you (EA) long term - yet you're charging people to do it? Penny wise, pound foolish imo. I made characters I wanted - I'm good, but you're overlooking how big this is to people.

Mr. Musco, are there any features, like hairstyles and their colors, which are not charged coins in the designer kiosk? I honestly can't name any other mmo out there which features a barber and charges for those basic cosmetic changes. Race, skin, face can be understandable.

I'd like to add that we're going to see more information about 2.1 from the fansites on Friday. Various ones should present various things.

Mr. Musco I implore you... Please, tell us if 2.1 will allow us to put our hoods down. Just this tiny detail. I can't live with this suspense and uncertainty.

Regards.

Hey everyone,

 

There is clearly some frustration around this but I believe there are also some misconceptions about Cathar and our intent for subscribers so I wanted to hopefully clarify some of that for you. One thing we have stressed before and one thing we will continue to do with the Cartel Market is to use it for customization and convenience options. Another goal we have stressed for the Cartel Market is to not use it as a method for pay to win.

 

Game Update 2.1 does introduce entirely new customization options, like the Cathar, which will require Cartel Coins in order to gain access to. Although I understand your frustration around this, we always take into consideration when pricing Cartel Market items that all subscribers receive a monthly grant of Cartel Coins. For example, if you are currently a subscriber who has a security key active on your account, you will be able to outright purchase Cathar with just one month’s worth of Cartel Coins. We also try to give you as much notice as possible around new features like this so that if it is your desire to purchase these unlocks, you will be able to do so solely through saving your monthly Cartel Coin grant.

 

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place. We would not, for example, suddenly require you to pay for an unlock to run more Flashpoints. On the flipside of this though, the intent of the Cartel Market is to continually add new and fun cosmetic and convenience features and in some circumstances, subscribers will have to pay Cartel Coins to access these as well. I just want to specifically call out that we will keep these cosmetic as we would certainly not want to place any of our players at a disadvantage for not spending money, AKA not implementing pay-to-win.

 

One thing I do want to call out for Game Update 2.1, which you will see more details on in the future (from both us and from fan sites) is that subscribers will see a substantial discount on some of the features being implemented in Game Update 2.1, such as Appearance Designer. Not only was your monthly grant kept in mind when pricing the items themselves, but overall things are far cheaper for you as a subscriber than a free-to-play or preferred status player.

 

I know that just the principle that subscribers are being charged for Cathar is causing some of your frustrations, but I hope that I could at least explain a bit about why and to help alleviate any concerns that we would ever take something away from subscribers.

 

-eric

1.) Every tiny feature added to this game should not require me to be gouged. I paid for the CE. I've paid for a subscription every single month. I've bought tons of Cartel Coins. I'm not against paying extra. Not against it at all. I just don't think changing my eye color or the color of my armor should require more money out of my pocket. Want to add a new planet? Great, I'm in. Want to add a really neat new set of gear? Awesome, I'll buy. But changing my eye color from blue to green? Changing my armor from white to grey? Come on guys. Now I'm insulted.

2.) Every tiny thing added to this game does not, repeat not need to be a wild goose chase. For instance. They added HK-51. It was a pretty neat quest. You had to jump through some hoops. You had to spend some credits. You had to group with other people. Great job! But putting some colors on the Cartel Market, some in (STUPID) Cartel Packs, some are crafted? Again. This is complete nonsense. Put a color picker there. Let me use it. IMEANREALLY...

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place.

 

-eric

Hi Eric,

I agree that nothing is being taken away but what I see as an unfortunate situation is that even though nothing existing is taken away, adding more and more features that are not free for sub users does mean that the sub covers a smaller percentage of the game features when you take the total of the game. I call it inflation or devaluation.

It is like in an economy where you don't get a pay raise for a number of years. You still get the same amount of money but in the total effect the buying power goes down. As the game develops and people pay subs there is an expectation that the sub also buys you new features that come out since you continually invest into the game.

I did read that there are discounts for subs so I will be watching how much that will be but please, the fact that nothing is taken away from the existing sub features is not a completely correct argument as I described above.

The 600 cartel coins that you mention I already get now and can spend them on packs or other features already. This means that I have more things to choose from and again can afford a smaller portion of the features.

My issue is therefore simply not that things are being taken away but that the comparative value of the sub compared to the whole of the game wil become smaller again. That is what concerns me. Look at the game and take what's available to f2p and what can only be bought with cartel coins and only then what's left is what a sub gets you. The more you add to f2p and the cartel shop, the less the value of my sub compared to the total game. I hope that this point is clear to you. That's a customer's point of view and so far you guys are looking at the nominal value but I don't think that's meeting customer's expectations from where I'm sitting.

But I will wait and see how good the features are, what's new and exciting about it and how much of a discount there will be for subs, because that is where you increase the value of the sub again. Let's hope you get this one right

What I think is a misconception is that this is setting a precedence that we are going to take things away from subscribers. I cannot stress enough that this is simply not something we ever intend to do. The features and functions that you pay for right now as a subscriber will remain in place. We would not, for example, suddenly require you to pay for an unlock to run more Flashpoints. On the flipside of this though, the intent of the Cartel Market is to continually add new and fun cosmetic and convenience features and in some circumstances, subscribers will have to pay Cartel Coins to access these as well. I just want to specifically call out that we will keep these cosmetic as we would certainly not want to place any of our players at a disadvantage for not spending money, AKA not implementing pay-to-win.

Suggestion to OP: sit down, carefully read and reread this paragraph until it sinks in.

It invalidates the entire premise of your original post.